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YOU own the NYJ. What actions do you take on 12/30/19 ?

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12/30 check list if I owned the Jets

1) Sit with JD and see what he thinks about Gase

2) unless JD feels strongly Gase has to go, I would announce Gase is being retained

3) I’ll then see if Gase wants to make changes to his coaching staff. Aside from OL coach, I’m assuming no

4) Finish extending players we see as long term fits

5) Trade or cut players who are not long term fits

6) I will then direct JD and Gase to focus on building the team through the draft and be selective in FA. FA’s have to fit the culture we want, system we want to run and have to be at need positions

 

 

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1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Fire everyone.

Hire competent people to run the organization. 

Refund PSL money. 

Buy JetNation from @Maxman  and give all members free t-shirts. 

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

1. Thank Gase for his time, and release him.

2. Organizational Re-Org:  Coaches -> Head Coach -> General Manager -> Pres. of Football Operations.  Ownership's only role is hiring the Pres of Football Ops, nothing below that level.

3. Hire a competent professional president of Football Ops.  That person decides to keep Douglas or not (he will keep him, I think).

4. Douglas hires a new Coach.  That Coach chooses his own Assistant Coaches (within reason).

5. Trade Adams for a 2020 #1 Pick.

6. Trade Bell for a 2020 Best Pick Offered (lets say a #3).

7. Free Agent Priorities:  2 best O-Linemen regardless of cost.  1x Edge player.  1x Cornerback.  1x average strong Safety

8. Draft Priorities:  #1 WR.  2 best O-linemen our picks can acquire.  RB.  #2 WR is Anderson is too expesive or unwilling to be the @2/@3 he is best suited to be.

2020:  

Darnold has four new starting O-linemen, minimum, 2x FA, 2x top draft picks.  A new #1 WR.  Crowder stays in the slot.  Anderson stays if affordable as the #2/#2 guy.  Herndon and Griffin are both back.  Powell and draft pick and Montgomery perhaps at RB.

Defense has to make do.  Gets an edge, a safety and a CB in free agency.   The rest must come from cheap gap-filler JAG FA's (hopefully with potential), late round draft picks, or the guys we already have.   we have to hope LB as a position stays more healthy in 2020, frankly, we lack enough assets to sign or draft more LB'ers.

That's my plan.

 

I think you're missing part of step 1 in your plan, which could change step 3. Forgot to ask if Douglas actually wants to retain Gase in the first place. You've eliminated it as a possibility, but what if Gase is truly his first choice? 

If the prerequisite for all is fire Gase, then you're not really giving your GM or Ops people the leeway you outline, which presumes the GM gets to pick his own HC. You'd be setting yourself up as being as big of a meddlesome owner as there is in the NFL (other than an owner like Jerry who is also his team's GM; but then as GM he's not really meddling so much as filling the GM position poorly). If you're going to do all that then why bother with the façade/sham hiring of 2 layers of underlings between you and the HC if you're just going to overrule them anyway when you see fit? ;) 

Also if the head of football ops does nothing but decide whether or not to retain the GM, that's not much of a position to fill; may as well just hire a consultant on an as-needed basis. Any ongoing head of football ops would have significant input into the hiring/firing of a team's HC, even if there's a separate GM. Also it's not like hiring a GM or HC are frequent events (or anyway it shouldn't be if the GM and Ops guys are any good at their jobs).

I don't see how you'd hire a head of football operations who's the GM's boss, and then he has no real say as to which HC gets hired or fired, other than the owner and GM merely noting his toothless agreement or objection (and in this case, neither of them have any say in firing the HC unless they happen to agree with the owner). You're not letting your Ops mgr succeed at his job, which is to help his GM even if it means forcefully steering him in the right direction to save him from himself from time to time (and perhaps save him from the personal pressure of decisions to hire/fire those with whom he has personal relationships that could cloud this judgment).

The hard part is the best solution is the Ops and GM having equal say, but then that makes the owner the tie breaker in cases where they don't agree. Well at least Warfish the new know-nothing, meddlesome, soon-to-be-hated owner of the NYJ, will choosing among the top 2 HC candidates rather than putting your thumb on the scale choosing among all the possible HC candidates in the country.  

I kid, I kid. :rl: 

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1 hour ago, southtown24th said:

dumb

No ideas. I get it.

29 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

^ guessing its a response to the OP.

As if Ozzie wouldn't laugh himself dizzy if the jets approached. Leave you division winning team with an MVp for THIS?

Ozzie is no longer the GM of The Ravens so where / what exactly would (as you describe it) he be leaving??

He is smart and smart people "dont laugh themselves dizzy".  They fully analyze all professional opportunities esp ones with ownership and 8 figure compensation on the table.

But back on topic. Remember this is not about the Johnsons. This is all about  what would YOU do as the owner of the NYJ on 12/30 but hey if you cant get the concept thats cool.

 

 

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If I owned the Jets, I do nothing.  I hired Joe Douglas and nothing has changed re: him specifically, so I let him do this job.

Now, if I'm Joe Douglas, I try and trade Jamal Adams, the return he can bring is greater than the production he can bring from his position, certainly at least on an extension.  The only non role-player FAs I'm interested in are offensive lineman.  I resign Robby Anderson.  But, in general, I tell ownership what I likely told ownership from Day 1 that got me the job.  This is going to be a process to do this right, but we're going to progress forward with each move.

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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

If I owned the Jets, I do nothing.  I hired Joe Douglas and nothing has changed re: him specifically, so I let him do this job.

Now, if I'm Joe Douglas, I try and trade Jamal Adams, the return he can bring is greater than the production he can bring from his position, certainly at least on an extension.  The only non role-player FAs I'm interested in are offensive lineman.  I resign Robby Anderson.  But, in general, I tell ownership what I likely told ownership from Day 1 that got me the job.  This is going to be a process to do this right, but we're going to progress forward with each move.

Good Post Teddy!!

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11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think you're missing part of step 1 in your plan, which could change step 3. Forgot to ask if Douglas actually wants to retain Gase in the first place. You've eliminated it as a possibility, but what if Gase is truly his first choice? 

If the prerequisite for all is fire Gase, then you're not really giving your GM or Ops people the leeway you outline, which presumes the GM gets to pick his own HC. You'd be setting yourself up as being as big of a meddlesome owner as there is in the NFL (other than an owner like Jerry who is also his team's GM; but then as GM he's not really meddling so much as filling the GM position poorly). If you're going to do all that then why bother with the façade/sham hiring of 2 layers of underlings between you and the HC if you're just going to overrule them anyway when you see fit? ;) 

Fair point.  Shift #1 then below to an appropriate point where Douglas gets to hire his Coach.  If he wants Gase, so be it, althought I would think materially less of him in that case, I maintain it must be the GM's call, not the Owner's call.  If Douglas wants to put his own tenure on the line for Gase, it's his call.

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Also if the head of football ops does nothing but decide whether or not to retain the GM, that's not much of a position to fill; may as well just hire a consultant on an as-needed basis. Any ongoing head of football ops would have significant input into the hiring/firing of a team's HC, even if there's a separate GM. Also it's not like hiring a GM or HC are frequent events (or anyway it shouldn't be if the GM and Ops guys are any good at their jobs).

I don't see how you'd hire a head of football operations who's the GM's boss, and then he has no real say as to which HC gets hired or fired, other than the owner and GM merely noting his toothless agreement or objection (and in this case, neither of them have any say in firing the HC unless they happen to agree with the owner). You're not letting your Ops mgr succeed at his job, which is to help his GM even if it means forcefully steering him in the right direction to save him from himself from time to time (and perhaps save him from the personal pressure of decisions to hire/fire those with whom he has personal relationships that could cloud this judgment).

Presidents of Football Operations do alot more than decide if the GM stays or goes.  They run the operations of the team.  They are Football Industry CEO's.  

And he gets "no say" only if you believe your boss gets "no say" in what you do at work.  I know things I am responsible for my boss gets his say too, to me, directly.  You cannot Org. Chart that out of human hierarchies. 

End of the day, like Douglas and Gase, if the new PoFOps wants to meddle, he can.  If he wants to overrule, he can.  He is the boss.  Except unlike an Owner, he is a professional football man (or should be).  Most good PoFOps don't meddle, they work with their GM's, and GM's can explain their decisions and validate them.  as they should.

I most certainly didn't intend to make these levels seem as ridgid as you seem to think.  Workplaces don't work that way.  Gase would still get to voice opinions on players, for example, but the GM would make the final call, knowing his boss (The PoFOps) will judge him for it. Like any workplace.  Some call it meddling, some call it collaboration.  Guess it depends on the outcome, lol. 

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The hard part is the best solution is the Ops and GM having equal say, but then that makes the owner the tie breaker in cases where they don't agree. Well at least Warfish the new know-nothing, meddlesome, soon-to-be-hated owner of the NYJ, will choosing among the top 2 HC candidates rather than putting your thumb on the scale choosing among all the possible HC candidates in the country.  

I kid, I kid. :rl: 

No, the Ops and GM should never, ever, have "equal say".  Equal say is the worst way to run a ship, because then you need 9as you say) tie breakers, and Owners need out of football Ops decisions.  And the GM needs a clear cut knowledge of who he reports to.  Not the Owner, the PoFOps.

And even in this hierarchy,. the Owners still owns the team.  That finger is always hovering over the scale, but good owners don't use it except in the most dire or necessary situations.  if they have to, it means they have the wrong PoFOps.  

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

You're 100% right, Gase is NOT getting fired, I agree.  I would move on, in MY plan, because I simply don't believe in him or his system as an NFL Head Coach.  I believe he will ultimately prove me right on him, sadly.

But you're right, he is here next year, I think that's set in stone.  The Johnson's will not pay three Coaches at once.  

In the same vein, the broken and dysfunctional Org. Chart of the Jets will also not be fixed next year (or ever).  

I reallt don't like that Douglas is indebted to Gase tho.  I won't lie.  I have some optimism re: Douglas, but he (as GM) needs 100% independence from Gase, the Coach.  IMO.

I too am not confident in the outcome, I just dont really see anyway around it.  I dont think Joe Douglas is forever indebted to Gase.  He'll fire him when and if the time warrants it. 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I don;t blame Gase at all for the state of the roster, I just think his past record and his record her so far clearly indicates he is a bad head coach.  The reason he was brought here and to Miami before that was to take the QBs to a next level.  In both cases they got worse.

It's bad when you make a terrible mistake choosing a head coach.  It is worse to hang on to that mistake.

Have no fear he will be here for at least two more years but they will be like Rex's and Bowles last two years.  A total waste of time.

Again, I'm not optimistic.  Nothing about Adam Gase instills any confidence in me he's the guy to turn it around, just more kind of a victim of circumstance right now and I think it's the right thing to do to see what him and Douglas can do.  Worse case scenario, they can identify some talent, Gase continues to flounder and the cupboard isnt as bare for the next guy. 

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1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Shane’s narrative of blaming Gase for Macs failure is absurd. Don’t fall for it. Most people realize that he had a history as a HC and OC before he was saddled with Mac’s roster and it was all bad except for the Peyton years.

I get that he’s not going anywhere, and I get that it’s best to keep Sam in the same offense for once. However, I disagree that firing him 11 months in would seem short-sighted. He’s a proven loser who doesn’t enhance a QB or an offense’s effectiveness.

Sam will be on the 3rd (and for all intents and purposes, “show me”) yr of his rookie deal next year. If Gase is absolved for any blame because of “Mac’s roster”, then when Douglass improves the roster and the jets get a few more wins next year but Gase continues to do Gase things, will it then be prudent to move on from him while Sam goes into the fourth year of his rookie deal with a new coach? Or will we then be saddled with the same Gase who is a proven loser just because Sam and Douglass are dragging him to competency?

I’d say it’s better the Johnsons admit they were wrong, pull the plug on this experiment, and go get someone who isn’t a proven loser to work with Sam and Douglass over the next two years of Sam’s deal to see if we have our FQB or if we need to draft another one in ‘21 and groom him while Sam plays out his 5th year here.

Shane doesnt influence my thinking in any way shape or form.  If anything, when we agree I go look in the mirror and try to find the error in my ways.  When we land in the same place I feel the dirt a shower cant get rid of but I just to where the stench.  This is one I'm comfortable in the stank namely because my opinion really doesnt matter.  Adam Gase isnt losing his job. 

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

I too am not confident in the outcome, I just dont really see anyway around it.  I dont think Joe Douglas is forever indebted to Gase.  He'll fire him when and if the time warrants it. 

Outside of Jets fans, and Manish Metha, I don't see the ROI on firing Gase this offseason.  We're not the most attractive job this offseason and we're sending a message that in a year with this many injuries, and this little talent on the field, we'll fire you in one year.  I just don't see how it makes sense to do it this year.

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First hire a Pres of Operations to control EVERYTHING. Then....Fire Gase and everyone else and hire the best available HC and there should be some who'd be willing to work in NY with Sam since he's an attractive piece to have for an up and coming HC.  Next.....Trades.....  QW for a 1st, Adams for a 1st (if not more take the 1st, Bell for whatever you can get say a 3rd to clear his salary off the books.  Right there you've got 3 # 1 picks to go along with the other picks to redo this pathetic roster.  With the picks, you can get a #1 WR prospect, an edge, a RB and another OL and a CB with the first 5 picks.  FA...sign 3 top OL and a #1 CB. We have a boatload of cash to use in FA. 

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1- Relieve Gase of his duties 

2- Request an interview with Greg Roman and pay him well to come here and build the entire offense around Sam, much like he did for San Fran with Kaep and for Baltimore with Jackson.

3- Trade Jamal to Dallas for their #1 pick (21st as of now) and atleast another 3rd rounder. I'd dangle Bell but wouldn't trade him for anything less than a high 3rd. 

4- Resign Brian Poole (3yr 27 mil), Robby (3yr 30-33 mil) Beachum and Lewis on cheap deals. Not sure about Jenkins yet 

5- Sign Joe Thuney, Brandon Scherff, Yannick Ngakoue, Karl Joseph and the best K available lol

6- at 9 I'm taking Juedy or Lamb. At 21 I would take Tyler Biadasz (C Wisconsin), at 44 I would select Trey Smith (OT Tenn). In the 3rd round I'd go defense and draft the best CB and Edge available. 

 

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40 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Outside of Jets fans, and Manish Metha, I don't see the ROI on firing Gase this offseason.  We're not the most attractive job this offseason and we're sending a message that in a year with this many injuries, and this little talent on the field, we'll fire you in one year.  I just don't see how it makes sense to do it this year.

So even though Gase is patently and obviously horrible, you're saying it would be MORE horrible if he's fired?  You are probably right, but allow me to vent:  The Jets hire TERRIBLE HCs.  Almost always.  Then they hold them way too long (4 years for Bowles???  really???  more for Rex?).

I have zero confidence Gase will be any better as a HC next year.  He doesn't use the weapons around him and is a stubborn mule.  No like what I see here so far.  

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31 minutes ago, Dcat said:

So even though Gase is patently and obviously horrible, you're saying it would be MORE horrible if he's fired?  You are probably right, but allow me to vent:  The Jets hire TERRIBLE HCs.  Almost always.  Then they hold them way too long (4 years for Bowles???  really???  more for Rex?).

I have zero confidence Gase will be any better as a HC next year.  He doesn't use the weapons around him and is a stubborn mule.  No like what I see here so far.  

I'm saying that Gase isn't the problem.  Macc blowing 5 consecutive drafts, and doing even worse in free agency, while criminally neglecting the offensive line, is the problem.

I'm saying that the roster is the problem, and there's not a coach out there that would compete with this roster.  As far as HCs are concerned, the genius de jour is whoever's team is talented and hot that season.  I'm not hearing McVay or Pederson in that way anymore.  The only genius who's stood the test of time is belichick, and he's a rampant cheater.  If Joe Douglas does a great job, Adam Gase, or whomever is the coach when this mess is cleaned up, will be the genius coach of the NYJ.

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8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I'm saying that Gase isn't the problem.  Macc blowing 5 consecutive drafts, and doing even worse in free agency, while criminally neglecting the offensive line, is the problem.

I'm saying that the roster is the problem, and there's not a coach out there that would compete with this roster.  As far as HCs are concerned, the genius de jour is whoever's team is talented and hot that season.  I'm not hearing McVay or Pederson in that way anymore.  The only genius who's stood the test of time is belichick, and he's a rampant cheater.  If Joe Douglas does a great job, Adam Gase, or whomever is the coach when this mess is cleaned up, will be the genius coach of the NYJ.

Has Adam Gase shown you that he is a good head coach.  Put aside the talent, look at things out side of talent.

Play design, play calling, development of QB.

Now go back and look at his previous resume (which the jets seem to have ignored).

You can in fact have bad talent and a bad coach and you need to correct both as soon as you can because a bad coach can make your talent look worse than it is and a good coach can make your talent look better.

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2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

1) Hiring a top notch military person with expertise in war planning/games to analyze organization from the ground up treating opponents as military foes and give advice on shaping organizational strategy accordingly. Keep this person full time if deemed necessary.


2) Hiring top notch artificial intelligence/business intelligence person to enhance operations from the ground up.


3) Give GM Douglas direct fire/hire power of coaching staff with suggestion (not demand) of moving on from Gase & strength/condition coach Gulac. Recommend Alosi as potential replacement for Gulac.

 

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15 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Has Adam Gase shown you that he is a good head coach.  Put aside the talent, look at things out side of talent.

Play design, play calling, development of QB.

Now go back and look at his previous resume (which the jets seem to have ignored).

You can in fact have bad talent and a bad coach and you need to correct both as soon as you can because a bad coach can make your talent look worse than it is and a good coach can make your talent look better.

How, specifically, do you isolate a coach from the talent?  Gase hasn't shown me that he's a good head coach, but he hasn't shown me that he's a bad one either.  He's shown me that he can lose with a losing roster.  As I've said before, I think there's coaches on both ends of the spectrum, but for the bulk of these guys, they're a product of their rosters.  Schotty is a great example of this.  When Schotty was here, Jets fans arguments against him essentially distilled down to the idea that he didn't understand how 1st downs worked.  Now, he's the OC for a top 5 offense.  Did Schotty suddenly learn to coach, or are the Russell Wilson led Seahawks meaningfully better than the Mark Sanchez led Jets.  And, even if you want to make the argument that Schotty did suddenly learn to coach, why have two top tier QBs, Rivers and Brees, credited him with helping them reach their level of success.

Play design and play calling look a lot better with proper execution.  Was Darnold's bad INT a bad play call, or was the issue execution?  I'd say Darnold blew it.  Additionally, where's the credit for Gase on the Jets positive drives this game?  That's how Jets fans evaluate coaches.  Something goes well, it's the players, and a sure sign that Darnold is a FQB.  Something goes bad, and it's Gase, who is, ruining a sure thing FQB.  As for play design, there's not a lot of reinventing of the wheel, we like to pretend that there's a million secret plays, but this just isn't the case.  As for development of a QB, what if, and I know this is crazy, Darnold just isn't that good, and makes the same mistakes he made in college?

The overall thesis remains the same, fire gase, don't fire gase, it really is minimally impactful on the Jets vs. the difference in the team that will result from Douglas not doing the worst job in the NFL over the course of 5 years.  Frankly, there's an argument to be made that Gase is getting more out of this team than could be expected, when you consider the last 5 drafts.

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19 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

How, specifically, do you isolate a coach from the talent?  Gase hasn't shown me that he's a good head coach, but he hasn't shown me that he's a bad one either.  He's shown me that he can lose with a losing roster.  As I've said before, I think there's coaches on both ends of the spectrum, but for the bulk of these guys, they're a product of their rosters.  Schotty is a great example of this.  When Schotty was here, Jets fans arguments against him essentially distilled down to the idea that he didn't understand how 1st downs worked.  Now, he's the OC for a top 5 offense.  Did Schotty suddenly learn to coach, or are the Russell Wilson led Seahawks meaningfully better than the Mark Sanchez led Jets.  And, even if you want to make the argument that Schotty did suddenly learn to coach, why have two top tier QBs, Rivers and Brees, credited him with helping them reach their level of success.

Play design and play calling look a lot better with proper execution.  Was Darnold's bad INT a bad play call, or was the issue execution?  I'd say Darnold blew it.  Additionally, where's the credit for Gase on the Jets positive drives this game?  That's how Jets fans evaluate coaches.  Something goes well, it's the players, and a sure sign that Darnold is a FQB.  Something goes bad, and it's Gase, who is, ruining a sure thing FQB.  As for play design, there's not a lot of reinventing of the wheel, we like to pretend that there's a million secret plays, but this just isn't the case.  As for development of a QB, what if, and I know this is crazy, Darnold just isn't that good, and makes the same mistakes he made in college?

The overall thesis remains the same, fire gase, don't fire gase, it really is minimally impactful on the Jets vs. the difference in the team that will result from Douglas not doing the worst job in the NFL over the course of 5 years.  Frankly, there's an argument to be made that Gase is getting more out of this team than could be expected, when you consider the last 5 drafts.

Would adam gase create an offense built around lamar jackson.

Good coaches can make poor talent better.

Bad coaches can make good talent worse.

Meh coaches are totally reliant on their talent.

If we follow your line then it 100% totally does not matter who the coach is.  Todd Bowles, Richie Kotie were acceptable because they just did not have enough talent.

I want a good coach because imo you need a good coach to win it all.

You know who were good coaches?  Guys like gailey, morton and bates who had the same awful talent and their offenses looked better than what we have.

Gase has a year in chicago as oc, 3 year as hc in miami and his time here so far, he has shown nothing to suggest he is worth waiting for.

In any case as I have said before no worries for the Gase supporters because the GM and owner like him and he is going no where for at least two more years after this one.

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32 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

How, specifically, do you isolate a coach from the talent?  Gase hasn't shown me that he's a good head coach, but he hasn't shown me that he's a bad one either.  He's shown me that he can lose with a losing roster.  As I've said before, I think there's coaches on both ends of the spectrum, but for the bulk of these guys, they're a product of their rosters.  Schotty is a great example of this.  When Schotty was here, Jets fans arguments against him essentially distilled down to the idea that he didn't understand how 1st downs worked.  Now, he's the OC for a top 5 offense.  Did Schotty suddenly learn to coach, or are the Russell Wilson led Seahawks meaningfully better than the Mark Sanchez led Jets.  And, even if you want to make the argument that Schotty did suddenly learn to coach, why have two top tier QBs, Rivers and Brees, credited him with helping them reach their level of success.

Play design and play calling look a lot better with proper execution.  Was Darnold's bad INT a bad play call, or was the issue execution?  I'd say Darnold blew it.  Additionally, where's the credit for Gase on the Jets positive drives this game?  That's how Jets fans evaluate coaches.  Something goes well, it's the players, and a sure sign that Darnold is a FQB.  Something goes bad, and it's Gase, who is, ruining a sure thing FQB.  As for play design, there's not a lot of reinventing of the wheel, we like to pretend that there's a million secret plays, but this just isn't the case.  As for development of a QB, what if, and I know this is crazy, Darnold just isn't that good, and makes the same mistakes he made in college?

 The overall thesis remains the same, fire gase, don't fire gase, it really is minimally impactful on the Jets vs. the difference in the team that will result from Douglas not doing the worst job in the NFL over the course of 5 years.  Frankly, there's an argument to be made that Gase is getting more out of this team than could be expected, when you consider the last 5 drafts.

Have we mentioned that Darnold is only 22  years old?

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I think the appropriate levers in the FO have been pulled.

JD hire is huge, but just as importantly is JD mandating increased salaries to the front office to secure good people including Savage.  This off season it should start to pay dividends.

Sams record is 5-6 this year. Mediocre at best but we know how bad this supporting cast is and I actually feel very good about him. Getting an OL and another playmaker makes us a perennial playoff contender.

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48 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

How, specifically, do you isolate a coach from the talent?  Gase hasn't shown me that he's a good head coach, but he hasn't shown me that he's a bad one either.  He's shown me that he can lose with a losing roster.  As I've said before, I think there's coaches on both ends of the spectrum, but for the bulk of these guys, they're a product of their rosters.  Schotty is a great example of this.  When Schotty was here, Jets fans arguments against him essentially distilled down to the idea that he didn't understand how 1st downs worked.  Now, he's the OC for a top 5 offense.  Did Schotty suddenly learn to coach, or are the Russell Wilson led Seahawks meaningfully better than the Mark Sanchez led Jets.  And, even if you want to make the argument that Schotty did suddenly learn to coach, why have two top tier QBs, Rivers and Brees, credited him with helping them reach their level of success.

Play design and play calling look a lot better with proper execution.  Was Darnold's bad INT a bad play call, or was the issue execution?  I'd say Darnold blew it.  Additionally, where's the credit for Gase on the Jets positive drives this game?  That's how Jets fans evaluate coaches.  Something goes well, it's the players, and a sure sign that Darnold is a FQB.  Something goes bad, and it's Gase, who is, ruining a sure thing FQB.  As for play design, there's not a lot of reinventing of the wheel, we like to pretend that there's a million secret plays, but this just isn't the case.  As for development of a QB, what if, and I know this is crazy, Darnold just isn't that good, and makes the same mistakes he made in college?

The overall thesis remains the same, fire gase, don't fire gase, it really is minimally impactful on the Jets vs. the difference in the team that will result from Douglas not doing the worst job in the NFL over the course of 5 years.  Frankly, there's an argument to be made that Gase is getting more out of this team than could be expected, when you consider the last 5 drafts.

Gase hasn’t shown you he’s a bad head coach? What does he have to do at this point? Just the fact that he’s being out coached week in and week out after halftime is enough to know. He’s brutally bad and it’s obvious to everyone.  

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3 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

No ideas. I get it.

Ozzie is no longer the GM of The Ravens so where / what exactly would (as you describe it) he be leaving??

He is smart and smart people "dont laugh themselves dizzy".  They fully analyze all professional opportunities esp ones with ownership and 8 figure compensation on the table.

But back on topic. Remember this is not about the Johnsons. This is all about  what would YOU do as the owner of the NYJ on 12/30 but hey if you cant get the concept thats cool.

 

 

Ozzie Newsome is still under contract with the Ravens.  I believe that Bisciotti called him the highest paid consultant in the NFL.  He still sat at the head of the table in the draft room with DeCosta on his right.  They are buds.  The whole step down thing was because Ozzie was getting older and wanted to wind down and they didn't want DeCosta to get poached.  Can't see why Ozzie would taint his legacy, and even the interview would taint him. 

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This mythical President of Football Operations position is just a way for you guys to find a position to bring that fat ******* carpetbagger back.  Never mind that he rubber stamped Tannenbaum, Sparano for OC, and Todd Bowles.  It is a position only taken by guys to old and past it to remain as coach or GM.  No thank you.  Pick one of those that isn't an idiot and do away with the middle man.

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7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

This mythical President of Football Operations position is just a way for you guys to find a position to bring that fat ******* carpetbagger back.  Never mind that he rubber stamped Tannenbaum, Sparano for OC, and Todd Bowles.  It is a position only taken by guys to old and past it to remain as coach or GM.  No thank you.  Pick one of those that isn't an idiot and do away with the middle man.

You're forgetting about recommending/endorsing Bradway, which led to half a decade of Herm, which led to my infantile username. 

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49 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Would adam gase create an offense built around lamar jackson.

Good coaches can make poor talent better.

Bad coaches can make good talent worse.

Meh coaches are totally reliant on their talent.

If we follow your line then it 100% totally does not matter who the coach is.  Todd Bowles, Richie Kotie were acceptable because they just did not have enough talent.

I want a good coach because imo you need a good coach to win it all.

You know who were good coaches?  Guys like gailey, morton and bates who had the same awful talent and their offenses looked better than what we have.

Gase has a year in chicago as oc, 3 year as hc in miami and his time here so far, he has shown nothing to suggest he is worth waiting for.

In any case as I have said before no worries for the Gase supporters because the GM and owner like him and he is going no where for at least two more years after this one.

I don't know if Adam Gase would build an offense around Lamar Jackson, because Adam Gase doesn't have Lamar Jackson.

Today, the 2019 Jets, it really doesn't matter who the coach is.  I said this before Gase was even hired, so it's not about defending Gase at all.  I'm not a Gase supporter any more than I was a Bowles supporter.  I'm a, Macc did such an exceptionally bad job that there's no coach saving this team.

I think it's also silly to say that we had the same talent on offense as the past few years.  Our offensive line is worse, our QB has more raw talent, but isn't as seasoned at the position as the past QBs, and our WRs are worse.  We upgraded the one position that's almost fully reliant on the offensive line, and you're seeing why that wasn't a good idea.

Anyway, if I'm wrong... Explain Schotty's current success, please.

32 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Gase hasn’t shown you he’s a bad head coach? What does he have to do at this point? Just the fact that he’s being out coached week in and week out after halftime is enough to know. He’s brutally bad and it’s obvious to everyone.  

5 wins is about what I imagined this team would have this year.  Here we are.  Most of the non-homers here predicted a max of around 7 wins.  Now people are killing the coach for winning essentially how many games they thought the team would win in the first place.

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35 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Ozzie Newsome is still under contract with the Ravens.  I believe that Bisciotti called him the highest paid consultant in the NFL.  He still sat at the head of the table in the draft room with DeCosta on his right.  They are buds.  The whole step down thing was because Ozzie was getting older and wanted to wind down and they didn't want DeCosta to get poached.  Can't see why Ozzie would taint his legacy, and even the interview would taint him. 

You make fair points but remember I describe my idea as fantasy in the first post. Having said that 8 figures and and some ownership to build what would essentially be an expansion team after a 100% purge and YOU as the interviewer and the non-meddlesome owner could prove tempting to someone looking to cement themselves as one of the greats.

 

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