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State of the Jets - Arguably more depressing than pre-Darnold

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3 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

But the holes you’re asking Darnold to paper over are craters on the moon relative to what those two were drafted into, but I suspect you knew that already.

Really? Because a year after they drafted Watson and Mahomes, both the Texans and Chiefs traded a first rounder plus for veteran players.

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4 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Either way, I agree Sam should be better given the draft capital invested in him and to this point he hasn’t been consistently. I’m of the opinion that there are multiple factors at play to explain why.

I don’t disagree with this, btw. Both Watson and Mahomes were drafted into situations far better than the one Darnold was drafted into, for a whole host of reasons. But there seems to be an almost institutional belief at this site that Darnold has been as successful as any QB possibly could under the circumstances, and that it’s unfair to judge him until we upgrade the roster. Even making allowances for gaps in talent and/or coaching, I absolutely believe that Watson or Mahomes would be outperforming what we’ve seen from Darnold, even if their most reliable targets were Robby Anderson and Ryan Griffin, and I absolutely believe that Darnold would not be putting up the numbers Watson and Mahomes have if he were throwing to Nuk Hopkins or Tyreek Hill. Obviously that’s not verifiable, but the only other way to approach this is to convince ourselves that Darnold’s secretly great but we just haven’t seen it because of his supporting cast. On the one hand I pray that it’s true, but on the other it’s exactly the kind of thinking that resulted in Sanchez getting a huge extension. I’m not saying Darnold is definitely not the guy, and I’m certainly not denying that the infrastructure here is not conducive to success for a young QB. But we need to be open to the possibility that he’s not, and more to the point Douglas absolutely cannot be operating under the assumption that QB is a settled matter.

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4 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Darnold would not be putting up the numbers Watson and Mahomes have if he were throwing to Nuk Hopkins or Tyreek Hill.

Watson has Bill O’Brien. Mahomes has Andy Reid. Darnold had Jeremy Bates, who was (and is) out of football. Now he has Dowell Loggains. 

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17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Watson has Bill O’Brien. Mahomes has Andy Reid. Darnold had Jeremy Bates, who was (and is) out of football. Now he has Dowell Loggains. 

No , dowell loggains is adam gase yes man who throws red flags. 

 

So.

Watson have o'Brien 

Mahomes has Reid's

 

And darnold has adam gase 

Gase control everything about the offense , just like love of your life rex controlled everything about the defense.

 

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15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Watson has Bill O’Brien. Mahomes has Andy Reid. Darnold had Jeremy Bates, who was (and is) out of football. Now he has Dowell Loggains. 

So do you think if the situations were reversed, the numbers would be too?

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41 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

So do you think if the situations were reversed, the numbers would be too?

I think Mahomes landed in the best situation, Watson landed in the next best, and Darnold landed in the seventh circle of hell.

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48 minutes ago, fusionCA said:

No , dowell loggains is adam gase yes man who throws red flags. 

 

So.

Watson have o'Brien 

Mahomes has Reid's

 

And darnold has adam gase 

Gase control everything about the offense , just like love of your life rex controlled everything about the defense.

 

Ok

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Mahomes landed in the best situation, Watson landed in the next best, and Darnold landed in the seventh circle of hell.

The QB stirs the drink buddy you need to add the right ingredients for success. 

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On 12/13/2019 at 7:02 AM, nj meadowlands said:

I woke up today not upset or surprised about what transpired on Thursday Night Football -- I think we all came to terms pretty quickly with the facts that the Ravens are awesome this year, the Jets are dreadful, and the Ravens would deliver the Jets yet another primetime spanking in their house.  In fact, I thought the 53 players who dressed yesterday played very hard, which (very sadly), is the best we can hope for these days.  I did wake up, however, enveloped by the sinking sense that despite the never ending free-fall of the past 10 years, we have not yet hit rock bottom.  No, that will occur in the 2020's.  Let me preface this by saying it is not a "SOJF" post, SAR, so you can carry on with selling your tickets for next week to Joe Bob from Western PA.  Rather, there are a few very concrete reasons why the State of the Jets on December 13, 2019 is more hopeless than it was before the Jets drafted their beacon of hope on April 26, 2018.

  • Sam Darnold - Now 9-15 as a starting QB, Darnold has thrown 34 touchdowns vs. 27 INTs, and lost 4 more fumbles.  Seemingly every week, he does something that makes your jaw drop in awe, and something else that makes you recoil in terror.  I still believe in Darnold, who is only 23, has a tremendous arm, processes extremely quickly, and might have a more impressive temperament than anyone in the league.  I still think he'll be good.  I think the "excuses" many make for him regarding our bottom-5 offensive line and below average skill position crew are perfectly valid.  I also think the cynics have every reason to question whether the kid who turned the ball over a lot at USC will ever grow out of being the guy who turns the ball over a lot in the NFL, whether his footwork can be salvaged from years of playing behind leaky offensive lines, or whether his decision making will ever improve when his boss's decision making is incomprehensible.
     
  • The Rest of the Roster - The biggest indictment on the Jets is that, aside from Darnold,  they have made no significant upgrades or long-term investments at the most important positions on the roster.  It's been discussed here and elsewhere ad nauseum.  Offensive line, edge rusher, cornerback, WR1.  Nothing.  Nada.  For YEARS.  They have instead wasted their time and capital building their defense into a unit that could compete with the running attack of the Providence Steam Roller in the 1930's.  Not very useful today, guys! The cupboard is so bare that I am rooting for the Jets to trade what are probably their two best players, Bell and Adams, to re-coup a few extra draft picks so that Joe Douglas -- himself an unknown quantity -- can have a legitimate chance at re-building this mess.  (Speaking of Joe Douglas, we all better hope his first Free Agency goes a little bit better than Ryan Kalil)  In a league where turnarounds are usually swift, the Jets' roster is probably 2 years away (which we seem to say every single December) from being remotely competitive.  You know what else happens in 2 years?  Sam Darnold will be an unrestricted free agent.  Depressing.
     
  • Adam Gase - I am not a Hire Planes to Get People Fired guy. I think the NYSF guy is a complete clown.  But the body of evidence against Adam Gase as a head coach in the NFL is staggering.  He is now 28-35 as a Head Coach and his teams seem to lose by 2 touchdowns every single week.  Everything we feared about Gase last January has been proven right.  He's a megalomaniac who treats his injured players like sh*t.  He can't figure out a way to properly utilize the best offensive weapon he's had since his time in Denver.  His second half offensive gameplans get eviscerated every single week.  It's almost as if we should not have already committed ANOTHER year of employ to this unimpressive white dude with the seemingly endless record of failing upward... 
     
  • The Johnsons - ...which leads us to the Johnson boys.  Lord only knows when Brother Woody will return from his eurotrip as Comrade President's ambassador to the UK.  Do we even want him back? (Elections have consequences, folks!)  When Woody was appointed ambassador, I was among the many of us ecstatic about the notion that maybe Brother Chris would run things differently.  Aside from being a little less socially inept, Brother Chris does not run things differently.  The Johnsons are the common thread presiding over the worst stretch in Jets history.  Worse than the 70's.  Worse than Kotite.  Woody Johnson is not a smart dude.  It took him 5 years to earn a history degree from Arizona State.  He is a dumb guy who was born rich, and who bought the Jets to be his toy.  The Jets are not a vocation to the Johnsons like the Steelers are to the Rooneys or the Giants to the Maras.  The Jets are dumb Woody's money making toy.  They are so profitable, and Woody has so little interest in what goes on on the field, that there is no real incentive to change anything (least of all, their dumbass reporting structure).

In summary,  Darnold may be the answer at QB, and he may not.  But given the state of the roster, the further teardown that is required to fix it, and the utter incompetence of the people tasked with putting it back together, we might never actually get to find out!  That, my friends, is ******* depressing.

Great post.

The worst part is no one forces them to make these Terrible roster moves.they literally have paid millions on bad advice for disastrous results. 

They could have given me a call for free and I would tell them hire people with proven results and accumen.

Even Joe D who has great history really has never done it before and while I hope he is great it was a gamble. When you suck at every thing at some point you have to start playing it safe somewhere....

They went with Gase out of no where....not in a million years would anyone with any rational thought had picked him

We will see...but I thi k we are probably doomed.

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59 minutes ago, fusionCA said:

No , dowell loggains is adam gase yes man who throws red flags. 

 

So.

Watson have o'Brien 

Mahomes has Reid's

 

And darnold has adam gase 

Gase control everything about the offense , just like love of your life rex controlled everything about the defense.

 

Rex was actually good at defense. He was had good record of running def. Gase is not good at off

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14 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The QB stirs the drink buddy you need to add the right ingredients for success. 

Hell yeah baby. Darnold is the Courvoisier and we’re dumping him into a dirty ash tray filled with rat piss. It’s called the MetLife Mojito

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3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hell yeah baby. Darnold is the Courvoisier and we’re dumping him into a dirty ash tray filled with rat piss. It’s called the MetLife Mojito

A favorite no doubt of the Johnson brothers. 

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35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Mahomes landed in the best situation, Watson landed in the next best, and Darnold landed in the seventh circle of hell.

I don’t disagree, but that doesn’t really answer the question.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

I don’t disagree, but that doesn’t really answer the question.

@T0mShane I’m not trying to be difficult, I’m legitimately interested in your take, because the question essentially boils down to whether you think Darnold is as good as Mahomes and Watson, all things being equal.

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Just now, dbatesman said:

I don’t disagree, but that doesn’t really answer the question.

I think there’s a substantial difference between throwing the ball up to DeAndre Hopkins and Travis Kelce, et al, than there is to throwing it up to Robby Anderson. Anderson has been bullied out of—what—five(?) TDs this season alone. I have no doubt that Mahomes and Watson are better QBs than Darnold regardless of situation, but I can’t bring myself to this place where Darnold is a Sanchez-type irredeemable bust yet.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

@T0mShane I’m not trying to be difficult, I’m legitimately interested in your take, because the question essentially boils down to whether you think Darnold is as good as Mahomes and Watson, all things being equal.

You should always feel free to punish me for my sh*tty takes. We’re CPFs

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53 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Rex was actually good at defense. He was had good record of running def. Gase is not good at off

i dont dispute it

all i am saying is that the Jets defense during Res days was all about Rex , it didnt matter who was name in only DC

 

and the same apply for Gase, everything about the offense good or bad is him.

 

not the ******* hobbit 

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2 hours ago, fusionCA said:

i dont dispute it

all i am saying is that the Jets defense during Res days was all about Rex , it didnt matter who was name in only DC

 

and the same apply for Gase, everything about the offense good or bad is him.

 

not the ******* hobbit 

Very true

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On 12/13/2019 at 10:02 AM, nj meadowlands said:

teardown that is required to fix it, and the utter incompetence of the people tasked with putting it back together, we might never actually get to find out!  That, my friends, is ******* depressing.

Teardown?

What does that even mean?

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20 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Really? Because a year after they drafted Watson and Mahomes, both the Texans and Chiefs traded a first rounder plus for veteran players.

Unless you’re blinded by a love for Mac, I think it’s overly obvious that between talent and coaching, Watson and Mahomes won the powerball while Sam’s still burning through $1 scratchers.

20 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I don’t disagree with this, btw. Both Watson and Mahomes were drafted into situations far better than the one Darnold was drafted into, for a whole host of reasons. But there seems to be an almost institutional belief at this site that Darnold has been as successful as any QB possibly could under the circumstances, and that it’s unfair to judge him until we upgrade the roster. Even making allowances for gaps in talent and/or coaching, I absolutely believe that Watson or Mahomes would be outperforming what we’ve seen from Darnold, even if their most reliable targets were Robby Anderson and Ryan Griffin, and I absolutely believe that Darnold would not be putting up the numbers Watson and Mahomes have if he were throwing to Nuk Hopkins or Tyreek Hill. Obviously that’s not verifiable, but the only other way to approach this is to convince ourselves that Darnold’s secretly great but we just haven’t seen it because of his supporting cast. On the one hand I pray that it’s true, but on the other it’s exactly the kind of thinking that resulted in Sanchez getting a huge extension. I’m not saying Darnold is definitely not the guy, and I’m certainly not denying that the infrastructure here is not conducive to success for a young QB. But we need to be open to the possibility that he’s not, and more to the point Douglas absolutely cannot be operating under the assumption that QB is a settled matter.

I think Mahomes and Watson are both better than Sam, but that shouldn’t factor into the evaluation for Sam. If Sam turns out to be the next best QB after those two for the next 10 years, it’d be foolish to cut bait just because he’s not Mahomes and we could have/should have had Mahomes.

Sam needs more time to settle into being an NFL QB. Call it an excuse if it fits your narrative, but he simply doesn’t have the years of mental or physical reps that other high picks generally have. Allowing him that time is not akin to handing Sanchez his extension. Sanchez’s extension was idiotic for a myriad reasons not excluding that it was an apology for chasing Peyton in FA. But the main difference here is that Sanchez was up but mostly down with a top 3 NFL roster during his evaluation period, whereas Sam has been up but mostly down with a bottom 2 NFL roster thus far in his evaluation period.

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