Will We Ever See Adams Again In A Jet Uniform???

[HessStation]

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You don’t go out and pay Joe Douglas, Rex Hogan, Phil Savage, etc and then be too afraid of what they’d do with another first round draft pick to trade your strong safety. 

I don’t consider it as much of a slam dunk call but if they can get a 1st and 3rd given the state of the team you have to do it I guess. I would do it but a bit begrudgingly 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

It is possible that you need to pay good money to have good players 

 

You do, but if you pay the wrong good players, you create more problems then you solve, just like the team who paid Landon Collins.

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Not part of any outcry. Just think we have two players considered “elite” by the analyst community (Adams and Bell). Not sure trading them is the right move. This team has sucked the donkey in drafts for my entire life. JD is new, fine. But most first time GMs fail. Bird in hand.

If we are trading anyone for picks it should be Bell. He is wasted without a competent OL anyway.

Good point about trading Bell, and I was all in on getting him from the start of last season.

At this point, this team is so bad I’d be okay if we just blew it up and traded anyone we could. Mosely, Bell, QW, Adams... just get back at least a one and/or a couple of twos depending on the player.

The only hope this team has is that Douglas knows what he’s doing. Get him all the picks we can. Ifhe turns out to be clueless or even mediocre, we’re totally screwed for another 5 years anyway, what’s the difference?

If it we’re up to me, I’d say trade Darnold also, but I won’t go there because so many of you think he’s Aaron Rodgers, blah blah. The reason I would though is we’re not fixing the OL and getting elite WRs over night, and Darnold has been threading water here the last two years. 

You can go with whatever reason you want to explain that. Lack of talent around him, him not being that great... it doesn’t matter. The needle hasn’t moved for this team since he’s arrived. We still stink as much as we did before.

To quote a famous Jet fan/philosopher, “oh, the pain”....

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

27 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Sure, but in 2 years then you're talking about Landon Collins money.  And, if you don't want to worry about the actual money, can we agree that Landon Collins % of the salary cap for this type of player is problematic?

Adams stock will NEVER be Higher than it is now. 

He is a Luxury on a team with very few professional football players on it.  If you can turn Adams into 3 solid pros with at least 2 on the Offensive side of the ball that will Up Darnold's game.....you do it...in a second.  Darnold has spent the ENTIRE first 2 years of his career running for his life. Think about that.  How can you even come close to properly evaluating him under these current conditions?  This "running for his life" must CEASE, as soon as possible, and you do that by getting real pro football players on this roster.

I'm the biggest Darnold fan there is but I won't know if it's correct to pay Darnold a massive 2nd contract if he can't deliver a SB (I KNOW it's a terrible error on Dallas' part if they foolishly sign Prescott for big money, not even for what he is demanding, because they have as much chance of winning a SB with Prescott as they do with Garrett as Coach.  I say it's foolish because you can at least get a good understanding how Prescott projects because of the totally stacked Offense that surrounds him....Darnold, 2 years in, is STILL basically on the field ALL BY HIMSELF. That can't continue.

Safety's are NOT worth the kind of money he will be demanding.  It only makes sense to pay him if he will be the last piece of a Championship team puzzle....and the Jets are Far from that point.

[ChuckkieB]

As much as I think the offense should be priority #1 this offseason, I agree with others here who state that cashing in Adams for a few lottery tickets in the draft might not be the best move.   I think the offense can be addressed enough without having to trade Adams.  

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

15 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Good point about trading Bell, and I was all in on getting him from the start of last season.

At this point, this team is so bad I’d be okay if we just blew it up and traded anyone we could. Mosely, Bell, QW, Adams... just get back at least a one and/or a couple of twos depending on the player.

The only hope this team has is that Douglas knows what he’s doing. Get him all the picks we can. Ifhe turns out to be clueless or even mediocre, we’re totally screwed for another 5 years anyway, what’s the difference?

If it we’re up to me, I’d say trade Darnold also, but I won’t go there because so many of you think he’s Aaron Rodgers, blah blah. The reason I would though is we’re not fixing the OL and getting elite WRs over night, and Darnold has been threading water here the last two years. 

You can go with whatever reason you want to explain that. Lack of talent around him, him not being that great... it doesn’t matter. The needle hasn’t moved for this team since he’s arrived. We still stink as much as we did before.

To quote a famous Jet fan/philosopher, “oh, the pain”....

Darnold is basically 5-4 this year (the Buff game is won by 99% of teams).  His wins have come against awful teams and Dallas and the Raiders (mediocre ones).  Can we agree to throw out all 3 "Luke Falk games"?

As alluding to the Buffalo game.  The same case can be made for last year...Houston, Green Bay, Cleveland, Miami....ALL games given away by a terrible coach's Defense, Houston and Green Bay, Darnold handed Bowles' D the Lead and asked them to protect it in the final drive which would have secured the Win....you can't put that on Darnold, can you?....if the Jets had a real HC last year they could have well been 8-8 last year....even with a team, that I agree with you, needs to be blown up, for the most part.

You get Darnold protection, sprinkle in maybe just a little run blocking, is that too much to ask?  Enough so he can at least sell play-action just Once (hasn't been able to close to 2 years, just a fu*kin disgrace)......I think under those conditions the Jets definitely compete for a Wildcard next year.  I expected them to compete this year but never envisioned the OL even being WORSE than it was in Darnold's 1st year.....Aaron Rodgers couldn't put up a winning record playing for the 2019 Jets.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, THE BARON said:

I would rather have proven players in trade.  First rounders just scare me.  They are valuable on paper.  

First rounders are far more valuable than a lot of proven players out there.  Why?  Because rookie deals are cheap, you're getting a young player, and the upside tends to be higher than the "proven player" you're getting or giving up.  

We tend to devalue draft picks as Jets fans because we're used to our GM sucking at making picks.  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

I just don’t trust any GM until he is a proven winner. Trading our best player (that’s the analyst consensus, at least) for lotto tickets? Can’t endorse until I get a sense of who is picking the numbers.

What has our "analyst consensus" best player actually done for us?

Our record while he's been here being our "best player" is 5-11, 4-12 and 4-8 (so far).

Not terribly good, is it.  Maybe having a Safety, a luxury position in the NFL, as your "best player" isn't the way to build a competitive team?

I'd trade Adams for one solid O-Lineman.  Not a Pro-Bowler, not an "elite" player, just a good, solid, reliable O-lineman for 5-10 years.  We'd be better with that O-linemen than we'd ever be with Adams, because Safeties don't win football games, O-linemen protecting Franchise QB's do.

I'm open to finally trying to build this team a different way.  If our "draft Defense with #1 almost every draft for two decades" concept hasn;t worked, I'm 100% ok with trying to draft some Offense for a while instead.  

Adams is the perfect SOJ "elite" player.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Not part of any outcry. Just think we have two players considered “elite” by the analyst community (Adams and Bell). Not sure trading them is the right move. This team has sucked the donkey in drafts for my entire life. JD is new, fine. But most first time GMs fail. Bird in hand.

If we are trading anyone for picks it should be Bell. He is wasted without a competent OL anyway.

 

Trading Bell makes little sense because I don't think we'd get much for him.  He didn't have many teams competing for his services last offseason.  Now that he's 1 year older and is having a poor season, his value is only dropping.  

Adams is a very different situation.  We know there were multiple teams (Cowboys, Ravens) willing to give up a juicy package of picks at the deadline, but we simply didn't pull the trigger at the time.  

As for Douglas, we HAVE to assume he's going to draft well, or we're going to suck whether we have Adams or not.  As a rebuilding team, its imperative we let Douglas build the team in his vision through the draft.  That requires trading away some assets from the old regime and giving him as many picks as possible.  We already saw him trade away Leo and it looks like we won that trade.  Why not let him see what he can get for Adams?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

He might but if JD comes as advertised, he will wave his magic wand and this team will be good in two years. Everyone loves to play for a winner.

If JD is good as advertised, the best strategy is to give him MORE picks, not LESS.  Double down on building a brand new team via the draft.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

I just don’t trust any GM until he is a proven winner. Trading our best player (that’s the analyst consensus, at least) for lotto tickets? Can’t endorse until I get a sense of who is picking the numbers.

He's got a 6-year contract.  Like it or not, we have to operate under the assumption he's the adult in the room and drafts well.  Otherwise we're just spinning our wheels until the Johnson's die or sell the team.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Ahhhh an optimist in our midst

What's the alternative?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

By this logic, we shouldn't draft anyone or sign any free agents either.  Probably should fold the organization.

Best idea presented thus far.  

[14 in Green]

4 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Darnold is basically 5-4 this year (the Buff game is won by 99% of teams).  His wins have come against awful teams and Dallas and the Raiders (mediocre ones).  Can we agree to throw out all 3 "Luke Falk games"?

As alluding to the Buffalo game.  The same case can be made for last year...Houston, Green Bay, Cleveland, Miami....ALL games given away by a terrible coach's Defense, Houston and Green Bay, Darnold handed Bowles' D the Lead and asked them to protect it in the final drive which would have secured the Win....you can't put that on Darnold, can you?....if the Jets had a real HC last year they could have well been 8-8 last year....even with a team, that I agree with you, needs to be blown up, for the most part.

You get Darnold protection, sprinkle in maybe just a little run blocking, is that too much to ask?  Enough so he can at least sell play-action just Once (hasn't been able to close to 2 years, just a fu*kin disgrace)......I think under those conditions the Jets definitely compete for a Wildcard next year.  I expected them to compete this year but never envisioned the OL even being WORSE than it was in Darnold's 1st year.....Aaron Rodgers couldn't put up a winning record playing for the 2019 Jets.

I stopped reading at “Darnold is basically 5-4 this year”.

You know I love ya and your optimistic outlook, but you gotta stop with that kind of stuff.

Darnold and the offense sucked against Buffalo, despite the defense not only scoring as many points as they did, The offense was given great field position all day. 

Not only did Darnold not “basically win” that game, he torpedoed the Jets season by getting mono. He’s been up and down since he got back. The kid has been a disappointment so far, sorry.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

It is possible that you need to pay good money to have good players 

 

But you don't overpay players who don't move the needle for the franchise.  It's not just a simple "Adams is good, pay him what he thinks he's worth" situation we're talking about here. 

The only way your mentality would work here is if there were no salary cap.  

[Jetsfan80]

17 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

As much as I think the offense should be priority #1 this offseason, I agree with others here who state that cashing in Adams for a few lottery tickets in the draft might not be the best move.   I think the offense can be addressed enough without having to trade Adams.  

How so?

[Jetsfan80]

Put it this way:  Keeping Jamal and paying him $15M a year would be like going out to buy an Audi when your home is being foreclosed.  Sure, it would be cool to have a nice car.  But you're not going to get laid if you have to sleep in it every night and bathe in the fountain at the Mall.  

[ChuckkieB]

How so?

Dedicate the majority of the draft to OL and lWR and augment each position via free agency. Might not get done in one year but the offense in 2020 can look very different with smart moves and picks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Dedicate the majority of the draft to OL and lWR and augment each position via free agency. Might not get done in one year but the offense in 2020 can look very different with smart moves and picks.


 

We need to replace as many as 5 OL.  Think we'll get, say, 3 new starters out of one draft without having a bunch of 1st-3rd round picks?

We also can't rely on free agency.  As a bad team, you have to significantly overpay to get good ones to come here.  Meanwhile, teams don't tend to let good OL walk.  We were hoping for free agent OL to come here last offseason, but that didn't happen.  It won't really be any different this offseason.  

[Matt39]

Bell out sick and sounds like he won’t play. Possibly won’t see him either.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

23 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I stopped reading at “Darnold is basically 5-4 this year”.

You know I love ya and your optimistic outlook, but you gotta stop with that kind of stuff.

Darnold and the offense sucked against Buffalo, despite the defense not only scoring as many points as they did, The offense was given great field position all day. 

Not only did Darnold not “basically win” that game, he torpedoed the Jets season by getting mono. He’s been up and down since he got back. The kid has been a disappointment so far, sorry.

Not trying to make excuses for him, he had mono, a fever, which actually are very valid excuses, missed a few very important deep throws vs one of the best D's in the league in the first game.  The point I was trying to make was that the Buffalo game was a "Won" game (with no real thanks to Darnold), and that Darnold's record this year should be around 5-4.  There were many games last year that Darnold had "won" that Bowles D blew.  All this tells me that at present, with Darnold at QB, the Jets are around a .500 team, not a "1-15" team like I think you think it is.  Yes, the roster is total garbage and when they "step up in Class" against say a New England, they are not winning.  That has to be fixed.  None of that is Darnold's fault.

In no way can you grade Darnold as "A Disappointment so far", first, simply, is because he has made too many impressive throws that I don't know what Jet QB since Namath could have hit, and second he is around .500 for all intents and purposes with the WORST OL in the NFL and no playmakers to help him out, and the roster problems have been an issue since Day 1.  Do you agree with that?

I'm not being "Optimistic", I'm being "Realistic".

[jgb]

45 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

But you don't overpay players who don't move the needle for the franchise.  It's not just a simple "Adams is good, pay him what he thinks he's worth" situation we're talking about here. 

The only way your mentality would work here is if there were no salary cap.  

I think we are making a ton of assumptions. 1. What type of player will he be in 2 years. 2. Where will the franchise be in 2 years. 3. How much will he demand.

He’s playing good ball now why are we always too clever by half and rushing to dump our talent as soon as we actually have a draft pick work out for once?

We really don’t deserve nice things.

[jgb]

47 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What's the alternative?

Realism

[jgb]

49 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's got a 6-year contract.  Like it or not, we have to operate under the assumption he's the adult in the room and drafts well.  Otherwise we're just spinning our wheels until the Johnson's die or sell the team.  

I can be hopeful but at the same time not want him to trade away our best players for lotto tickets. He will have enough picks to play with. Let’s see what he does with them, first.

[jgb]

54 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Trading Bell makes little sense because I don't think we'd get much for him.  He didn't have many teams competing for his services last offseason.  Now that he's 1 year older and is having a poor season, his value is only dropping.  

Adams is a very different situation.  We know there were multiple teams (Cowboys, Ravens) willing to give up a juicy package of picks at the deadline, but we simply didn't pull the trigger at the time.  

As for Douglas, we HAVE to assume he's going to draft well, or we're going to suck whether we have Adams or not.  As a rebuilding team, its imperative we let Douglas build the team in his vision through the draft.  That requires trading away some assets from the old regime and giving him as many picks as possible.  We already saw him trade away Leo and it looks like we won that trade.  Why not let him see what he can get for Adams?

Until GM proves he can draft I don’t want to trade our best player for more draft picks

[jgb]

58 minutes ago, Warfish said:

What has our "analyst consensus" best player actually done for us?

Our record while he's been here being our "best player" is 5-11, 4-12 and 4-8 (so far).

Not terribly good, is it.  Maybe having a Safety, a luxury position in the NFL, as your "best player" isn't the way to build a competitive team?

I'd trade Adams for one solid O-Lineman.  Not a Pro-Bowler, not an "elite" player, just a good, solid, reliable O-lineman for 5-10 years.  We'd be better with that O-linemen than we'd ever be with Adams, because Safeties don't win football games, O-linemen protecting Franchise QB's do.

I'm open to finally trying to build this team a different way.  If our "draft Defense with #1 almost every draft for two decades" concept hasn;t worked, I'm 100% ok with trying to draft some Offense for a while instead.  

Adams is the perfect SOJ "elite" player.  

He is a good player. And I was vehemently against drafting him. True a SS can’t win games on his own. But this exact team with Ed Reed or even peak Deion would likely have the same record. If JD is good enough to trade our best player and entrust him with draft picks, you should also have faith he can turn the team around such that Adams is an important piece of said turnaround.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

The only hope this team has is that Douglas knows what he’s doing. Get him all the picks we can. Ifhe turns out to be clueless or even mediocre, we’re totally screwed for another 5 years anyway, what’s the difference?

This is the best argument for trading Adams that I have seen. The salary cap stuff is frankly completely unconvincing. If JD is such a stud drafter we will have half the team on rookie contracts before Adams’ halfway through the guaranteed years of his new deal anyway.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Until GM proves he can draft I don’t want to trade our best player for more draft picks

Again, this is overly simplistic.  Don't be so obtuse.  I've presented a lot of points that have decimated this argument and you're clearly ignoring them.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, jgb said:

This is the best argument for trading Adams that I have seen.

FFS that's the exact same argument I've been making the entire thread.  

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

I can be hopeful but at the same time not want him to trade away our best players for lotto tickets. He will have enough picks to play with. Let’s see what he does with them, first.

He will?  

[jgb]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

You do, but if you pay the wrong good players, you create more problems then you solve, just like the team who paid Landon Collins.

If we can’t trust JD to resign the right guys at the right price why are we so convinced he will be the best drafter in team history?

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He will?  

Let’s see how he does with 6 before we Idzik him with 12

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

I think we are making a ton of assumptions. 1. What type of player will he be in 2 years. 2. Where will the franchise be in 2 years. 3. How much will he demand.

He’s playing good ball now why are we always too clever by half and rushing to dump our talent as soon as we actually have a draft pick work out for once?

We really don’t deserve nice things.

 

1.  We've got nearly 3 years of sample on him.  He's not going to magically be able to cover WR's like a Corner.  The book has been written on what Jamal can and cannot do.  

2.  Whether the franchise is in better or worse shape in 2 years, Jamal isn't the best player to use as your central building block.  

3.  He will demand well over $14M per season.  The same guy who compared himself to Aaron Donald and spends most of his spare time doing self-promotion isn't going to accept a hometown discount.  Especially when he told Ryan Clark at the trade deadline that he'd love to go play for the Cowboys.  

 

 

As for the "we don't deserve nice things" argument, please.  We have 13 wins since Jamal Adams arrived.  You can excuse me for not considering that a "nice thing" worth keeping if we can get a bunch of draft picks and avoid paying him $15M a season.  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

FFS that's the exact same argument I've been making the entire thread.  

No you’re talking about salary and if a SS is worth paying.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

If we can’t trust JD to resign the right guys at the right price why are we so convinced he will be the best drafter in team history?

It's not about Douglas when it comes to paying Adams.  Its about what Adams wants and what the market suggests he's worth.  If SS Landon Collins got $14M a year, he'll want at least $15M.  Again, stop being obtuse about this stuff.