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1 minute ago, JiF said:

I say this stat over and over again but morons keep saying things like Bell is done.  The Jets RB's meet 1st contact at .5  yards past LOS.  League average is 3 yards.  Nobody is going to be successful behind this OL.  3 RB's are utilized by the Jets, the average is 3.3 ypc and everyone of them is having their worst year from a YPC perspective.  Coincidence?  no

Bell looks slow to me too.

This time to first contact is partially bell as well, it's part of his style. I don't know the origina of that stat but in terms of time behind the line, Powell looks to be about 17% less than Bell 2.99 vs 2.48 seconds. Bell is in the upper end of time spent behind the line, but not top 10. 

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39 minutes ago, JiF said:

I feel like people who say Bell looks slow, has never seen Bell play.  He's not a burner, never has been.  That's not his thing. He's a patient runner with incredible vision and the ability to make the 1st guy miss and possibly a better WR.

If Bell is traded to a team that can run block, he'll be right back at the top of the league.  I guarantee it. 

Obviously I've seen him play, we'll see next year I guess 

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Weird how the Steelers didnt deal with all these issues that Bell creates with his running style.

In 2017 Bell YPC dropped 20% off his 15/16 average and he was no longer an elite back that year.

Then he took 18 off

Now hes 3 years removed from elite play, 3 years older at a position known for a short shelf life.

But let's pretend that's not even a possible issue and its all Gase's fault.

Kewl

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Wow.  Third in the league in rushing, first team all pro = not elite?  What ******* planet do you come from?  

The one where I dont care so much about gross #'s. FWIW, I consider elite to be top 3. Bell's 2017 total numbers are inflated by the fact that  he lead the league in attempts by nearly 15%, but his dvoa was 11th and his ypc was in the 20's. I understand that high attempts will drag down efficiency at the position but again, I'm saying he wasnt a top 3 back and was showing signs of decline  not that he wasn't good or even very good l.

Pitts ran him into the ground knowing they might lose him and it's fair to wonder if that burned a significant amount of tread on his tires

 

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2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

(5th in DYAR, 11th in DVOA)

Ok, so a guy with a ton of carries in his career hovering around the age when players at his position start to show a sharp decline, shows a decline. 

Now we are 2 years later and acting like his clear decline this year is all on Gase rather than a logical continuation of what we saw from 16-> 17

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9 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don’t know who “we” is. I have no doubt he was declining before he put pen to paper with us, which is why I hated the contract from the outset. My point is that given the available options, not using Bell more in the passing game is a huge mistake that has nothing to do with any physical decline on Bell’s part.

I'm talking about running game only, agree with you on passing. "We" in this instance is jif and the jiffettes

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31 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

DB- I don't disagree with anything that you say here (this thread).

Help the uninformed here on DVOA and DYAR:

-Does it distinguish between situations on the football field:

   -Say a run on 3rd and one and the yards gained (where the defense may be stacked in the box)

   -Vs a run on 3rd and long (where the the defense may be laying back and giving up yards

-Does it distinguish yards gained as being different in say carries 1-10 vs 30+ in a game?

I follow the metrics in baseball and find some useful and some garbage. And some no one can explain what they mean and how they are derived. I do not follow it in football.

The Reader's Digest version, please.

 

I'm going to assume DB -  douche bag so I'll respond

VOA has definitions for what a "succesful play" is that they have calculated has the impact on winning, It's something like 6 yards on first down and goes down from there with the goal being to get a first down. So a run on third and 1, for 2 years and a first down is more valuable than a run on 3rd and 15 than goes for 6 yards and a punt.

It then compares to a calculated average and makes adjustments for things like opponent strength, score etc..

DYAR is their attempt to rectify the bold, recognizing that performing above average for a high number of plays is valuable in and of itself.

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17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You don't think that kind of volume is an asset?  Which 3 backs were better?  Gurley and who?  Maybe Hunt? Ingram?  Those guys didn't exactly play in the same kind of offense.  Elliot had more ypc and ypg, but he missed a bunch of games for domestic violence.  If he wasn't top 3, he certainly was top 5.  He had a higher ypc (your main criteria) than Fournette and McCoy, and .1 less than Jordan Howard. 

The Steelers tagged him and rode him like a rented mule.  That may have taken some tread off his tires, but it wasn't showing yet.  I would argue that if he weren't getting 21+ carries a game he'd have had a significantly higher ypc. 

He led the league in attempts and they gave him week 17 off to rest. Teams knew he was coming, they didn't spell him and he still blew them up for 4+ ypc.  This wasn't Lamont Jordan or Shonn Greene getting 4.7 ypc.   They gave Connor a whopping 34 carries that whole season.  He looked pretty good in the playoffs against a Jacksonville team that was using the Rex Ryan Jets' template.

 

I do think it's an asset to have a high DYAR. And I do think he had a good / very good year but I don't think he was "elite" by the way I define it. To me elite is a top 3 guy.  He was that guy in 15 and 16 and slipped a bit in 17.

Here's the thing, it's well known that most RB's start a steep decline in the back half of thier 20's.  This isn't a 25/26 yo QB slipping a bit, it's a 25/26 yo RB slipping a bit. One with a ton of wear on his tires with how often Pitts uses him in both the run and pass game. IN 2017 he had 406 touches, the next nearest, Lesean Mccoy had 346. Bell was almost 20% higher!

I just don't think it's logical to point to the Bell of 2019, conclude he doesn't look like the elite guy from 2016 and say it must be a Gase issue. I don't think it's likely he ever gets back to that level of performance. I

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

Gase and Darnold get a pass because the OL stinks but Bell is an ancient back suited for the glue factory. Riiiiight.

just to clarify, I gave Gase a pass when Darnold was out. I give all 3 a pass when the Oline had Edoga and Kalil starting. 

These days I'm not giving much of a pass to any of them. The oline is bad but it's not the dumpster fire it was and you saw the offense put up a few decent games 

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3 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Give him a break. He's got a lot of miles on his account and posters his age usually start to decline right about now.

Zing!

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13 minutes ago, JiF said:

I said he can’t run because of the line and gave you data at how bad our line is and how each RB on the roster is having their worst years ever.  Never blamed Gase for the OL, I blame him for alienating yet another of his best players for whatever reason.    

When did you become such an emotional baby?

Yes well it's hard to keep track of your ever evolving and frequently contradictory opinions 

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12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Lmfao - you are just an agenda fitter these days.  Used to be good at this. 

My only agenda here is that I think you and your ilk think we have the 2016 Bell and we dont

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

Been watching this team basically fail for 40 years. I’m done giving passes. Results matter.

Of course but so does context. Sam is 22, Gase was hired into dysfunction and quickly excised the biggest organizational weakness. 

Making any definitive conclusion on either based on ownerships idiot decision to allow Mac another offseason to continue his work on sabotaging this teams present in future under the hallmark of "you are what your record says you are" is unwise and unfair.

This isnt to say I'm an enthusiastic supporter of either, I have serious concerns about both but they get next year to show clear progress or atleast one of them goes.(gase)

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