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JOJOTOWNSELL

Sam will get the win against Lamar

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9 hours ago, Maxman said:

Without Jamal Adams I wouldn't even pray for a miracle on Thursday night personally.

 

28 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

If Adams plays the Jets will have an outside chance

 

lol.  As if Jamal Adams would help stop Lamar Jackson.  Lamar would side step those A-gap blitzes with the same effort he would need for pre-game stretches.  

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1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The arguments people make about Adams positional value are reasonable and makes sense.

If you want to start pretending he isn't very good at what he does, I'm going to have to start questioning whether you're just a hater.

Adams is a big part of why we were the best run defense in the league. He is a great weapon to have against the leagues most potent rushing attack. He wouldn't be able to shut down Lamar but he'd probably be a big help in slowing him down. 

 

He'd play an important role in shutting down Mark Ingram.  Not Lamar Jackson.  You need to be an elite athlete to stop Lamar Jackson or even "contain" him.  Jamal is not an elite athlete, no matter how many positives you want to list off about him.  

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2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Shutting down Ingram helps to contain Jackson because of how that offense works. It's a powerful downhill rushing attack with a bunch of counter action and option built off of it. 

If Ingram isn't getting his yards the rest of the action off it becomes less effective.

Not only would Adams help containing the run, I could see him being used as a spy on Jackson in passing situations. 

Any chance he plays Thursday?

 

That's just it:  Jamal wouldn't make an effective spy against Lamar.  

I agree that shutting down Ingram is big when it comes to their planned college-style run plays.  But that has nothing to do with Lamar taking off when no one is open.  That's where we'll have no answer for Lamar whether Jamal plays or not.  Lamar will be able to get first downs just about whenever he feels like it.   

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7 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Claiming that an AllPro level safety isn’t an elite athlete isn’t being reasonable however.

It's absolutely reasonable, because the numbers say that is the case. 

 

jamal-adams1.png

 

 

148 out of 343 qualifying SS's.  He hasn't made it to a 2nd team All-Pro on his athletic gifts.  That's 100 % a true statement.  

It bears out on tape too, where he's constantly a step slow in coverage, especially on throws over the middle where he's in "2 deep" coverage.  

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1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

In my opinion, anyone who makes it to the professional level in any sport is an elite athlete.

Well of course I was talking about elite athletes AMONGST NFL PLAYERS.  Yes, Jamal Adams is elite compared to me.  No, Jamal Adams is not complete compared to Strong Safeties.  Even less so when compared to the best overall defensive players in the game. 

Adams has serious shortcomings when compared to other more athletic players that will greatly impact his ability to "move the needle" for a team.  Anything positive that can be said about Adams is about his work ethic, motor, and instincts.  

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4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I also would argue the fact that he’s overcome what you’ve shown aren’t the best “measurables” a player can have, an still become one of the better players in the league, speaks very highly to his athleticism.

No, it really doesn't.  It speaks well to everything BUT his athleticism.  You are what you are as a pure athlete.  And the numbers I posted matter a lot.  That's been proven time and again to matter.

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25 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Maybe I’m not explaining myself well here.

As I said in my first reply, I have no problem with any of the arguments people here have about Adams value to the Jets as a safety. In fact, I agree with almost all of them.

My point was you shouldn’t have said he isn’t an elite athlete.

You countered by showing how he fared when compared against other elite athletes in different measurables.You argue that proves he isn’t an elite athlete. 

My argument was he is definitely an elite athlete. He’s performing at the highest level possible (the NFL). His “total package” has at the very least made him an all pro level player, his peers have voted for him to support that view, and he is at the very worst our most valuable trading chip.

Call him brash, call him a loudmouth, complain about his pass coverage skills, etc, that’s all fair. Saying he isn’t an elite athlete isn’t.

 


I don't know how to make this more clear.  Any NFL player is an elite athlete compared to normal people.  Compared to other NFL players, Jamal Adams is an average athlete.  

You seem to be trying to re-frame the definition of athlete here.  Like, you're trying to mesh "athlete" and "football player" or something.  Whatever you're saying, it's not correct.  Athleticism has to do with things you can do with your body.  In this area Jamal Adams has serious limitations compared to his peers.  

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6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

And I think you’re simply refusing to admit you were wrong saying “Adams isn’t an elite athlete”.

The fact that he’s in the NFL proves he’s an elite athlete. Forget the fact he’s excelling.

Argue anything else you want about him. Being good enough to play a sport professionally is enough to define someone as an elite athlete.

Just admit to yourself you over reacted by saying it, and move on.

 

 

No, I didn't overreact.  Because you're still trying to put words in my mouth.  Saying a guy isn't an elite athlete COMPARED TO THE AVERAGE PERSON is not at all what I was talking about.  Your refusal to understand what I am saying does not put the onus on me to change what I am saying.  What I said was accurate. 

What you're saying, that Jamal is an elite athlete by the mere fact that he's in the NFL, is also accurate, but its not at all the point I was trying to make.  Don't move the goalposts and maybe we can have an actual discussion here.  

# 148 out of 343 Strong Safeties in the 2017 class.  In no Universe is that an elite athlete WHEN COMPARED TO other Safeties or great Defensive Players in the NFL.  

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9 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

 

Your post. Your words. 

Im not moving goal posts.

And that is correct.  He's not an elite athlete compared to his peers.  Lamar Jackson is.  Your inability to understand context is not my problem. 

I never once intended to state that Jamal is not elite compared to non-NFL players.  In what world would anyone but you not understand what I was saying there?

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