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2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

The only person who has a narrative here is Cannizzaro, who literally wrote a narrative in which he picked and chose which plays to include.

Realization that newspapers are a dying medium, and he has points to make up to the franchise for his pro-Herm agenda post trade to Chiefs.

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Just now, Bugg said:

Except it wasn't an "awful call", it was PI. Defender grabbed and impeded  the receiver. And really Jets have been getting screwed all year. last week 10-2 in penalties, and yesterday got a total nonsense RTP. 

We will never know if the pass was completed how the game plays out. 

YOU DO CALL IT AT THE END OF THE GAME. The reason the NFL has the replay , mismanaged as it is, is because exactly of PI not being called in the NFC championship game last season. This was no different, except the reply worked in the Jets' favor. 

Look what the NFL did. They conditioned a set of fans early in the year that true pass interference is not truly pass interference and that game was called just fine. Turned them into a bunch of zombies.

That Roger Goodell is good, man.

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9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well that's a big reason why you simply don't draft guys who lack experience at the collegiate level.  It's usually a death knell for a prospect's chances of making it in the NFL.  Hopefully Darnold is the exception, not the rule.  He was my favorite prospect in 2018 so obviously I think/hope he is the guy. 

But people need to stop making excuses based on his age and experience.  That's no longer valid in year 2 at the pro level.  

Look at the start of the careers of Troy Aikman, John Elway, Steve Young, Peyton Manning.

 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The NFL in 1999 was a completely different game my man.  

Compare Sam to his contemporaries, not QB's from 20+ seasons ago.  

People are people. Maturation is maturation. Game assimilation is game assimilation.

Are you saying young players cannot evolve any longer? And that some assimilate the game differently?

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3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't think Darnold play horrible yesterday but you're starting to sound a lot like apologists of Jets QB's past.

The 2nd half was a huge disappointment from my couch perspective.

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm saying that there are certain red flags with Darnold that could suggest his ceiling is limited and his floor is low.  For every QB that turned into a true franchise guy after struggling for 1.5-2 seasons, there are dozens and dozens who never materialized into franchise QB's.

So, your'e saying there is a chance?

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5 minutes ago, CTM said:

Going by the eye test of the average jets fan hes top 3. Since DVOA rates Dak Prescot well this year, that proves stats are bunk and that the eye test >>> stats.

Plus Darnold beat Prescott heads up once so Darnold >>>> Dak, and Dak is highly rated by the stats. By some demented misapplication of the transitive property Darnold is now highly rated by stats too.

Here is the really weird thing--Once the Cowboys acquired Amari Cooper, his stats seemed to elevate tremendously, post Cooper. 

 

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10 minutes ago, CTM said:

I'm not familiar enough with his history to comment however

1) he gets 6 games this year against a division that has gone complete dumpster fire

2) His stats were bad last year with cooper for most of year

3) David Carr seems the same post losing Cooper

4) 12 games does not a pattern make 

1). A QB cannot control what division he plays in, and certainly not the quality of opponents.

2). Not True: 2018 ( the year in which he was traded) stats here with and without:

Dak Prescott With and Without Amari Cooper:
Without: 3-4 W-L; 62.1 completion percentage; 202.4 passing YPG; 8-4 TD-INT ratio; 87.4 passer rating.
With: 5-1 W-L; 74.1 completion percentage; 285.7 passing YPG; 9-3 TD-INT ratio; 105.7 passer rating.

Since Cooper's arrival, Prescott hasn't been forced to throw the ball into as many tight windows.

Dak Prescott by Target Separation:
Without Cooper: 2.9 average target separation; 23.3 tight window throw percent
With Cooper: 3.7 average target separation; 14.2 tight window throw percent

3). Not talking about David Carr

4). What is the number of games that a pattern make?

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23 minutes ago, CTM said:

Disagree. I think there is such a thing and it manifests everytime he plays poorly. The response is well the coach, oline, rb, wr te, etc etc etc all suck and Darnold is fine/great.

How is it being a "Jets fan" to trash 1/2 the team in support of just 1 player? That's what that poster from USC did for a year before leaving because she was a Darnold fan only.

Why is it not being "a Jets fan" to say the young QB with crap mechanics who is inconsistent and turns the ball over a lot is a big part of the problem too? And maybe this same team with a better more consistant QB would be playing better ? That to me is supporting the Jets as a team rather than Darnold as a player.

I understand theres a lot of overlap but far too often people who critical of Darnold get accused of not being Jets fans (which has happenned numerous times in this very thread) when in reality they are defending more jets players 

No problem with anything that you say here and I have been up and down on Darnold, while still saying that he should be judged based on a larger set of criteria (games).

Just speaking for myself here, but my problem is that "fans" often get grouped in clumps on this site, with many saying in their arguments that "this how how Jet fans feel, and this is what they say".

And many times, I do not agree with that assessment as it applies to just me. Personally, I don't think it is an accurate assessment how necessarily a majority feel. Unless there is some type of poll taken that everyone participates in.

Trite feeling on my part, but there is a large amount of homogenization that takes place here regarding "fans", just to try to make someone's post seem stronger.

And no offense to the word homo.

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18 minutes ago, CTM said:

WIthout context of who he was playing that doesn't mean a lot, Look at Darnold this year first 1/2 vs 2nd half, it looks great until you look at the slat of defenses he faced 2nd 1/2 versus first.

Anyway, Dak nded up 19th in QBR last year, and was #4 in 2017 by that stat. Was Cooper magically helping him in 2017 all the way from Oakland?

At the very least you have to admit this undermines your point.

Lastly, I want to be clear Cooper is a great player and will help any QB. He's actually who I was praying we'd pick when we ended up with Williams and like the Jets to pursue him if he comes free. 

 

image.thumb.png.af160c74bd318e36ec45346ef9fd2a13.png

Oh, screw you. Now you are making me do research.

Here are the 6 regular season games that Cooper played with the Cowboys after acquisition and their rank of defense (by 2018 total points against--I know you probably hate that criteria, but again, screw you).

Redskins- 15th, Saints -14th, Eagles 12th, Colts 10th, Buccaneers- 31st, Giants 23rd.

With the exception of the outliers of Buccs and Giants he played against top 1/2 teams in the league ranked defenses.

Bottom line, Dak Prescott play was vastly improved with the acquisition of a top WR in the game, already with the fortunate of having a great o-line throughout the season. Does that mean that automatically happens for Darnold? No. But I would sure like to see him get the chance.

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Just now, CTM said:

The fact that his QBR isn't much different than it was in 2017 makes further digging kind of pointless. I'm not arguing that Cooper hasn't helped  Dak, I was saying that I don't think there's enough information available to unequivicolly say that Cooper made Dak. Given 2017 stats, I was wrong, there is enough information available and it shows that Cooper did not make Dak and he was represented well in stats prior.

Ok, now I will make you do leg work by applying some "geek" type criteria ;). 

I do not know how the Cowboys team in 2017 compared to the 2018 team in terms of personnel that was there and was not there. Nor the quality of opponent they faced.

My analysis has shown the 2018 season in a vacuum, with the same personnel, pre and post Amari Cooper acquisition. Against generally fair defensive competition. That comparison shows a rather stark difference in how one WR changed the fortunes of the QB.

Does that mean it happens in every circumstance? No. But it can. 

Again, it would be nice to see Darnold afforded some of the luxuries that Dak (and other qbs) have.

As well, I think the same goes for Gase, as he should presumably have a bit more say into the type of offensive players that fit into his system.

Big year for both next year is needed with improvement that shuld be expected.

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