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3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Oh, screw you. Now you are making me do research.

Here are the 6 regular season games that Cooper played with the Cowboys after acquisition and their rank of defense (by 2018 total points against--I know you probably hate that criteria, but again, screw you).

Redskins- 15th, Saints -14th, Eagles 12th, Colts 10th, Buccaneers- 31st, Giants 23rd.

With the exception of the outliers of Buccs and Giants he played against top 1/2 teams in the league ranked defenses.

Bottom line, Dak Prescott play was vastly improved with the acquisition of a top WR in the game, already with the fortunate of having a great o-line throughout the season. Does that mean that automatically happens for Darnold? No. But I would sure like to see him get the chance.

The fact that his QBR isn't much different than it was in 2017 makes further digging kind of pointless. I'm not arguing that Cooper hasn't helped  Dak, I was saying that I don't think there's enough information available to unequivicolly say that Cooper made Dak. Given 2017 stats, I was wrong, there is enough information available and it shows that Cooper did not make Dak and he was represented well in stats prior.

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Just now, CTM said:

The fact that his QBR isn't much different than it was in 2017 makes further digging kind of pointless. I'm not arguing that Cooper hasn't helped  Dak, I was saying that I don't think there's enough information available to unequivicolly say that Cooper made Dak. Given 2017 stats, I was wrong, there is enough information available and it shows that Cooper did not make Dak and he was represented well in stats prior.

Ok, now I will make you do leg work by applying some "geek" type criteria ;). 

I do not know how the Cowboys team in 2017 compared to the 2018 team in terms of personnel that was there and was not there. Nor the quality of opponent they faced.

My analysis has shown the 2018 season in a vacuum, with the same personnel, pre and post Amari Cooper acquisition. Against generally fair defensive competition. That comparison shows a rather stark difference in how one WR changed the fortunes of the QB.

Does that mean it happens in every circumstance? No. But it can. 

Again, it would be nice to see Darnold afforded some of the luxuries that Dak (and other qbs) have.

As well, I think the same goes for Gase, as he should presumably have a bit more say into the type of offensive players that fit into his system.

Big year for both next year is needed with improvement that shuld be expected.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Jeez Max, its your funeral.  This board won't survive another 6 months without taking the nico approach.  Sad that JN has to end like this.  

Reminds me of JoneJet calling me out on Twitter. Saying "my business model was failing" and that JetNation was "going out of business".  He referenced jets insider as a successful model.

I was like oh really.

So then I re-tweeted his tweet and said JN is going out of business, office furniture for sale. He started getting a bunch of people on twitter blasting him so he seemed to back off after that lol.

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11 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The hidden beauty of Sam Darnold’s clutch Jets comeback

December 8, 2019 | 8:13pm

 

The finish was a good start.

If Sam Darnold is going to realize the lofty potential the Jets drafted him for at No. 3 overall in 2018, he’ll need more of what he delivered Sunday at MetLife Stadium: A clutch fourth-quarter comeback drive that sent the Jets home 22-21 winners.

It was not a work of art. The game, in fact, resembled a pillow fight at times between the tanking Dolphins, who are now 3-10, and the Jets, who are 5-8.

But the end result is all that matters.

And the way it was done — Darnold and the Jets taking over possession of the ball trailing 21-19 with 1:29 remaining in the game and no timeouts — can do nothing but boost the confidence of the young, developing quarterback when he steps under center for the next comeback opportunity.

“We work on that so much in the offseason and in practice and to be able to execute that in a real game is huge for our confidence,’’ Darnold, who finished 20 of 36 for 270 yards, two TDs and an INT, said.

 

 

Fourth-quarter comebacks have defined some of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game. Peyton Manning is the NFL’s all-time leader bringing his team back from a fourth-quarter deficit to win, having done it 54 times in his brilliant career.

image.gif.23dea447879851e141e748e2840c47a8.gif

 

The players who follow Manning on that stat sheet are no slouches themselves: Drew Brees has 50, Dan Marino 47, Tom Brady 44, Brett Favre 43, Ben Roethlisberger 42, John Elway 40 and Johnny Unitas 38.

The common denominator among those eight players: If they’re not already in the Hall of Fame, they’re headed there.

Sunday was the third such fourth-quarter comeback victory of Darnold’s young career, which is only 23 starts old.

He led the Jets to a 27-23 win over the Bills last season with the game-winning touchdown scored with 1:17 remaining. And he led the Jets to 10 fourth-quarter points earlier this season in a 34-27 win over the Giants.

The Jets’ all-time leader in fourth-quarter comeback victories is Joe Namath with nine. Ken O’Brien has eight, Vinny Testaverde five and Chad Pennington and Mark Sanchez each have four.

So, Darnold doesn’t have a large hill to climb in the Jets’ record books to overcome those players. And, if you listen to his teammates, you get the feeling that there will be plenty more to follow.

“He was in total control,’’ receiver Demaryius Thomas said.

“He was poised,’’ receiver Jamison Crowder said.

Enlarge Image  

“He treated it literally just like practice,’’ left tackle Kelvin Beachum said.

“Sam was the same as he was every other drive,’’ center Jonotthan Harrison said. “That’s a good thing about Sam — he doesn’t fluctuate with his personality and demeanor.’’

The comeback drive was ignited by a 37-yard pass play to receiver Vyncint Smith on the first play of the series to give the Jets a first down at the Miami 38-yard line. Other than Sam Ficken’s game-winning 44-yard field goal as time expired, it was the play of the game.

“That play was a game-changer for us,’’ Harrison said.

There was some nuanced hidden beauty to that play that accentuated Darnold’s development.

Two possessions earlier, Darnold had a third-and-6 pass intended for Crowder batted away by blitzing cornerback Nik Needham, forcing the Jets to punt and leading to a Dolphins drive that would end in a field goal to give them an 18-16 lead with 6:59 remaining in the game.

On that pivotal 37-yard Smith catch-and-run play, the Dolphins ran the same cornerback blitz with Needham charging from Darnold’s right and Darnold this time recognized it more quickly and got the ball out to Smith over the outstretched arms of Needham.

“He was alert, because they did that play before and [Darnold] didn’t see it and [Needham] batted it down,’’ Thomas said. “That’s big for him, especially for a young guy. It gives him more confidence. It makes him grow faster.’’

Another hidden nugget to the story is the fact that Darnold played against Needham in high school — Darnold at San Clemente in California and Needham, who’s a rookie this season, at Buena Park.

Harrison said Darnold recognizing that same Needham blitz play and beating it when it counted most “shows his maturity and it shows his potential.’’

Darnold has thrown nine TD passes to only two INTs in the Jets’ past five games, four of which have been wins.

“He’s a player,’’ Crowder said. “He’s a baller. And he’s only going to get better with experience. I’m excited to play alongside him. We’re going to go as far as he takes us

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Teammates, coaches, analysts all raving about Sam Darnold.

Jets fans, he sucks. 

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1 hour ago, CTM said:

Disagree. I think there is such a thing and it manifests everytime he plays poorly. The response is well the coach, oline, rb, wr te, etc etc etc all suck and Darnold is fine/great.

How is it being a "Jets fan" to trash 1/2 the team in support of just 1 player? That's what that poster from USC did for a year before leaving because she was a Darnold fan only.

Why is it not being "a Jets fan" to say the young QB with crap mechanics who is inconsistent and turns the ball over a lot is a big part of the problem too? And maybe this same team with a better more consistant QB would be playing better ? That to me is supporting the Jets as a team rather than Darnold as a player.

I understand theres a lot of overlap but far too often people who critical of Darnold get accused of not being Jets fans (which has happenned numerous times in this very thread) when in reality they are defending more jets players 

I was making a point, there is certainly such a thing as a Jets homer or a Darnold homer for sure. I guess what I really wanted to say is that not everyone who roots for the team is a blind homer. That seems to be the narrative for a few posters lately.

59 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Ok, well here’s me starting out by saying the young QB leading a 4th quarter comeback is great, especially against a division rival, especially especially the Dolphins, who are the most loathsome professional sports franchise in existence. My narrative is solely that he also made a terrible play in a crucial situation that would have lost the game 90% of the time, and the only reason we fell into the 10% this time is because the officials decided to reverse a PI non-call for once. That’s all.

This is fair, there are some posters that seem to be rooting against the Jets. That's all I am trying to vet out here, criticizing Darnold is certainly fine.

53 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I did a quick search, and apparently I am really bad at using search these days, because the results says you've only used the word "playoff" 8 times, which seems....not right.  :-k

On Feb. 5th of this year, in response to our friend Tom Shane, you said:

So, not quite a Namath-esque guarantee of playoffs :), fair enough, but seems pretty clear you thought they'd be better than 5 wins.  I did too, hence the disappointment.  I too thought Darnold would make a big jump.  Has he?  I don't think so but some do, fair enough.

In any event, I'll withdraw that comment, no stress.  It's deleted now.

Yeah, that isn't me saying the Jets are a playoff team. The Jets will end 8 and 8 this year, so I missed my hope of 10 wins by two games. After all these injuries and mono that isn't too bad.  Calm down, I am kidding on the 8 and 8 lol.

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6 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Yeah, that isn't me saying the Jets are a playoff team. The Jets will end 8 and 8 this year, so I missed my hope of 10 wins by two games. After all these injuries and mono that isn't too bad.  Calm down, I am kidding on the 8 and 8 lol.

tenor.gif?itemid=12026878

Almost made me nose-spit out my coffee, lol. 😂

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10 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Anyone wants to see what bad is watch Josh Allen today. He was dreadful. By the way Buffalo stopped the run and Baltimore outside of one splash play looked very very average. Jets can (but likely wont) win on Thursday

Also, it seems the narrative has become that Sam needs to essentially be perfect on every pass. Rodgers, Brady, even Mahomes made a LOT of bad throws today too, under/over thrown bad decisions, grounders, etc... Sam underthrows someone by afoot and he "sucks"

EDIT sorry @johnnysd I meant this reply to be for Max, not you. I quoted the wrong post.

@Maxman I didn’t think using the term “Darnold homers” was name calling. I used it there to refer to those who never see him doing anything wrong. I consider myself a Jets, Mets and Rangers “homer” so I didn’t think it was an insult. 

One question though. Is it ok when they call people who refer to a player’s performance differently then they do as “trolls”?

It’s your site, you make the rules. I think you’re a very fair guy about it also, so I’m more then willing to agree with them.

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3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Look at the start of the careers of Troy Aikman, John Elway, Steve Young, Peyton Manning.

 

I think many here don't watch or know anything other than the Jets many Qb's had to climb to the top and get their trophy.

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10 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

That guys another troll account, his shtick Is to get Jets fans rilled up on how bad Darnold is. Every thing is negative.

Except I’m not a troll account. Or never had one.  But I guess it’s okay to say that....using “troll” is acceptable. Calling someone that isn’t an insult.

Now you can go back to “trolling” Gase, who’s doing a great job btw.

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35 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

EDIT sorry @johnnysd I meant this reply to be for Max, not you. I quoted the wrong post.

@Maxman I didn’t think using the term “Darnold homers” was name calling. I used it there to refer to those who never see him doing anything wrong. I consider myself a Jets, Mets and Rangers “homer” so I didn’t think it was an insult. 

One question though. Is it ok when they call people who refer to a player’s performance differently then they do as “trolls”?

It’s your site, you make the rules. I think you’re a very fair guy about it also, so I’m more then willing to agree with them.

Okay so I have like 200 posts in the last 24 hours trying to get both sides of this to get along with each other. Name calling isn't anything we want here. 

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30 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Except I’m not a troll account. Or never had one.  But I guess it’s okay to say that....using “troll” is acceptable. Calling someone that isn’t an insult.

Now you can go back to “trolling” Gase, who’s doing a great job btw.

Image result for straight jackets

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2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

EDIT sorry @johnnysd I meant this reply to be for Max, not you. I quoted the wrong post.

@Maxman I didn’t think using the term “Darnold homers” was name calling. I used it there to refer to those who never see him doing anything wrong. I consider myself a Jets, Mets and Rangers “homer” so I didn’t think it was an insult. 

One question though. Is it ok when they call people who refer to a player’s performance differently then they do as “trolls”?

It’s your site, you make the rules. I think you’re a very fair guy about it also, so I’m more then willing to agree with them.

My take for what is worth is that criticism of any player, whether I agree or not is valid if it at least has a "take" or logical statement to back it up behind it, but the people that just incessantly say something like "Darnold sucks" or "Darnold is a bust" without any explanation are just annoying tolls.

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5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

My take for what is worth is that criticism of any player, whether I agree or not is valid if it at least has a "take" or logical statement to back it up behind it, but the people that just incessantly say something like "Darnold sucks" or "Darnold is a bust" without any explanation are just annoying tolls.

We are trying not to use words like trolls or homer anymore, Johnny.

 

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21 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

My take for what is worth is that criticism of any player, whether I agree or not is valid if it at least has a "take" or logical statement to back it up behind it, but the people that just incessantly say something like "Darnold sucks" or "Darnold is a bust" without any explanation are just annoying tolls.

Boom.

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2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Except I’m not a troll account. Or never had one.  But I guess it’s okay to say that....using “troll” is acceptable. Calling someone that isn’t an insult.

Now you can go back to “trolling” Gase, who’s doing a great job btw.

gaslight
/ˈɡaslʌɪt/
verb
gerund or present participle: gaslighting
  1. manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity.
    "in the first episode, Karen Valentine is being gaslighted by her husband"

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I just read through this thread and it's ironic because reading it, you would have thought Sam Darnold was 1-9, below 60%, more INT's than TD's and just losing games left and right for the Jets.

Instead he's 5-5,  63%, 15/11 and his team is absolute trash with extremely questionable coaching.

He more than likely will be 5-8 by the end of the season but if he somehow can keep his comp above 60% and get to 20/15, for roughly 250 per game,  wouldnt everyone have signed up for that type of progress?  I had this team 7-9 with everyone completely healthy and the offensive line playing at a professional level. 

 

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