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THE BARON

Interesting Observation On Darnold... I think

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55 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

People keep saying this. Was it not actually pass interference by the rules?

Are these the same people that wanted to rename Thanksgiving?

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5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Gift PI? You think becaise an official got the call wrong and it was correctly reversed  on a review that it was a gift? 

league office decisions that decide the outcome of games are rare and possibly Divine like manna from heaven 

hell yes it was a gift 

what's the alternative? life is fair and this is how it's supposed to work? 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets traded 3 second rounders and Quenton Nelson for Sam Darnold. There's the new line WF. All the resources were poured into Sam. 

Nelson btw was a gold jacket player before the draft and everyone knew it 

the logic was a QB 1 would make everything better

unfortunately i spent an awful lot of time looking at the TV yesterday wondering if Fitzpatrick, quenton Nelson and 3 2nd rounders win more games 

Yeah, let's  have Nelson on the line and continue to start McKown. Im sure that would be way better.

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56 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets traded 3 second rounders and Quenton Nelson for Sam Darnold. There's the new line WF. All the resources were poured into Sam. 

Nelson btw was a gold jacket player before the draft and everyone knew it 

the logic was a QB 1 would make everything better

unfortunately i spent an awful lot of time looking at the TV yesterday wondering if Fitzpatrick, quenton Nelson and 3 2nd rounders win more games 

Probably not, because Fitzpatrick has never won jack sh*t and never will. But as the late Miss Lonelyhearts pointed out, it's hard not to play what-if with all those premium picks rebuilding a roster around Teddy Bridgewater.

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Guy throws for over 200 yards with 2tds and 1 int and leads a game winning drive

because he missed a few throws he stinks. This fan base....

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

league office decisions that decide the outcome of games are rare and possibly Divine like manna from heaven 

hell yes it was a gift 

what's the alternative? life is fair and this is how it's supposed to work? 

 

 

For once the a call goes the Jets way and it's  a gift. Did you see the Bengals game? 

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11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

they were due? 

like a roulette wheel going black a bunch of times in a row? 

did Miami deserve to win that game after 7 FG probably not but it's hard to get excited the way that game ended 

they didn't exactly "earn" it either 

I am not the keeper of of "earned wins" and "earned losses" It seems to be an arbitrary thing. The scoreboard at the end of the game seemed to indicate the Jets were ahead at the end. And, by looking at the standings, they reflect that.

I am not so smart in football, but the trend I have noticed is that when the guys in one colored jersey get in the end of the field more often than the guys in the other colored jersey, that team tends to win. That happened yesterday.

As a matter of fact, the one team did not have their jersey in the field end at all yesterday. They were dammed good at kicking the ball through that portal though. But the NFL seems to not like that portal as much as that end of field thingy.

 

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1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

For once the a call goes the Jets way and it's  a gift. Did you see the Bengals game? 

I watch all the games, unfortunately.

Spoiler alert the line didn't get any better yesterday those holding calls just weren't called as often 

it's predictable how the league pushes story-lines 

The Bengals game is what happens when the league wants to give a winless team a bone. The Dolphins/Jets game is what happens when the league wants to save Adam Gase's job/promote their young star in Darnold

this thursday night the Jets will probably be back to offensive holding 6x a half

it's not like some conspiracy theory. This is entertainment and they sell season tickets to the Opera too 

the difference is at Lincoln Center someone's singing professionally every time you go 

 

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

league office decisions that decide the outcome of games are rare and possibly Divine like manna from heaven 

hell yes it was a gift 

what's the alternative? life is fair and this is how it's supposed to work? 

 

 

Problem was, those league officials that want the Darnold to do so good, as you insinuated did not tell the refs before the game. 

Penalty stats: Jets for 10 for105 yards, Dolphins 6 for 51 yards.

The NFL must be micromanaging game calls for the final 2 minutes only.

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I watch all the games, unfortunately.

Spoiler alert the line didn't get any better yesterday those holding calls just weren't called as often 

it's predictable how the league pushes story-lines 

The Bengals game is what happens when the league wants to give a winless team a bone. The Dolphins/Jets game is what happens when the league wants to save Adam Gase's job/promote their young star in Darnold

this thursday night the Jets will probably be back to offensive holding 6x a half

it's not like some conspiracy theory. This is entertainment and they sell season tickets to the Opera too 

the difference is at Lincoln Center someone's singing professionally every time you go 

 

Right, i guess that is why the league also allowed the Fins to march up and down the field 8 times missing the NFL records for FG's in a game by 1. The league was just trying to make the Jets look good and we know how good you look when you are not able to stop a team that 99% of football fans can only name 2 players on the entire roster. 

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3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

 

The NFL must be micromanaging game calls for the final 2 minutes only.

that's exactly what happens

the rules state coaches can't challenge within 2 minutes 

the challenge has to come from the booth aka NY 

so yes they micromanage the end of games 

how is this so hard? 

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2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Right, i guess that is why the league also allowed the Fins to march up and down the field 8 times missing the NFL records for FG's in a game by 1. The league was just trying to make the Jets look good and we know how good you look when you are not able to stop a team that 99% of football fans can only name 2 players on the entire roster. 

what you are describing holding another team to nothing but field goals is called a premium defensive job in 2019 NFL 

teams don't pitch shut outs anymore 

gregg williams' defense played way above their heads yesterday 

put it another way the Dolphins could have won by 20 

 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

that's exactly what happens

the rules state coaches can't challenge within 2 minutes 

the challenge has to come from the booth aka NY 

so yes they micromanage the end of games 

how is this so hard? 

Bit, I love you, but sometimes you just come up with some real weird crap, that really has no basis in truth at all.

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2 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Interesting observation on Darnold.  I *think*

I'm probably putting two and two together and getting five, but I have noticed what may be a trend regarding Darnold.

When protection is bad, Darnold's play degrades.  It is more than just bad passing.  His entire skill set vanishes.  Footwork becomes jumbled, throws off back foot, making bad decisions with the football... An over all loss of concentration.  

And...

When Gase throws the Peyton Manning "drop back pocket passer" play book at Darnold like we saw yesterday, I see a lot of the same thing.  Loss of concentration and focus leading to bad passes and lazy play...

This is starting to look a lot like Sam saying "f**k it" when things are not to his liking...

I could be reading into things of course, and I'm sure I will get a few butt-fumbles, but I think there is some substance to what I am saying...

May not be an exactly ground-breaking observation to conclude that when he has bad protection and bad play-calling he doesn't play as well.

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

that's exactly what happens

the rules state coaches can't challenge within 2 minutes 

the challenge has to come from the booth aka NY 

so yes they micromanage the end of games 

how is this so hard? 

If you allowed coaches to challenge plays inntheblast two minutes, the end of games would take an extra 30 minutes becaise they would challenge every play that went against them becaise reviews often take longer than a TO so it gives more time to regroup.  

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These last three game should be interesting. Good teams, good defenses. I’d expect to see a lot of man coverage on our subpar receivers, as well as bliztes.

I’d like to see Darnold produce 6-8 TD’s, no more than 2-3 INT’s, with him outplaying Josh Allen and getting us a win in that final game.  

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My observations on Darnold:

With a clean pocket he is accurate on anything 15 yards or under. He can also throw short to intermediate passes accurately on the move (his best attribute IMO).

His flaws are unfortunately apparent enough to get exposed by most defenses (especially with a bad OL).

Darnold cannot handle pressure at all. He can’t step up in the pocket, he locks onto one receiver, and he throws high risk passes off his back foot. If you get consistent pressure on Darnold he will absolutely fold. Beyond that he is also incredibly inaccurate on downfield passes. I personally believe he can improve on that element of his game with a better oline/more confidence. 


 

 

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23 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

May not be an exactly ground-breaking observation to conclude that when he has bad protection and bad play-calling he doesn't play as well.

My observations add up to more than that, I think.  Darnold can be a top NFL QB.  It is not just pass pressure in his way.  It is Gase.    I dont credit Mac with the Darnold pick.  Darnold pretty much fell into their lap.  The Jets had a piece of luck for once... 

And to what ends will that luck serve the Jets ???

It is a Shame that Darnold will most probably be wasted by Gase either through inept handling or perhaps he will be traded before the 2020 draft.

The current situation is far worse than most see or want to admit.

Gase has *DUPED* Chris Jonson and the Jets are heading further and faster down the wrong track.  

The biggest shame of it all is that the Jets finally got a franchise QB that you can build a team around.   With Gase backed by Johson, it is going up the bloody spout... 

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24 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The Chiefs not having the Pats TD by Harry was a gift, not a PI where the DB pulled the recoever sideways by his shoulder. 

That wasn’t a gift; if Belichek hadn’t blown a challenge early in the game he’d have been able to challenge it. If Harry catches that in the last 2 mins, it’s a touchdown.

Chiefs didn’t win because of the refs though...they won because Brady has become a noodle arm. He was the second coming of Joe Kapp; everything he threw was weak and fluttering. That got the Pats several questionable PI calls because Brady severely underthrew his receivers especially on throws outside the numbers. The only pass he completed over 20 yards was the touchdown to Edelman and that was severely under thrown as well. In the past the 4th down pass knocked away by Marcus Peters would have been 6 but the ball had nothing on it and it gave Peters time to recover. The receiver was open by NFL standards; Brady couldn’t get the ball to him.

Unless Roger Clemens gives him his HGH dealer’s number, Father Time has knocked him down for the count, IMO. They’ll still probably win the AFCE but the division leaders in the other 3 divisions have already beat them...2 of them in Foxboro...

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3 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Interesting observation on Darnold.  I *think*

I'm probably putting two and two together and getting five, but I have noticed what may be a trend regarding Darnold.

When protection is bad, Darnold's play degrades.  It is more than just bad passing.  His entire skill set vanishes.  Footwork becomes jumbled, throws off back foot, making bad decisions with the football... An over all loss of concentration.  

And...

When Gase throws the Peyton Manning "drop back pocket passer" play book at Darnold like we saw yesterday, I see a lot of the same thing.  Loss of concentration and focus leading to bad passes and lazy play...

This is starting to look a lot like Sam saying "f**k it" when things are not to his liking...

I could be reading into things of course, and I'm sure I will get a few butt-fumbles, but I think there is some substance to what I am saying...

Watching the Rams game last night Collinsworth said the same on Goff. When he gets a lot of pressure/blitzing his QBR is like 60. Some of this on Goff and Darnold is a lack of exp. while some is just that very few QBs can be accurate much of the time with that much pressure coming at them. I would say you have to have more outlet and hot routes that over time the QB knows when pressure comes that is where you have to go or in this order for Darnold:

1) Hot read/route

2) Check down

3) Tuck the ball and run

4) Throw it out of bounds

5) Take the sack

Young QBs always look to extend plays getting a bigger play instead of 1st going to 1 and 2 above. Over time they will learn if that is what the D gives you on that play that is what you take. If that is not there try 3 if you can safely run and slide when necessary, or if not throw it away. Obviously 5 taking the sack is generally better than throwing balls up for grabs that are normally INTs. Number 5 though is always where you need to try to avoid when you are in FG range and can't afford losing the yards there especially with the game on the line. Wasn't thrilled it occurred on our last drive yesterday, but that was a blind side sack he could not see coming and he should have thrown the ball away as stated in 4 above before that much time elapsed that a back side defender looped all the way behind him.

Oh, and plays like draws and screens should also be used to slow up pass rushes, but that is an old school football strategy I don't see as much. When teams run draws and screens it seems it is not specifically due to the pass rush.

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1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

These last three game should be interesting. Good teams, good defenses. I’d expect to see a lot of man coverage on our subpar receivers, as well as bliztes.

I’d like to see Darnold produce 6-8 TD’s, no more than 2-3 INT’s, with him outplaying Josh Allen and getting us a win in that final game.  

I also think it's important that we don't get embarrassed on national TV again. 

We aren't beating the Ravens, but can Darnold keep us within 2 touchdowns and score at least 20 points? No 30-3 type losses with 3-4 picks. 

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How did the Giants beat the Pats in SBs?
 

Hint: it wasn’t cover 2 zone D. And it certainly wasn’t their offense. 

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4 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

of course it was pass interference

no one saying it wasn't  

the problem is PI CAN be called on almost any play

and the super shady part is how they called a review, issued a flag when there was none and essentially gave the win to the Jets 

the refs on the field didn't make a call, the league office did with 40 seconds left and the game on the line? Flores was right to be livid - these calls are so subjective 

***

put it another way,

 offensive holding can be called all game long (but wasn't called much at all) 

do we really think the Jets line got awesome in a week? 

Tom Compton was bear hugging people yesterday 

the league puts their thumb on the scale to get the outcome they want

go to the Pats board right now they are livid about Jerome Boger

 

What's wrong with you?

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I’m rewatching the game. They just said Sam is last in the NFL when being blitzed 

so far in the first half he is sharp but he’s passing over wide open short routes for deeper ones. That’s not necessarily bad, but something to keep an eye on

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56 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I also think it's important that we don't get embarrassed on national TV again. 

We aren't beating the Ravens, but can Darnold keep us within 2 touchdowns and score at least 20 points? No 30-3 type losses with 3-4 picks. 

I’m thinking that the only way the Jets don’t get their doors blown off is if Harbaugh takes his foot off the gas as Belichick seemed to inexplicably do in the “Luke Falk” game. If you saw what Balt did to the Rams (who beat SEA last night) there’s actually a case for Balt putting up 70 points on the Jets.  Gregg Williams has been Outstanding, but he can only do so much coaching this Below-NFL talent in many positions.

I saw some of Ravens-Bills yesterday.  Josh Allen had barely 40 yards passing in the first half and was under constant duress.

The Jet so-called “OL” is going to get totally obliterated in the same fashion as the “Ghost Game” vs New England.

I think you’re really interested in people’s opinions because you want to take the 15 points...lay off this game.

My advice to our potential Franchise QB is to send this note to Gase and get on the next plane back home to California...

Dear Coach Gase:

Sammy has come down with a nasty type flu bug that is totally unrelated to his f*cked up knee, foot, hand (was stepped on yesterday), sternum, toenail that was all caused by the total lack of protecting him because of that strange coffee cup man.  Sammy can not play Thursday night.  Thank you.

Signed, Darnold’s Mother

 

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5 hours ago, nico002 said:

Darnold has below average protection on nearly every snap. 

This.

How anyone can judge Sam Darnold with this year's illness, this year's retirements, and this years unprecedented injury at OL, WR, and TE is beyond me.  Being 5-4 since returning from mononucleosis with this expansion-caliber roster and this pathetic running game may be one of the greatest QB accomplishments in team history.

Sam is just fine.  Can't wait to see him next year with a full arsenal of weapons, a line, and a ground game.

SAR I

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4 hours ago, Maxman said:

You didn't see Darnold audible yesterday? Because it happened and it resulted in a first down.

Can you post the make\model\price of your TV. Those shots you are getting that help you read facial expressions and interpret them sound sweet.  :)

He looks into the eyes!

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4 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Darnold is here for one more year and then the Jets can move on from him and Gase, and finally erase the Mike McCagnan stench from this organization. 

The Jets are 5-4 with a healthy Sam Darnold and have won 4 of their last 5 games with the worst and most injured roster in the NFL.

You should be impressed.  But of course, SOJF's are always looking at reasons to make themselves miserable.

SAR I

 

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4 hours ago, THE BARON said:

I *think* they may trade Sam to one of the teams at the top of the draft order that need a QB so the Jets can take Justin Herbert or another as of yet undiscussed QB

If the Jets held onto Teddy Bridgewater and he played in the Browns, Eagles, and Patriots games while Darnold was out, we would be 8-5 and the 6 seed with head-to-head matchups against the Steelers and Bills ahead of us.

That's the type of season this beat up and injured Jets team put forward, and you view this season as a loss?  Quite from it.  One should leave this season thinking we have a HC and a QB and depth at LB, TE, and CB, unexpected surprises towards 2020.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, CurtMart said:

How did the Giants beat the Pats in SBs?
 

Hint: it wasn’t cover 2 zone D. And it certainly wasn’t their offense. 

They were able to pressure Brady with 4 and drop 7 into coverage and on all of the shallow crossing routes every Pats receiver took hits and paid a price... that also messed up the timing of the NE offense to a degree. Anytime a NYG DL could hit Brady, they did.

That's how they beat them.

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33 minutes ago, SAR I said:

If the Jets held onto Teddy Bridgewater and he played in the Browns, Eagles, and Patriots games while Darnold was out, we would be 8-5 and the 6 seed with head-to-head matchups against the Steelers and Bills ahead of us.

That's the type of season this beat up and injured Jets team put forward, and you view this season as a loss?  Quite from it.  One should leave this season thinking we have a HC and a QB and depth at LB, TE, and CB, unexpected surprises towards 2020.

SAR I

You think the Jets have a HC ??? That Charlatan ??? 

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

the Jets traded 3 second rounders and Quenton Nelson for Sam Darnold. There's the new line WF. All the resources were poured into Sam. 

Nelson btw was a gold jacket player before the draft and everyone knew it 

the logic was a QB 1 would make everything better

unfortunately i spent an awful lot of time looking at the TV yesterday wondering if Fitzpatrick, quenton Nelson and 3 2nd rounders win more games 

I think if everyone here would be honest, they’d all admit to being shocked at us winning one of the remaining 3 games. Let’s be optimistic though, and give us one more win. That makes us 6-10, and when combined with last years 4-12, we would be a combined 10-22 since that trade.

Now we all know about the OL problem here, a lot of teams are in the same situation. Even if Douglas spends two, or even three high picks on the OL, they will be young, unproven and at best need years to develop as a unit, all while trying to integrate 3 or 4 other pieces.

Nobody here I can think of has said Darnold is a bust, some think he will become a star. I think some, myself included, feel he isn’t going to be the game changer we had hoped. He has flaws, but does things well also. I see him as a guy who can be somewhere between top 11-17 in the league for 10 years or more if he has everything in place around him and gets the proper coaching.

So where does that leave us heading into next year? 

We’ll have a tougher schedule, our roster will be overhauled, but still a ways from being competitive. The unproven QB will be in his third year. It’s very fair to argue that we’d have been better off not making the trade, and trying to build up the roster with those four very premium picks considering what’s transpired since it happened, and what we are looking to in the next few years.

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20 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

You think the Jets have a HC ??? That Charlatan ??? 

With this same roster, Herm Edwards, Al Groh, and Rex Ryan would be 1-8.  Adam Gase is 5-4.  That's beyond impressive.

SAR I

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5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

With this same roster, Herm Edwards, Al Groh, and Rex Ryan would be 1-8.  Adam Gase is 5-4.  That's beyond impressive.

SAR I

Have you completely lost your mind ? Or are you an associate of Adam Gase ??? Gase is the definition of the HC that jams square pegs into round holes.  You actually think a Rex Ryan team would have LeVeon Bell folding laundry on game day ???

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