Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
RonaldJet

What were the five worst moves in the McCagnan era?

Recommended Posts

1,000 minimum rep points before being allowed to start a thread.

Or at least have mods approve threads.

It'll help keep out this riffraff. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Obviously the full story hasn’t been written yet, but five years from now when we are looking back at it what do you think the list will look like?

1) Drafting Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round: Not only did they blow a 2nd round pick on a kid who couldn’t play, but it was compounded by the fact that he didn’t draft Watson/Mahomes in large part because of blind hope that Hackenberg would develop. 
 

2) Trading up for Sam Darnold: To be fair I supported the trade and was happy to select Sam at three at the time of the draft. Hindsight 20-20 this was a bad move. The Jets were not in any position forfeit draft capital given the state of the roster, and Darnold does not look like he’s going to develop into a top tier QB worthy of the draft haul given up unfortunately. 
 

3) Drafting Quinnen Williams: It’s early in Quinnens career, but does anyone honestly believe he’s going to all off a sudden develop a pass rushing element to his game? He’s getting outplayed by UDFAs and 6th round draft picks. 
 

4) Darron Lee, Devin Smith, Jachai Polite, Lorenzo Mauldin, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen: Throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks type drafting 

5) Not addressing OL in the draft: The Jets consistently allocated more $ to the OL than any other team in the league under McCagnan. Instead of paying top dollar for lousy players (Beachum, Carpenter, Winters, Wesley Johnson, Spencer Long, Willie Colon) he should have addressed this need at the top of the draft. 

Who cares?!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5?  Just 5?  I think there were 5 before he has his first sip of coffee here (we all know how much Macc loved his coffee).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jamal Adams.

The alternate was Watson/Mahomes, another #1, and 3 #2s.

That mistake landed us a lesser QB and 4 other players.

No other mistake had that much of a chain reaction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:
 
1) Drafting Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round: Not only did they blow a 2nd round pick on a kid who couldn’t play, but it was compounded by the fact that he didn’t draft Watson/Mahomes in large part because of blind hope that Hackenberg would develop. 
 
I don’t mind the decision to draft hackenberg if you felt so strong about him, sometimes you swing for the fences. My problem with this move is 
1 How could you be just so wrong about a player and 
2 after a year of seeing him how could he effect your next years draft 

It goes even deeper than that. During the 2016 draft, Mac had a deal on the table to trade up 10 spots and take Laremy Tunsil. It would have cost the Jets their 1, 2, and their 4 to consumate that trade. Well, Mac turned the deal down because he really wanted Hackenberg and really thought Darron Lee was a truly great linebacker? I can't think of a bigger mistake in NFL history? If he had made the trade, the Jets would have fulfilled an enormous need and they still would have been in the market for a QB. So who knows what would have happened? All I can say is, the very second the announcement came of the Jets taking Darron Lee I knew the Jets were f*cked for many seasons to come. I knew at that point that Mac was a terrible GM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Jets723 said:

Can we wait until the kid has a decent OL before we give up on him.  He is only 22. When the kid does have decent protection he looks really good.  He even looks good when he doesn’t which is a lot.  He has made mistakes but he is still a kid learning in a bad situation.  Also everyone crying about Mahomes needs to understand that he was brought in a great situation immediately, a really good team. If Mahomes was drafted by the Jets he probably wouldn’t be nearly as good that’s just being realistic 

World record for use of the word “kid” in one post. Notice that no one ever uses the word in a negative context. E.g., “that kid is a bum.”

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I honestly have no idea what those people see as these huge negatives against Sam. 14 in 1 thinks that HALF of his throws are terrible. It's bizarre, he's had a few really bad games, but has learned from them and if you truly look at Sam and think he is a bad QB, its just confounding to me.

Macs top 5 with a note that his complete disregard of OL led to many of his more stuipid mistakes

1. Hackenburg

2. Not selecting Mahomes or Watson

3. Drafting Q Willams

4. Johnson

5. Resigning Mo

 

I could literally list 20 more almost as bad as above.

 

Replace #3 with drafting Polite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's see. Well for starters, people who are correct in citing the OL negligence, but saying he was negligent for half a decade lets him off the hook easy. He did it each year, so that's a thing each year. 4 years = 4 things, not 1 thing, and that's just for the OL alone. 

I could give a slight pass to 2015 because of the circumstances right at that point. He signed Carpenter (his 3rd choice, and after the first 2 signed/re-signed elsewhere, he ended up with a relative bargain by accident) and re-signed Colon in 2015. The team still had Ferguson and Mangold, and though the former was already showing some significant decline already, Mangold's seemed far more slight; he probably figured - incorrectly, as it turned out - at least one of them would still be a consistent/reliable starter for another few seasons, and possibly beyond that. Plus there were 2 guards on the roster from the 2013 draft, though neither had looked good by the start of the 2015 offseason. 

After the 2015 season ended on Ferguson's poor pass blocking - the very part of his game that made him special at his best - it was clear the team needed a new, long term solution at the position. Failed solution #1 in pre-draft 2016 was the failure to sign a very available UFA LT in Okung if the goal was to insta-fill the position long term with a veteran. Failed solution #2 was to ink Beachum, who had such a terrible 2016 season coming off his injury that the success of this move was in his failure to secure a deal he wanted. Failed solution #3 was - after any/all viable veteran FA starters were taken - to then present Ferguson with an ultimatum 50% pay cut or get cut. It's stupid for 2 reasons: first, if Ferguson isn't worth paying he's not worth playing for half either. I mean, the upside was locking into him for $5MM when they didn't want him anymore. Ferguson turned the team down by retiring I think, and the team was now staring at no LT, leading to failed solution #4: securing an unreliable-health veteran via trade (and doing so before seeing who he could get early on in the draft). This was followed by failed solution #5, which was - after passing on an opportunity to move up to #1 for a QB like the Rams did (see below*) - he also passed on the impossible luck of Tunsil - "the best overall prospect in the draft" (a Maccagnan favorite) - dropping down to the Giants' pick at #10, with the Giants motivated to trade down. He turned that deal down, too, allegedly over a 3rd round pick or something. So instead of Tunsil getting broken in at RT or guard behind Clady (until Clady got hurt), what did we end up with? Darron Lee and Christian Hackenberg, which then led to passing on a QB in the next draft as well, and wasting 2 seasons in the process. 

* moving up to #1 would have saved the team from the following, like a perfect wish coming true:

  • Fill the FQB position in 2016 with a young QB on a rookie contract (a particularly nice side effect after busting his nut on so many veteran contracts in 2015);
  • Make the very public and embarrassing Ryan Fitzpatrick contract debacle go away;
  • Trade his holdout Wilkerson (clearing up his FT cap space), which then would lead to bypassing that contract that paid him $37MM for 2 unproductive seasons (and still more humiliation) so they could fit re-signing Fitzpatrick right after that;
  • Bypass the drafting of future failure Darron Lee;
  • Bypass the drafting of all-time failure Christian Hackenberg;
  • Prevent wasting the 2016 NFL season -- one he billed as a "competitive rebuild" year, which turned out to be neither competitive nor productive in terms of rebuilding;
  • Prevent wasting the 2017 season (whichever the reason, or combination thereof, between not giving up on Hackenberg, and incorrectly presuming there were going to be 3-6 QBs in the 2018 draft better than anybody available to us in 2017's draft - Watson or Mahomes ffs - so he took a safety instead);
  • All the additional FAs he could have instead signed with the $60MM he guaranteed & paid out to Wilkerson (2 years $37MM), Fitzpatrick (1 yr $12MM), McCown (1 yr $10MM) just as direct results of the failed trade-up.
  • Oh yeah, and we'd also have back the picks used to trade up and draft Darnold 2 seasons later.

This bulleted list above were the ensuing snowball effect results of one move (really a non-move) on his part.

What makes it crazier is, if the QB he moved up to draft in 2016 turned out to be such a failure (like the one he did draft), he could have just drafted another QB 2 years later - which he did anyway - and the team would have been no worse off in the long run. Meanwhile we'd have been spared fully wasting 2 more full seasons for nothing, and the humiliation of drafting the only healthy, top-50 pick QB who never took one NFL snap for us or any other team before getting bounced out of the league.

Here I haven't even touched upon so many other awful moves and non-moves he made before and after the above. And there were many more of them.

The man was poison. I'm still amazed he had so many defenders for so long. 

  • Post of the Week 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/7/2019 at 6:42 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

@Maxman you saw this thread created and didn't text me directly?

That's not how you treat someone you love. 

Sorry, next time I promise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Let's see. Well for starters, people who are correct in citing the OL negligence, but saying he was negligent for half a decade lets him off the hook easy. He did it each year, so that's a thing each year. 4 years = 4 things, not 1 thing, and that's just for the OL alone. 

I could give a slight pass to 2015 because of the circumstances right at that point. He signed Carpenter (his 3rd choice, and after the first 2 signed/re-signed elsewhere, he ended up with a relative bargain by accident) and re-signed Colon in 2015. The team still had Ferguson and Mangold, and though the former was already showing some significant decline already, Mangold's seemed far more slight; he probably figured - incorrectly, as it turned out - at least one of them would still be a consistent/reliable starter for another few seasons, and possibly beyond that. 

After the 2015 season ended on Ferguson's poor pass blocking - the very part of his game that made him special at his best - it was clear the team needed a new, long term solution at the position. Failed solution #1 in pre-draft 2016 was the failure to sign a very available UFA LT in Okung if the goal was to insta-fill the position long term with a veteran. Failed solution #2 was to ink Beachum, who had such a terrible 2016 season coming off his injury that the success of this move was in his failure to secure a deal he wanted. Failed solution #3 was - after any/all viable veteran FA starters were taken - to then present Ferguson with an ultimatum 50% pay cut or get cut. It's stupid for 2 reasons: first, if Ferguson isn't worth paying he's not worth playing for half either. I mean, the upside was locking into him for $5MM when they didn't want him anymore. Ferguson turned the team down by retiring I think, and the team was now staring at no LT, leading to failed solution #3: securing an unreliable-health veteran via trade (and doing so before seeing who he could get early on in the draft). This was followed by failed solution #4, which was - after passing on an opportunity to move up to #1 for a QB like the Rams did (see below*) - he also passed on the impossible luck of Tunsil - "the best overall prospect in the draft" (a Maccagnan favorite) - dropping down to the Giants' pick at #10, with the Giants motivated to trade down. He turned that deal down, too, allegedly over a 3rd round pick or something. So instead of Tunsil getting broken in at RT or guard behind Clady (until Clady got hurt), what did we end up with? Darron Lee and Christian Hackenberg, which then led to passing on a QB in the next draft as well. 

* moving up to #1 would have saved the team from the following, like a perfect wish coming true:

  • Fill the FQB position in 2016 with a young QB on a rookie contract (a particularly nice side effect after busting his nut on so many veteran contracts in 2015);
  • Make the very public and embarrassing Ryan Fitzpatrick contract debacle go away;
  • Trade his holdout Wilkerson (clearing up his FT cap space), which then would lead to bypassing that contract that paid him $37MM for 2 unproductive seasons (and still more humiliation);
  • Bypass the drafting of future failure Darron Lee;
  • Bypass the drafting of all-time failure Christian Hackenberg;
  • Prevent wasting the 2016 NFL season -- one he billed as a "competitive rebuild" year, which turned out to be neither competitive nor productive in terms of rebuilding;
  • Prevent wasting the 2017 season (whichever the reason, or combination thereof, between not giving up on Hackenberg, and incorrectly presuming there were going to be 3-6 QBs in the 2018 draft better than anybody available to us in 2017's draft, so he took a safety instead;
  • All the additional FAs he could have instead signed with the $60MM he guaranteed & paid out to Wilkerson (2 years $37MM), Fitzpatrick (1 yr $12MM), McCown (1 yr $10MM).

This bulleted list above were the ensuing snowball effect results of one move (really a non-move) on his part.

What makes it crazier is, if the QB he moved up to draft in 2016 turned out to be such a failure (like the one he did draft), he could have just drafted another QB 2 years later - which he did anyway - and the team would have been no worse off in the long run. Meanwhile we'd have been spared fully wasting 2 more full seasons for nothing, and the humiliation of drafting the only healthy, top-50 pick QB who never took one NFL snap for us or any other team before getting bounced out of the league.

Here I haven't even touched upon so many other awful moves and non-moves he made before and after the above. And there were many more of them.

The man was poison. I'm still amazed he had so many defenders for so long. 

In no means is this meant to entirely soup you up.  But this post entirely crystallizes the problem with the Jets. For a long time, they mostly hire pure idiots.

You have the ability to think critically and probably have more intelligence in one of your pinky fingers than Mike Maccagnan and throw in about 5 generations of his family combined and while we’re at it maybe throw in the 2 black sheep Johnson brothers.

Just hope Douglas does the wisest thing and fixes the total wreck of an OL along with giving Darnold more weapons as Task #1.

Also, if there are any other Hedge Fund titans interested in buying a football team in NY please Johnson bros...take the money...you’ll look like geniuses and crow about your billion plus gain at your cocktail parties, football is not for you.....SELL. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All macc’s problems start with gutless drafting in the first round. He always went BAP as defined by consensus. Never banged the table for “his guy,” consensus be damned and put his own ass on the line for something he believed in. Just waited to see who fell and then took him. It was basically auto draft.

Then, because he took these “BAP” guys at low impact positions (maybe that’s why “the best player in the draft” always fell to us, hm?) he was forced to chase need in later rounds. His strategy here was to take injured guys or guys who had very checkered/inconsistent resumes to try to “find 1st round talent in the X round.” Any GM will fail much more often than he wins pursuing such a strategy.

Then of course bad drafts = playing the FA game. The Jets were rated the least prepared in negotiations of all NFL teams by agents. If you stink and the draft, and you stink at negotiating with FAs...

what would you say you do here office space GIF

  • Post of the Week 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

paying Mo and Fitz (had the right idea but caved believing Brandon Marshall), not trading up for Wentz and the hack (anyone who watched that kid play at PSU could tell this was a wasted pick)

should have been fired before he got to do anything else

edit - see Sperm Edwards excellent post above that provides much better detail

life lesson to stick to your guns

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/7/2019 at 11:25 AM, RonaldJet said:

Obviously the full story hasn’t been written yet, but five years from now when we are looking back at it what do you think the list will look like?

1) Drafting Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round: Not only did they blow a 2nd round pick on a kid who couldn’t play, but it was compounded by the fact that he didn’t draft Watson/Mahomes in large part because of blind hope that Hackenberg would develop. 
 

2) Trading up for Sam Darnold: To be fair I supported the trade and was happy to select Sam at three at the time of the draft. Hindsight 20-20 this was a bad move. The Jets were not in any position forfeit draft capital given the state of the roster, and Darnold does not look like he’s going to develop into a top tier QB worthy of the draft haul given up unfortunately. 
 

3) Drafting Quinnen Williams: It’s early in Quinnens career, but does anyone honestly believe he’s going to all off a sudden develop a pass rushing element to his game? He’s getting outplayed by UDFAs and 6th round draft picks. 
 

4) Darron Lee, Devin Smith, Jachai Polite, Lorenzo Mauldin, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen: Throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks type drafting 

5) Not addressing OL in the draft: The Jets consistently allocated more $ to the OL than any other team in the league under McCagnan. Instead of paying top dollar for lousy players (Beachum, Carpenter, Winters, Wesley Johnson, Spencer Long, Willie Colon) he should have addressed this need at the top of the draft. 

O line should be #1

Haskenberg # 2

Darnold was a great trade and doesn't belong on this list

Too early to put Quinnen Williams on this list

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jgb said:

All macc’s problems start with gutless drafting in the first round. He always went BAP as defined by consensus. Never banged the table for “his guy,” consensus be damned and put his own ass on the line for something he believed in. Just waited to see who fell and then took him. It was basically auto draft.

Then, because he took these “BAP” guys at low impact positions (maybe that’s why “the best player in the draft” always fell to us, hm?) he was forced to chase need in later rounds. His strategy here was to take injured guys or guys who had very checkered/inconsistent resumes to try to “find 1st round talent in the X round.” Any GM will fail much more often than he wins pursuing such a strategy.

Then of course bad drafts = playing the FA game. The Jets were rated the least prepared in negotiations of all NFL teams by agents. If you stink and the draft, and you stink at negotiating with FAs...

what would you say you do here office space GIF

And yet the Johnson brothers gave the guy 5...yes 5...Drafts.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/7/2019 at 11:29 AM, Matt39 said:

Trumaine Johnson is probably #1.

1.  Hackenberg

2.  Jamal over Watson/Mahomes

3.  Trumaine

4.  Nathan Shepherd over Best OL

5.  Darron Lee

 

Honorable mention:  Jachai Polite; doubling down on veteran QB's Fitzpatrick and McCown rather than "sinking or swimming" with young guys; ArDarius Stewart; Chad Hansen; Lorenzo Mauldin; Quinnen Williams; not trading Leonard Williams at peak value; not trading Muhammad Wilkerson at peak value.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using 3 first round picks with 2 extremely high picks on 2 DT and undersized LB. We had 6 undrafted players playing on defense yesterday and 3 of them being DT and 2 being LBs.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/7/2019 at 11:25 AM, RonaldJet said:

Obviously

Maccagnan passed on three players who will be MVP finalists this year to draft a strong safety. Two of those players are franchise quarterbacks who are both light years better than the quarterback he was forced to trade four picks for the following season. And Josh McCown was his quarterback when he passed on Mahomes and Watson to draft a strong safety who picks off passes at a rate usually reserved for nose tackles.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  



Content Partnership

Yes Network

Site Sponsor

MILE-Social - NJ Social Media & SEO company
×
×
  • Create New...