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Will We Ever See Adams Again In A Jet Uniform???

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

1.  We've got nearly 3 years of sample on him.  He's not going to magically be able to cover WR's like a Corner.  The book has been written on what Jamal can and cannot do.  

2.  Whether the franchise is in better or worse shape in 2 years, Jamal isn't the best player to use as your central building block.  

3.  He will demand well over $14M per season.  The same guy who compared himself to Aaron Donald and spends most of his spare time doing self-promotion isn't going to accept a hometown discount.  Especially when he told Ryan Clark at the trade deadline that he'd love to go play for the Cowboys.  

 

 

As for the "we don't deserve nice things" argument, please.  We have 13 wins since Jamal Adams arrived.  You can excuse me for not considering that a "nice thing" worth keeping if we can get a bunch of draft picks and avoid paying him $15M a season.  

How many playoff wins did Detroit have with Barry Sanders? Boy he must’ve sucked.

Other than with QBs this is a very weak argument imho.

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

No you’re talking about salary and if a SS is worth paying.

I said almost the exact words you're quoting earlier in the thread.  You even quoted the post I made.

 

What 14 in Green said:

 

The only hope this team has is that Douglas knows what he’s doing. Get him all the picks we can. Ifhe turns out to be clueless or even mediocre, we’re totally screwed for another 5 years anyway, what’s the difference?

 

What I said:

 

He's got a 6-year contract.  Like it or not, we have to operate under the assumption he's the adult in the room and drafts well.  Otherwise we're just spinning our wheels until the Johnson's die or sell the team.  

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not about Douglas when it comes to paying Adams.  Its about what Adams wants and what the market suggests he's worth.  If SS Landon Collins got $14M a year, he'll want at least $15M.  Again, stop being obtuse about this stuff.  

See not the same argument as the one I endorse (if Douglass sucks we are sunk anyway so what’s Adams gonna do for us?)

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Just now, jgb said:

How many playoff wins did Detroit have with Barry Sanders? Boy he must’ve sucked.

Other than with QBs this is a very weak argument imho.

RB's and Strong Safeties are about the same when it comes to their value to a team.  You're not helping your point.  

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Just now, jgb said:

See not the same argument as the one I endorse (if Douglass sucks we are sunk anyway so what’s Adams gonna do for us?)

I've made both arguments.  Read above.  

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Let’s see how he does with 6 before we Idzik him with 12

If he sucks with 6 we're screwed anyways.  So what's the difference?

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

RB's and Strong Safeties are about the same when it comes to their value to a team.  You're not helping your point.  

Still helps to have talent there. We don’t have anyone else to spend money on. If JD is so good let’s relax we will have half the team on cheap rookie deals in 2-3 years and can fit Adams’ deal in with ease.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

If he sucks with 6 we're screwed anyways.  So what's the difference?

That argument I actually find more convincing. Still prefer to wait to next year before dealing Adams if at all.

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Just now, jgb said:

Still helps to have talent there. We don’t have anyone else to spend money on. If JD is so good let’s relax we will have half the team on cheap rookie deals in 2-3 years and can fit Adams’ deal in with ease.

We're eventually going to have to decide on paying Sam.  So that's not remotely true.  We've also already spent big money on Mosley and Bell, and those contracts aren't easy to escape in the near future.  Spending big on Jamal would  just compound previous mistakes, not fix them.  

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22 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Not trying to make excuses for him, he had mono, a fever, which actually are very valid excuses, missed a few very important deep throws vs one of the best D's in the league in the first game.  The point I was trying to make was that the Buffalo game was a "Won" game (with no real thanks to Darnold), and that Darnold's record this year should be around 5-4.  There were many games last year that Darnold had "won" that Bowles D blew.  All this tells me that at present, with Darnold at QB, the Jets are around a .500 team, not a "1-15" team like I think you think it is.  Yes, the roster is total garbage and when they "step up in Class" against say a New England, they are not winning.  That has to be fixed.  None of that is Darnold's fault.

In no way can you grade Darnold as "A Disappointment so far", first, simply, is because he has made too many impressive throws that I don't know what Jet QB since Namath could have hit, and second he is around .500 for all intents and purposes with the WORST OL in the NFL and no playmakers to help him out, and the roster problems have been an issue since Day 1.  Do you agree with that?

I'm not being "Optimistic", I'm being "Realistic".

I’ll give you the answer I like to always give those who feel how you do.

I hope you’re right, and I’m wrong about this kid. I look at what he’s done so far, and I see at best an Andy Dalton type of ceiling.

Nothing would make me happier then you turning out to be correct in comparing him to the guys you do.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

We're eventually going to have to decide on paying Sam.  So that's not remotely true.  We've also already spent big money on Mosley and Bell, and those contracts aren't easy to escape in the near future.  Spending big on Jamal would  just compound previous mistakes, not fix them.  

Maybe still don’t see the big rush

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Just now, jgb said:

That argument I actually find more convincing. Still prefer to wait to next year before dealing Adams if at all.

That's a lot better than what you've been saying.  But I would argue that Jamal's value will never be higher than it is this offseason (technically it might have been even higher at the trade deadline this year), and I'd rather have 2020 picks now than wait to get 2021 picks for him, even if it means putting a lot of eggs in the 2020 draft basket for our new GM.  

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4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I’ll give you the answer I like to always give those who feel how you do.

I hope you’re right, and I’m wrong about this kid. I look at what he’s done so far, and I see at best an Andy Dalton type of ceiling.

Nothing would make me happier then you turning out to be correct in comparing him to the guys you do.

I agree with you mostly except saying Dalton is his ceiling is as premature as saying Rodgers is his ceiling imho. I think Rodgers upside is an opinion that can only  be supported by hope at this point based on whet we have seen. Also, he may well end up a Dalton but he still has more upside than him. Whether he gets there we will see.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's a lot better than what you've been saying.  But I would argue that Jamal's value will never be higher than it is this offseason (technically it might have been even higher at the trade deadline this year), and I'd rather have 2020 picks now than wait to get 2021 picks for him, even if it means putting a lot of eggs in the 2020 draft basket for our new GM.  

It is my view every post doesn’t cover the entirety of it. We aren’t selling stock here though. We get another year of him on a rook deal, we get some idea of whether JD is Idzik, Newsome or something in between, then I’d feel more comfortable trading our biggest chip for picks even if we get less of a return.

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25 minutes ago, jgb said:

He is a good player.

He is.

25 minutes ago, jgb said:

And I was vehemently against drafting him.

As was I.

25 minutes ago, jgb said:

True a SS can’t win games on his own.

o7

25 minutes ago, jgb said:

But this exact team with Ed Reed or even peak Deion would likely have the same record.

Perhaps.  I'd argue no defender alone is vital to winning.  The modern NFL is 100% about Offense and scoring points.  Not a single pass rusher or coverage guy.  Adams is neither, he's a sack guy by scheme.  He's okish in coverage (so few INT's).  20-40 years ago, on a good team, he'd be a HOF'er.  Today he's an extra.

25 minutes ago, jgb said:

If JD is good enough to trade our best player and entrust him with draft picks, you should also have faith he can turn the team around such that Adams is an important piece of said turnaround.

Nope.  Adams will never be an important piece, because Strong Safety simply isn't an important piece in the NFL of 2019.  They do not do enough, and much of their past power (crushing head hits and run stopping) just aren't relevant anymore in the fast paced offenses of today.  Again, I don;t care how a strong safety Adams is, I'd trade him for ONE solid, reliable O-lineman.  Protecting Darnold has vastly more effect than a few tackles, a rare pass defensed and a sack or three in a season.  

Darnold is our future.  No one else.  Certainly no one on defense.  Every asset needs bent to serve building around Darnold, not trying to be the 80's Bears in a 2020 Offensive league.  In point of fact, Adams isn't so great that what he does can't be found in later draft rounds.  Ask for an extra 4th in whatever deal, and use it for a safety, you'll probably get 85% of what Adams produces.  Not as good, but good enough.

I want a rebuild now.  Now in three years or five, the modern NFL doesn't request a half-decade to rebuild, it's a one-year rebuild kind of league.  I fully expect Gase and Darnold to compete for the playoffs next year, and if they fail to do so it's a massive failure of them and Douglas.  No excuses, no "well, in a few years maybe", now.  Now IS possible in one offseason.  No more giving five year excuse trains followed by year 1 of 10 rebuild plans.

Sell Adams to the highest bidder, use the picks, move on.  He win't be missed on the field if Darnold is what his fans claim, and he starts getting protection and people to throw to.

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53 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Not trying to make excuses for him, he had mono, a fever, which actually are very valid excuses, missed a few very important deep throws vs one of the best D's in the league in the first game.  The point I was trying to make was that the Buffalo game was a "Won" game (with no real thanks to Darnold), and that Darnold's record this year should be around 5-4.  There were many games last year that Darnold had "won" that Bowles D blew.  All this tells me that at present, with Darnold at QB, the Jets are around a .500 team, not a "1-15" team like I think you think it is.  Yes, the roster is total garbage and when they "step up in Class" against say a New England, they are not winning.  That has to be fixed.  None of that is Darnold's fault.

In no way can you grade Darnold as "A Disappointment so far", first, simply, is because he has made too many impressive throws that I don't know what Jet QB since Namath could have hit, and second he is around .500 for all intents and purposes with the WORST OL in the NFL and no playmakers to help him out, and the roster problems have been an issue since Day 1.  Do you agree with that?

I'm not being "Optimistic", I'm being "Realistic".

Ok, you say you say you’re not making excuses for him, yet go back and look at your first paragraph, it is nothing but you making excuses for him, or explaining why yo could make more.

Second paragraph.

Yes, I can grade Darnold a disappointment so far. Why?

For every good throw you and I have seen, I have seen a terrible one. I’ve seen a guy we gave up a ton to get not improve his mechanics, not affect the W-Ls in the least, not make anyone around him better. All I hear is what he need to have around him to look competent.

Im not trying to be an a** here, but I’m sure you noticed in the last year a lot more people here have begun to doubt him then there are becoming convinced he’s going to become elite.

Thats troublesome, even for me, someone who never quite bought in. 

Oh well, like I said, I hope you turn out to be right about him...

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6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

+1

Trade the best player the Jets have drafted since Darrelle Revis simply because he plays Safety and he dances a little too much for some fans' liking?  Great idea. <Insert eye roll here> Imagine what this guy could do if there was anything else on this defense for opponents to worry about.  Some people wanted pass rusher Demarcus Lawrence this past offseason.  We've gotten more sacks out of our Safety than that dude.

I'm not saying don't trade Jamal regardless of compensation.  I'm just saying it would need to be compensation that is commensurate with getting a young Pro Bowl player that still has years of contract controllability (ex. more than a late 1st and another early/mid round pick)

Yep it infuriates me. The guy has fun but god for bid he doesn’t fall in line to some old white guys view of “respect”. It’s that type of fan that kept Eli propped up for so long. I second your eye roll

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10 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

And you don't think Douglas was in the camp that wanted to keep Ed Reed around when he was working for the Baltimore Ravens?

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to keep Jamal. I'm just saying I think our team would see a better return if we protect Sam. I have a feeling Jamal wants out anyway so I'd rather maximize his return.

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9 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

 

For every good throw you and I have seen, I have seen a terrible one. I’ve seen a guy we gave up a ton to get not improve his mechanics, not affect the W-Ls in the least, not make anyone around him better. All I hear is what he need to have around him to look competent.

I

That's nonsense. Darnold does not throw many terrible balls, and to see he has not affected W/L record is just silly. Would we have beat Dallas or Oakland with our backups?

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49 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

Nope.  Adams will never be an important piece, because Strong Safety simply isn't an important piece in the NFL of 2019.  They do not do enough, and much of their past power (crushing head hits and run stopping) just aren't relevant anymore in the fast paced offenses of today.  Again, I don;t care how a strong safety Adams is, I'd trade him for ONE solid, reliable O-lineman.  Protecting Darnold has vastly more effect than a few tackles, a rare pass defensed and a sack or three in a season.  

Darnold is our future.  No one else.  Certainly no one on defense.  Every asset needs bent to serve building around Darnold, not trying to be the 80's Bears in a 2020 Offensive league.  In point of fact, Adams isn't so great that what he does can't be found in later draft rounds.  Ask for an extra 4th in whatever deal, and use it for a safety, you'll probably get 85% of what Adams produces.  Not as good, but good enough.

Sell Adams to the highest bidder, use the picks, move on.  He win't be missed on the field if Darnold is what his fans claim, and he starts getting protection and people to throw to.

Here’s the real issue.  I’d rather have a really good rb, a young rb like dalvin cook, than Jamal Adams.  I’d rather have a good wr than a good cb like lattimore.  I’d rather have a stud LT than Aaron Donald.  Besides the patriots who seem to be able to win regardless of talent or personnel, the other playoff teams generally get there with good offenses.  Paying scherff should yield more return than paying a good DL.  Drafting a good LT in the first round is worth more wins than drafting a good cb.  Where exactly does Adams rank in terms of importance to this team?  If the jets new gm starts adding offense, Adams will soon see how relatively replaceable his is here, and how wins are much more dependent on protecting darnold and having a more dynamic rb and wr than paying so much money to a safety who is more often than not a liability in coverage.

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2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

That's nonsense. Darnold does not throw many terrible balls, and to see he has not affected W/L record is just silly. Would we have beat Dallas or Oakland with our backups?

We both look at him differently obviously. That’s fine, neither one of us is his HC, and what you or I think isn’t that important.

You see a guy who doesn’t throw a lot of bad balls, I do. I see a guy with what, 30 tds and 25 ints, and a poor QB ranking both years he’s played. I also think his mechanics and need work and I’m not impressed with his ability to throw deep.

You ask could we beat Dallas or Oakland with our backups. No we couldn’t most likely, because the two QBs who have filled in for him were a 40 something year old journeyman career back up last year, and a project 4th round guy from the practice squad Gase wouldn’t even give first team reps before his final start this season.

 I see a guy who’s beaten Dallas and Oakland this year(neither of whom are over :500 right now) lost to an 0-7 and a 0-11 team (and looked bad doing it), hasn’t won a game in his division this year, and has a career record of 8-14.

Like I said, it’s okay to feel he will improve, and become a FQB, but at this point, it’s just as ok to look at what he’s done so far and question whether he will.

 

 

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18 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

The collective logic on this site makes me think everyone of the posters got dropped on their heads as a baby. Trading Jamal Adams is not only foolish, it serves no purpose. The Jets would never get what he's worth. Not to mention he serves as an ambassador to attract free agents. Do you really think CJ Mosley would have come to MY if Jamal hadn't been talking to him? There were just as many teams offering Mosley comparable money. Jamal Adams is a game changer and he also happens to be our ONLY source of pressure on the QB. So you idiots want to trade him so you draft ANOTHER DL? Brilliant logic.

Lets start from the beginning of your ludicrous post, trading Jamal Adams, it is not foolish, foolish is paying him 15 million a year, and saying it would not serve a purpose is wrong, if we can get picks to upgrade this offensive line. Ambassador, what a joke, Mosley came here for the money, and as it turned out, he got big money to play one game. Game changer, lol, he was a big part of beating the Cowboys this year, what else? Calling posters idiots, while you post this dribble, you are either very delusional, or just insane.

 

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12 hours ago, Warfish said:

He is.

As was I.

o7

Perhaps.  I'd argue no defender alone is vital to winning.  The modern NFL is 100% about Offense and scoring points.  Not a single pass rusher or coverage guy.  Adams is neither, he's a sack guy by scheme.  He's okish in coverage (so few INT's).  20-40 years ago, on a good team, he'd be a HOF'er.  Today he's an extra.

Nope.  Adams will never be an important piece, because Strong Safety simply isn't an important piece in the NFL of 2019.  They do not do enough, and much of their past power (crushing head hits and run stopping) just aren't relevant anymore in the fast paced offenses of today.  Again, I don;t care how a strong safety Adams is, I'd trade him for ONE solid, reliable O-lineman.  Protecting Darnold has vastly more effect than a few tackles, a rare pass defensed and a sack or three in a season.  

Darnold is our future.  No one else.  Certainly no one on defense.  Every asset needs bent to serve building around Darnold, not trying to be the 80's Bears in a 2020 Offensive league.  In point of fact, Adams isn't so great that what he does can't be found in later draft rounds.  Ask for an extra 4th in whatever deal, and use it for a safety, you'll probably get 85% of what Adams produces.  Not as good, but good enough.

I want a rebuild now.  Now in three years or five, the modern NFL doesn't request a half-decade to rebuild, it's a one-year rebuild kind of league.  I fully expect Gase and Darnold to compete for the playoffs next year, and if they fail to do so it's a massive failure of them and Douglas.  No excuses, no "well, in a few years maybe", now.  Now IS possible in one offseason.  No more giving five year excuse trains followed by year 1 of 10 rebuild plans.

Sell Adams to the highest bidder, use the picks, move on.  He win't be missed on the field if Darnold is what his fans claim, and he starts getting protection and people to throw to.

If SS is so unimportant why are we so convinced some team is going to trade us a draft haul for him?

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31 minutes ago, jgb said:

If SS is so unimportant why are we so convinced some team is going to trade us a draft haul for him?

A SS like Jamal Adams that can blitz well, is the perfect “final piece” for many good teams looking for something extra and already have a solid roster in place. Or at least they think that and will overpay due to hype etc.

There are plenty of stupid GMs and/or teams that have a surplus of draft picks from trading down. These teams are more willing to “splurge” because it won’t cripple their drafts or roster. He can be a good player for us but he is our ONLY bargaining chip and we have to make up for a lost decade of offense investment in an effort to save our young QB that we are ruining OR find a new QB and at least be in a decent offensive situation.

Jamal’s little tantrum around the trade deadline, me first attitude and bizarre emotional videos, just make it easy to want to part with one of our best players. We have to be thinking big picture. Douglas and the draft is the only solution for us.

We are most likely looking at a COMPLETE rebuild which includes Darnold floundering because this team is trash and just building a foundation, then moving on from Darnold or Darnold running from this team as fast as he can. We need to just build the basics and accept that Mac COMPLETELY failed, ruined this team and added insult to injury but drafting a talented QB prospect and basically throwing him into the worst offense possible which greatly increases his chances of busting as we are seeing. 

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10 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

We both look at him differently obviously. That’s fine, neither one of us is his HC, and what you or I think isn’t that important.

You see a guy who doesn’t throw a lot of bad balls, I do. I see a guy with what, 30 tds and 25 ints, and a poor QB ranking both years he’s played. I also think his mechanics and need work and I’m not impressed with his ability to throw deep.

You ask could we beat Dallas or Oakland with our backups. No we couldn’t most likely, because the two QBs who have filled in for him were a 40 something year old journeyman career back up last year, and a project 4th round guy from the practice squad Gase wouldn’t even give first team reps before his final start this season.

 I see a guy who’s beaten Dallas and Oakland this year(neither of whom are over :500 right now) lost to an 0-7 and a 0-11 team (and looked bad doing it), hasn’t won a game in his division this year, and has a career record of 8-14.

Like I said, it’s okay to feel he will improve, and become a FQB, but at this point, it’s just as ok to look at what he’s done so far and question whether he will.

 

 

You can be a good QB on a bad team, with a bad record. Our problem is we didn't pick Russell Wilson (When Bradway was pounding the table for him), he's a rare QB that lift everyone around him. 

But we didn't. And Macc after that drafted terribly so when we had to give up a lot to get Sam Darnold but now he's surrounded with eh players. Sanchez should have split his new contract that Tanny gave him with that Oline that made him look so good. 

Sam unfortunately is in a bad situation, with a terrible Oline. I can't reiterate how awful this Oline is. Beachum is a just below average scrub, your playing backups at LG, Center, RG, and Shell is another average scrub that doesn't get any better year to year. Macc ignored the Oline, we all know it, these scrubs aren't getting better. 

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The time to trade Adams is NOW 

 

when his value is at an at an all time high

 

two years ago the Celtics offered the knicks Jaylon Brown and two first rd picks for Porzinigis.  Phil Jackson wanted to accept the trade offer Dolan said no

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When Mosley is back next year and healthy, Adams won’t make any sense in the defense. JD seems smart enough to make that trade. 

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He thinks he is underpaid by 13 million dollars a year and u think he cares about the fines and the media??
 
Hahahahahahaha
He is not playing another down of football until us or another team makes him the highest paid safety in the league.  
He is agent would be a moron letting him play for 3mil a year and risk him blowing out a knee and never getting the big contract.
Media and fines???  Hahahahahaha.
That was hysterical.

Isn’t it interesting how the NFLPA allows guys to hold out during the fought for and agreed upon rookie contract structure? It goes against the whole system from my POV and I don’t know why they don’t step in when it happens.

We are seeing it more and more but don’t know why it’s allowed.

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

The time to trade Adams is NOW 

 

when his value is at an at an all time high

 

two years ago the Celtics offered the knicks Jaylon Brown and two first rd picks for Porzinigis.  Phil Jackson wanted to accept the trade offer Dolan said no

Like the great Branch Rickey always said, "better to trade a player one year too soon than one year too late."

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On 12/6/2019 at 10:46 AM, section314 said:

Wow, you are way younger than I thought. Put in a tape of Lawrence Taylor some time and tell me if you still feel the same way.😁

I saw Taylor's entire career on TV when it happened. He was incredible, no doubt, but what Revis did should have been impossible given the rules and the players he did it against. Also without Taylor's admitted enhancements and methods that we didn't find out about until years later, it's likely he wouldn't have been as successful as he was. 

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12 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

A SS like Jamal Adams that can blitz well, is the perfect “final piece” for many good teams looking for something extra and already have a solid roster in place. Or at least they think that and will overpay due to hype etc.

There are plenty of stupid GMs and/or teams that have a surplus of draft picks from trading down. These teams are more willing to “splurge” because it won’t cripple their drafts or roster. He can be a good player for us but he is our ONLY bargaining chip and we have to make up for a lost decade of offense investment in an effort to save our young QB that we are ruining OR find a new QB and at least be in a decent offensive situation.

Jamal’s little tantrum around the trade deadline, me first attitude and bizarre emotional videos, just make it easy to want to part with one of our best players. We have to be thinking big picture. Douglas and the draft is the only solution for us.

We are most likely looking at a COMPLETE rebuild which includes Darnold floundering because this team is trash and just building a foundation, then moving on from Darnold or Darnold running from this team as fast as he can. We need to just build the basics and accept that Mac COMPLETELY failed, ruined this team and added insult to injury but drafting a talented QB prospect and basically throwing him into the worst offense possible which greatly increases his chances of busting as we are seeing. 

If JD is good as we want to hope, we will need a final piece soon. If he sucks why give him more picks to blow?

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

If JD is good as we want to hope, we will need a final piece soon. If he sucks why give him more picks to blow?

I don’t think it’ll be soon. It’s at least 2 offseasons of quality acquisitions before we are middle of the pack. The overpaying of Adams does coincide with that and we can get “good” quicker with extra premium picks and cap room to spend on more important positions. I wouldn’t trade Adams for peanuts. I’m talking minimum 1st and a 3rd.

This is all my opinion of course. I don’t think we’ll need a final piece anytime soon. No GM is that good. I’m only hoping for a good GM. Not even great. That alone will make me happy after the trash we’ve seen over the last decade. 

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10 hours ago, section314 said:

Like the great Branch Rickey always said, "better to trade a player one year too soon than one year too late."

If we trade Q and Adams we could have 3 first round picks that is exactly what the jets need

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