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8 hours ago, Warfish said:

The 30th (2018) and 27th (2019 so far) rated QB in the NFL.

You clearly get very angry when people are critical of Darnold in any way.

I'd just like to see top 10 performance and production to go with this top 10 hype.

Going by the eye test of the average jets fan hes top 3. Since DVOA rates Dak Prescot well this year, that proves stats are bunk and that the eye test >>> stats.

Plus Darnold beat Prescott heads up once so Darnold >>>> Dak, and Dak is highly rated by the stats. By some demented misapplication of the transitive property Darnold is now highly rated by stats too.

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28 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

If other opinions ruin your experience, the internet might not be for you.  I honestly don’t care at all what you or anyone else posts.  I read it, but I don’t put any stock into it.  

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29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's gotta get better about "throwing guys open" so those bad sacks don't happen.  Otherwise that just becomes an excuse on the level of Sanchez.  

He has to get better in a lot of areas. Criticizing Sam is fair. Your other post on hoping that Sam imrpoves but having concerns is good and fair.

Others are taking threads have nothing to do with Sam and derailing them. That is something we are working on stopping here.

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10 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Ok so I was going to respond to your other post. But this, wow.

So let's start with this don't call people out like you did in the other post.

People are absolutely allowed to believe whatever they feel about Sam Darnold. They can post it as well.

There are several posters that received private messages from me. We are working on people staying on topic and not derailing threads. There are people that have their minds made up on Sam Darnold.

There is one poster that is doing it that is a fake account, that is being dealt with. Other posters are being asked to stay on topic.

Sorry that you don't agree with the approach here. We've been doing this for 15 years and we're the biggest site for a reason. Heavy handed moderation shuts sites down.

Going to stick with the approach that got us here and we won't censor people because you don't agree with them.

 

Jeez Max, its your funeral.  This board won't survive another 6 months without taking the nico approach.  Sad that JN has to end like this.  

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33 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

The only person who has a narrative here is Cannizzaro, who literally wrote a narrative in which he included the plays that fit and ignored the ones that didn’t.

He started the article by saying it wasn't pretty. He didn't list every good play. He isn't the only one with a narrative.

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17 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

That's the deal. 

No that isn't the deal. There are plenty of people who have been critical of Donald that are making good points. Then there are also trolls that are posting the same drivel over and over and hijacking threads.

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5 minutes ago, CTM said:

Going by the eye test of the average jets fan hes top 3. Since DVOA rates Dak Prescot well this year, that proves stats are bunk and that the eye test >>> stats.

Plus Darnold beat Prescott heads up once so Darnold >>>> Dak, and Dak is highly rated by the stats. By some demented misapplication of the transitive property Darnold is now highly rated by stats too.

Here is the really weird thing--Once the Cowboys acquired Amari Cooper, his stats seemed to elevate tremendously, post Cooper. 

 

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1 hour ago, Butterfield said:

Darnold is average at best, and can’t overcome the dumpster fire game plans gase employs.  The sooner people realize that, the less disappointed they will be.  

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about other people's disappointments.

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10 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

 

And now, starting thursday night, he is going to sh!t the bed for 3 straight weeks.  And its going to be uglier then the ghosts game.

Im highly concerned about how bad he is going to be and wont be surprise at all if they come up w/ another “fake” injury so he doesnt have to get embarassed out there.

 

If this turns out like any of your other predictions, we're in good shape. 

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7 hours ago, Maxman said:

There is no such thing as being a Darnold homer. It is called being a Jets fan and people used to be allowed to root for the team without being called names.

Disagree. I think there is such a thing and it manifests everytime he plays poorly. The response is well the coach, oline, rb, wr te, etc etc etc all suck and Darnold is fine/great.

How is it being a "Jets fan" to trash 1/2 the team in support of just 1 player? That's what that poster from USC did for a year before leaving because she was a Darnold fan only.

Why is it not being "a Jets fan" to say the young QB with crap mechanics who is inconsistent and turns the ball over a lot is a big part of the problem too? And maybe this same team with a better more consistant QB would be playing better ? That to me is supporting the Jets as a team rather than Darnold as a player.

I understand theres a lot of overlap but far too often people who critical of Darnold get accused of not being Jets fans (which has happenned numerous times in this very thread) when in reality they are defending more jets players 

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11 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here is the really weird thing--Once the Cowboys acquired Amari Cooper, his stats seemed to elevate tremendously, post Cooper. 

 

I'm not familiar enough with his history to comment however

1) he gets 6 games this year against a division that has gone complete dumpster fire

2) His stats were bad last year with cooper for most of year

3) David Carr seems the same post losing Cooper

4) 12 games does not a pattern make 

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20 minutes ago, Maxman said:

He started the article by saying it wasn't pretty. He didn't list every good play. He isn't the only one with a narrative.

Ok, well here’s me starting out by saying the young QB leading a 4th quarter comeback is great, especially against a division rival, especially especially the Dolphins, who are the most loathsome professional sports franchise in existence. My narrative is solely that he also made a terrible play in a crucial situation that would have lost the game 90% of the time, and the only reason we fell into the 10% this time is because the officials decided to reverse a PI non-call for once. That’s all.

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11 hours ago, southtown24th said:

That Sam Darnold played "horrible" today is a complete and utter farce.

Did he play great? No.

Did he play good? No.

Did he play mediocre? Yes.

 

Discuss.  People are idiots.

The only thing that he should be judged by is this. When the game was on the line, did he get them where they needed to be? Yes. End of story. You can look at yards, completions, TDs and so on, but if a great performance goes toward a loss. wtf does it matter? Good job Sam. 

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3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

My narrative is solely that he also made a terrible play in a crucial situation that would have lost the game 90% of the time

i wonder what the Jet win % was before and after that play. they do do that, right? i mean, i have seen it live, but i dont know if they archive the whole chart...        intewesting

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1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Please show me where I said the Jets were going to make the playoffs this year.

I did a quick search, and apparently I am really bad at using search these days, because the results says you've only used the word "playoff" 8 times, which seems....not right.  :-k

On Feb. 5th of this year, in response to our friend Tom Shane, you said:

Quote

 

With Darnold making a big jump, I really feel like they will get off to a fast start and do the 10 and 6 thing. The schedule with so little travel is going to help.

Would be nice to end the playoff drought.

 

So, not quite a Namath-esque guarantee of playoffs :), fair enough, but seems pretty clear you thought they'd be better than 5 wins.  I did too, hence the disappointment.  I too thought Darnold would make a big jump.  Has he?  I don't think so but some do, fair enough.

In any event, I'll withdraw that comment, no stress.  It's deleted now.

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Brady was 19-36, 169 yards, 1TD/1INT, Rtg 63.3 last night. Just saying.

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27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Jeez Max, its your funeral.  This board won't survive another 6 months without taking the nico approach.  Sad that JN has to end like this.  

JN survived Geno, Sanchez and Pennington (and the debates on them).

It will survive Darnold (and the debates on him).

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1 minute ago, MaxAF said:

Brady was 19-36, 169 yards, 1TD/1INT, Rtg 63.3 last night. Just saying.

Brady and the Pats O is having a very poor year and are an obvious liability to that world class Defense.

If the Pats fail to advance in the playoffs, it'll be because of that Offense if nothing changes from now.

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1 minute ago, MaxAF said:

Brady was 19-36, 169 yards, 1TD/1INT, Rtg 63.3 last night. Just saying.

He was noticably worse last year and this year is just further dimiinishment of his skills. He'll still have a good game and /or run of games in him but he's done as an elite player

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7 minutes ago, CTM said:

3) David  Derek Carr seems the same post losing Cooper

Hard to parse for me...   He had 2 good years coinciding w/ Amari's arrival in 2015-16

Then s/p catastrophic leg injury.

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What?

I was responding to someone saying Dak has had great stats since Cooper. Since his stats last year weren't great I'm assuming he means this year, and since DVOA / Dak has been the focal point of the anti-stat'ers we only have 12 games to go on (until it's updated). 12 games isn't enough to say that Cooper alone has made Dak a darling of the statistical world

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10 minutes ago, CTM said:

I'm not familiar enough with his history to comment however

1) he gets 6 games this year against a division that has gone complete dumpster fire

2) His stats were bad last year with cooper for most of year

3) David Carr seems the same post losing Cooper

4) 12 games does not a pattern make 

1). A QB cannot control what division he plays in, and certainly not the quality of opponents.

2). Not True: 2018 ( the year in which he was traded) stats here with and without:

Dak Prescott With and Without Amari Cooper:
Without: 3-4 W-L; 62.1 completion percentage; 202.4 passing YPG; 8-4 TD-INT ratio; 87.4 passer rating.
With: 5-1 W-L; 74.1 completion percentage; 285.7 passing YPG; 9-3 TD-INT ratio; 105.7 passer rating.

Since Cooper's arrival, Prescott hasn't been forced to throw the ball into as many tight windows.

Dak Prescott by Target Separation:
Without Cooper: 2.9 average target separation; 23.3 tight window throw percent
With Cooper: 3.7 average target separation; 14.2 tight window throw percent

3). Not talking about David Carr

4). What is the number of games that a pattern make?

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2 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Hard to parse for me...   He had 2 good years coinciding w/ Amari's arrival in 2015-16

Then s/p catastrophic leg injury.

Thanks for the fix. He's currently 13 in DVOA, he was 13 in 2017 .

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23 minutes ago, CTM said:

Disagree. I think there is such a thing and it manifests everytime he plays poorly. The response is well the coach, oline, rb, wr te, etc etc etc all suck and Darnold is fine/great.

How is it being a "Jets fan" to trash 1/2 the team in support of just 1 player? That's what that poster from USC did for a year before leaving because she was a Darnold fan only.

Why is it not being "a Jets fan" to say the young QB with crap mechanics who is inconsistent and turns the ball over a lot is a big part of the problem too? And maybe this same team with a better more consistant QB would be playing better ? That to me is supporting the Jets as a team rather than Darnold as a player.

I understand theres a lot of overlap but far too often people who critical of Darnold get accused of not being Jets fans (which has happenned numerous times in this very thread) when in reality they are defending more jets players 

No problem with anything that you say here and I have been up and down on Darnold, while still saying that he should be judged based on a larger set of criteria (games).

Just speaking for myself here, but my problem is that "fans" often get grouped in clumps on this site, with many saying in their arguments that "this how how Jet fans feel, and this is what they say".

And many times, I do not agree with that assessment as it applies to just me. Personally, I don't think it is an accurate assessment how necessarily a majority feel. Unless there is some type of poll taken that everyone participates in.

Trite feeling on my part, but there is a large amount of homogenization that takes place here regarding "fans", just to try to make someone's post seem stronger.

And no offense to the word homo.

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9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Dak Prescott With and Without Amari Cooper:
Without: 3-4 W-L; 62.1 completion percentage; 202.4 passing YPG; 8-4 TD-INT ratio; 87.4 passer rating.
With: 5-1 W-L; 74.1 completion percentage; 285.7 passing YPG; 9-3 TD-INT ratio; 105.7 passer rating.

WIthout context of who he was playing that doesn't mean a lot, Look at Darnold this year first 1/2 vs 2nd half, it looks great until you look at the slate of defenses he faced 2nd 1/2 versus first.

Anyway, Dak ended up 19th in QBR last year, and was #4 in 2017 by that stat. Was Cooper magically helping him in 2017 all the way from Oakland?

At the very least you have to admit this undermines your point.

Lastly, I want to be clear Cooper is a great player and will help any QB. He's actually who I was praying we'd pick when we ended up with Williams and like the Jets to pursue him if he comes free. 

 

image.thumb.png.af160c74bd318e36ec45346ef9fd2a13.png

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1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

No problem with anything that you say here and I have been up and down on Darnold, while still saying that he should be judged based on a larger set of criteria (games).

Just speaking for myself here, but my problem is that "fans" often get grouped in clumps on this site, with many saying in their arguments that "this how how Jet fans feel, and this is what they say".

And many times, I do not agree with that assessment as it applies to just me. Personally, I don't think it is an accurate assessment how necessarily a majority feel. Unless there is some type of poll taken that everyone participates in.

Trite feeling on my part, but there is a large amount of homogenization that takes place here regarding "fans", just to try to make someone's post seem stronger.

And no offense to the word homo.

For sure, I made a post last week that the Darnold homer, Darnold haters and all the various strawmen should have a battle royal. My meaning was along the lines of what you say here. We are put into groups and then often the most extreme take from that group gets applied to the full group.

My post you quoted was simply pointing out that trashing the rest of the team to support Darnold is a weird "jets fan" litmus test.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Obviously. But the point is that you have to consider quality of competition when evaluating a quarterback (or a defense, or a coaching staff, or a team in general). I.e., Darnold going 20/36 for 270/2/1 at home against the Dolphins is pretty disappointing, but if he puts up an identical stat line in Baltimore, it would be pretty impressive.

Particularly when you are going to be using this information to inform future decisions on resource allocation.

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3 minutes ago, CTM said:

Particularly when you are going to be using this information to inform future decisions on resource allocation.

Future decisions on resource allocation:

  DEAR LORD PLEASE GET US AN OLINE!!!!!!

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17 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

i wonder what the Jet win % was before and after that play. they do do that, right? i mean, i have seen it live, but i dont know if they archive the whole chart...        intewesting

 

from pro football reference- it has data entry fields for what the Vegas line was, i entered -.5.5 as that was last one i heard

image.png.e2309215a0426e5add5abe242149a410.png

image.png

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18 minutes ago, CTM said:

WIthout context of who he was playing that doesn't mean a lot, Look at Darnold this year first 1/2 vs 2nd half, it looks great until you look at the slat of defenses he faced 2nd 1/2 versus first.

Anyway, Dak nded up 19th in QBR last year, and was #4 in 2017 by that stat. Was Cooper magically helping him in 2017 all the way from Oakland?

At the very least you have to admit this undermines your point.

Lastly, I want to be clear Cooper is a great player and will help any QB. He's actually who I was praying we'd pick when we ended up with Williams and like the Jets to pursue him if he comes free. 

 

image.thumb.png.af160c74bd318e36ec45346ef9fd2a13.png

Oh, screw you. Now you are making me do research.

Here are the 6 regular season games that Cooper played with the Cowboys after acquisition and their rank of defense (by 2018 total points against--I know you probably hate that criteria, but again, screw you).

Redskins- 15th, Saints -14th, Eagles 12th, Colts 10th, Buccaneers- 31st, Giants 23rd.

With the exception of the outliers of Buccs and Giants he played against top 1/2 teams in the league ranked defenses.

Bottom line, Dak Prescott play was vastly improved with the acquisition of a top WR in the game, already with the fortunate of having a great o-line throughout the season. Does that mean that automatically happens for Darnold? No. But I would sure like to see him get the chance.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm saying that there are certain red flags with Darnold that could suggest his ceiling is limited and his floor is low.  For every QB that turned into a true franchise guy after struggling for 1.5-2 seasons, there are dozens and dozens who never materialized into franchise QB's.

So his floor isn't Phillip Rivers?

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9 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

from pro football reference- it has data entry fields for what the Vegas line was, i entered -.5.5 as that was last one i heard

image.png.e2309215a0426e5add5abe242149a410.png

image.png

Then it really wasn't as big a deal as we thought.  

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