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Scott Dierking

Rank your worst Jet offensive line units of all time

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My fandom started with the Jets in 1973, so I do not cover the full spectrum of the team.

Fortunately, throughout most of Jet history they have had good to very good offensive lines. When they drafted Namath and he had the knee problems, the quickly realized it was an absolute must to keep him upright and protected. That lasted through the mid 70's. They had All Pros in Winston Hill, Dave Herman and stalwarts like Randy Rasmussen.

Later in the 70's they added Joe Fields, Marvin Powell, Chris Ward, Dan Alexander. That core lasted until the mid 80's. 

In the late 80's they added early round picks Mike Haight, Jim Sweeney and Dave Cadigan. While they did not meet the previous achievements of previous Jet o-lines, they represented attention to the positions (2 first round picks and a second), and at least were stable.

The early 90's was when things started to slip. Sweeney was still a stalwart in the middle, but the exterior was slipping with the likes of Cadigan, Siupele Malamala, Dwayne White and Roger Duffy. Not a great unit, but I would certainly rank it higher than the current era. In a large way.

The mid 90's began to be the dark years Enter Rich Kotite in 1995 and the starting unit was Matt Willig, Roger Duffy, Cal Dixon, Carlton Haselrig and James Brown (not the running back, not the announcer). A particularly horrific unit. Kotite so quickly recognized his mistake and decided to bring in Jumbo Elliot as a prize free agent in 1996. It was just a bandaid.

In 1997, wanting to secure the "prize" qb in Neil O'Donnell, they decided to revamp the o-line to be: Elliot, Lonnie Palelei, Roger Duffy, Matt O'Dwyer and David Williams (turnstile). They had so little confidence in this group, that the barely played O'Donnell behind the line in preseason. Genius. They also had the fortune of having both Tackles injured for game one of the season, and decided the night before the game to tell Roger Duffy he was going to play Tackle. A position he had not played before. Predictably, O'Donnell was sacked 8 times in the game.

The '96-'97 crew earns a spot as least effective lines.

Enter Tuna in 1998. He immediately re-vamps the line by brining Kevin Mawae as a key free agent, drafting Jason Fabini and you have a starting unit of Elliot, Todd Burger, Mawae, Matt O'Dwyer and Fabini. Randy Thomas was brought in as a second round pick in '99.

Variations of this line continued through the Groh and Edwards lines of the early to mid 2000's. Added in were the likes of Ryan Young, Kerry Jenkins, Kareem Mckenzie, Dave Szott, Pete Kendall, et al. The units were from my opinion above league average and paved the way for Curtis Martin through those years. Herm Edwards was a run-oriented coach and recognized the need to protect their qb and rb's. Anchored by Mawae until 2004 the Jets showed a willingness to spend FA capital on high draft picks at the o-line positions.

Enter Eric Mangini in 2006 and the Jets invest 2 first round picks and insert D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold into the line-up. Those 2 anchor the line with various cast members through the 2015 season (Ferguson) and 2016 season (Mangold).

Enter the John Idzik (2013-2014) and Mike Maccagnan (2015-2019) draft era. We can only assume that they felt so blessed to ride in on the coattails of the Ferguson and Mangold triumphs that they felt that these positions were a constant gifting to the organization of the New York Jets. They were so confident in these positions that they have invested draft capital of (2013 (3) Brian Winters, (5) Oday Oboushi), (2014 (4) Dakot Dazier), (2015 (5) Jarvis Harrison), (2016 (5) Brandon Shell), (2017 Nothing), (2018 Nothing) (2019 (3) Chuma Edoga).

Hey I realize that I do not need to explain to any Jet fan here that the o-line has been ignored horribly, recently. 

But, for those that are recent Jet fans, this has not been a history of this franchise. It used to be a source of pride with the team and a strength. 

Personally, I would nominate this group as the worst unit in Jet franchise history.

@Savage69

 

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

This year, hands down.  As bad as 2007 was, it was nowhere near this bad.   

Yep

Frank Pollack can f*ck off

Rick Dennison had nearly the same group at least playing at a competent level last season. Should’ve kept him around.

Hell, Isaiah Crowell had a 215 yard rushing performance against Denver last year. Meanwhile, Bell can’t seem to eclipse 40 behind this wall of sh*t.

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Any time Bob Davis, Al Woodall or Brooks Bollinger took the field it was pretty bad.

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7 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Yep

Frank Pollack can f*ck off

Rick Dennison had nearly the same group at least playing at a competent level last season. Should’ve kept him around.

How did you get so damned ignorant? Seriously, you are astonishing, a wondrous specimen.

Jets OL was dead last last year.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2018

holy mary mother of god

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3 minutes ago, peebag said:

Any time Bob Davis, Al Woodall or Brooks Bollinger took the field it was pretty bad.

thats what i was going for...  good ol BallSlinger

sack % was 10.7  ......7 INT in 9 games

Sammy sack% year is 8.0, 10 INT in 9 games

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30 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

My fandom started with the Jets in 1973, so I do not cover the full spectrum of the team.

Fortunately, throughout most of Jet history they have had good to very good offensive lines. When they drafted Namath and he had the knee problems, the quickly realized it was an absolute must to keep him upright and protected. That lasted through the mid 70's. They had All Pros in Winston Hill, Dave Herman and stalwarts like Randy Rasmussen.

Later in the 70's they added Joe Fields, Marvin Powell, Chris Ward, Dan Alexander. That core lasted until the mid 80's. 

In the late 80's they added early round picks Mike Haight, Jim Sweeney and Dave Cadigan. While they did not meet the previous achievements of previous Jet o-lines, they represented attention to the positions (2 first round picks and a second), and at least were stable.

The early 90's was when things started to slip. Sweeney was still a stalwart in the middle, but the exterior was slipping with the likes of Cadigan, Siupele Malamala, Dwayne White and Roger Duffy. Not a great unit, but I would certainly rank it higher than the current era. In a large way.

The mid 90's began to be the dark years Enter Rich Kotite in 1995 and the starting unit was Matt Willig, Roger Duffy, Cal Dixon, Carlton Haselrig and James Brown (not the running back, not the announcer). A particularly horrific unit. Kotite so quickly recognized his mistake and decided to bring in Jumbo Elliot as a prize free agent in 1996. It was just a bandaid.

In 1997, wanting to secure the "prize" qb in Neil O'Donnell, they decided to revamp the o-line to be: Elliot, Lonnie Palelei, Roger Duffy, Matt O'Dwyer and David Williams (turnstile). They had so little confidence in this group, that the barely played O'Donnell behind the line in preseason. Genius. They also had the fortune of having both Tackles injured for game one of the season, and decided the night before the game to tell Roger Duffy he was going to play Tackle. A position he had not played before. Predictably, O'Donnell was sacked 8 times in the game.

The '96-'97 crew earns a spot as least effective lines.

Enter Tuna in 1998. He immediately re-vamps the line by brining Kevin Mawae as a key free agent, drafting Jason Fabini and you have a starting unit of Elliot, Todd Burger, Mawae, Matt O'Dwyer and Fabini. Randy Thomas was brought in as a second round pick in '99.

Variations of this line continued through the Groh and Edwards lines of the early to mid 2000's. Added in were the likes of Ryan Young, Kerry Jenkins, Kareem Mckenzie, Dave Szott, Pete Kendall, et al. The units were from my opinion above league average and paved the way for Curtis Martin through those years. Herm Edwards was a run-oriented coach and recognized the need to protect their qb and rb's. Anchored by Mawae until 2004 the Jets showed a willingness to spend FA capital on high draft picks at the o-line positions.

Enter Eric Mangini in 2006 and the Jets invest 2 first round picks and insert D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold into the line-up. Those 2 anchor the line with various cast members through the 2015 season (Ferguson) and 2016 season (Mangold).

Enter the John Idzik (2013-2014) and Mike Maccagnan (2015-2019) draft era. We can only assume that they felt so blessed to ride in on the coattails of the Ferguson and Mangold triumphs that they felt that these positions were a constant gifting to the organization of the New York Jets. They were so confident in these positions that they have invested draft capital of (2013 (3) Brian Winters, (5) Oday Oboushi), (2014 (4) Dakot Dazier), (2015 (5) Jarvis Harrison), (2016 (5) Brandon Shell), (2017 Nothing), (2018 Nothing) (2019 (3) Chuma Edoga).

Hey I realize that I do not need to explain to any Jet fan here that the o-line has been ignored horribly, recently. 

But, for those that are recent Jet fans, this has not been a history of this franchise. It used to be a source of pride with the team and a strength. 

Personally, I would nominate this group as the worst unit in Jet franchise history.

@Savage69

 

Excellent question, and timely as well...

Although the 2007 line had Mangold, Brick and Brandon Moore, it also had, unfortunately, Adrian Clarke at LG and Anthony Clement at RT. 

I don't like to be wantonly critical of *ANY* player that is special enough to make it on to an NFL roster, but the performances of Clarke and Clement at those two respective positions was so bad, it made the sum total of that unit's performance disastrous.  

Now, here is the REAL bad news...

As dangerous as it was for a QB to play behind that line, it was only two players short of being one of the best lines in the league.  Carnation instant offensive line... Just add Woody and Faneca.   The current Jets line is not quite as dangerous to play behind as every single one of the "starting back-up's" can play at a decent level for a back-up, NOT ONE OF THEM is a bona filed starter.  Yep... They need five new guys on the line.

So... 2007 was the most dangerous line due to Clarke and Clement, but the current line is the worst line in Jet history having not one bona fied starter...

A few more quick points.  In 2007, many fans were saying that Moore had to be replaced too and Brick was a bust.  Not true in either case and if you watched the games you could see Brick and Moore were doing a good job.  It was Clarke and Clement causing all the problems.  Also worth noting as for Brick.  He became one of the better pass blocking LT's in the league from 2008 on to his retirement, but he was never a good run blocker.  During the Rex years, almost all the outside running plays went via Damian Woody.  They never tried to run around Brick because they knew he wasn't a run blocker... 

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5 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

How did you get so damned ignorant? Seriously, you are astonishing, a wondrous specimen.

Jets OL was dead last last year.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2018

holy mary mother of god

Does every post you make have to include an insult? You find it impossible to disagree with someone without being disrespectful? 

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1 minute ago, freestater said:

Does every post you make have to include an insult? You find it impossible to disagree with someone without being disrespectful? 

Sayin the last rated OL in the NFL is competent is ignorant. That's just facts.

Put me on ignore. I do it all the ******* time. 

1adestitute of knowledge or educationan ignorant societyalso lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified

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yep, i think this oline has all the others pretty much beat in the race to the bottom.  as some have pointed out that the brick/mangold line only needed 2 players (moore and woody) to make it really good but 2 players out of 5 is still quite a bit.  even adding one player is quite a bit and this line has added all 5 pieces over this season.  hard to tell (at least from a fans perspective) who the keepers could be.  maybe one or two of the current group are worth keeping as starters and maybe two or three for depth.  we'll see.

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54 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

How did you get so damned ignorant? Seriously, you are astonishing, a wondrous specimen.

Jets OL was dead last last year.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2018

holy mary mother of god

You need to dial it back. If you can’t post without insulting another  poster you might need to step back a bit. Max has been very clear on not wanting this here. Please try your best. Thanks. 

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50 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified

 

7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

You need to dial it back. If you can’t post without insulting another  poster you might need to step back a bit. Max has been very clear on not wanting this here. Please try your best. Thanks. 

the above definition applies and i have added the user to my ignore list.

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1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

How did you get so damned ignorant? Seriously, you are astonishing, a wondrous specimen.

Jets OL was dead last last year.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2018

holy mary mother of god

I don’t give a damn where some analytics site ranked them

They still paved the way for 3 100 yard games for Crowell including a 219 yard performance.

Darnold also wasn’t under the sort of duress during the last half of 2018 as he has been throughout this entire season. My own two eyeballs have witnessed that.

Perhaps you should add me to your ignore list since nearly every one of my posts seems to bring your piss to a boil.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

 

the above definition applies. 

Ok. Next insult you go away. Thanks. 

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Just now, The Crusher said:

Ok. Next insult you go away. Thanks. 

So the last rated OL in the league= competent?

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1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

So the last rated OL in the league= competent?

Of course not. See, no insult. It’s not hard. 

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12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Of course not. See, no insult. It’s not hard. 

fwiw, some other thread had someone calling someone a bitch...    that flies?

image.png.3b4ca6dcf06ee4d9d9731e018e31f180.png

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16 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t give a damn where some analytics site ranked them

They still paved the way for 3 100 yard games for Crowell including a 219 yard performance.

Darnold also wasn’t under the sort of duress during the last half of 2018 as he has been throughout this entire season. My own two eyeballs have witnessed that.

Perhaps you should add me to your ignore list since nearly every one of my posts seems to bring your piss to a boil.

 

 

Also damning is the fact that our o-line fared much better in preseason, then week 1 our HC changes up the line and despite those changes looking absolutely clueless, he continues to line up guys who should be benched. I dont care about the contracts or loyalty to vets or his handpicked GM...his failure to identify the problem and adjust accordingly (without injuries forcing his hand) is indicative of his incompetence. 

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4 minutes ago, freestater said:

Also damning is the fact that our o-line fared much better in preseason, then week 1 our HC changes up the line and despite those changes looking absolutely clueless, he continues to line up guys who should be benched. I dont care about the contracts or loyalty to vets or his handpicked GM...his failure to identify the problem and adjust accordingly (without injuries forcing his hand) is indicative of his incompetence. 

Yep

I get that Kalil was getting back into game shape initially, but he should’ve been yanked after 2-3 weeks of truly incompetent play. He never progressed even a hair before he got injured.

Winters was terrible from the jump as well. And once again, the only reason he isn’t still in the starting lineup right now is because of injury.

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1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Yep

I get that Kalil was getting back into game shape initially, but he should’ve been yanked after 2-3 weeks of truly incompetent play. He never progressed even a hair before he got injured.

Winters was terrible from the jump as well. And once again, the only reason he isn’t in the starting lineup right now is because of injury.

One series with Kalil looking around for who to block, and his guy running free at Sam, should have been enough to pull him. Our young (hopefully) franchise QB is more important than Mr. Retired's feelings. 

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30 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

fwiw, some other thread had someone calling someone a bitch...    that flies?

image.png.3b4ca6dcf06ee4d9d9731e018e31f180.png

Of course not. We can’t see every post everyone makes. Nor do we want to. I cannot believe grown men have to go to the ,” well everyone else does it defense.” Should  I come back with the” if you’re friends jump off a bridge would you too?” I’m just banning you next time you attack someone. 

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Just now, Joe W. Namath said:

Any time Sam Darnold stinks the jets oline is the worstest ever.

So, you are making a case that this line is good? Please elaborate.

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I’ve had my tix for 40 years, and have been watching the Jets since 1967. This is the worst O line, game in and game out, that I’ve ever seen. And it’s not even close. They do nothing well. 

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1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

So, you are making a case that this line is good? Please elaborate.

They are not nearly as bad as people are making them out to be.  There were many plays to be had Sunday and Darnold did not make them.  He was terrible.  

 

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Just now, Joe W. Namath said:

They are not nearly as bad as people are making them out to be.  There were many plays to be had Sunday and Darnold did not make them.  He was terrible.  

 

Exactly who in this group of offensive lineman do you feel is a standout? I will give you a low denominator of Beachum. And that is shooting low.

Darnold id have a terrible game Sunday, but hed id not get much support.

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57 minutes ago, section314 said:

I’ve had my tix for 40 years, and have been watching the Jets since 1967. This is the worst O line, game in and game out, that I’ve ever seen. And it’s not even close. They do nothing well. 

Well in all fairness they hold and false start pretty well.

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9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well in all fairness they hold and false start pretty well.

I am not sure I have ever seen a holding call on a player lying on the ground before this week.

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This one for sure. They are horrible, but we just had the worst GM of all time who never cared about the OL so not shocking

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The worst line ever isn't exactly clear but the worst starting lineman ever might be Adrien Clarke

and the worst drafted linemen ever was Dave "the Knish" Yovanovitz 

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2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Any time Sam Darnold stinks the jets oline is the worstest ever.

Luke falk took double digit sacks behind the same line.

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