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Copernicus

Something's not right

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46 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Something is so not right with Gase/Bell/and the Jets. As the season is playing out it is becoming more clear that they are not on the same page. From Bell going from top offensive threat in the NFL to lack of carries and involvement in the offense, to the obnoxious amount of carries the RBs got on Sunday without Bell,  to the flu that was serious enough for the Jets to make Bell inactive but not serious enough that he would be able to go bowling. Something is not right here. Is Gase the bad guy for not playing him enough throughout the season? Is Bell the bad guy behind the scenes and the bowling incident and lack of awareness of being scene in public is the start of exposing why Gase seems to not like him?

How do you think this plays out? 

Yeah... It is Gase... 

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14 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Maybe. Or maybe the coach is an obstinate dickhead, and that's the reason why Bell--far and away the best receiving back in football--got 3 more targets a game as a receiver on a team that also had Antonio Brown than he's getting on a team whose best pass-catcher is Ryan Griffin.

Great point. 

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Weird how the Steelers didnt deal with all these issues that Bell creates with his running style.

I mean, gtfo out of here with this nonsense.  Absolutely ridiculous take. 

Powell is having the worst year of his career, same with Montgomery, oh and everyone on the offense except Sam.  But lets talk about how it's all Bell's fault the offense suck.

DId you actually read this post and think there was any logic in here? 

You GTFOOHWTS! The only reason the Steelers are competing for a playoff spot is that Oline & Defense. The Steelers have a TOP FIVE OLINE! I don't want to draft young NFL inexperienced Olineman & have to have them hold blocks while the RB dances around behind them. Talk about asking for holding Penalties. We need 1 cut runners like Sanders was doing for the Eagles on MNF. ESPECIALLY when Sam has this offense down complete & we have the personnel to play uptempo. Its when defenders get just a bit tired that uptempo EXHAUSTS them, especially with RBs that run through arm tackles. Hey, we disagree, but don't respond to my post like your some type of football Genius. The game isn't f*cking rocket science. And teams that can do the simplest things on offense with blindfolds on are usually very hard to beat. 

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34 minutes ago, JiF said:

Gase is a egomaniac psychopathic a$$hole who likes to make and prove points rather than do what's best for his team.  It's a was a glaring issue in Miami as he ran all the talent out of town and it's obvious with how he handles any situation he doesnt like; so he went out of his way to alienate Bell and prove a moronic failed point by letting Powell show that nobody can run behind this OL.

I say this stat over and over again but morons keep saying things like Bell is done.  The Jets RB's meet 1st contact at .5  yards past LOS.  League average is 3 yards.  Nobody is going to be successful behind this OL.  3 RB's are utilized by the Jets, the average is 3.3 ypc and everyone of them is having their worst year from a YPC perspective.  Coincidence?  no

An "offensive genius" cant work in 27 year old Le'Veon Bell's skill set but Todd Haley made him the most dynamic playmaker in the NFL.  It's not a good look for Gase just like the Tannehill situation.

This x 100000

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1 minute ago, Copernicus said:

Great point. 

I'm starting to think fans on this site have no idea about cause & affect. Antonio Brown with the Steelers was considered the best WR in all of football! You don't think teams weren't giving him extra attention to allow for Bell to perform in space? James Conner did the same sh*t last year B4 he got injured. If Jet fans think that Le'veon Bell doesn't look slow, or the year off definitely hurt his game, I have no idea what games your watching. 

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31 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Even Bell cannot make this oline look at all good.

Oh yeah, play design and play calling stinks as well.

 

"Good players can't overcome bad coaching." It's an axiom at this point.

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11 minutes ago, JiF said:

He has the 2nd most receptions on the team and 82% catch rate.  You dont think that's beneficial to Sam? 

wow

I do. Didnt realize he has the 2nd most receptions. Pretty quiet. Was about to be critical of Gase for not involving him in the passing game enough. 

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14 minutes ago, JiF said:

I feel like people who say Bell looks slow, has never seen Bell play.  He's not a burner, never has been.  That's not his thing. He's a patient runner with incredible vision and the ability to make the 1st guy miss and possibly a better WR.

If Bell is traded to a team that can run block, he'll be right back at the top of the league.  I guarantee it. 

all the positive attributes are there as mentioned.

NOT A BURNER is not equivalent to SLOW.

And he is SLOW. If we can block, sure he can get his 4.5 per. 

17 yd long run on 184 attempts is crap. Spoon all the fluff you want on top. Thats crap.

It s not  his fault that the majority of his catches have been where he cant be in the open.

As mentioned above its more like his style is terrible for a bad OL. Where even a JAG like Powell is slightly more effective.

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1 minute ago, Jetworks said:

"Good players can't overcome bad coaching." It's an axiom at this point.

Barry Sanders had such great coaching it makes my head spin.

The above statement reeks to high heaven.

 

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27 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Bell likes holes to develop before he makes his "burst".  Powell being a Jet for so long knows, if the o-line provides a slight crack, just run through that and hope for the best.

 

 

Prime. This is exactly correct 

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45 minutes ago, JiF said:

say this stat over and over again but morons keep saying things like Bell is done.  The Jets RB's meet 1st contact at .5  yards past LOS.  League average is 3 yards.  Nobody is going to be successful behind this OL.  3 RB's are utilized by the Jets, the average is 3.3 ypc and everyone of them is having their worst year from a YPC perspective.  Coincidence?  no

He averaged a meager 4.0 ypc behind three all pros in Pittsburgh the last year he played for them. He’s toast as a runner.

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1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

Something is so not right with Gase/Bell/and the Jets. As the season is playing out it is becoming more clear that they are not on the same page. From Bell going from top offensive threat in the NFL to lack of carries and involvement in the offense, to the obnoxious amount of carries the RBs got on Sunday without Bell,  to the flu that was serious enough for the Jets to make Bell inactive but not serious enough that he would be able to go bowling. Something is not right here. Is Gase the bad guy for not playing him enough throughout the season? Is Bell the bad guy behind the scenes and the bowling incident and lack of awareness of being scene in public is the start of exposing why Gase seems to not like him?

How do you think this plays out? 

Gase didn't want Bell.  That was obvious.

Bell was last a very good RB in 2017, behind a great O-line with a future HOF QB and good WR's. 

Behind a bad O-line, after a year off, with a 30'ish rated QB, and weak WR's, and two years older, he simply may not be the same guy.

Bell is completely unsuited for running behind this kind of O-line, which is why bullrusher Powell is "as good" running this year.

The Flu-Bowling is an obvious problem/issue/sign at worst, and a bad look for all parties at best.

Bell will be moved prior to the 2020 season. That too, IMO, is obvious.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bell is an old back who can’t get through holes, which porks everything you want to do on offense. He’s single-handedly putting Sam Darnold in second and nine all game long. Old backs suck

I don’t think he’s a decrepitly broken down ‘old’ back; it’s just, as others have said before, Bell’s patient running style will not work with this OLine.  Just not a fit at this point

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One would think that if we'd like to trade Bell in the offseason, we need to "showcase" him the remainder of the season.  Lot's of called pass plays with Bell as the focus would be nice, rather than just ramming him up the middle over and over again.  

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10 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I'm starting to think fans on this site have no idea about cause & affect. Antonio Brown with the Steelers was considered the best WR in all of football! You don't think teams weren't giving him extra attention to allow for Bell to perform in space? James Conner did the same sh*t last year B4 he got injured. If Jet fans think that Le'veon Bell doesn't look slow, or the year off definitely hurt his game, I have no idea what games your watching. 

I find the use of Bell/lack of/ or just his over all talent level more debated among Jets fans than any other. 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bell is an old back who can’t get through holes, which porks everything you want to do on offense. He’s single-handedly putting Sam Darnold in second and nine all game long. Old backs suck

Do you think he cant hit the hole because he genuinely lost a step due to age? Or because his running style is more centered on hesitating and waiting for one to materialize?

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3 minutes ago, Ohhthepain said:

Do you think he cant hit the hole because he genuinely lost a step due to age? Or because his running style is more centered on hesitating and waiting for one to materialize?

a combination...  i mean...  his 40 coming out was slightly slower than Derrick Henry...  who i believe is even faster 

AFTER 40 yds than Bell...  hence a history of home run runs.

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39 minutes ago, JiF said:

I feel like people who say Bell looks slow, has never seen Bell play.  He's not a burner, never has been.  That's not his thing. He's a patient runner with incredible vision and the ability to make the 1st guy miss and possibly a better WR.

If Bell is traded to a team that can run block, he'll be right back at the top of the league.  I guarantee it. 

Obviously I've seen him play, we'll see next year I guess 

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took a while but I just remembered what former jet Bell reminds me of this year...

Clark Gaines circa 1978

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48 minutes ago, deucebag said:

Agreed,  he did the same thing with Jay Ajayi and Jarvis Landry, if he doesn't like/want you he makes the team suffer for it.

Why does everyone keep bringing up Jay Ajayi? That is such a weak argument. It's actually an argument that's props Gase. Jay Ajayi hasn't played meaningful football in almost 2 years. Gase had good foresight to get rid of him. And I'm no  Gase lover. Why does Buffalo keep trotting out Frank Gore, when Devin Singletary is a superior running back at this point?

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22 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

I find the use of Bell/lack of/ or just his over all talent level more debated among Jets fans than any other. 

Even teams with bad olines have RBs that BREAK a run now & then. 17 yards is the longest run for Bell this year. Everyone is like, split him out as a WR. What? Why not just sign Golden Tate, Tyrell Williams or John Brown then, they were all free agent WRs last offseason & draft a f*cking RB? 

 

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1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

But how are we going to lose his salary? From what was reported on WFAN this morning the cap hit would be 17 million. Cant see how anyone would trade for him knowing  how much it will cost against the cap.

You need to find someone with a ton of cap space. I say you will need to give up a draft pick probably around a 3rd...and hope to get a 7th back.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

took a while but I just remembered what former jet Bell reminds me of this year...

Clark Gaines circa 1978

Amp Lee

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41 minutes ago, ID. said:

I don’t think he’s a decrepitly broken down ‘old’ back; it’s just, as others have said before, Bell’s patient running style will not work with this OLine.  Just not a fit at this point

Then why did he average a paltry 4.0 his last year with the Steelers? 

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Bell looks better than Barkley this season.

Is Saquon too old now too?

Chill.  Bad olines make the best skill players look bad.  Good olines make mediocre skill players look great.

Just fix the oline decently and Bell will be elite again.

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1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

Barry Sanders had such great coaching it makes my head spin.

The above statement reeks to high heaven.

 

That's your sample size, a generational player playing for a notoriously bad franchise? and just how successful was Barry Sanders in overcoming bad coaching? Was he able to elevate his team to success? Not so much. 

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2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Maybe. Or maybe the coach is an obstinate dickhead who thinks Frank Gore is the Platonic form of running back, and that's the reason why Bell--far and away the best receiving back in football--is getting 3 fewer targets a game as a receiver on a team whose best pass-catcher is Ryan Griffin than he did on a team whose best pass-catcher was Antonio Brown. 

Well, I’d say that the passing game was a lot more effective in Pittsburgh than it is here and, sure, Gase should be emphasizing Bell as a receiver because it’d help Darnold, but also Bell looks shot regardless.

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Bell's greatest strength is his patience and vision. That, coupled with his elusiveness and physicality, make him really tough to deal with in the running game.

Patience and vision don't mean anything when your offensive line sucks. The cold truth is Powell has been more effective as a runner because he makes one cut and hits the hole hard. That's what you need to do when the line sucks. Make a quick decision and run as hard as you can to get up field before things close up or the defense reacts.

Combine that with Gase not being creative about how to use him, and we are where we are. On a team with a good offensive line and a smart OC (like, you know, the Steelers) Bell is a dominant player. But we have neither so he's a total non-factor.

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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Patience and vision don't mean anything when your offensive line sucks. The cold truth is Powell has been more effective as a runner because he makes one cut and hits the hole hard. That's what you need to do when the line sucks. 

Combine that with Gase not being creative about how to use him, 

yes and no. i'd say tryna be creative don't mean squat when your offensive line sucks

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Not to defend Gase, who has been mediocre so far at best, but Bell was signed by MacLoser despite Gase making it clear he thought other backs were a better fit and the money was better spent elsewhere. So we cannot blame Gase for all of this. The depth of MacCoffeeTurds incompetence and ARROGANCE is really staggering.

We take a gigantic cap hit trading Bell. If we do we better get a decent player or pick

 

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I think Leveon is a very talented RB. But this year it just hasn't worked out as expected. I don't think he simply lost his skills because he sat out a year.  I think Gase and his system is a major reason why. And as a lot of you have pointed out, he just doesn't fit well with this o line as constructed.

But the O-line is going to be blown up in the offseason. we might have 3-5 new starters next year on the O-line.

I don't know. Call me crazy but I'd like to keep him around 1 more year and try this again with a real line in front of him. I just think he has too much talent to give away. Best case scenario he looks like the Leveon of old. At worst it's a repeat of this year.

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32 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Well, I’d say that the passing game was a lot more effective in Pittsburgh than it is here and, sure, Gase should be emphasizing Bell as a receiver because it’d help Darnold, but also Bell looks shot regardless.

Sure—the flipside of the target numbers in Pittsburgh is that they had HOF-caliber talent at QB and WR1, plus an elite offensive line. I thought (and still think) the Bell signing was a huge mistake for a million different reasons. But sometimes it does seem like Gase isn’t even trying with him.

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2 hours ago, Drums said:

Bell has been anything but a diva and seems to be a good teammate so if you want to make these statements, at least provide some examples from this year.

Sure he’s bowling when he’s supposed to be bed ridden with the flu 

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Weird how the Steelers didnt deal with all these issues that Bell creates with his running style.

In 2017 Bell YPC dropped 20% off his 15/16 average and he was no longer an elite back that year.

Then he took 18 off

Now hes 3 years removed from elite play, 3 years older at a position known for a short shelf life.

But let's pretend that's not even a possible issue and its all Gase's fault.

Kewl

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11 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Sure he’s bowling when he’s supposed to be bed ridden with the flu 

And here's where it gets confusing. It was not Bell that requested to not play because he was so bedridden and sick, it was the Jets, Shouldn't the Jets be criticized somewhat for making a relatively healthy player sit out if he obviously wasn't bedridden? 

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