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Viermoo

How could 31 scouting departments be so wrong?

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6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Except this is false, and the exact opposite is true.

Last year the Ravens were 4-5 under Flacco. Jackson turned their season around the minute he got on the field. He carried them to the playoffs, and the second half of that playoff game he erased all doubt.

The Ravens didn’t win, but the comeback Lamar and the Ravens made was something to see. He had no other “stars” around him, but They saw what they had at QB, went out and got Ingram to line up in the backfield this year. He still doesn’t have an elite WR, imagine if they get him that? 

I wouldnt say what I said was false and the opposite is true.  It was very clear in the offensive system they had in place they had a cap on where they could go with Jackson.  His passing accuracy last year was terribly inconsistent.  Some throws were awful.   What they did was scrap their offensive system which was more west coast under morningweg and went to a pistol option offense specially tailored to what they needed for Lamar to be successful. 

 

Lamar is having an MVP season for 2 reasons.  1) he did a fantastic job working on his throwing accuracy this offseason, and he's doing a much better job keeping consistent with his footwork and throwing the ball from similar mechanics even though he'll go to different arm angles.   and 2) they perfectly designed an offense based around zone option runs and got a very physical downhill back to pair with Jackson.  He's in the bottom half of the league in passing attempts, but he's probably done more with those passing attempts in terms of touchdowns compared to other more prolific "passing" qbs.   Alot of they guys he's throwing to are frankly wide open due to the incredible threat the defense has to account for on play action passing.

 

Bottom line  Jackson has helped to transform himself into an unstoppable force this season.  His ability to throw the ball with much improved accuracy is what is making this offense hum at the clip that it is.  The system is giving him easy reads and doing an excellent job of being creative with the run game allowing Jackson to flourish.   That being said, he's not on an MVP clip if he's still in a west coast offense, thats just not the player he is. 

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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

he still hasn't achieved anywhere near what Flacco did in his big season for the Ravens. 

already equaled record for td passses in a season 33.

playoffs have not yet been played.

sam has missed 6 games. lamar 0.

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11 hours ago, Viermoo said:

And if he wins just one Super Bowl in that short shelf life it was well worth it.

let's see if he wins one first

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31 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

already equaled record for td passses in a season 33.

playoffs have not yet been played.

sam has missed 6 games. lamar 0.

QB careers aren't judged by 10-20 game sample sizes.

Lamar Jackson as a 2nd year player >>>>>> Tom Brady as a 2nd year player. Who would you rather build your team around?

The issue is what happens when he suffers a knee, hamstring, ankle injury and is forced to just be a pocket passer for a few games or a year or the rest of his career? The way he plays, it's only a matter of time before he suffers some sort of a leg injury. 

If Jackson suffers a minor ankle sprain next week the entire offense may implode. That doesn't happen to Tom Brady, Rodgers, big Ben etc..

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15 hours ago, Viermoo said:

Lamar Jackson isn’t just good. He’s flat out dominant. Changes the way an opponent  plays defense in every way. All four of the QBs taken before him couldn’t hold his jock. Why was he so lowly rated?

Wait two to three years and he'll turn out to be a RGB III clone and a bottom 1/3 QB. Players with his build and him turning into a RB every 2nd or 3rd play will *not* last against a playoff level team when they put the hits on him.

Sam will be here for the next ten years. Best luck out Macc ever had.

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What I've learned in this thread: some of you play entirely too much Madden. 

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He's also the beneficiary of the NEW NFL. The business money making NFL. Not the NFL of old where guys would only want to knock his block off. The most dangerous guys in the NFL on defense are backups trying to get noticed. Guys like Hewitt who had the best shot on him all night.

Then you have the NFL pussies like Marcus Maye who tip toes in there along the sideline & tries to arm tackle him instead of laying a shot on him. This isn't even the same game older guys like myself grew up watching. Now they penalize guys in the secondary for hits that appear too hard. 

So while Lamar Jackson is a terrific talent, he also takes advantage of running along the sideline where wary defenders contemplate whacking him or not, then he cuts back into the field of play to gain more yards. Maybe the Ravens will win a Super Bowl with him. Unlike Sam, Lamar is literally surrounded by a very tough physical Oline, tough FBs, tough TEs, a physical RB in Ingram, the guy is in the perfect situation at the right time. Terrific coaching, an OC with the perfect playbook. But just like every team when the time comes to pay him 35-40 million and his protection breaks down, and instead of not even seeing a defender for 7 yards, they're instantly on him like we see with Darnold it will be interesting if he can hold up. But, like us with Sam that's 3 years down the road & I wouldn't bet against him winning a Super Bowl. 

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On 12/12/2019 at 10:37 PM, Viermoo said:

Lamar Jackson isn’t just good. He’s flat out dominant. Changes the way an opponent  plays defense in every way. All four of the QBs taken before him couldn’t hold his jock. Why was he so lowly rated?

jackson is good at the moment.  heck kaepernick was getting all kinds of accolades as were michael vick, superman, rgIII and so on.  no doubt he has some really good running talent but he's going to slow down at some point if he doesn't get injured.  the other scouting departments weren't wrong they just saw a guy with a limited shelf life.  and baltimore took a shot because they knew flacco was on the way out and they were a very well established team.  give harbaugh a ton of credit for building his offense around jackson.

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On 12/12/2019 at 10:37 PM, Viermoo said:

Lamar Jackson isn’t just good. He’s flat out dominant. Changes the way an opponent  plays defense in every way. All four of the QBs taken before him couldn’t hold his jock. Why was he so lowly rated?

He won’t last more then 5 years 

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On 12/12/2019 at 10:40 PM, Viermoo said:

And if he wins just one Super Bowl in that short shelf life it was well worth it.

Totally agreed. He will get figured out - ( or often injured). One observation from the other nights game. When he ( has to throw) and the defense knows it- he is often off target. He is so effective now because he is virtually impossible to stop running and is able to make splash plays with the deep ball because of his running ability. If a team can knock him around or contain him enough and force 3rd and longs enough in a game... he will be stopped.

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4 hours ago, Jetster said:

He's also the beneficiary of the NEW NFL. The business money making NFL. Not the NFL of old where guys would only want to knock his block off. The most dangerous guys in the NFL on defense are backups trying to get noticed. Guys like Hewitt who had the best shot on him all night.

Then you have the NFL pussies like Marcus Maye who tip toes in there along the sideline & tries to arm tackle him instead of laying a shot on him. This isn't even the same game older guys like myself grew up watching. Now they penalize guys in the secondary for hits that appear too hard. 

So while Lamar Jackson is a terrific talent, he also takes advantage of running along the sideline where wary defenders contemplate whacking him or not, then he cuts back into the field of play to gain more yards. Maybe the Ravens will win a Super Bowl with him. Unlike Sam, Lamar is literally surrounded by a very tough physical Oline, tough FBs, tough TEs, a physical RB in Ingram, the guy is in the perfect situation at the right time. Terrific coaching, an OC with the perfect playbook. But just like every team when the time comes to pay him 35-40 million and his protection breaks down, and instead of not even seeing a defender for 7 yards, they're instantly on him like we see with Darnold it will be interesting if he can hold up. But, like us with Sam that's 3 years down the road & I wouldn't bet against him winning a Super Bowl. 

What is absolutely true and different than before; defenders are scared to death to put a big hit on QB, not only in the pass rush, but even  when he's running around the 2nd level for fear of a flag. We've seen some ridiculous RTP penalties this season. 

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Lamar Jackson isn’t just good. He’s flat out dominant. Changes the way an opponent  plays defense in every way. All four of the QBs taken before him couldn’t hold his jock. Why was he so lowly rated?

IMO, the great athlete, scrambling type QBs are always great out of the box. Eventually he’s going to get hurt, either a leg or concussion and then we’ll see how good he really is. Running QBs dont last in the NFL, eventually he will have to transform himself into more of a pocket passer. We’ll see if he can do it when theres no more threat of the run on every play.

 

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On 12/12/2019 at 11:41 PM, jgb said:

This is why you don't trade proven players for magic beans i.e. more draft picks

I don't know. Failing to trade a player for those picks is the same as trading high picks away for that player. If the Jets had a pair of 1s this year, and had the team they have today plus a hole at SS, I don't think you or I or anyone would be advocating trading one of them (plus maybe more) for Adams with 1 year left on his rookie contract plus a top-10 pick's team option for 2021. 

It's hardly always a disaster. Teams do it if the time is right and they have needs different than the player:

  • If Richardson wasn't traded for a gift 2nd rounder from Seattle I don't think it means the Jets don't move up from #6 in the spring; it just means they trade yet another future 1st rounder to do so (since possibly we'd have started out with a lower slot than 6; who knows). Of course that future 1st rounder became Quinnen Williams, who's a backup so far, so there's that. 
  • I'm not at all upset with the Leo trade either (though they should have dumped him earlier when his value was higher, but Maccagnan wasn't going to move one of his only "hits" in his 4 prior drafts at that point). They weren't extending him anyway at that point, as were they already on the hook for his full salary, so the extra pick and the little bit of cap relief was found money.
  • Trading Revis for a 1st & more was also the right move at the time, even if it was unpopular (made that much more unpopular when he signed and won a SB with NE). He wasn't particularly good that year coming off his injury (hence the hefty pay cut a year later), and was very available as a UFA the following March.
  • And we should have traded Mo for draft picks instead of sticking to our guns and insisting he was worth more than anyone was willing to surrender; leading to one of the worst contracts the team has ever handed out (which is saying something). 

These are the only examples I can think of where the Jets traded (or should have traded) proven players for draft picks. They all turned out (or would have turned out) for the better so far. 4 out of 4. There aren't many more examples because there aren't a lot of teams looking to trade draft picks for Jets' veterans.

Who was the last proven starter traded for picks before that, Eric Barton over a decade ago? Only one I can think of that really blew up in our face was Pete Kendall even longer ago and that was due to a special/personal situation not because of draft pick acquisition. 

Just saying I think it's case by case, not a self-imposed rule that must not be broken.

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Lamar Jackson isn’t just good. He’s flat out dominant. Changes the way an opponent  plays defense in every way. All four of the QBs taken before him couldn’t hold his jock. Why was he so lowly rated?
He will.last 3-4 years before flaming out or getting injured.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't know. Failing to trade a player for those picks is the same as trading high picks away for that player. If the Jets had a pair of 1s this year, and had the team they have today plus a hole at SS, I don't think you or I or anyone would be advocating trading one of them (plus maybe more) for Adams with 1 year left on his rookie contract plus a top-10 pick's team option for 2021. 

It's hardly always a disaster. Teams do it if the time is right and they have needs different than the player:

  • If Richardson wasn't traded for a gift 2nd rounder from Seattle I don't think it means the Jets don't move up from #6 in the spring; it just means they trade yet another future 1st rounder to do so (since possibly we'd have started out with a lower slot than 6; who knows). Of course that future 1st rounder became Quinnen Williams, who's a backup so far, so there's that. 
  • I'm not at all upset with the Leo trade either (though they should have dumped him earlier when his value was higher, but Maccagnan wasn't going to move one of his only "hits" in his 4 prior drafts at that point). They weren't extending him anyway at that point, as were they already on the hook for his full salary, so the extra pick and the little bit of cap relief was found money.
  • Trading Revis for a 1st & more was also the right move at the time, even if it was unpopular (made that much more unpopular when he signed and won a SB with NE). He wasn't particularly good that year coming off his injury (hence the hefty pay cut a year later), and was very available as a UFA the following March.
  • And we should have traded Mo for draft picks instead of sticking to our guns and insisting he was worth more than anyone was willing to surrender; leading to one of the worst contracts the team has ever handed out (which is saying something). 

These are the only examples I can think of where the Jets traded (or should have traded) proven players for draft picks. They all turned out (or would have turned out) for the better so far. 4 out of 4. There aren't many more examples because there aren't a lot of teams looking to trade draft picks for Jets' veterans.

Who was the last proven starter traded for picks before that, Eric Barton over a decade ago? Only one I can think of that really blew up in our face was Pete Kendall even longer ago and that was due to a special/personal situation not because of draft pick acquisition. 

Just saying I think it's case by case, not a self-imposed rule that must not be broken.

Key word in my post is "proven."

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On 12/12/2019 at 11:29 PM, TeddEY said:

Lamar Jackson is going to throw for nearly as many TDs this season as RGIII has in his career.

Jets fans need to sh*t on this kid is embarrassing.

Apart from Thursday, and only because it was the jets, I love watching him play.  He runs but he is not reckless.  Watson tends to be reckless.  I'd think Watson has the higher injury risk.

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