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How could 31 scouting departments be so wrong?

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Just now, TeddEY said:

Lamar Jackson is going to throw for nearly as many TDs this season as RGIII has in his career.

Jets fans need to sh*t on this kid is embarrassing.

Speak for yourself. I'm pointing out that its a bit early to be proclaiming him as some messiah. He looks brilliant this season. 

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Just now, pointman said:

Speak for yourself. I'm pointing out that its a bit early to be proclaiming him as some messiah. He looks brilliant this season. 

You compared him to RGIII.  I'm pointing out how that comparison is wrong.

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Just now, TeddEY said:

You compared him to RGIII.  I'm pointing out how that comparison is wrong.

Nah, you're wrong. I pointed out how RG3's stock was immense after his initial run. He then became unemployed. 

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

You compared him to RGIII.  I'm pointing out how that comparison is wrong.

I think the comparison is apt in that RGIII was a great passer and runner, but when injuries took his ability to run away, it turned out he wasn’t actually a great passer—he had success because of the way defenses prepared for the dual threat. If Lamar tears up his knee, is he a good enough passer to overcome a loss of mobility? 

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8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Running QB with the most passing TDs in the NFL by a wide margin.

Doesn’t make him a passing QB, he’s a really good running QB on a really good team 

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Better than I ever thought he'd be, but like a lot have touched upon, his playing style isn't known for it's longevity. 

As a somewhat side note, they have been hyper-efficient on offense this year to the point where it would be nearly impossible to duplicate next year. Like Peyton, Brady, and and the most recent example Mahomes, things eventually regress to the mean and that's when the great ones truly separate themselves from the pack. Not saying that Jackson won't be great, but at the same time I would a larger sample size of games where everything doesn't go in their favor.

Obviously, all this will be irrelevant if they win the super bowl

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Doesn’t make him a passing QB, he’s a really good running QB on a really good team 

Leading the NFL in passing TDs doesn't make him a passing QB?

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This is why you don't trade proven players for magic beans i.e. more draft picks

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the comparison is apt in that RGIII was a great passer and runner, but when injuries took his ability to run away, it turned out he wasn’t actually a great passer—he had success because of the way defenses prepared for the dual threat. If Lamar tears up his knee, is he a good enough passer to overcome a loss of mobility? 

Jackson outclasses him on all counts.

If he tears up his knee, maybe he's done.  You know who else was basically done after tearing up his knee?  Prolific running QB Carson Palmer.

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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Leading the NFL in passing TDs doesn't make him a passing QB?

If you like a QB and he good, he is "elevating the talent around him."

If you don't care for a QB and he is good, he is "being dragged along by his good team."

We live in a post-truth world.

Only feelings matter now. 

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Leading the NFL in passing TDs doesn't make him a passing QB?

If you and anyone else believes that he would lead the league in any passing category if he couldnt run like he does thats good for you 

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"But but but what if he ends up like RG3???"

I love that comparison, because of how wrong it is, yet people still force it!

Of course Lamar can get hurt. Any QB can get seriously hurt. Just look at Andrew Luck (who also was running QB 😏). Players take hits and get hurt. It happens. What I will say about Lamar is that he doesn't put himself in a position to constantly take big hits. He runs out of bounds and slides quit a bit. That's the difference between him and RG3, who didn't even know how to slide lmao. Plus he's not wreckless like Vick, who also fumbled the ball.

Everybody's comparing him to other "running QBs" but not the right one

WellgroomedOrdinaryDolphin-size_restrict

😉

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2 minutes ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

Better than I ever thought he'd be, but like a lot have touched upon, his playing style isn't known for it's longevity. 

As a somewhat side note, they have been hyper-efficient on offense this year to the point where it would be nearly impossible to duplicate next year. Like Peyton, Brady, and and the most recent example Mahomes, things eventually regress to the mean and that's when the great ones truly separate themselves from the pack. Not saying that Jackson won't be great, but at the same time I would a larger sample size of games where everything doesn't go in their favor.

Obviously, all this will be irrelevant if they win the super bowl

Mahomes's (and Watson's) means are still really great. What I don't get is how you look at that draft and take a safety over either, because both check all the boxes in ways Jackson does not. Want a winner, a face for your franchise, a good guy-they both have all that. They can do everything. Conforming your playbook to Jackson means an OC is probably dumping a good chunk of it to play to his strengths.  A good coach can look at what he can do and do that. A bad one cannot. 

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1 hour ago, Jet9 said:

Because his style has an expiration date. 

If he wins a SB before that expiration date then sign me up. 

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1 minute ago, King P said:

"But but but what if he ends up like RG3???"

I love that comparison, because of how wrong it is, yet people still force it!

Of course Lamar can get hurt. Any QB can get seriously hurt. Just look at Andrew Luck (who also was running QB 😏). Players take hits and get hurt. It happens. What I will say about Lamar is that he doesn't put himself in a position to constantly take big hits. He runs out of bounds and slides quit a bit. That's the difference between him and RG3, who didn't even know how to slide lmao. Plus he's not wreckless like Vick, who also fumbled the ball.

Everybody's comparing him to other "running QBs" but not the right one

WellgroomedOrdinaryDolphin-size_restrict

😉

YOung was a better passer and landed in the greatest spot imaginable; great OL, 2 HOF WRs and Dwight Clark, solid TEs, a borderline Hof RB. 

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2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Mahomes's (and Watson's) means are still really great. What I don't get is how you look at that draft and take a safety over either, because both check all the boxes in ways Jackson does not. Want a winner, a face for your franchise, a good guy-they both have all that. They can do everything. Conforming your playbook to Jackson means an OC is probably dumping a good chunk of it to play to his strengths.  A good coach can look at what he can do and do that. A bad one cannot. 

Honestly a bit confused by your response.

I feel like you're just saying things that are closely related to what I said but not exactly refuting or agreeing with it.

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7 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Jackson outclasses him on all counts.

If he tears up his knee, maybe he's done.  You know who else was basically done after tearing up his knee?  Prolific running QB Carson Palmer.

Prolific runner C Palmer? 

Really?

 

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8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Jackson outclasses him on all counts.

If he tears up his knee, maybe he's done.  You know who else was basically done after tearing up his knee?  Prolific running QB Carson Palmer.

Carson Palmer went on to start like 130 more games after tearing up his knee

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Prolific runner C Palmer? 

Really?

 

No.  Not really.  It was sarcasm.  Used to point out that tearing up a knee is bad for QBs, not just running QBs.

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Just now, T0mShane said:

Carson Palmer went on to start like 130 more games after tearing up his knee

Yes, his style of play allowed him to continue on, but he was not the same player.

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12 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Jackson outclasses him on all counts.

If he tears up his knee, maybe he's done.  You know who else was basically done after tearing up his knee?  Prolific running QB Carson Palmer.

Yes, but a guy who runs all of the time is much more likely to tear up his knee, or some other body part, which would be the only real caution with LJ

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Just now, slimjasi said:

Yes, but a guy who runs all of the time is much more likely to tear up his knee, or some other body part, which would be the only real caution with LJ

Is this true?  Or, does it just sound/seem true?

Because, a lot of traditional QBs have ripped up their knees too.

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9 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

No.  Not really.  It was sarcasm.  Used to point out that tearing up a knee is bad for QBs, not just running QBs.

OK, you scared me

But come on, a Palmer, who doesnt run is suited to come back after a knee.

Running QBs who tear up a knee and have to stop running, never are the same.  I used to to love Bert Jones and he was the first of many who once their running ability was taken away their games were done.  Jackson isnt a RWilson who is a passer with legs and picks and chooses his runs.  Jackson is a RB who passes.  Hell, he has more carries than Kamara

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Is this true?  Or, does it just sound/seem true?

Because, a lot of traditional QBs have ripped up their knees too.

That's a fair question. 

All I can really say is that it seems to be true to me. I have no hard data to prove that it actually is. 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

OK, you scared me

But come on, a Palmer, who doesnt run is suited to come back after a knee.

Running QBs who tear up a knee and have to stop running, never are the same.  I used to to love Bert Jones and he was the first of many who once their running ability was taken away their games were done.  Jackson isnt a RWilson who is a passer with legs and picks and chooses his runs.  Jackson is a RB who passes

Let's assume I agree with all of this, which is a stretch, but irrelevant for the sake of my follow up point.

If I told you you could have 3 years of Lamar Jackson doing what he's doing today, MVP level play, or, you could have 6 years of something like the 10th to 12th best QB play, which would you choose?

Because, today, to me, if you're re-drafting, I think every team that took a QB would take Lamar and roll with the 3-year window of greatness.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Media, pre-draft: “He’s probably a fourth rounder as a QB and should work out at WR or RB if he wants to be in the league.”

 

Media, last year: “Lamar struggled in the playoffs and the Ravens should be in the market for a QB.”

 

Media, last three months: “Man, all you racists who doubted Lamar Jackson are so gross. Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourselves.”

 

Media, after Lamar gets his ankle broken: “We all knew this would happen. The question is where do they go from here.”

 

Media, in two years: “It’s nice of the Dolphins to sign Lamar Jackson to the league minimum so he can back up Mason Rudolph.”

Just imagine what Tebow could have been. #rexlovedsanchezfeet

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I heard someone say this week that the Ravens (and Greg Roman) were willing to build an offense around Lamar's strengths and not make him do things he couldn't.

To me they did something that most all NFL coaches would never do because of their egos - fit the system to the player and not force the player to fit the system.

Their o-line is very good. Their TEs are good. Their RBs are pretty good. Their WR corps is nothing special. 

It seems to have worked. The question is for how long?

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Just imagine Josh Rosen drafted ahead of Jackson. Someone made that decision, like without a doubt a better player.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Media, pre-draft: “He’s probably a fourth rounder as a QB and should work out at WR or RB if he wants to be in the league.”

 

Media, last year: “Lamar struggled in the playoffs and the Ravens should be in the market for a QB.”

 

Media, last three months: “Man, all you racists who doubted Lamar Jackson are so gross. Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourselves.”

 

Media, after Lamar gets his ankle broken: “We all knew this would happen. The question is where do they go from here.”

 

Media, in two years: “It’s nice of the Dolphins to sign Lamar Jackson to the league minimum so he can back up Mason Rudolph.”

watch this late night GIF

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2 hours ago, Jet9 said:

Because his style has an expiration date. 

since when did 15 yd runs OOB without being touched have an expiration date?

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Yes, but a guy who runs all of the time is much more likely to tear up his knee, or some other body part, which would be the only real caution with LJ

you mean every single running back in the NFL. they should stop drafting running backs?

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Lamar had serious questions about his throwing accuracy coming out of college. That’s why he dropped. Credit to him and the coaching staff for working to address that while also putting him in good situations to thrive. It’s certainly not a given that a QB will improve his passing skills in the NFL, just ask Hackenberg.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

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28 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

you mean every single running back in the NFL. they should stop drafting running backs?

No, but running backs have notoriously short careers.

you would be pretty disappointed if every QB you drafted only lasted a little more three years (i.e. the average career length of an NFL running back) 

none of this is to say that Jackson will definitely get hurt. Maybe he won’t. But the concern over the longterm viability of all those designed running plays for a QB is a valid one. 

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2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

No, but running backs have notoriously short careers.

you would be pretty disappointed if every QB you drafted only lasted a little more three years (i.e. the average career length of an NFL running back) 

none of this is to say that Jackson will definitely get hurt. Maybe he won’t. But the concern over the longterm viability of all those designed running plays for a QB is a valid one. 

alotta rund w/ no contavt that are easily as good as Rb plays.

he's SPECIAL. you do SEE that? 

i dunno. we had a good 2 yr run w/ Rex. I wanna see runs where we might actually get it done. No matter who the SPECIAL player is... the player whos is DRIVING it.

Again... I agree that Sam MAY have that i him with a deceent OL.

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