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The Class of '18 QBs are really Only as Good as their Situations

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Yesterday's game 2nd and 10, 4th quarter at the 7:38 mark

aka Carlos Dunlap's 3rd sack  

Sam Darnold gets 4 whole seconds before the pocket collapses

there's alot of Jets fans think that writing a fancy essay about situations excuses bad Qb play

life is what happens it's not what we want to have happen 

It's true. I'd never seen a coverage sack before. 

I didn't bring any agenda in here other than to point out that you can rank the QBs from the '18 draft from top to bottom by the stability they've enjoyed the first two years. It's not an excuse for Darnold, but the "no weaponzzzz," crowd loves to dismiss that football is the ultimate team game. And simple-minded people like to find one thing or person to blame. There's plenty of blame to go around for what's going wrong with the Jets (or the Browns, or the fish, etc.), just as there's credit to spread around for teams like the Ravens and Bills this year. 

Sam has to get better, and the team has to get better. People can whine all they want about it, but Darnold & Gase are both gonna be here next season. I'm gonna hope they improve, and root for them to. I hope Gase really is good at offense, and that another year in the same system generates a big jump for Sam next year. Why? Because I really prefer that to bitching and moaning.  

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6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Didn't he hand pick that head coach?  He is on his 3rd head coach.  He got the first on fired and then campaigned to pick the 3rd over the 2nd.  Poor guy!  These problems certainly weren't of his choosing. If only they had traded for a top WR and signed him a pro-bowl RB that was averaging over 100 yards from scrimmage and almost a TD per game for his career.  

Lol, yeah, but doesn’t that speak to the instability of his situation? You’ve got a first year QB lobbying for his OC to be named head coach to a GM who’s more than happy to promote a guy to head coach who won’t be any threat to his authority, but he’ll also hand pick a new OC just to hedge his bets. 

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16 hours ago, jgb said:

Good QBs make their situations.

QBs, in general, get way too much credit, and way too much blame. In the end, they're one player in an organization. Perhaps the most important, but just one. 

Good players have a hard time shining when they're on bad teams. Crap, look at Le'V Bell. He came here being touted as one of the best players in the league, and his impact on the Jets has been next to nothing. 

To me, it's not surprising that Jackson is balling with the Ravens, Rosen has nearly washed out going from Arizona to Miami, and Darnold and Mayfield have been inconsistent (at best) on two of the league's perennially bad teams. There's a reason guys like Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon can be Super Bowl champions while Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and Warren Moon can't. Football is the ultimate team game, and the NFL is the ultimate organizational game. 

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16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Disagree. Didn't say bad QBs couldn't win SBs. Only that a good QB keeps you relevant and mostly in the hunt nearly every year. Obviously there are exceptions.

Good QBs keep you in the hunt with a good team around them. Bad teams, injuries, etc., can remove the best QBs from said hunt. The QB's a critical piece, of course, but the idea that they make their own situation is silly, IMHO. Especially when you're talking about second year players. 

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11 minutes ago, jgb said:

Again disagree look no further than a colts with manning and without. Went from perennial contender to atrocious. Granted this is an extreme example.

But if I’m given a choice: (1) elite QB/bad team and (2) great team/mediocre QB I’m taking number 1. 100 roads to a super bowl, 95 start with a great QB. Team 1 above has a better shot in coming years of winning it all IMHO.

Peyton Manning is generally considered to be one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. In his 16 year career, he managed to get to a second playoff game six times. He's credited with two post-season game-winning drives over that time. If he couldn't, "make his own situation," who can? Not Kelly, Marino, etc. 

I've never once discounted the importance of a great QB, just this supposition that said QB, "makes his own situation." You expect him to elevate it, as Manning certainly did over his career, but there are just to many other factors when it comes to the NFL. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Well if this is your metric Sam has overachieved with a crappy roster that has a ton of injuries this year

I think he's done well given his circumstances. The roster sucks, was further decimated by injuries, and I'm not sold on the coaching staff. 

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10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Look at it  this way think of the last ten QBs to win the Super Bowl. Don’t see a lot of average guys on that list.

Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles. Runners up include Goff, Newton, and Kaepernick. 

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20 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Look not to take anything away from Lamar but he has a top 3 head coach and a great roster built by years of excellence in drafting

 

 

Sam has a Mangina clone and a division 2 college roster

Lol, did you read the original post in this thread? 

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4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Exactly. Disagree on Eli btw.

Why? Was Eli creating his own situation? One of those rare greats who also led the NFL in interceptions a few seasons? If you think Eli is a great QB, then you've effectively destroyed your own argument that good QBs make their own situations (the statement that started this conversation). In a 15-year career, Eli got his team to double-digit wins exactly five times. He didn't complete over 60% of his passes until his fifth year in the league. People already done with Darnold would've dumped Eli as a rookie. 

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who are these people already done with Darnold?  Are these actual posters, or just a foil to make a point?

Because I see alot of "Darnold must improve" posts, not "Darnold must be cut" posts.

We had people in here before last year's draft calling for the Jets to take a QB in the first round. 

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Maybe we should have a poll, because "we have some posters" means very little.  Two fools calling for it does not a movement make.

Like, "Geno fans," I guess. 

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