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JOJOTOWNSELL

Sam will get the win against Lamar

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1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The arguments people make about Adams positional value are reasonable and makes sense.

If you want to start pretending he isn't very good at what he does, I'm going to have to start questioning whether you're just a hater.

Adams is a big part of why we were the best run defense in the league. He is a great weapon to have against the leagues most potent rushing attack. He wouldn't be able to shut down Lamar but he'd probably be a big help in slowing him down. 

 

He'd play an important role in shutting down Mark Ingram.  Not Lamar Jackson.  You need to be an elite athlete to stop Lamar Jackson or even "contain" him.  Jamal is not an elite athlete, no matter how many positives you want to list off about him.  

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32 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Thursday nights game is the biggest game of Sam Darnolds career and a huge game for the jets franchise moving forward.  The Jets dont have to win this game, but Sam Darnold needs to make plays and look like a franchise qb.  

id say 280 yards 2 tds, heck ill even give him 2 picks and I would be ok with that.  And those have to be non garbage time stats.

If this guy goes out there and has happy feet, panics and looks skiddish, sees and feels pressure when it isnt there, we are in huge trouble moving forward.  There will be legitimate questions if Sam Darnold is the guy.

Yeah, if the Jets looked respectable, I'd be happy and if they somehow won, I would consider it like winning the Super Bowl. With that said, I am not getting my hopes up at all for this game, in fact I am going in expecting to get destroyed, because that will hopefully make getting destroyed a little easier. 

My prediction isn't based on Sam or Gase only, it is based on the entire team. Our defense hasn't looked good for a few weeks and will get shredded for at least 24 points and our offense has not looked great either, and we all know the Ravens will blitz the entire game leaving us with nothing. 

Is there some weird stat out there about the Ravens that I can bet on them breaking this week? 

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20 hours ago, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

I have a weird feeling Sam is gonna show Lamar why he was drafted almost 30 spots ahead of him. Jets moneyline all in

Here's my hunch, Ravens 47 jets 0.   Sam gets sacked 9 times, throws 3 picks and fumbles twice, we wont make it into Raven territory the entire game.

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He'd play an important role in shutting down Mark Ingram.  Not Lamar Jackson.  You need to be an elite athlete to stop Lamar Jackson or even "contain" him.  Jamal is not an elite athlete, no matter how many positives you want to list off about him.  

Shutting down Ingram helps to contain Jackson because of how that offense works. It's a powerful downhill rushing attack with a bunch of counter action and option built off of it. 

If Ingram isn't getting his yards the rest of the action off it becomes less effective.

Not only would Adams help containing the run, I could see him being used as a spy on Jackson in passing situations. 

Any chance he plays Thursday?

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2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Shutting down Ingram helps to contain Jackson because of how that offense works. It's a powerful downhill rushing attack with a bunch of counter action and option built off of it. 

If Ingram isn't getting his yards the rest of the action off it becomes less effective.

Not only would Adams help containing the run, I could see him being used as a spy on Jackson in passing situations. 

Any chance he plays Thursday?

 

That's just it:  Jamal wouldn't make an effective spy against Lamar.  

I agree that shutting down Ingram is big when it comes to their planned college-style run plays.  But that has nothing to do with Lamar taking off when no one is open.  That's where we'll have no answer for Lamar whether Jamal plays or not.  Lamar will be able to get first downs just about whenever he feels like it.   

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

That's just it:  Jamal wouldn't make an effective spy against Lamar.  

I agree that shutting down Ingram is big when it comes to their planned college-style run plays.  But that has nothing to do with Lamar taking off when no one is open.  That's where we'll have no answer for Lamar whether Jamal plays or not.  Lamar will be able to get first downs just about whenever he feels like it.   

We can disagree on that one. I wouldn't be shocked if I was wrong - Lamar is a special athlete. My opinion is Adams could limit (not shut him down) him as a spy.

Hopefully we get a chance to see it.

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42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 Jamal is not an elite athlete, no matter how many positives you want to list off about him.  

Come on, 80. You’re better then this.

I get the argument about positional value.

I understand when people say he talks too much, or they want to trade him for picks.

Those are reasonable opinions. Claiming that an AllPro level safety isn’t an elite athlete isn’t being reasonable however.

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7 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Claiming that an AllPro level safety isn’t an elite athlete isn’t being reasonable however.

It's absolutely reasonable, because the numbers say that is the case. 

 

jamal-adams1.png

 

 

148 out of 343 qualifying SS's.  He hasn't made it to a 2nd team All-Pro on his athletic gifts.  That's 100 % a true statement.  

It bears out on tape too, where he's constantly a step slow in coverage, especially on throws over the middle where he's in "2 deep" coverage.  

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He is an elite athlete for a safety.  But no elite safety is containing lamar jackson.  He would shake jamal adams out of his boots.

That being said, jamal adams would be insane to play another snap of football until he is the highest paid safety in the league.

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's absolutely reasonable, because the numbers say that is the case. 

 

jamal-adams1.png

 

 

148 out of 343 qualifying SS's.  He hasn't made it to a 2nd team All-Pro on his athletic gifts.  That's 100 % a true statement.  

It bears out on tape too, where he's constantly a step slow in coverage, especially on throws over the middle where he's in "2 deep" coverage.  

Good retort. I give you props for having numbers to support your opinion, I guess we just look at athletes differently.

In my opinion, anyone who makes it to the professional level in any sport is an elite athlete. When a player not only does that, but reaches an all star level, I think by definition, he removes any doubt about his “elite athletic ability”.

Does that mean every all pro is a “5 tool player”? I’m using a baseball term, but you get my point, I hope.

I also would argue the fact that he’s overcome what you’ve shown aren’t the best “measurables” a player can have, an still become one of the better players in the league, speaks very highly to his athleticism.

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1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

In my opinion, anyone who makes it to the professional level in any sport is an elite athlete.

Well of course I was talking about elite athletes AMONGST NFL PLAYERS.  Yes, Jamal Adams is elite compared to me.  No, Jamal Adams is not complete compared to Strong Safeties.  Even less so when compared to the best overall defensive players in the game. 

Adams has serious shortcomings when compared to other more athletic players that will greatly impact his ability to "move the needle" for a team.  Anything positive that can be said about Adams is about his work ethic, motor, and instincts.  

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4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I also would argue the fact that he’s overcome what you’ve shown aren’t the best “measurables” a player can have, an still become one of the better players in the league, speaks very highly to his athleticism.

No, it really doesn't.  It speaks well to everything BUT his athleticism.  You are what you are as a pure athlete.  And the numbers I posted matter a lot.  That's been proven time and again to matter.

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15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No, it really doesn't.  It speaks well to everything BUT his athleticism.  You are what you are as a pure athlete.  And the numbers I posted matter a lot.  That's been proven time and again to matter.

Maybe I’m not explaining myself well here.

As I said in my first reply, I have no problem with any of the arguments people here have about Adams value to the Jets as a safety. In fact, I agree with almost all of them.

My point was you shouldn’t have said he isn’t an elite athlete.

You countered by showing how he fared when compared against other elite athletes in different measurables.You argue that proves he isn’t an elite athlete. 

My argument was he is definitely an elite athlete. He’s performing at the highest level possible (the NFL). His “total package” has at the very least made him an all pro level player, his peers have voted for him to support that view, and he is at the very worst our most valuable trading chip.

Call him brash, call him a loudmouth, complain about his pass coverage skills, etc, that’s all fair. Saying he isn’t an elite athlete isn’t.

 

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1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

Maybe I’m not explaining myself well here.

As I said in my first reply, I have no problem with any of the arguments people here have about Adams value to the Jets as a safety. In fact, I agree with almost all of them.

My point was you shouldn’t have said he isn’t an elite athlete.

You countered by showing how he fared when compared against other elite athletes in different measurables.You argue that proves he isn’t an elite athlete.

My argument was he is definitely an elite athlete. He’s performing at the highest level possible (the NFL). His “total package” has at the very least made him an all pro level player, his peers have voted for him to support that view, and he is at the very worst our most valuable trading chip.

Call him brash, call him a loudmouth, complain about his pass coverage skills, etc, that’s all fair. Saying he isn’t an elite athlete isn’t.

 

Correct.  You are confusing the term athletic and athlete.  You can say he might not be as athletic as his peers, but being an athlete is far more then just athletics.

Athletics is about 50% of what constitutes ad athlete.  The other 50% is mental(anticipation, understanding, smarts, ability to diagnose whats going on, how fast you process information) etc.

He is an elite athlete, he just might not have elite athleticism.

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The Ravens are going to do whatever they want vs. the Jets, and that's just fine.  As long as Sammy D doesnt poopoo himself vs. that Defense and puts up a respectable effort, getting blown out by the Ravens and having Lamar run wild is really not a big deal.  

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

The Ravens are going to do whatever they want vs. the Jets, and that's just fine.  As long as Sammy D doesnt poopoo himself vs. that Defense and puts up a respectable effort, getting blown out by the Ravens and having Lamar run wild is really not a big deal.  

Correct.  Thursday night is about Sam Darnold showing us that he has grown and improved as a qb.

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21 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Only difference between Sam Darnold and Lamar Jackson is Sam Darnold is afraid to run Lamar Jackson isn't. 

Sounds more like the start of a very long list. 

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4 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Correct.  Thursday night is about Sam Darnold showing us that he has grown and improved as a qb.

You say that every week. Its getting old. 

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25 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Maybe I’m not explaining myself well here.

As I said in my first reply, I have no problem with any of the arguments people here have about Adams value to the Jets as a safety. In fact, I agree with almost all of them.

My point was you shouldn’t have said he isn’t an elite athlete.

You countered by showing how he fared when compared against other elite athletes in different measurables.You argue that proves he isn’t an elite athlete. 

My argument was he is definitely an elite athlete. He’s performing at the highest level possible (the NFL). His “total package” has at the very least made him an all pro level player, his peers have voted for him to support that view, and he is at the very worst our most valuable trading chip.

Call him brash, call him a loudmouth, complain about his pass coverage skills, etc, that’s all fair. Saying he isn’t an elite athlete isn’t.

 


I don't know how to make this more clear.  Any NFL player is an elite athlete compared to normal people.  Compared to other NFL players, Jamal Adams is an average athlete.  

You seem to be trying to re-frame the definition of athlete here.  Like, you're trying to mesh "athlete" and "football player" or something.  Whatever you're saying, it's not correct.  Athleticism has to do with things you can do with your body.  In this area Jamal Adams has serious limitations compared to his peers.  

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What do you guys think more sacks by the ravens defense or more touchdowns by the ravens offense??

I am thinking about 6 sacks for the ravens D and 5tds by the offense.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:


I don't know how to make this more clear.  Any NFL player is an elite athlete compared to normal people.  Compared to other NFL players, Jamal Adams is an average athlete.  

You seem to be trying to re-frame the definition of athlete here.  Like, you're trying to mesh "athlete" and "football player" or something.  Whatever you're saying, it's not correct.  Athleticism has to do with things you can do with your body.  In this area Jamal Adams has serious limitations compared to his peers.  

And I think you’re simply refusing to admit you were wrong saying “Adams isn’t an elite athlete”.

The fact that he’s in the NFL proves he’s an elite athlete. Forget the fact he’s excelling.

Argue anything else you want about him. Being good enough to play a sport professionally is enough to define someone as an elite athlete.

Just admit to yourself you over reacted by saying it, and move on.

 

 

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22 hours ago, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

I have a weird feeling Sam is gonna show Lamar why he was drafted almost 30 spots ahead of him. Jets moneyline all in

As stated, I want to see a Jets defender really lay the wood on Lamar.  Knock his $hit loose !!!

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6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

And I think you’re simply refusing to admit you were wrong saying “Adams isn’t an elite athlete”.

The fact that he’s in the NFL proves he’s an elite athlete. Forget the fact he’s excelling.

Argue anything else you want about him. Being good enough to play a sport professionally is enough to define someone as an elite athlete.

Just admit to yourself you over reacted by saying it, and move on.

 

 

No, I didn't overreact.  Because you're still trying to put words in my mouth.  Saying a guy isn't an elite athlete COMPARED TO THE AVERAGE PERSON is not at all what I was talking about.  Your refusal to understand what I am saying does not put the onus on me to change what I am saying.  What I said was accurate. 

What you're saying, that Jamal is an elite athlete by the mere fact that he's in the NFL, is also accurate, but its not at all the point I was trying to make.  Don't move the goalposts and maybe we can have an actual discussion here.  

# 148 out of 343 Strong Safeties in the 2017 class.  In no Universe is that an elite athlete WHEN COMPARED TO other Safeties or great Defensive Players in the NFL.  

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

No, I didn't overreact.  Because you're still trying to put words in my mouth.  Saying a guy isn't an elite athlete COMPARED TO THE AVERAGE PERSON is not at all what I was talking about.  Your refusal to understand what I am saying does not put the onus on me to change what I am saying.  What I said was accurate. 

What you're saying, that Jamal is an elite athlete by the mere fact that he's in the NFL, is also accurate, but its not at all the point I was trying to make.  Don't move the goalposts and maybe we can have an actual discussion here.  

# 148 out of 343 Strong Safeties in the 2017 class.  In no Universe is that an elite athlete WHEN COMPARED TO other Safeties or great Defensive Players in the NFL.  

 

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 You need to be an elite athlete to stop Lamar Jackson or even "contain" him.  Jamal is not an elite athlete, no matter how many positives you want to list off about him.  

Your post. Your words. 

Im not moving goal posts.

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9 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

 

Your post. Your words. 

Im not moving goal posts.

And that is correct.  He's not an elite athlete compared to his peers.  Lamar Jackson is.  Your inability to understand context is not my problem. 

I never once intended to state that Jamal is not elite compared to non-NFL players.  In what world would anyone but you not understand what I was saying there?

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

And that is correct.  He's not an elite athlete compared to his peers.  Lamar Jackson is.  Your inability to understand context is not my problem.  

Okay. I think we’re done here. We’re going in circles, and nothing good is going to come of it at this point.

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1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick, who is about as slow as me, ran for 60+ yards vs the Jets D.

Lamar may get 250 yards. 

First of all Ryan Fitzpatrick is not slow and he has always run the ball effectively in big situations did you not watch him play vs the Jets and for the Jets in the past ?

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

The Ravens are going to do whatever they want vs. the Jets, and that's just fine.  As long as Sammy D doesnt poopoo himself vs. that Defense and puts up a respectable effort, getting blown out by the Ravens and having Lamar run wild is really not a big deal.  

Im banking on Sam crapping his pants just like he has done vs every pressure situation he's ever been in.  The Ravens pressure everyone the Jets as you know will be no different. Back foot Sam will be back with a vengeance the same Sam that could not even sustain drives at home vs the Dolphins

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Just now, Smashmouth said:

Im banking on Sam crapping his pants just like he has done vs every pressure situation he's ever been in.  The Ravens pressure everyone the Jets as you know will be no different. Back foot Sam will be back with a vengeance the same Sam that could not even sustain drives at home vs the Dolphins

He just took the lead twice in the 4th quarter pressure situation but I appreciate your optimism!

 

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23 hours ago, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

I have a weird feeling Sam is gonna show Lamar why he was drafted almost 30 spots ahead of him.

Love your enthusiasm! Honest question... Is Lamar sitting out the game?

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