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RonaldJet

Sam Darnold third highest pff grade since week 10

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Darnold is great with a clean pocket.  But so are most nfl qbs.

Sam is god awful when he gets the slightest bit of pressure.  So against any good defense, we are incapable of winning games with Sam Darnold.

Can he improve on this or is he just a scared wimp that cant handle stepping up in the pocket when the heat is on?

To be continued.......

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

It could be purely because Sam rarely sets his feet and delivers, but I just don't see a guy with a big arm.  I think his arm is fine by the way, except for the fact that he's reckless with the ball at times, and to be successful in the Favre mold, you need the requisite arm.  It's also fair to say I don't see other QBs throwing deep as often as I see Sam throwing deep, because I watch more Jets, but his deep ball accuracy seems problematic to me.

I think there are concerns, I don't think fixing the Offensive line is the end-all be-all of those concerns, and I think that this idea is only a radical notion among a group of people who've already dubbed him as "flashing elite play."

It could also be because Sam rarely has a clean pocket to set his feet.  Dalton literally didnt have a single drop back with pressure the entire game, so every throw he made was a throw he could step into and put zip on it.  

Sam has to get better, I dont think there is a single person on this board who think he's perfect.  And even with an improved line, he'll still wont be perfect and will have to get better as a player.  There are some very over the top posters taking a few peoples comments way too serious and littering each thread by mocking them with saying "special" every 10 seconds but I dont think anyone on this site thinks Sam is a finished product. 

I think the rational people understand he's a 22 year old kid playing on one of the worst teams in Football, on his 2nd HC, 2nd GM and playing behind the worst OL in the NFL with average weaponz who despite all that is 4-5 as a starter, improved in every single passing category from last year and had some really good games where had some special moments. 

I know being level head and rational doesnt make for a great message board debate nor will it sway a person's thoughts on the Sam but I prefer this approach to overdramatic week to week reactionary commentary. 

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4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

All analytics do not take situational circumstance into account. 

Analytics should be used as a guide with an objective eye test attached. 

There are no perfect numbers.

69

yes there is

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I think I’ve seen enough to set my expectations of Darnold going forward.

Accuracy: excellent in the short to intermediate space. Bad deep ball accuracy.

Mobility: really good pocket awareness and throws well on the run

Arm Strength: Very good on and off platform.

Vision: senses pressure and scans the field well. Struggles with blitzes. This is the one area I think he can improve with coaching and experience. 
 

What do I expect. Philip Rivers without the deep ball accuracy.
 

The most important thing is giving Darnold a clean pocket. 

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48 minutes ago, CTM said:

This goblydygook is all fine and dandy but written by the same guy who was ready to move on from Sam in October and is now defending him. Stats dont do a 180 every month.

I thought he was broken after Miami, he proved he's not so I'm back to believing he'll be a great player in the NFL.  Forgive me for changing my opinion after more time to evaluate. 

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Here are some fun facts about the NFL and fans and this conversation:

Players have good weeks and bad weeks.  Even the very bestest sometimes arent at their bestest.

Sometimes teams dont play well, even the good ones.  Bad teams especially, play up and down Football.  It's why, they are in fact, a bad team. 

Young players are highly inconsistent.  Young players that play on horrible teams, are even more susceptible to inconsistent play. Very few, if ever, overcome that factor and end up being successful.  The thought that these other guys who are performing well would be doing what they're doing if they were playing for the Jets is laughable.  

Sometimes (and many factors go into this) the other team is just better that day.  There used to be a slogan in the NFL, any given Sunday.  Often times, when you're a bad team, the other team doesnt have to be good to get your number on any given Sunday.  The reality is, the difference between an 0-11 Bengals team and a 4-7 Jets team was slim to none.  Both are terrible. 

The eye test, is just as effective as these stupid advanced statistics.  The "advanced statistics" you love tell me things like - DVOA has Dak Prescott as the best QB in the NFL, QBbase told me Bakery Mayflower is the best QB prospect of all time, PFF tells me that Rodgers and Mahomes arent top 10 QB's in the NFL and Dwayne Haskins is better than Sam Darnold and Josh Allen.  They're cool for conversation but they're extremely flawed and ultimately stupid. 

Opinions, are like assholes.  We've all got different kinds.  It's like the people saying, "I havent seen anything elite or special from Sam Darnold" think they're speaking in fact.  Well guess what, I say that I have seen elite and special play from him.  Bias plays a factor on both sides.  You want to be right about Sam being a bust, then you havent seen anything special.  I want Sam to be good, so I have seen something special. 

Fans are irrational.  They're week to week evaluators when they mostly have no clue what they're watching.  Reality is, that's not how the NFL works.  You dont go from being a god one week, to a goat the next.  It's always somewhere in between. 

Fans are shallow.  Their minds are weak.  They point to 2 people 99% of the time; QB and HC.  Yet, in our example as Jets fans, we like to talk about how our last GM was the worst ever and we have the worst roster in the league but we also have expectations that our very young QB should overcome all of that and be producing to make advanced statistics happy because they feel validation from seeing some moronic ranking spit out by some dudes using some flawed equation that doesnt actually tell you anything you probably didnt already know. 

I understand fans need something to talk about and want to desperately be right on the interwebz but the reality here is; the team is going to go all in on Sam Darnold and rightfully so.  It's best that everyone get used to it and be excited about having the best QB prospect in the building we've ever had in my lifetime. 

So, you like Gase?

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10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The only other real-world option to Fitz that year was Geno, it was going to be one or the other.  And there were absolutely many Geno supports, they just can't face how deeply wrong they were.

Naming Fitz the starter and paying him a relatively low veteran QB salary was perfectly fine after he put up one of the best years a Jets QB ever produced, production wise (again, Jets Fans hate actual production but love guys who don't produce but get their pants twitching with hope).  The failure was not getting the deal done early, and that's on our now-fired GM.  But no, people who wanted to dump Fitz and start Geno weren't right and never will be.  So save the make believe revisionist "there were no Geno supporters" history slats, you picked the wrong QB, man up about it for once.

 

Lol. 

$10M for Fitz was plain dumb. His production was the result of Decker and Marshall completely balling out for 26 of his 31 TDs. He completed less than 60% of his throws for less than 7ypc. The receivers were great that year, Fitz was not. 

And there were other QBs out there to sign, but they didn't because they hitched their wagon to Fitz while he was a free agent, and he subsequently robbed them. Don't blame him, I would've, too. It was the Jets who were stupid. 

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Another example of an obviously poor underthrown ball......that the WR still should have caught.  Failure of both sides of the tandem.

No pressure at all, yet Sam is dancing around, happy happy feet, like Fred Astaire!

 


great example of his issue. Stay in the pocket step up and deliver the throw. Until he corrects this he will continue to be a huge bust.

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I thought he was broken after Miami, he proved he's not so I'm back to believing he'll be a great player in the NFL.  Forgive me for changing my opinion after more time to evaluate. 

I'll see you in a few weeks when hes likely back to a boogie boarding loser who will never be good.

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Just now, RonaldJet said:


great example of his issue. Stay in the pocket step up and deliver the throw. Until he corrects this he will continue to be a huge bust.

Lol did you watch the play? It was a designed roll out dumbass 

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4 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol. 

$10M for Fitz was plain dumb. His production was the result of Decker and Marshall completely balling out for 26 of his 31 TDs. He completed less than 60% of his throws for less than 7ypc. The receivers were great that year, Fitz was not. 

And there were other QBs out there to sign, but they didn't because they hitched their wagon to Fitz while he was a free agent, and he subsequently robbed them. Don't blame him, I would've, too. It was the Jets who were stupid. 

Fitz is a professional QB. Best QB I have seen here since Pennington. 

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50 minutes ago, Warfish said:

i.e. My position all along?  

Sam has elite potential.  His makes infrequent exceptional, jaw-dropping throws.  He is worth developing and building around and supporting.

No hyperbole, no "special", no "greatness", no "better than Aaaron Rodgers today", no "way better than Dak right now" hysteria.  

He's a young QB with great potential and not so great performance or consistency overall, playing for a bad team that needs improved, especially on the O-line.  

Facts.  Rational analysis.  

By the way, for trolls like Phil, when you want to strawman what I think about Sam, go ahead and quote THIS post, because THIS is how I feel about Sam, not whatever dumb poo you try to peddle.

Fan # 1 was never an idiot, for the record, just misguided. 

Such a fan was simply lacking in all forms of rational objectivity. judging the player only by the occasional flashes of good and ignoring any and all overall bad.

Forgive me if I didnt realize you actually think he has potential.  That has not been clear as you've mocked everyone calling him special by comparing him to Patrick Ramsey for 2 weeks.

I do not view a 2nd year QB with 22 starts under his belt, on his 2nd HC and 2nd GM, playing on one of the worst teams in the NFL, behind the worst line in the NFL who happens to be 4-5 and improved year over year in every single passing category at 63%, 2200, 13/10 as "overall bad."   I'd argue that when you factor in all the adversity he has to overcome on his own team, that he's been "overall good". 

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1 minute ago, Y3k said:

Lol did you watch the play? It was a designed roll out dumbass 

No need for personal attacks buddy. I’m a Darnold skeptic, but I’m still a Jets fan. Time will tell if I am right. 

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Fitzpatrick was tremendous for us that one year, no question about it.  It is silly to suggest otherwise.

He is also the perfect backup QB.  A guy that can come in and play at a high level and win you some games.  He can also be bad but that is the reason he is not a starter. 

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45 minutes ago, bitonti said:

When the best QB prospect in our lifetime (fair enough) goes out and parties hard enough to make Page 6, a couple months after getting MONO... and then goes out and lays an absolute egg vs the worst passing defense in football... it's hard to be excited

this is Darnold in a nutshell by the way... he streaky AF, his fundementals are non-existent and the ridiculously poor coaching staff is in the process of ruining whatever talent he has. 

Why would they call WR screen 3x in a row for example. Did Dowell Loggains suffer a stroke on Sunday?  or maybe they don't trust 14 to make a quick read. Some of those sacks he had like 4 or 5 seconds back there... brain dead... not quite seeing ghosts level but it was not great 

 

Every USC QB ever has been in it for the poon, btw That's like 90% of the reason why anyone goes to USC.  Which is fine if you're Joe Willy, Sam Darnold is 8-14 as a starter he's not a professional at this point which is why it's hard to get excited 

A 22 year old QB playing on one of the worst teams in Football is streaky AF????

Inconceivable!!!!

 

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17 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Darnold is great with a clean pocket.  But so are most nfl qbs.

Sam is god awful when he gets the slightest bit of pressure.  So against any good defense, we are incapable of winning games with Sam Darnold.

Can he improve on this or is he just a scared wimp that cant handle stepping up in the pocket when the heat is on?

To be continued.......

I completely disagree with “Sam is god awful when he gets the slightest bit of pressure.”  If anything, it seems like he’s at his best when on the run.  I’ve seen him complete passes to WRs crossing the middle while Giants defenders are draped on him.  I’ve seen him scramble and find Herndon (last year) down the sideline and Crowder (this year) getting open in an intermediate zone.  Where Sam crumbles is when he tries to make too much happen in a game or situation where the Jets need magic to win.  While other QBs can throw the ball away or punt knowing they’ll get another chance, the Jets have had way too many situations where Sam can’t simply “cut his losses” and I think he feels the need to make something out of nothing because who knows if we’ll be down by 14+ when he gets the ball back.

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19 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

 

Damn!  Anderson has had some crucial drops! 

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8 minutes ago, CTM said:

I'll see you in a few weeks when hes likely back to a boogie boarding loser who will never be good.

Not uh! 

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19 minutes ago, Y3k said:

Lol did you watch the play? It was a designed roll out dumbass 

Calm down nico.

remember what happened last month when you kept calling people things like “dumbass”?

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31 minutes ago, JiF said:

A 22 year old QB playing on one of the worst teams in Football is streaky AF????

Inconceivable!!!!

 

It’s kind of hard to pin you down on this kid. By feeling strongly both ways, you’ve positioned yourself so that no matter how his career plays out, you were correct.

Or wrong, depending on the week you’re quoted.

Which when you think about it, is pretty impressive. Nice job.

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14 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Calm down nico.

remember what happened last month when you kept calling people things like “dumbass”?

somewhere someone said something about uneven application of the "letter of the law" re: insults/attacks....

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39 minutes ago, JiF said:

comparing him to Patrick Ramsey for 2 weeks

stat lines are pretty similar, tbf

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Good news is, slowly, very slowly the Jets are getting to a better screen passing team. 

This should start to take some of the pressure off. They have to be the worst screen design team in the NFL for the last 15 years

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47 minutes ago, slats said:

completely balling out for 26 of his 31 TDs.

most of deckers were clean slants.

a bunch of marhsalls were back shoulder throws whcih simply requires a big WR and a QB to have the timing down...

dont forget marshall dropped what shoulda been a TD vs Pats that mighta gotten us a W in Foxboro.

I posted a reel of all his TDs yesterday. I'll do it again..."completely balling out"? Thats serious exagerration.

 

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43 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I completely disagree with “Sam is god awful when he gets the slightest bit of pressure.”  If anything, it seems like he’s at his best when on the run.  I’ve seen him complete passes to WRs crossing the middle while Giants defenders are draped on him.  I’ve seen him scramble and find Herndon (last year) down the sideline and Crowder (this year) getting open in an intermediate zone.  Where Sam crumbles is when he tries to make too much happen in a game or situation where the Jets need magic to win.  While other QBs can throw the ball away or punt knowing they’ll get another chance, the Jets have had way too many situations where Sam can’t simply “cut his losses” and I think he feels the need to make something out of nothing because who knows if we’ll be down by 14+ when he gets the ball back.

I agree.  When he scrambles out and gets away from the pressure, he is good.  When he is confined in the pocket and there is pressure, he is god awful.

One of the great aspects of dan marino was his ability to manipulate the pocket.  To slide up, down, left, right....   Avoid the pressure and make the throw.  Sam has 0 capability to do that at this point.  He panics and cant handle it.

Thats what seeing ghosts is all about.  He feels the pressure but instead of moving to spots in the pocket to make the throw, he literally thinks players are there that arent.  

He cant play unless there is a totally clean pocket, or he gets out and makes throws on the run.

What makes an aaron rodgers, a brady etc is there ability to stay in the pocket when there is pressure, Slide to the right spot to give you that extra half second and make the throw.  Sam is awful at that.

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57 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I completely disagree with “Sam is god awful when he gets the slightest bit of pressure.”  If anything, it seems like he’s at his best when on the run.  I’ve seen him complete passes to WRs crossing the middle while Giants defenders are draped on him.  I’ve seen him scramble and find Herndon (last year) down the sideline and Crowder (this year) getting open in an intermediate zone.  Where Sam crumbles is when he tries to make too much happen in a game or situation where the Jets need magic to win.  While other QBs can throw the ball away or punt knowing they’ll get another chance, the Jets have had way too many situations where Sam can’t simply “cut his losses” and I think he feels the need to make something out of nothing because who knows if we’ll be down by 14+ when he gets the ball back.

 

13 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I agree.  When he scrambles out and gets away from the pressure, he is good.  When he is confined in the pocket and there is pressure, he is god awful.

One of the great aspects of dan marino was his ability to manipulate the pocket.  To slide up, down, left, right....   Avoid the pressure and make the throw.  Sam has 0 capability to do that at this point.  He panics and cant handle it.

It’s funny how we can all see things differently at times.

i think protecting the ball (learning to throw it away), is one of the few things he’s getting better at.

in fact, I think he overdoes it at times, but that’s probably me being a guy who likes/wants a QB who makes mistakes of aggression, overconfidence, whatever you want to call it over one who is tentative.

I think this is something that Gase has drummed into Sam’s head. I think it’s also a reason the game plans feature so many more screens and short passes. The HC is trying to build his confidence.

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15 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

It’s kind of hard to pin you down on this kid. By feeling strongly both ways, you’ve positioned yourself so that no matter how his career plays out, you were correct.

Or wrong, depending on the week you’re quoted.

Which when you think about it, is pretty impressive. Nice job.

I'm flattered by your desire to pin me down....on the subject, that is ;-) but I really dont care about being wrong or right.

I think it's pretty clear that I'm a pro Darnold guy and I'm optimistic about his future.  I've only strayed from that for one week of his career, when I thought he was broken after Miami.  The scene of him not trying for the bad snap in the endzone and immediately yelling at his OL made me very nervous about if he had a set of balls to succeed.  But even then, I maintained that I think he's a long term starter in the league and just not sure if he has the killer the instinct to be elite.  Since then, he's answered the call and been good to great, so I'm once again firmly in the pro Darnold camp.

You want the real and I know this is shocking for the know it all interwebz people but ready for it???? The truth is, I dont know how good Sam will be and if he'll ever reach elite status.  And guess what, nobody on this site knows.  He's in a pretty impossible situation to be successful and it's extremely hard to make heads or tails of it.  And those that think they have it figured out, dont. 

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24 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

stat lines are pretty similar, tbf

Great!  Who cares?  lol  It means absolutely nothing.  His numbers are better than Drew Brees in his 1st two seasons, so should we be excited about that the way we're supposed to upset that his stats compare to Patrick Ramsey?

 

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10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Great!  Who cares?  lol  It means absolutely nothing.  His numbers are better than Drew Brees in his 1st two seasons, so should we be excited about that the way we're supposed to upset that his stats compare to Patrick Ramsey?

 

it more an interesting similarity, from my POV.  and your pt about Brees is a good one. 

but to be more specific..  it seems a segment of Jet fans, myself included, are harrassed by the koolaid contingent that everything is fine at the QB position. Sure, he has looked excellent a few times. But he has also looked like crap a buncha times. So its a mixed bag. Dude has much improving just to get where McClown was in 2017 and where Fitz is today...   the middle of the pack. And then another step to top tier. Adn yes, we need a better OL for any of those steps to be possible. Thr first step I think is probable, the 2nd I am uncertain about.

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13 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

it more an interesting similarity, from my POV.  and your pt about Brees is a good one. 

but to be more specific..  it seems a segment of Jet fans, myself included, are harrassed by the koolaid contingent that everything is fine at the QB position. Sure, he has looked excellent a few times. But he has also looked like crap a buncha times. So its a mixed bag. Dude has much improving just to get where McClown was in 2017 and where Fitz is today...   the middle of the pack. And then another step to top tier. Adn yes, we need a better OL for any of those steps to be possible. Thr first step I think is probable, the 2nd I am uncertain about.

As I said earlier in the thread, I dont know how good Darnold can be and nobody does...but what I do know is it's really hard to make that determination this season with this pathetic of a team.  Build around him properly and let's see what he's got.  Again, he's currently 4-5 as a starter this season improving statistically from last year all the while playing on one of the worst teams in Football.  He's nowhere near as bad as the doubters make him out to be, just as he's nowhere near as good as the koolaid contingent makes him out to be. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm flattered by your desire to pin me down....on the subject, that is ;-) but I really dont care about being wrong or right.

I think it's pretty clear that I'm a pro Darnold guy and I'm optimistic about his future.  I've only strayed from that for one week of his career, when I thought he was broken after Miami.  The scene of him not trying for the bad snap in the endzone and immediately yelling at his OL made me very nervous about if he had a set of balls to succeed.  But even then, I maintained that I think he's a long term starter in the league and just not sure if he has the killer the instinct to be elite.  Since then, he's answered the call and been good to great, so I'm once again firmly in the pro Darnold camp.

You want the real and I know this is shocking for the know it all interwebz people but ready for it???? The truth is, I dont know how good Sam will be and if he'll ever reach elite status.  And guess what, nobody on this site knows.  He's in a pretty impossible situation to be successful and it's extremely hard to make heads or tails of it.  And those that think they have it figured out, dont. 

I agree we don’t know how this will turn out, how could we?

I think the only issue here is the fact there seems to be two factions here. One side, call them the pro Darnold’s if you like, have a group among them who like to throw around words like “certain” “elite” and “special” when talking about him. They’ve done it since day one.

Then you have the “anti’s” which I don’t think is an accurate label, but is the one the pros use to refer to anyone who tries to temper their views, or refuse to give him an excuse for every mistake he makes. Does that mean the “antis” are rooting against the kid? I don’t think so, but in the eyes of the “pros” who feel like it’s harping on, or hating Darnold, it is.

This whole topic of Darnold’s development has now evolved into a sort of Jet fandom litmus test. If you believe he’s going to be top 5 QB you’re a fan. If you don’t you obviously don’t like Sam and the Jets.

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16 minutes ago, JiF said:

Build around him properly and let's see what he's got. 

fair dinkum

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6 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I'm crossing my fingers Darnold is the next great NFL quarterback to come out of USC. 

Rodney Pete 1998-2004

Carson Palmer 2004-2017

Sam Darnold 2018-Present

 

@14 in Green

Don’t forget Haden, Marinovich and Leinart.

somewhere out there @HelenOfTroy is cursing us right now, lol.

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Another "crying about Sam" thread that defies any logic that no one would even bother to respond to?

Yes, so why am I entering some opinionated nonsense that has no right to even be considered thought provoking? Well, I'm just lowering myself to the OP here to just say that :

"Sam IS OUR FREAKIN' QB for the LONG HAUL  - LIVE WITH IT!!!"

Sorry that I am unable to pass out crying towels - sh&t happens.

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