Will We Ever See Adams Again In A Jet Uniform???

[LIJetsFan]

23 hours ago, genot said:

Lets tank for a trade down, and keep Adams. How about that. A top 5 pick in this years draft, we'll be able to get back multiple picks.

With our remaining schedule and looking at our IR I don't think tanking is a choice. (unless you're only referring to the fish)  

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

You pay the following

1. Franchise QB (proven production and proven durability)

2. LT (proven production and proven durability)

3. CB (proven ability to play man at elite level and proven durability)

4. Edge Rusher (proven production and proven durability)

5, Any player at any position that is a game changer and has proven durability (Adams)

 The rest get market rate (median money for the position) or they don't get signed.  Any player asking for more money while still under contract can get their contract rate or sit out for the remainder of their contract if they are not happy.  If they outperform their contract, we can talk about it when they are up for renewal.  And you NEVER pay anyone top dollar unless they fit into one of the five categories above. 

Here's where I'll say, "Game Changer is a bit of a stretch for a guy who's career includes 13-wins in 3 seasons and two INTs. " Then, you'll say, "well, he can't do it himself."  And, I'll say, "Exactly."

Jamal Adams is not a "Game Changer," despite having changed a couple of games (mostly against bottom of the league teams).

[Jetsfan80]

31 minutes ago, jgb said:

Many jets fans remind me of some of those dynasty fantasy players that are so fixated on building for the future they never have a good team in the present.

We don't have a good team whether we have Jamal or not.  Moving on from Jamal isn't going to be the reason we suck in the future, and he's not really part of the solution moving forward.

I don't understand the outcry.  Have you guys been paying attention to the Offensive Line at all?

[Jetsfan80]

30 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Trading Adams has nothing to do with Adams. The formula to win in the NFL is simple:

1. Have a top quarterback 

2. protect the quarterback 

3. disrupt their quarterback 

right now we have 1/3... trading adams would help us with #2

You know its a bad day for the Jamal fanboys when Nico comes off as a voice of reason in this debate on the trade Jamal side of the argument.  

[Fantasy Island]

CJ Measly was a mistake.  Bell was a mistake because we have no OL.  The man who got these guys is gone.

Get OL help, replace Gase and get back on track.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Fantasy Island said:

CJ Measly was a mistake.  Bell was a mistake because we have no OL.  The man who got these guys is gone.

Exactly.  And re-signing Jamal just because we have so little talent (because of Macc) would only compound those past mistakes, and give me little reason for hope that Douglas knows what he's doing.  

[ZachEY]

28 minutes ago, jgb said:

Many jets fans remind me of some of those dynasty fantasy players that are so fixated on building for the future they never have a good team in the present.

I mean, I hear what you're saying here, but I don't think it's fair to look at in a vacuum.  At least a large percentage of the people who want to trade Adams didn't want to draft him in the 1st place.  Their team would include Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahommes, the #6 pick in the 2018 NFL draft, two 2018 second round picks, and a 2019 second round pick, on top of what we already had.  I feel pretty confident I could have a good team today with all of that.

[Jetsfan80]

Oh look, @Bomberjet's feelings are hurt.  Here come all the neg reps!

[Bomberjet]

All I'll say to this nonsense about acquiring  a sh*t load of draft picks is if anyone had the smarts to watch the game against the hopeless Bengals, it was the coach that lost the game for us not the players - you had to be hiding under a rock not to notice all the experts - press/radio/ commentators about how the Jets did not take advantage of the Bengals run defense. The obnoxious term of 'Offensive Guru' has been repeated over and over ---

You can cry all about 'lack of talent'  or not having the right tools but using a sledge hammer against a 2 inch thick plate steel wall instead of a cutting torch is what Gase was trying to pull here. It's all on him.

[THE BARON]

15 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Here's where I'll say, "Game Changer is a bit of a stretch for a guy who's career includes 13-wins in 3 seasons and two INTs. " Then, you'll say, "well, he can't do it himself."  And, I'll say, "Exactly."

Jamal Adams is not a "Game Changer," despite having changed a couple of games (mostly against bottom of the league teams).

Ug... I am not suggesting you pay a top SS the same money you pay a top QB, LT, CB, EDGE

If you have a top SS that is as dynamic as Adams, you pay him as you would pay a top SS.  When his rookie contract is done, give an offer of what amounts to an average of the moneys paid to the top five SS's in the league.  If he is not agreeable, he can sign elsewhere. 

If you think you can get value for him now as a trade, it better be a number one draft pick or a two and a three.  You cant give away a player with proven elite abilities

[Bomberjet]

18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We don't have a good team whether we have Jamal or not.  Moving on from Jamal isn't going to be the reason we suck in the future, and he's not really part of the solution moving forward.

I don't understand the outcry.  Have you guys been paying attention to the Offensive Line at all?

You're such a genius , lol - so we weaken one of our  strengths - a sure thing for more picks to take gambles on players we're  not even sure that will even make the squad?

Sure lets get rid of all our leaders and excellent players to try to patch up another area - then we'll just cry the blues as to why the defense is in such a mess. 

What team are we to model from that pulls these type of maneuver? Oh, let me guess, the Dallas Cowboys on that Hershel Walker deal? Not going to happen in this day age, The Vikings never recovered from that deal. I don't think Douglas is going to give Adams away either. Not if the owner has a say in it, so everyone here making noise about a deal better be more realistic. Jets are not going to unload him for 1, and 2nd rounder, IMO.....

 

 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Wow, you are way younger than I thought. Put in a tape of Lawrence Taylor some time and tell me if you still feel the same way.?

Totally agree with this. You might want to watch Reggie White and Joe Montana as well. 

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

If you have a top SS that is as dynamic as Adams, you pay him as you would pay a top SS.  When his rookie contract is done, give an offer of what amounts to an average of the moneys paid to the top five SS's in the league.  If he is not agreeable, he can sign elsewhere. 

The top Safeties in the league make $14M or more per season and there's a 100 % chance Jamal will want to eclipse that.  I'm not willing to pay him anything close to that much if I'm in Douglas' shoes.  

 

Player	Team	Age	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Fully Guaranteed	Free Agency
Kevin Byard	Titans	26	$70,500,000	$14,100,000	$30,825,000	$19,625,000	2025 UFA
Tyrann Mathieu	Chiefs	27	$42,000,000	$14,000,000	$26,800,000	$26,800,000	2022 UFA
Landon Collins	Redskins	25	$84,000,000	$14,000,000	$44,500,000	$31,000,000	2025 UFA
Earl Thomas	Ravens	30	$55,000,000	$13,750,000	$32,000,000	$32,000,000	2023 UFA

[ZachEY]

12 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Ug... I am not suggesting you pay a top SS the same money you pay a top QB, LT, CB, EDGE

If you have a top SS that is as dynamic as Adams, you pay him as you would pay a top SS.  When his rookie contract is done, give an offer of what amounts to an average of the moneys paid to the top five SS's in the league.  If he is not agreeable, he can sign elsewhere. 

 If you think you can get value for him now as a trade, it better be a number one draft pick or a two and a three.  You cant give away a player with proven elite abilities

Adam's 5M per already puts him close to the top 5 SSs in the NFL.

Landon Collins is the top, making 14M.

What, so far, in what you've seen from Jamal Adams makes you think he'd take less than that?

No one is saying give him away, but if you can get a 1, it's better to take that then think he's going to play for Patrick Chueng SS money, and ultimately get nothing.

[ZachEY]

23 minutes ago, Bomberjet said:

All I'll say to this nonsense about acquiring  a sh*t load of draft picks is if anyone had the smarts to watch the game against the hopeless Bengals, it was the coach that lost the game for us not the players - you had to be hiding under a rock not to notice all the experts - press/radio/ commentators about how the Jets did not take advantage of the Bengals run defense. The obnoxious term of 'Offensive Guru' has been repeated over and over ---

 You can cry all about 'lack of talent'  or not having the right tools but using a sledge hammer against a 2 inch thick plate steel wall instead of a cutting torch is what Gase was trying to pull here. It's all on him.

Indeed, we should have easily exploited their not very good run defense with our - checks notes - bottom three rush offense.

The thing about run defenses, even the bad teams, ranking wise, aren't actually all that bad at it.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The top Safeties in the league make $14M or more per season and there's a 100 % chance Jamal will want to eclipse that.  I'm not willing to pay him anything close to that much if I'm in Douglas' shoes.  

 

Player	Team	Age	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Fully Guaranteed	Free Agency
Kevin Byard	Titans	26	$70,500,000	$14,100,000	$30,825,000	$19,625,000	2025 UFA
Tyrann Mathieu	Chiefs	27	$42,000,000	$14,000,000	$26,800,000	$26,800,000	2022 UFA
Landon Collins	Redskins	25	$84,000,000	$14,000,000	$44,500,000	$31,000,000	2025 UFA
Earl Thomas	Ravens	30	$55,000,000	$13,750,000	$32,000,000	$32,000,000	2023 UFA

Of that list, only Landon Collins is a strong safety.

And, the team that paid a strong safety an 84M (14M/year) contract - well, look at that - they've got 3 wins, and are one of only 4 teams beaten by the NY Jets.

[THE BARON]

9 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Adam's 5M per already puts him close to the top 5 SSs in the NFL.

Landon Collins is the top, making 14M.

What, so far, in what you've seen from Jamal Adams makes you think he'd take less than that?

No one is saying give him away, but if you can get a 1, it's better to take that then think he's going to play for Patrick Chueng SS money, and ultimately get nothing.

I would rather have proven players in trade.  First rounders just scare me.  They are valuable on paper.  

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Fantasy Island said:

CJ Measly was a mistake.  Bell was a mistake because we have no OL.  The man who got these guys is gone.

Get OL help, replace Gase and get back on track.

I knew it was dubious signing Bell to run with the WORST run-blocking OL in the NFL in front of him (they also give Darnold the LEAST amount of time to throw than any QB in the league, but he is supposed to win EVERY game according to some, but that's a story for another day)...but I thought at the very least he'd be a security blanket for Darnold and would be sent out on pass routes if there was no holes for him to run through (which has been the case, oh, 98% of the time), since Bell is actually the BEST WR the Jets have (sad)...but alas that has not happened basically at all.

Bell and Moseley...the typical Maccagnan "$100Mill Flush".  I wonder if say Maccagnan touches a household appliance if it instantly turns to sh*t too?  I'll bet it does hahaha.  Imagine that?

[ZachEY]

33 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I would rather have proven players in trade.  First rounders just scare me.  They are valuable on paper.  

They are valuable on more than just paper.  They are far less expensive, too.  Good teams draft well, find a QB, and draft well.  They don't overpay veterans.

[THE BARON]

8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

They are valuable on more than just paper.  They are far less expensive, too.  Good teams draft well, find a QB, and draft well.  They don't overpay veterans.

Allow me to rephrase... For the Jets, first rounders have been valuable on paper... 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I mean, I hear what you're saying here, but I don't think it's fair to look at in a vacuum.  At least a large percentage of the people who want to trade Adams didn't want to draft him in the 1st place.  Their team would include Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahommes, the #6 pick in the 2018 NFL draft, two 2018 second round picks, and a 2019 second round pick, on top of what we already had.  I feel pretty confident I could have a good team today with all of that.

I also didn’t want Adams. Wanted Watson. However there are no time machines in our present. Can only make the right choice for today.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We don't have a good team whether we have Jamal or not.  Moving on from Jamal isn't going to be the reason we suck in the future, and he's not really part of the solution moving forward.

I don't understand the outcry.  Have you guys been paying attention to the Offensive Line at all?

Not part of any outcry. Just think we have two players considered “elite” by the analyst community (Adams and Bell). Not sure trading them is the right move. This team has sucked the donkey in drafts for my entire life. JD is new, fine. But most first time GMs fail. Bird in hand.

If we are trading anyone for picks it should be Bell. He is wasted without a competent OL anyway.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Agreed.  But, I think there's a good chance he holds out.  I wouldn't necessarily blame him either.  I think this offseason is when you'd get the most re: value for him.  Though, I'm not sure we'll recreate the rumored 1 and 3 from Dallas.

He might but if JD comes as advertised, he will wave his magic wand and this team will be good in two years. Everyone loves to play for a winner.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You know its a bad day for the Jamal fanboys when Nico comes off as a voice of reason in this debate on the trade Jamal side of the argument.  

I just don’t trust any GM until he is a proven winner. Trading our best player (that’s the analyst consensus, at least) for lotto tickets? Can’t endorse until I get a sense of who is picking the numbers.

[T0mShane]

You don’t go out and pay Joe Douglas, Rex Hogan, Phil Savage, etc and then be too afraid of what they’d do with another first round draft pick to trade your strong safety. 

[genot]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

With our remaining schedule and looking at our IR I don't think tanking is a choice. (unless you're only referring to the fish)  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You don’t go out and pay Joe Douglas, Rex Hogan, Phil Savage, etc and then be too afraid of what they’d do with another first round draft pick to trade your strong safety. 

Any other owner and I would agree

[T0mShane]

Just now, jgb said:

Any other owner and I would agree

The owner sucks, but he’s not telling these guys who to draft

[ZachEY]

54 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Allow me to rephrase... For the Jets, first rounders have been valuable on paper... 

By this logic, we shouldn't draft anyone or sign any free agents either.  Probably should fold the organization.

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The owner sucks, but he’s not telling these guys who to draft

Ahhhh an optimist in our midst

[ZachEY]

23 minutes ago, jgb said:

 He might but if JD comes as advertised, he will wave his magic wand and this team will be good in two years. Everyone loves to play for a winner.

Sure, but in 2 years then you're talking about Landon Collins money.  And, if you don't want to worry about the actual money, can we agree that Landon Collins % of the salary cap for this type of player is problematic?

[THE BARON]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

By this logic, we shouldn't draft anyone or sign any free agents either.  Probably should fold the organization.

That might just be the best idea I've heard yet...

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

I would rather have proven players in trade.  First rounders just scare me.  They are valuable on paper.  

While this is a valid point the proven players we have are in positions that do not help you win in this league, as evidenced by our paltry win totals the last three or four years.

Still in this day of the NFL protecting the QB and rushing the QB out weight almost all else.  McCaganan never figured this out.  If you have a chance for a major team reset (like this team needs) you have some balls, take a chance and get resources to reset.

Mike mccagnans draft philosophy was to take the safe player and look where that has got us.

[HessStation]

2 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

CJ Measly was a mistake.  Bell was a mistake because we have no OL.  The man who got these guys is gone.

Get OL help, replace Gase and get back on track.

I don’t think Mosley was a mistake, he got hurt it happens...but Bell was....however I understand wanting to try and give Darnold a safety valve....however the negligence on the OL was reprehensible and made/makes Maccagnan look as incompetent as he was/is.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Sure, but in 2 years then you're talking about Landon Collins money.  And, if you don't want to worry about the actual money, can we agree that Landon Collins % of the salary cap for this type of player is problematic?

It is possible that you need to pay good money to have good players