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DonCorleone

Another Terribly disappointing game for

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Quinnen Williams. I know he is young, but he reminds me an awful lot of Leonard, only not as good a run stopper. 

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The one time he did make a play, he grabbed a FM and gave MIA a 1st down

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He was fine out there.  next year will be huge improvement and year 3 he will be the best player on this defense.  There is a reason half the league tried to trade for this guy at the deadline.  They understand the baby has not become a man yet and when he does, watch out!!

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

This could be copied and pasted from 4 years ago.  Just change 'Leo' to 'Quinnen' and we have it about right.

I also find it amusing that the guy that thinks Sam Darnold is the worst QB in the league is a big supporter of Quinnen

No one said that about leo.  he was a finished product coming into the league.  he didnt have near the athleticism Quinnen does.  

I have never said that Sam Darnold is the worst qb in the league.  i like Sam and hope he turns into Joe Namath.  Please do not misconstrue my posts.   

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It's weird.  That first series, he was the most disruptive we've seen him all year long and then I dont remember seeing him at all on the field after that serious.  I havent see the official snap count yet, wonder we he ended up.  

 

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

It's weird.  That first series, he was the most disruptive we've seen him all year long and then I dont remember seeing him at all on the field after that serious.  I havent see the official snap count yet, wonder we he ended up.  

 

Got a stinger....had to leave game.

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I actually think if you go back and re-watch it he had a pretty good game. Definitely had some pressure up the middle on a few plays and was stuffing the run.

Not what you want from the 3rd overall pick but I thought he played pretty well.

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2 minutes ago, section314 said:

Got a stinger....had to leave game.

Ah, that's right...was he out for the entire game after that?

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11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If he can't make an impact against Miami's awful OL, who will he make an impact against?  

Here's how this will go on JN:

1) Stage 1 (Current):  "He's just a rookie, leave him alone."

2) Stage 2 (Years 2020-21):  "He's showing improvement, leave him alone" (meanwhile he has 6 career sacks while Josh Allen has 27.5 and Ed Oliver is getting Aaron Donald comparisons)

3) Stage 3 (2022):  "The draft pick happened, we can't do anything about it.  Quit whining."

Watch out NicoCop will put you on his black list (sic) of "Actually Patriot Fan Trolls"

 

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Ah, that's right...was he out for the entire game after that?

Believe it was later in 1st half.

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24 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

Quinnen Williams. I know he is young, but he reminds me an awful lot of Leonard, only not as good a run stopper. 

Quinnen appeared to be unblockable before he got hurt. That's a good sign. 

Avoiding a facemask and doing a better job positioning himself for the sack is something that will come with experience. 

I am not worried about Quinnen's talent. I am more worried that he seems to leave games with injuries fairly often. Could be injury prone or just be the team playing it safe with him. 

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26 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

Quinnen Williams. I know he is young, but he reminds me an awful lot of Leonard, only not as good a run stopper. 

Yep.  Forget any of the nonsense about him being a young player that needs to be developed.  Not even Rex Ryan could train him up.   Far from being the impact player you would expect from such a high first round choice, he is not even as effective as a JAG.  Mike DeVito  and Pouha were both better inside d-linemen.   His rookie contact is cheap, so if you cant get a 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th round pick for him, just keep him around until his contract is over and he drops off the map

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6 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He was dominant until he left with a neck injury 

Exactly. This was his most disruptive game before he got injured. They couldn't contain him at all and he blew up a lot of plays. He was clearly a force - just watch the film.

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13 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He was dominant until he left with a neck injury 

 

6 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Exactly. This was his most disruptive game before he got injured. They couldn't contain him at all and he blew up a lot of plays. He was clearly a force - just watch the film.

 

You two have a very strange definition of "dominant" and "disruptive".  

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31 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If he can't make an impact against Miami's awful OL, who will he make an impact against?  

Here's how this will go on JN:

1) Stage 1 (Current):  "He's just a rookie, leave him alone."

2) Stage 2 (Years 2020-21):  "He's showing improvement, leave him alone" (meanwhile he has 6 career sacks while Josh Allen has 27.5 and Ed Oliver is getting Aaron Donald comparisons)

3) Stage 3 (2022):  "The draft pick happened, we can't do anything about it.  Quit whining."

The pivot from "Ed Oliver??? lol ok 🙄" to "Q is just as good as Oliver, it's just that Q's contributions don't make it into the stat sheet" to "every expert had Q rated as the best player in the draft and there was no way to know Oliver would be better, so we can't blame anyone for it" is going to be fun.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

The pivot from "Ed Oliver??? lol ok 🙄" to "Q is just as good as Oliver, it's just that Q's contributions don't make it into the stat sheet" to "every expert had Q rated as the best player in the draft and there was no way to know Oliver would be better, so we can't blame anyone for it" is going to be fun.

If only there was a way to predict which DT would make the better pass rusher.  If only.  

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37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If he can't make an impact against Miami's awful OL, who will he make an impact against?  

Here's how this will go on JN:

1) Stage 1 (Current):  "He's just a rookie, leave him alone."

2) Stage 2 (Years 2020-21):  "He's showing improvement, leave him alone" (meanwhile he has 6 career sacks while Josh Allen has 27.5 and Ed Oliver is getting Aaron Donald comparisons)

3) Stage 3 (2022):  "The draft pick happened, we can't do anything about it.  Quit whining."

Im already at stage 3. Any Maccagnan draft pick who does anything is a bonus, I expect nothing

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2 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Who cares about Ed Oliver. Taking a DT @3 is stupid. Josh Allen was the only pick the Jets should have made at 3. That or trade down

It's not stupid if the DT has the potential to be a great pass rusher.  There's no more valuable piece to a defense than a pass-rushing DT, because it prevents QB's from dominating in the short passing attack. 

You would think we'd know this to be true after years and years of Tom Brady making short throws over the middle.  

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18 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Yep.  Forget any of the nonsense about him being a young player that needs to be developed.  Not even Rex Ryan could train him up.   Far from being the impact player you would expect from such a high first round choice, he is not even as effective as a JAG.  Mike DeVito  and Pouha were both better inside d-linemen.   His rookie contact is cheap, so if you cant get a 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th round pick for him, just keep him around until his contract is over and he drops off the map

This is a weird post. Starts off sarcastic but then when you mention Mike DeVito and Pouha, it actually goes against the point you are trying to make because they were indeed really good players for us, and then the post just gets to be too much with the end part. 

I understand both sides to this debate, because I agree that young players need time to develop, but at the same time, we have seen this story before a couple of times, so it might not be too crazy to assume he won't end up "the best player in the draft" when it's all said and done. I think he has a higher chance of turning into a Leo Williams than an Aaron Donald, unfortunately. 

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1 minute ago, Drums said:

This is a weird post. Starts off sarcastic but then when you mention Mike DeVito and Pouha, it actually goes against the point you are trying to make because they were indeed really good players for us

As run-stoppers.  You don't take a run-stopper in the top 10.  Macc did it twice.  Three times if you want to count Jamal Adams.  

Pouha's and DeVito's can be found in a lot of places.  

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41 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If he can't make an impact against Miami's awful OL, who will he make an impact against?  

Here's how this will go on JN:

1) Stage 1 (Current):  "He's just a rookie, leave him alone."

2) Stage 2 (Years 2020-21):  "He's showing improvement, leave him alone" (meanwhile he has 6 career sacks while Josh Allen has 27.5 and Ed Oliver is getting Aaron Donald comparisons)

3) Stage 3 (2022):  "The draft pick happened, we can't do anything about it.  Quit whining."

4) HE’S ACTUALLY GOOD PFF GAVE HIM AN 84 BRO

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33 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This could be copied and pasted from 4 years ago.  Just change 'Leo' to 'Quinnen' and we have it about right.

I also find it amusing that the guy that thinks Sam Darnold is the worst QB in the league is a big supporter of Quinnen

You are right it could be copied and pasted from 4 years ago.   I am not on the Quinnen hate train or his cheer-leading squad.  From what I have seen from hi;  he has been playing well since he missed a few games with the injury.  No Sacks but this defense is not built for him to get the sacks yet. It's not his role. The scheme doesn't call for that.  I will reserve judgement to see if we ever address the pure pass rusher void we have to see where Q winds up.   I want to hope he will improve but the similarities to Leo are scary. But still to early say Q will be Leo 2.0, one player has nothing to do with another.   

 

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not stupid if the DT has the potential to be a great pass rusher.  There's no more valuable piece to a defense than a pass-rushing DT, because it prevents QB's from dominating in the short passing attack. 

You would think we'd know this to be true after years and years of Tom Brady making short throws over the middle.  

I believe that you should use top 5 picks on premier positions. Qb, LT, OLB, WR, CB. Dts are important but not nearly as important as an OLBer.

Sprinkle in the fact that the dline was a strength of this defense. not a weakness. Jets didn't need another DT. They have needed an OLBer for 15 years

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2 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

You are right it could be copied and pasted from 4 years ago.   I am not on the Quinnen hate train or his cheer-leading squad.  From what I have seen from hi;  he has been playing well since he missed a few games with the injury.  No Sacks but this defense is not built for him to get the sacks yet. It's not his role. The scheme doesn't call for that.  I will reserve judgement to see if we ever address the pure pass rusher void we have to see where Q winds up.   I want to hope he will improve but the similarities to Leo are scary. But still to early say Q will be Leo 2.0, one player has nothing to do with another.   

 

Same thing was said about Leo, scheme hurts him.  Not mean to get sacks.

In any case he was an AWFUL pick because you do not pick a guy 3rd overall to not get sacks.

The blame for this falls squarely on chris johnson for being too utterly stupid to not fire mac and thus let him screw up one last off season

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6 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I believe that you should use top 5 picks on premier positions. Qb, LT, OLB, WR, CB. Dts are important but not nearly as important as an OLBer.

Sprinkle in the fact that the dline was a strength of this defense. not a weakness. Jets didn't need another DT. They have needed an OLBer for 15 years

 

Aaron Donald is the highest paid defensive player in the NFL for a reason my man.  He's the most valuable defensive player on the planet.  JJ Watt is in that category too, though his play has of course fallen off in recent years due to age and injuries.  Would you use a top 5 pick on Donald in hindsight?  Of course you would.  

You need to split DT's into 3 different categories:  Pass-rushers, all-around DT's, and run stuffers.  The former group is very small, and the most valuable position on the field on defense.  The middle group is where you find guys like Gerald McCoy.  The latter group are guys like Pouha, DeVito, Steve McLendon, etc.  

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45 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's weird.  That first series, he was the most disruptive we've seen him all year long and then I dont remember seeing him at all on the field after that serious.  I havent see the official snap count yet, wonder we he ended up.  

 

He got hurt I think I heard

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QW has had a pretty low impact season. Some of that is attributed to injuries. Some of it is attributed to the depth of the D-line and not getting as much playing time as he would if this defense was desperate for a DT. Some of it is clearly a learning curve he is going through. Its not because he is lazy or not a talented player or somehow 'bad' or even a bust- I don't care who you are you simply can't make that determination yet. 

I know a lot of people will say that you don't draft a player that needs development in the top 5, you draft a guy who will make an immediate impact. But guess what, QW needs some development. He is very young and has immense upside, you can see flashes every game he plays. But it will take some time. Very different from Leo, who came in as a much more polished player. And QW WAS drafted as a DT who can do it all, stuff the run and get to the QB. That is what justified the high selection. He was strong and athletic enough to play multiple positions on the D-line and get to the QB. The hope was to get a guy who you could line up at DE, NT, or DT in a dime and in passing downs he would be able to rush the QB.

Would I have selected Josh Allen in hindsight? Sure. The dude is a monster and filled a huge need for us. I was a fan of both QW and Allen. But that doesn't nec. make QW a bad player. And if he DOES start getting to the QB from the inside in the next couple of years, that will make a huge impact b/c I assure you, in the mean time the Jets will be looking for an edge rusher in FA and the draft.   

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