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jetstream23

Week 14 QB performances and putting Darnold in perspective

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7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

mahomes also has hill and kelse, two all pros to throw to.  how often do you see these guys torching other teams.  then when a jet makes a play, some here discredit what darnold did to get him the ball.  darnold is not superman, he needs help here.  yesterday he didn't even have griffen or bell.  how many more people can they take away from his offense and he still goes 20-36 for 270 yards with 2 tds and a pick, and so many here are calling this a bad game.  i'm thrilled this is a bad game.  

Oh I agree.  Like I mentioned he has great talent around him and a great coach.  I’m not taking anything away from his talent BUT it makes things much much easier as a QB

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7 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Should we bring up Darnold's performance vs. the Pats for a better comparison? The Jets just played against a bottom third of the league pass D.

The Jets also used a Bottom Tenth of the league offensive roster to beat them.  Apples to apples, as some would say around here.

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7 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I'm going with the fact that it was one game, that Darnold wasn't horrible yesterday (as many have said), and that even excellent Quarterbacks have bad games.  He was very average yesterday.  In fact, he was exactly average as I think he was the 16th overall QB in Rating.  2 TDs, 1 INT, 270 yards and a win....but most of yesterday's game day thread was focused on missing WRs and throwing off the back foot.  Not that those latter things aren't important, they are.  But this is a 5-win Jets team and my commentary is more about a fan base that not only hates the losses we've had but that can't even enjoy a win anymore.  If Week 1's one-point loss to the Bills was a train wreck for our fans then yesterday's one-point win still seems like a car crash for some reason.  Sam made some mistakes and had some misses, he also won the game, had more TDs than INTs, and lead an offense that tried to run but still only averaged around 3.9 yards per carry for Powell.

I  think you nailed it right there.  can't bitch and moan about the 1-point loss in week one and then still be pi$$ed about yesterday!  Sam could not lead the GW drive in week one, and he did yesterday.  that is progress.  we have seen games where overall he played very well, but in crunch time, he could not get it done.  yesterday, he played very well in the first half and then had a bad second half (he was the first to admit it at the press conference afterwards) but he had two GW drives in the 4th quarter yesterday.  man, it felt like the texans game from last year:  Sam leads team down for a GW drive and then the defense just lets the opponent go right down and score.  difference is, this game, Sam marched the offense right back down the field again and won the game!

and I don't want to hear that it "was only the fins".  the fins that had beaten us 4 times in a row.  and that team that the Jets trotted out there yesterday should not be able to beat any professional football team.  I'm sorry.  the fact that we could win against anyone yesterday is a good thing.

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2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

their TE and rb esp. after griffen was hurt, were bottom 3 no doubt.  people expect miracles from darnold, perfect throw after throw after throw.  that OL throwing to robbie anderson, jamison crowder, demarious thomas, bilal powell and vincent smyth.  

On how many NFL teams would Bilal Powell have been RB1 yesterday?

On how many NFL teams would Robby Anderson have been WR1 yesterday?

On how many NFL teams would Ryan Griffin have been TE1 and then the team was forced to play 3+ Quarters without him?

How many NFL teams would be protecting their QB with guys like Jonathan Harrison and Tom Compton?

270 yards, 2TDs, 1 INT is almost a miracle vs. any team....even the Dolphins who were 3-2 in their past 5 coming into yesterday.

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8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The Jets also used a Bottom Tenth of the league offensive roster to beat them.  Apples to apples, as some would say around here.

The post I quoted was making that point, but then trying to compare Jets vs. Dolphins instead. You can't adjust one side of the equation without the other if you want to be honest with yourself and the people you're discussing with.

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9 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

When you factor in the opponent, the performance was at best disappointing. The Miami secondary is bad bad.

I considered the opponent and then I also considered the quality of the Jets team that beat them yesterday.  How do Eagles fans feel right now after losing to Miami last week?  You can only play who is on the schedule.  The Jets are 4-1 in the past 5 games.

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With the game on the line and less than two minutes to go, the Jets started on their own 25 yard line. They won.  Enough said.

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2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The post I quoted was making that point, but then trying to compare Jets vs. Dolphins instead. You can't adjust one side of the equation without the other if you want to be honest with yourself and the people you're discussing with.

It was a bad team that beat a bad team yesterday.  There's no doubt about it.  Seeing the Jets go 2-2 vs. Miami, Washington, Cincinnati and Miami again tells you exactly who the Jets are.  Whether the Jets won with or without Le’Veon Bell and Jamal Adams doesn't matter.  Whether 5 guys on the Jets offense won't be starters for any NFL team next year doesn't matter.  It is what it is.

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18 minutes ago, TMAC said:

With the game on the line and less than two minutes to go, the Jets started on their own 25 yard line. They won.  Enough said.

It was good to see the team and Darnold win that way. A positive sign going forward.

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If we want to see if Darnold can make a big step up to being a very good, consistent QB, then GET HIM A QUALITY OFFENSIVE LINE first, then get the microscopes out. He definitely has issues to work on, but he also needs a better run game and weekly pass protection in order to really get much better. I think he's still rushing things b/c of all the heavy pass rushes that he's faced this season.

The Jets need at least three new starters on the OL next year:  LT (draft round one), C (draft round 2-3), G (free agent? draft 4-5?).  Possible holdover starters?  Edoga (T or G) maybe, if he has a nice offseason.  Beachum maybe (for a year or two, maybe at RT). Lewis maybe at G. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I don't think it's brainwashing or announcers or Jets Fans being "haters".

Winning a single very close game vs one of the worst teams in the NFL being led by a mostly hated former jets QB was great.  Vastly better than losing it!  Being swept by the Fitz-led Dolphins, the 3-9 tanking Dolphins, would have been tragic and painful, hated rival that they are.

I think we just have two schools of thought right now on Darnold.  True believers and doubting questioners.  So far, seems like the true believers really hate the questioners for their doubts, and want them silenced here at JN as "trolls".  Believers see yesterday as a good thing. Questioners see it as a game we should and could have dominated, and didn't, mostly because of specific missed throws and opportunities by the QB.

But I'll say what I've said repeatedly:  Most questioners of Darnold do not want to cut him, or move on from him.  They (as I do) want to see more, and with a better supporting cast, especially at the O-line.  But they also want to see more from Sam himself, more consistency, better mechanics, better decision making.  Questioners don't think his being 22 or in his second year is as meaningful as believers do.  The job is the job, he has to do it and gets paid to do it, if he wasn't ready to do so (because he's too young or because he was a LB years ago), that's not an excuse.  He was picked #3 overall to play QB in the NFL right away.  Not to learn on the job for his entire rookie contract.

Make no mistake, there is a clock on Darnold.  At the end of his rookie deal, he is either resigned to a big dollar deal (limiting the team) or is cut loose (costing the team another draft pick to get another QB instead).  Year's 1 and 2 are effectively done now, wasted in terms of competition. 

We're going to be in year 3 of 5, facing what appears to be a full blown rebuild yet again.  We have two (maybe three) seasons of cheap Darnold left.  After more than a decade of the Jets being utterly noncompetitive, it's natural some fans are tired of the "well, in a few years maybe..." answers that we seem to get from believers every year around this time.  

It's amazing, as a fan base, we're all as sane and optimistic as we are.  

I consider myself neither a believer or a doubter. I am a hopeful. Sam has tools and the talent. I am hopeful he can put it all together.

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2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I think people are looking way too hard into every throw, every read, every decision that Darnold makes under a microscope. IMO, you need a macro approach to this thing right now and realize what the total situation is with this offense.  He’s going to miss throws, he’s going miss reads and he’s going to make a bad decision here and there.  It’s not like he went 11 for 28 125 yards 0TDs and 3 INTs.  When you factor in that this team hasn’t been able to run the ball and his receivers have catch radius’s of about one foot, it forces Darnold to have to be almost perfect with every throw in order for his receivers to make a completion.  

No, No not here on this board.

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The only thing that matters is the W. The Jets offense had a chance to go out and win the game and they did. Period. Teams sometimes get calls— and it was PI so it should have been called in the first place—happens every week.  Sam has struggled against Miami his entire career so I’ll take his performance this week, and hope it gets better next time they play. 

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8 minutes ago, Ken Schroy said:

I consider myself neither a believer or a doubter. I am a hopeful. Sam has tools and the talent. I am hopeful he can put it all together.

Apart from the actual trolls, I doubt you'll find one regular poster on this site who isn't hopeful. 

We all want Sam to be one of the best QB's in the NFL.  To lead us to playoff games.  To win a Super Bowl.  Doubter, Believer, and everywhere in-between, we all hope the guy we drafted is that guy.  

Lets be clear, no one dislikes Sam Darnold the person.  He's utterly likeable, says the right things, has all the right potential.  Likability isn't Sam's problem.  The biggest joke on Sam was the Mono and how he got it, that's kiddie stuff in terms of personal criticism of Jets QB's.  

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You’d seriously think, based upon some posters, that the Jets never went into a game with Kellen Clemens as the starter. Or Mark Sanchez. Or Brooks Bollinger. Or Quincy Carter. That the team has a two-decade long love affair with top tier QBs and fans have come to expect nothing but the best. 
 

Sam is not perfect. Not every throw is pin point accurate, or dropped into a bucket. He makes bad reads and can be inaccurate. I think we can all agree on that. But to ignore that he’s one of the best QB prospects to play for this team since its inception is ludicrous. It’s his first year in this system, and his line is the dregs of this league.  The team is usually better with him in there as opposed to not in there. There are times that he does elevate players around him and there are times that he needs those around him to pick up the slack. Whaddaya know, he’s a young player who’s playing a team sport.

 

For those who think the dude is some colossal mistake made by the organization, I offer you three words:  Geno-*******-Smith

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

that game felt like a loss because it essentially WAS a loss ... 

until that PI call magically came down from league office on high 

Sun Ra Robby put the team on his back last drive, and Sam started to play better but let's be real that game is a 21-18 loss without that crazy call  

Sure, and what is the game without the "crazy" roughing the passer on Fitzpatrick? There were questionable calls all over the field yesterday. 

Also, it was obviously PI. 

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4 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I think people are looking way too hard into every throw, every read, every decision that Darnold makes under a microscope. IMO, you need a macro approach to this thing right now and realize what the total situation is with this offense.  He’s going to miss throws, he’s going miss reads and he’s going to make a bad decision here and there.  It’s not like he went 11 for 28 125 yards 0TDs and 3 INTs.  When you factor in that this team hasn’t been able to run the ball and his receivers have catch radius’s of about one foot, it forces Darnold to have to be almost perfect with every throw in order for his receivers to make a completion.  

100%.  Everyone's an expert in today's social media age and everyone needs to make snap decisions and micro-analyze a game of imperfections on every single snap.  It's more overboard and outrageous than ever.  We literally have posters posting a clip of one play  throughout an entire season and acting as if that one play, shows how Darnold's a bust.  It's legit insane.

What I think is the most surprising and this thread illustrates it well, is how this board loves to make comparisons as if they pay attention to the rest of the league and point at what other players are doing.  Yet, when I watch other teams play, I see their QB's doing the stuff as Sam.  I will admit, I havent watched a ton of NFL this year (that will pick up now that college is over) but I have watched a ton the last 2 weeks.  Yesterday, I cant count the amount of under throws and off target throws that turned into TD's yesterday...so I'll just focus on the game with what are considered arguably the 2 best.  Mahomes vs. Brady.   First drive the Pats score; Brady under throws both his WR's.  Multiple times in the face of pressure, just threw up a lob off his back foot.  I watched Edelman make the play that Crowder couldnt when Darnold was late to the endzone at least 3 times.  His pick was a terrible decision.  The Mahomes pick was absolutely atrocious and it was an in rhythm play with no pressure.  His TD to Hardman, he was wide open and literally had to stop to catch the ball.   The amount of dump off yardage for both QB's was astounding...probably 100+ yards for both.  Both of them missed wide open easy throws with zero pressure.

Yet, our 22 year old QB needs to be perfect.  It's wild man. 

 

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3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I think people are looking way too hard into every throw, every read, every decision that Darnold makes under a microscope. IMO, you need a macro approach to this thing right now and realize what the total situation is with this offense.  He’s going to miss throws, he’s going miss reads and he’s going to make a bad decision here and there.  It’s not like he went 11 for 28 125 yards 0TDs and 3 INTs.  When you factor in that this team hasn’t been able to run the ball and his receivers have catch radius’s of about one foot, it forces Darnold to have to be almost perfect with every throw in order for his receivers to make a completion.  

Don't forget that he gets less time with this Oline than you would with most teams and he has to many times move and run much quicker than he should need to or want to. Yesterday some throws would have had a better chance had he not had to rollout so quick. I know he is good at throwing on the run, but for any QB sometimes it is hard to get the proper accurate throw on every throw in those cases. The steps ups in the pocket  usually are better since you are throwing moving north and not east and west that are sometimes off balance and lead to more innaccurate situations, like cross body and cross field throws. The step up in the pocket that he threw to Anderson was great.

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I player (or team) is never as good or bad as any play or game would indicate. It was meh. Also, no QB, is perfect on every play or every throw. Sam didn't have a great game yesterday, but it wasn't a really bad game either. I bet if you watch another game, then watch the Jets game, then watch another game all with the commentary off, you would be able to rate hist play better - even more so if you were to somehow obscure the jersey colors and numbers.

This is a lot like politics in the news, based on the commentator, you would always assume the guy they are propping up or knocking down was the extreme. Take Feely out of that game yesterday, I am not sure that so many fans would be down on Sam's performance.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

100%.  Everyone's an expert in today's social media age and everyone needs to make snap decisions and micro-analyze a game of imperfections on every single snap.  It's more overboard and outrageous than ever.  We literally have posters posting a clip of one play  throughout an entire season and acting as if that one play, shows how Darnold's a bust.  It's legit insane.

What I think is the most surprising and this thread illustrates it well, is how this board loves to make comparisons as if they pay attention to the rest of the league and point at what other players are doing.  Yet, when I watch other teams play, I see their QB's doing the stuff as Sam.  I will admit, I havent watched a ton of NFL this year (that will pick up now that college is over) but I have watched a ton the last 2 weeks.  Yesterday, I cant count the amount of under throws and off target throws that turned into TD's yesterday...so I'll just focus on the game with what are considered arguably the 2 best.  Mahomes vs. Brady.   First drive the Pats score; Brady under throws both his WR's.  Multiple times in the face of pressure, just threw up a lob off his back foot.  I watched Edelman make the play that Crowder couldnt when Darnold was late to the endzone at least 3 times.  His pick was a terrible decision.  The Mahomes pick was absolutely atrocious and it was an in rhythm play with no pressure.  His TD to Hardman, he was wide open and literally had to stop to catch the ball.   The amount of dump off yardage for both QB's was astounding...probably 100+ yards for both.  Both of them missed wide open easy throws with zero pressure.

Yet, our 22 year old QB needs to be perfect.  It's wild man. 

 

Agree.  When reading through the gameday thread people were killing Sam for that drop by DT when the ball was literally a foot behind his ear and went right through his hands.  I probably saw two dozen college kids make catches on balls thrown worse over the weekend.  There was even some dude claiming he played WR and was saying how “hard” of a catch it would have been....Lol.   Once we get some legit talent here maybe people realize that WRs can actually help the QB, because right now some people’s expectations are legit crazy. 

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4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agree.  When reading through the gameplay thread people were killing Sam for that drop by DT when the ball was literally a foot behind his ear and went right through his hands.  I probably saw two dozen college kids make catches on balls thrown worse over the weekend.  There was even some dude claiming he played WR and was saying how “hard” of a catch it would have been....Lol.   Once we get some legit talent here maybe people realize that WRs can actually help the QB, because right now some people’s expectations are legit crazy. 

Too funny, I was going to make a comment about college games too but figured you'd respond and then I could post this....I mean...it would totally suck if Sam had a guy like this to throw too...

 

 

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4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agree.  When reading through the gameday thread people were killing Sam for that drop by DT when the ball was literally a foot behind his ear and went right through his hands.  I probably saw two dozen college kids make catches on balls thrown worse over the weekend.  There was even some dude claiming he played WR and was saying how “hard” of a catch it would have been....Lol.   Once we get some legit talent here maybe people realize that WRs can actually help the QB, because right now some people’s expectations are legit crazy. 

watch redzone for a day and you realize how many wrs, rbs and TEs are making plays for their qbs.   so many here hold darnold to an unreasonable standard to be perfect on every throw, while extolling other qbs who get to throw to guys like tyreke hill, michael thomas and mike evans who can take any pass to the house.   

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Too funny, I was going to make a comment about college games too but figured you'd respond and then I could post this....I mean...it would totally suck if Sam had a guy like this to throw too...

 

 

Lol...I posted that video in the 2020 WR thread.  He’s EXACTLY what this team needs.  Plus I love how he acts after the play.  It’s no big deal.  He expects to make those plays. 

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Just now, sec101row23 said:

Lol...I posted that video in the 2020 WR thread.  He’s EXACTLY what this team needs. 

If we pick 8-10 we can probably have a shot at him.

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2 minutes ago, section314 said:

If we pick 8-10 we can probably have a shot at him.

I think he’s the perfect trade down target.  You could probably land him at 15-20.  

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3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I think he’s the perfect trade down target.  You could probably land him at 15-20.  

Possibly. He is really good. On another note, they did UVA no favors. They go from Clemson to playing the Gators.

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11 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

watch redzone for a day and you realize how many wrs, rbs and TEs are making plays for their qbs.   so many here hold darnold to an unreasonable standard to be perfect on every throw, while extolling other qbs who get to throw to guys like tyreke hill, michael thomas and mike evans who can take any pass to the house.   

I have 2 TV's in the mancave and it's always redzone/Jets.  It's wild the plays I see watching that channel at the same time was watching the Jets.  Guys wide open for TD's, dump off's going long or for TD's, amazing catches, incredible after the catch efforts....none of which we see with the Jets.  I'm working from home watching highlights today and seeing it all over again.  Half the highlights are amazing efforts you never see on the Jets. 

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4 minutes ago, section314 said:

Possibly. He is really good. On another note, they did UVA no favors. They go from Clemson to playing the Gators.

They don’t deserve to go to the Orange Bowl, but it’s the conference tie in game.  The ACC is just so bad right now.  They can’t keep a team ranked for more than one week.  They even let UVA keep a token 24th ranking after losing so badly just so they didn’t have an unranked team in such a big bowl game. 

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4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

On how many NFL teams would Bilal Powell have been RB1 yesterday?

On how many NFL teams would Robby Anderson have been WR1 yesterday?

On how many NFL teams would Ryan Griffin have been TE1 and then the team was forced to play 3+ Quarters without him?

How many NFL teams would be protecting their QB with guys like Jonathan Harrison and Tom Compton?

270 yards, 2TDs, 1 INT is almost a miracle vs. any team....even the Dolphins who were 3-2 in their past 5 coming into yesterday.

Darnoltology has arrived

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I have 2 TV's in the mancave and it's always redzone/Jets.  It's wild the plays I see watching that channel at the same time was watching the Jets.  Guys wide open for TD's, dump off's going long or for TD's, amazing catches, incredible after the catch efforts....none of which we see with the Jets.  I'm working from home watching highlights today and seeing it all over again.  Half the highlights are amazing efforts you never see on the Jets. 

even if you isolate the amount of plays that rbs make, you realize how badly the jets need a playmaker there instead of bell.  give me dobbins, give me the LSU rb, someone who can take a screen pass 30 yards.  how many tds on redzone are wrs outjumping dbs?  you watch this and realize that a really good wr is worth way more than adams, and why he's worth trading if you can get a good haul.

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4 hours ago, bitonti said:

that game felt like a loss because it essentially WAS a loss ... 

until that PI call magically came down from league office on high 

Sun Ra Robby put the team on his back last drive, and Sam started to play better but let's be real that game is a 21-18 loss without that crazy call 

and we can't count on the Jets getting crazy bail out calls from NY league office against decent opposition 

The league office was so obviously correct that it was pass interference that I don't know what your point is. The interference was real, obvious, and not even a close call. They got it right. 

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15 minutes ago, JiF said:

I have 2 TV's in the mancave and it's always redzone/Jets.  It's wild the plays I see watching that channel at the same time was watching the Jets.  Guys wide open for TD's, dump off's going long or for TD's, amazing catches, incredible after the catch efforts....none of which we see with the Jets.  I'm working from home watching highlights today and seeing it all over again.  Half the highlights are amazing efforts you never see on the Jets. 

How often do you chuckleheads see pro QB's arm throwing the ball despite the ability to step into it? 

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

I have 2 TV's in the mancave and it's always redzone/Jets.  It's wild the plays I see watching that channel at the same time was watching the Jets.  Guys wide open for TD's, dump off's going long or for TD's, amazing catches, incredible after the catch efforts....none of which we see with the Jets.  I'm working from home watching highlights today and seeing it all over again.  Half the highlights are amazing efforts you never see on the Jets. 

That's why I love the thread on the site "classic clips." You watch some of our teams from like 1981-86 and we had so much offensive talent compared to the crap we have run out there the last 5-6 years.

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33 minutes ago, CTM said:

How often do you chuckleheads see pro QB's arm throwing the ball despite the ability to step into it? 

If you're asking me if I see Qb's arm throw it with bad feet, then the answer is yes, all the time.

If you're saying that Sam doesnt have the ability to step into throws then I think you've just lost all credibility. 

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39 minutes ago, JiF said:

If you're asking me if I see Qb's arm throw it with bad feet, then the answer is yes, all the time.

If you're saying that Sam doesnt have the ability to step into throws then I think you've just lost all credibility. 

Doesn't have the ability to step into throws? Wtf does that even mean. I've seen him walk, i'm confident he can step

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