How could 31 scouting departments be so wrong?

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, HtownJet said:

Just imagine Josh Rosen drafted ahead of Jackson. Someone made that decision, like without a doubt a better player.

It happens. The draft is a crap shoot. No one really knows anything. It’s a semi-educated guess at best. There are too many variables. 

That’s why the obsession that people have with tanking for a slightly higher pick every year is silly. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

alotta rund w/ no contavt that are easily as good as Rb plays.

he's SPECIAL. you do SEE that? 

i dunno. we had a good 2 yr run w/ Rex. I wanna see runs where we might actually get it done. No matter who the SPECIAL player is... the player whos is DRIVING it.

Again... I agree that Sam MAY have that i him with a deceent OL.

LJ definitely has special talent and is definitely the MVP of the league right now. No question. 
But people are going to continue to worry about his longterm durability until he shows that he can play the way he currently plays for several seasons in a row without breaking down. 

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

No question. 
But people are going to continue to worry about his longterm durability

fine.

they got THE GUY who is THE GUY...   right frigging NOW.

we got a guy who MIGHT be the guy somewhere in the future. It;s sad. I;m sad. We coulda had Deshaun or LJ.

2 more losing seasons later....

[Losmeister]

and thanks for not making fun of all my crazy ass typos...

for reals... 

lasy typist MOFO that i am...

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

fine.

they got THE GUY who is THE GUY...   right frigging NOW.

we got a guy who MIGHT be the guy somewhere in the future. It;s sad. I;m sad. We coulda had Deshaun or LJ.

2 more losing seasons later....

They are ready to win now. They probably have the best roster in the league. 

We have a bottom 5 roster.

Our time will come  

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

They probably have the best roster in the league.

cos they have LJ.

they were 4-5 and rudderless last year.

cmon man.

[Losmeister]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

They probably have the best roster in the league.

They have THE BEST ALL ROUND PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE.

THAT is why they are ready to win NOW.

[Smashmouth]

they were probably more concerned with the possibility of injury and after that hit Lamar took tonight I'm sure they all held their breath for a few seconds. If he turns out to be durable, then fine, but if he starts dealing with injuries its gonna all go away 

[Irish Jet]

6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Jackson outclasses him on all counts.

If he tears up his knee, maybe he's done.  You know who else was basically done after tearing up his knee?  Prolific running QB Carson Palmer.

Palmer had his best season like 10 years later. He wasn't "basically done" or anything close. He just joined the Raiders.

The RGIII comparisons are a little lazy though. His injury was pretty freakish too and exacerbated by terrible coaching - Not to mention he has long standing knee issues. He hurt himself running but destroyed himself fumbling a snap.

There are concerns about Jackson simply because his style demands he get hit a lot more. He could keep this up 7-8 years and it wouldn't be surprising. As of right now he's a phenomenon. Falling in the draft to the Raves was the best thing that happened him though. He's not doing this at any of the teams that went QB ahead of him.

[Barton]

He's playing great but their offense is a scheme. It's not a traditional NFL offense. How will they fare next year after the NFL studies their offense for an entire offseason? 

[Jetster]

This is a perfect example of the idiocy shown every year in this league. You have billionaires like the Johnsons that don't know their azz from their elbow. Somehow these guys were duped by a moron like Charlie Casserly. 

You or I would have been sitting in our office & in walks Charley Casserly (The guy who the greatest coach in the league said, "who's Charley Casserly"). First, if I own the NY Jets, I'm already aware that the greatest coach in history intimated that Casserly is a moron. 

Then he would walk in my office with that stupid Dumb & Dumber bowl cut & it would confirm my suspicions. (Let's be real, I would have never went to Charley Casserly for advice anyway). 

But our idiot owners did. And we ended up with probably the worst drafting GM in the history of the this league. Before Macc traded up in 2018 I asked the question, WHY NOT LAMAR? The rules are all intended to protect QBs. Did you see the hesitation all over the field last night? The only Jet that lined him up was Hewitt. 

A team that hasn't won sh*t in 50 years should have been thinking outside the box. Instead of giving up half their draft, there'd be sitting at 6 & LJ just drops in your lap. This boring azz franchise needed an exciting player. Of course it's hindsight, it always is but their were a few Jet fans before that draft asking, why not Lamar? The best GM in the business didn't ask why, he said, come to poppa. 

[82nd Airborne]

Considering all the injuries, I believe G. Williams did a decent job holding Lamar hence very little help from our offense with costly turnovers and keeping the Ravens offense on the field. 

[MicDrass1]

Ever been around 32 nfl scouts .... after being so you would know why 31 missed out.   

[HtownJet]

This is a perfect example of the idiocy shown every year in this league. You have billionaires like the Johnsons that don't know their azz from their elbow. Somehow these guys were duped by a moron like Charlie Casserly. 
You or I would have been sitting in our office & in walks Charley Casserly (The guy who the greatest coach in the league said, "who's Charley Casserly"). First, if I own the NY Jets, I'm already aware that the greatest coach in history intimated that Casserly is a moron. 
Then he would walk in my office with that stupid Dumb & Dumber bowl cut & it would confirm my suspicions. (Let's be real, I would have never went to Charley Casserly for advice anyway). 
But our idiot owners did. And we ended up with probably the worst drafting GM in the history of the this league. Before Macc traded up in 2018 I asked the question, WHY NOT LAMAR? The rules are all intended to protect QBs. Did you see the hesitation all over the field last night? The only Jet that lined him up was Hewitt. 
A team that hasn't won sh*t in 50 years should have been thinking outside the box. Instead of giving up half their draft, there'd be sitting at 6 & LJ just drops in your lap. This boring azz franchise needed an exciting player. Of course it's hindsight, it always is but their were a few Jet fans before that draft asking, why not Lamar? The best GM in the business didn't ask why, he said, come to poppa. 

Including myself, I asked the same question - why not Jackson?

[slimjasi]

5 hours ago, Losmeister said:

They have THE BEST ALL ROUND PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE.

THAT is why they are ready to win NOW.

Nah, they have a stacked roster. Football doesn’t work that way. You don’t go 12-2 because of one guy.

They have a great team. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

professional talent evaluators are simply not good and this is not new

3rd round QB is the GOAT, 6th round QB close but cheating clouds his career, HOF players are not all first round picks, plenty of UDFA's in the league, etc... 

[HtownJet]

Nah, they have a stacked roster. Football doesn’t work that way. You don’t go 12-2 because of one guy.
They have a great team. 

So what’s your definition of MVP?

[bealeb319]

Jackson is a good athlete but it takes a special offense catered around him to make him work. The Ravens molded the offense around lamar and it is paying off, gase would have not known what to do with the guy.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Losmeister said:

you mean every single running back in the NFL. they should stop drafting running backs?

You mean all those RBs who are built like LJ?

The ones who are more valuable leading an offense as opposed to running the ball?

You don't get that LJ isn't built like a RB and his position is much more important than a RBs?  

[slimjasi]

46 minutes ago, HtownJet said:

So what’s your definition of MVP?

This has nothing to do with most valuable player. 
LJ is great, but you don’t win 10 straight games without a really good roster. There are 11 guys on the field. 
 

Their offense alone has a great QB, a great OL, and very good running backs. 

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Let's assume I agree with all of this, which is a stretch, but irrelevant for the sake of my follow up point.

If I told you you could have 3 years of Lamar Jackson doing what he's doing today, MVP level play, or, you could have 6 years of something like the 10th to 12th best QB play, which would you choose?

Because, today, to me, if you're re-drafting, I think every team that took a QB would take Lamar and roll with the 3-year window of greatness.

I don't get the stretch, no one has won with a QB who is more RB than "QB".  None have lasted 

1.  There is no guarantee you get even 3 years out of LJ.  Lets not forget he got injured during the playoffs a year ago.

2.  You're assuming you're going to get 3 years of MVP play.  

3.  You normally get more than 6 years of play out of a top 10 QB.  Why cut him off at 6?  6 vs 3 MVP years is kind of an unrealistic comparison.  

4.  Who ultimately was more important to a team, RGIII or Cousins?  What did Vick win?  

Interesting conversation without an answer right now, how it plays out will be answered.  

 

[deucebag]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

You have to give the Balt head coach and OC a ton of credit, they have designed an offense around him and let him do what he does best.  He also went to a team that did it the right way, built other important aspects.

Lamar by himself would not do near as well if he was on a sad sack team like the jets

If Lamar were a Jet, his career may be over by now.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I don't get the stretch, no one has won with a QB who is more RB than "QB".  None have lasted 

1.  There is no guarantee you get even 3 years out of LJ.  Lets not forget he got injured during the playoffs a year ago.

2.  You're assuming you're going to get 3 years of MVP play.  

3.  You normally get more than 6 years of play out of a top 10 QB.  Why cut him off at 6?  6 vs 3 MVP years is kind of an unrealistic comparison.  

4.  Who ultimately was more important to a team, RGIII or Cousins?  What did Vick win?  

Interesting conversation without an answer right now, how it plays out will be answered.  

 

1.  You could say this about every single QB in the NFL.  You're not guaranteed health.  This year it was mono, next year Darnold could be sidelined with MeccaHerpes.

2.  Of course it's an assumption, that's literally the point of this hypothetical exercise.

3.  You do normally get more than 6 years out of a top 10 QB, but I stated someone just outside of the top 10.  If you can get 10 years of top 10 QB, great.  But, so far we're 2-years into both, and one is having an MVP season, and the rest aren't top 10, or even top 1/3rd QB, and you could argue they're all bottom 1/3rd.

4.  Ultimately Cousins, in this case.  But, one example isn't the reason to dismiss another player who's playing at an MVP level.  Who was more valuable to the Ravens last year, Flacco or Jackson.  As for Vick, he won a lot of football games.  A championship, no.  But, he was a successful NFL QB.

[Chrebetfan80]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

There is actually a thing called “quarterback face” that scouts allegedly take into account when evaluating QBs. Most QBs are objectively handsome dudes, which lends them innate confidence. It’s a dopey thing, but it’s a consideration nonetheless. And, as far as his intellect, I don’t think there’s anyone who would hear him speak for five minutes who’d be comfortable burning a high pick on a him to play QB. He scored a 13 on the Wonderlic. All that said, he seems like a nice kid and he’s obviously killing it, but drafting him and designing an offense for him was a massive leap of faith for Harbaugh and the Ravens. 

The thing is they didnt design an offense for him at first.  They put him in and had him run the offense they had, and when they saw the result only then did they pivot.  Fired marty morningweg, allowed Greg Roman to take it over, and Greg then threw everything out and started from scratch.  So while yes Harbough and the ravens deserve credit for taking a chance on a dynamic playmaker like Jackson, I'm not going to sit here and give them the credit of "We knew this all along, this is what we envisioned" because it's clearly not.  

 

What they deserve credit for was realizing that Jackson couldnt do what they wanted to do and pivoting off that.  Then luckily they had a guy on staff that could handle designing an offense,  from the ground up mind you, terminology, play design, EVERYTHING.  He was also a guy that had success with a similar style QB in SF and was able to pull from experience.  

 

 

[carlito1171]

Credit to BAL for building an offense to suit him instead of making the mistake of trying to develop him as a pocket passer....

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

10 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Absurdly ugly kid who is barely intelligible when speaking. It happens. 

I'm glad you said this. He is hard to look at in general, and even harder to listen to during an interview. I'd take him in a heartbeat as my QB, but damn, he got hit with the ugly stick twice.

[carlito1171]

10 hours ago, Bugg said:

He's 2 inches taller and thicker. But way better is pushing it. What he could be is a better passer than Vick ever was. But he won't get that chance if he gets clobbered and ends up like RGIII. 

Vick was ahead of his time in a lot of respects....I can only imagine if he played in an NFL that was willing to embrace college concepts like today’s NFL....Vick did most of his damage from Scrambling....Lamar does most of his damage from designed QB runs and read option... 

[THE BARON]

10 hours ago, Viermoo said:

Lamar Jackson isn’t just good. He’s flat out dominant. Changes the way an opponent  plays defense in every way. All four of the QBs taken before him couldn’t hold his jock. Why was he so lowly rated?

So was Michael Vick.  So was RG III.   Even Cam Newton, who is a huge, strong dude wore down.  It is exciting to watch a one man offense, but it wont last.  I personally get ticked off when a QB starts tearing it up with his feet.  I want to see those players get hammered.   It is like watching an NFL team with a Lou Holtz option offense.  They would be begging for a stretcher case. The QB is going to run down that channel only so many times before he gets decapitated. 

[Bugg]

31 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I don't get the stretch, no one has won with a QB who is more RB than "QB".  None have lasted 

1.  There is no guarantee you get even 3 years out of LJ.  Lets not forget he got injured during the playoffs a year ago.

2.  You're assuming you're going to get 3 years of MVP play.  

3.  You normally get more than 6 years of play out of a top 10 QB.  Why cut him off at 6?  6 vs 3 MVP years is kind of an unrealistic comparison.  

4.  Who ultimately was more important to a team, RGIII or Cousins?  What did Vick win?  

Interesting conversation without an answer right now, how it plays out will be answered.  

 

What bothered me about RGII is they played they guy when they knew he was hurt. If they hadn't done that. had they done more to keep him healthy, who knows? To the Ravens' credit, looks like they understand that. Doesn't hurt to have RGIII, a smart guy,  in the room either. 

[14 in Green]

16 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

The thing is they didnt design an offense for him at first.  They put him in and had him run the offense they had, and when they saw the result only then did they pivot.  Fired marty morningweg, allowed Greg Roman to take it over, and Greg then threw everything out and started from scratch.  So while yes Harbough and the ravens deserve credit for taking a chance on a dynamic playmaker like Jackson, I'm not going to sit here and give them the credit of "We knew this all along, this is what we envisioned" because it's clearly not.  

 

What they deserve credit for was realizing that Jackson couldnt do what they wanted to do and pivoting off that.  Then luckily they had a guy on staff that could handle designing an offense,  from the ground up mind you, terminology, play design, EVERYTHING.  He was also a guy that had success with a similar style QB in SF and was able to pull from experience.  

 

 

Except this is false, and the exact opposite is true.

Last year the Ravens were 4-5 under Flacco. Jackson turned their season around the minute he got on the field. He carried them to the playoffs, and the second half of that playoff game he erased all doubt.

The Ravens didn’t win, but the comeback Lamar and the Ravens made was something to see. He had no other “stars” around him, but They saw what they had at QB, went out and got Ingram to line up in the backfield this year. He still doesn’t have an elite WR, imagine if they get him that? 

[Vudu]

I mean it isn’t like he didn’t win the heisman in college

 

They called him inarticulate, and raw which is coded language for we don’t want a black QB project. Also suggested he work out at WR— because he’s black.

 

Good for Baltimore for having the balls.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

[Bugg]

9 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Vick was ahead of his time in a lot of respects....I can only imagine if he played in an NFL that was willing to embrace college concepts like today’s NFL....Vick did most of his damage from Scrambling....Lamar does most of his damage from designed QB runs and read option... 

The moment you don't know if he's handing it off or hanging onto it is a DC's nightmare. 

[nico002]

Lamar Jackson doesn’t work outside of 3-5 other teams in the NFL.

his running ability is opening the pass game like I’ve never seen it. I am not impressed by the throwing but I give him credit for making the receivers wide open. If he is ever even slightly hobbled as a runner he’s done though. 

[Jet Nut]

19 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

1.  You could say this about every single QB in the NFL.  You're not guaranteed health.  This year it was mono, next year Darnold could be sidelined with MeccaHerpes.

2.  Of course it's an assumption, that's literally the point of this hypothetical exercise.

3.  You do normally get more than 6 years out of a top 10 QB, but I stated someone just outside of the top 10.  If you can get 10 years of top 10 QB, great.  But, so far we're 2-years into both, and one is having an MVP season, and the rest aren't top 10, or even top 1/3rd QB, and you could argue they're all bottom 1/3rd.

4.  Ultimately Cousins, in this case.  But, one example isn't the reason to dismiss another player who's playing at an MVP level.  Who was more valuable to the Ravens last year, Flacco or Jackson.  As for Vick, he won a lot of football games.  A championship, no.  But, he was a successful NFL QB.

Agree with most of what you're saying other than Vick was a so so QB who was more excitement than MVP game winner and Flacco as an over the hill QB loses out of course but for all the LJ hype he still hasn't achieved anywhere near what Flacco did in his big season for the Ravens. 

As I said its an interesting conversation and only time will really determine the answer.  

 

[Losmeister]

anyone who ever saw him play would know what to do with lamar ....   unless your just brainless.

that offense wasnt newly created. that offense already existed. rpo existed.

he runs for huge chunks barfely being tocuhed. and the throws for chunks. 

Stewart Mandel

 

✔@slmandel

 

 

In hindsight maybe Lamar Jackson deserved a second Heisman for managing to keep this trainwreck of a program afloat for two yeas.