Appreciate Where Darnold Is ...

[KRL]

Darnold's performance against BAL (18/32, 218 yds, 2 TD, INT) was much
better than people realize.  Check out what BAL defense has done against
other QB's on better teams with better rosters and better running games:

Josh Allen (17/39, 146 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127868     

Jimmy Garoppolo (15/21, 165 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128027   

Jared Goff (26/37, 212 yds, 2 INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128012  

Deshaun Watson (18/29, 169 yds, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128047  

Russell Wilson (20/41, 241 yds, 1 TD, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127985

But don't let facts get in the way of your "hot takes" 

[BCJet]

10 minutes ago, KRL said:

Darnold's performance against BAL (18/32, 218 yds, 2 TD, INT) was much
better than people realize.  Check out what BAL defense has done against
other QB's on better teams with better rosters and better running games:

Josh Allen (17/39, 146 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127868     

Jimmy Garoppolo (15/21, 165 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128027   

Jared Goff (26/37, 212 yds, 2 INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128012  

Deshaun Watson (18/29, 169 yds, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128047  

Russell Wilson (20/41, 241 yds, 1 TD, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127985

But don't let facts get in the way of your "hot takes" 

Totally agree. 

The only thing I cared about seeing Thursday night was that Darnold didnt fall apart like against New England and he clearly didnt.  Yea, we would all like to see him tearing the league up at 22, but the reality is that rarely happens and more importantly there are a ton of outside factors that affect the QBs play, mainly the coach and Oline.  

As fans we are micro-analyzing not just game by game, but literally throw by throw and sometimes fail to realize that even Aaron Rogers misses throws sometimes.  

I just want Sam to finish the year strong and really work on his mechanics this offseason so that he becomes more consistent on the plays that dont break down.

[nico002]

I saw Darnold throw 5 TDs Thursday to get 2... Jamison dropped one, Robby Dropped one, Smith Dropped one. 

[Anthony Jet]

Just now, nico002 said:

I saw Darnold throw 5 TDs Thursday to get 2... Jamison dropped one, Robby Dropped one, Smith Dropped one. 

I get the point but he still got the Jamison TD

[nico002]

2 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

I get the point but he still got the Jamison TD

Yes but he made two TD worthy plays to get 1. Kid is carrying this team on his mother fu cking back.

[SummerofSam14]

I know stats are meaningless, but I’d love to see Sams overall numbers if you take away the New  England disaster. 

[JustInFudge]

22 minutes ago, SummerofSam14 said:

I know stats are meaningless, but I’d love to see Sams overall numbers if you take away the New  England disaster. 

NE and Jax were clear outliers, the haters will tell you that if you take away the bad you have to also take away the good.  It's impossible for them to separate and call those games outliers even though it's clear as day based on rest of the way he's played this season they were (hasnt thrown more than 1 INT in any other games other than those 2).  He had 7 INT's in 2 games.  Yes, it makes his season look much different.

 

[Butterfield]

He is 27th overall in qb rating.  (Oops, after thursday he is now 33rd) Mediocre at best.  And that is ok.  Better than the jets have had in a long time.

[Barry McCockinner]

I think the answer to the question "where is Darnold" in terms of his development speaks to a lot more than his stat line against the Ravens. It just seems like a thing thrown out there to prop him up in defense of some criticism. 

 

[Jets723]

56 minutes ago, nico002 said:

I saw Darnold throw 5 TDs Thursday to get 2... Jamison dropped one, Robby Dropped one, Smith Dropped one. 

True.  Although Robby in fairness has the guy grabbing him and it should have been a penalty.  The worst was the Smith one where he stopped.  Sam was pissed and of course threw a pick a couple plays later

[Sammybighead]

He's looked good past six weeks. I'm my opinion, if you're expectation is him to carry a practice squad to the Superbowl in his second year otherwise he's a bust, sorry, but you're being ridiculous. 

It's not like we have a ready made team and we're just waiting for the light to go on like we were with Sanchez. This kid is battling the opponent, his own team, his coaching staff, hostile jets fans and absurdly lofty expectations. And he's doing a hell of a job.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

Darnold's performance against BAL (18/32, 218 yds, 2 TD, INT) was much
better than people realize.  Check out what BAL defense has done against
other QB's on better teams with better rosters and better running games:

Josh Allen (17/39, 146 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127868     

Jimmy Garoppolo (15/21, 165 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128027   

Jared Goff (26/37, 212 yds, 2 INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128012  

Deshaun Watson (18/29, 169 yds, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128047  

Russell Wilson (20/41, 241 yds, 1 TD, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127985

But don't let facts get in the way of your "hot takes" 

agree and don't agree. missed out on two red zone scores at the end of the first half.  i don't know how much latitude darnold has when calling a play but he could've called something different on the 4th down play and he could've thrown the ball away on the int.  and then there was the fumble.  arguably these miscues are caused by bad oline play but sam gets the balls first and is the one that controls where it goes.

[Sammybighead]

Perfect synopsis of Sam and the issues we face:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jetswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/14/jets-should-lean-into-sam-darnolds-strengths-ravens-lamar-jackson/amp/

[IndianaJet]

4 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Perfect synopsis of Sam and the issues we face:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jetswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/14/jets-should-lean-into-sam-darnolds-strengths-ravens-lamar-jackson/amp/

It's kind of garbage when "writers" pick and choose facts to support their narrative.

So in this article, the premise is that Gase is a terrible coach because he's forcing Darnold to be a pocket passer when he's clearly better rolling out.

Of course this just completely ignores the fact that Gase was roundly criticized for his play calls on both 4th downs when - wait for it - he called plays that required Darnold to roll out.

[playtowinthegame]

Baker Mayfield won on the road at Baltimore.

20/30, 342 yds, 1 TD, INT

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128018

[Jetster]

29 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

True.  Although Robby in fairness has the guy grabbing him and it should have been a penalty.  The worst was the Smith one where he stopped.  Sam was pissed and of course threw a pick a couple plays later

This is an interesting point. He threw a perfect pass to a practice squad player who stopped his route. That was a walk in TD throw. But instead, Darnold now has to do it again & he threw the pick. 

Clearly Sam Darnold has to be graded differently then say Mayfield who is throwing to OBJ, Landry & Higgins. Or Watson throwing to Hopkins & Fuller, Dak throwing to Cooper. 

I would also venture to say our Jets most likely have the fewest long runs of any team in the league. It's a bitch trying to get down the field from your own 25 yard line at 3 yards per average run. I mean Mayfield now has Chubb & Hunt in his backfield. 

Though the Oline did better Thursday night there will still way to many times the end was allowed Tobin scream right in on Darnold & flush him out to his right, or the Wesco whiff that led to the fumble. I truly believe there will be a time when Darnold is surrounded by enough talent to make him very dangerous. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Totally agree. 

 The only thing I cared about seeing Thursday night was that Darnold didnt fall apart like against New England and he clearly didnt.

This is what I was looking for.  This is progression in the clearest form. The Ravens looked at the tape and brought that Belicheck cover zero constantly and Darnold recognized it all game and made the throw. They confused the sh*t out of him a few months ago, and I still think that is because Bill switched it up and started to show cover zero like he was going to send it and then the players would drop back into coverage and Sam would be so set on that cover zero coming in quick, that he makes a bad throw. It made him lose all confidence in what he was reading on the field.

well definitely not Thursday night.may have not been the best performance he’s had but the progression was really valuable to see. If your QB can’t learn on the fly and recognize things after being punished for not seeing them in the first place..he isn’t going to make it in this league. They will feast off your bad tendencies. 

It may be a small victory but our boy didn’t let that same thing happen. Nope.

[Jets723]

Just now, Jetster said:

This is an interesting point. He threw a perfect pass to a practice squad player who stopped his route. That was a walk in TD throw. But instead, Darnold now has to do it again & he threw the pick. 

Clearly Sam Darnold has to be graded differently then say Mayfield who is throwing to OBJ, Landry & Higgins. Or Watson throwing to Hopkins & Fuller, Dak throwing to Cooper. 

I would also venture to say our Jets most likely have the fewest long runs of any team in the league. It's a bitch trying to get down the field from your own 25 yard line at 3 yards per average run. I mean Mayfield now has Chubb & Hunt in his backfield. 

Though the Oline did better Thursday night there will still way to many times the end was allowed Tobin scream right in on Darnold & flush him out to his right, or the Wesco whiff that led to the fumble. I truly believe there will be a time when Darnold is surrounded by enough talent to make him very dangerous. 

Agreed.  Like I said it’s obvious I’m a big fan of Sam I always have been. He is the QB I wanted.  I have no regrets.  However I’m fair.  There are things he does he needs to stop.  The two main things are throwing off his back foot which many times leads to a pick.  Also he doesn’t use his legs enough especially on a 3rd and 2 when he can pick up a first but throws instead.  But despite that there other stuff he does well gets me excited for the future.  There is no doubt the talent/protection around him compared to the other good young QB’s is much much less.  That’s not an excuse thT just a fact.  That Smith play was a perfect example 

[playtowinthegame]

Patrick  Mahomes beat Baltimore this year.

27/37, 374 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT

Mahomes 2-0 vs Lamar Jackson

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

Darnold's performance against BAL (18/32, 218 yds, 2 TD, INT) was much
better than people realize.  Check out what BAL defense has done against
other QB's on better teams with better rosters and better running games:

Josh Allen (17/39, 146 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127868     

Jimmy Garoppolo (15/21, 165 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128027   

Jared Goff (26/37, 212 yds, 2 INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128012  

Deshaun Watson (18/29, 169 yds, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128047  

Russell Wilson (20/41, 241 yds, 1 TD, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127985

But don't let facts get in the way of your "hot takes" 

Plus Darnold has a crap OL and below average weapons.  That was honestly the most encouraging game I think I've ever seen Darnold play (just due to the quality of opponent plus how bad his supporting cast was).

[Jetster]

13 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Baker Mayfield won on the road at Baltimore.

20/30, 342 yds, 1 TD, INT

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128018

Yea, well let's see on the next meeting goes now that the Browns are dealing with injuries & Garrett is suspended. 

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Patrick  Mahomes beat Baltimore this year.

27/37, 374 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT

Mahomes 2-0 vs Lamar Jackson

There is no way in hell that KC defense will be able to slow down the Ravens offense now. Like night & day how they are playing & using extra lineman, fullbacks, 3 TEs & just bullying everyone. Those losses to the Browns & Chiefs were a long time ago. 

[HawkeyeJet]

Here is my 100% honest assessment and outlook on Sam Darnold.  I'm trying to be as objective as I can be. This might get long and some may repeat things I've said previously.  I've wanted to write this for a few weeks even if no one wants or cares to read it.

In my opinion Sam is naturally polarizing at this point because his game is so esthetically memorable.  His good plays and stretches are better than any Jets QB I can remember since becoming a fan as a kid in the early 90s. 

On the flip side, his bad is just head scratching bad.  I am to the point where I watch each game now with an underlying sense of nervousness that he's going to make that cringeworthy interception.  I pretty much accept it that its going to happen.  I don't particularly like that feeling, and I try not to think that way, but it's a result of previous outcomes.

Overall, I think Sam's positives outweigh his negatives, even though his negatives are more eye popping.  Sam's biggest hindrance is his decision making.  I personally don't think it's an "intelligence" issue from the stand point of reading defenses etc.  I actually think Sam is good at reading coverages.  What I don't think he is smart at is processing the risk of certain plays.  Sam has to learn that not every play is worth extending.  Not every play is going to be a plus.  Sometimes a sack is better than risking a throw etc, etc.

I think it's naive to think that Darnold will ever completely rid himself off that issue.  The good news is he can still become a very good QB even if he doesn't.  As long as those plays come fewer and father between, he'll be fine.  I certainly think that is possible.  Some may consider this an excuse, but I think as the roster gets better (hopefully) around him, that helps limit these as he won't feel as much pressure to "make plays" as others will be making plays too. Just general maturation will help to an extent as well.

Everyone like to compare Darnold to people.  I don't know how to best frame this, but the player I see most is actually Eli Manning.  From a physical tools standpoint they are very different.  However they both have that polarizing Jeckyl and Hide thing.  At their best, they are very very good.  At their worst, it looks like a train wreck.

The question is could you handle a more mobile Eli Manning the next 10 years?

[Bleedin Green]

Darnold definitely had himself a good game for the most part.  In truth, many of the arguments around here come simply from a matter of the ridiculous level of those who immediately make up a list of excuses for every mistake, poor decision, or bad throw he ever makes.  That INT, for example, was a special level of awful, there's no two ways about that, but we still had to hear why it could be the fault of every other person employed by the Jets not named Darnold.

With that said, it happens to every QB on occasion, so doesn't define a player on its own, but it still happened and the #1 priority is simply looking to have those kind of plays occur as rarely as possible.  Ultimately, he gets credit for a solid game against a very tough opponent, but when all is said and done, it was an offense that got two scores on the day, one of which was in garbage time, in a game they lost by a significant margin, so also hardly does much to anoint him either.

[choon328]

2 hours ago, KRL said:

Darnold's performance against BAL (18/32, 218 yds, 2 TD, INT) was much
better than people realize.  Check out what BAL defense has done against
other QB's on better teams with better rosters and better running games:

Josh Allen (17/39, 146 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127868     

Jimmy Garoppolo (15/21, 165 yds, 1 TD) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128027   

Jared Goff (26/37, 212 yds, 2 INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128012  

Deshaun Watson (18/29, 169 yds, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128047  

Russell Wilson (20/41, 241 yds, 1 TD, INT) - https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401127985

But don't let facts get in the way of your "hot takes" 

It's almost as if I wrote this same post a day ago.  Weird. 

https://forums.jetnation.com/topic/149156-food-for-thought/

[Larz]

3 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Darnold definitely had himself a good game for the most part.  In truth, many of the arguments around here come simply from a matter of the ridiculous level of those who immediately make up a list of excuses for every mistake, poor decision, or bad throw he ever makes.  That INT, for example, was a special level of awful, there's no two ways about that, but we still had to hear why it could be the fault of every other person employed by the Jets not named Darnold.

With that said, it happens to every QB on occasion, so doesn't define a player on its own, but it still happened and the #1 priority is simply looking to have those kind of plays occur as rarely as possible.  Ultimately, he gets credit for a solid game against a very tough opponent, but when all is said and done, it was an offense that got two scores on the day, one of which was in garbage time, in a game they lost by a significant margin, so also hardly does much to anoint him either.

Should we form a club with a cute name?

too soon?

[HawkeyeJet]

24 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

It's kind of garbage when "writers" pick and choose facts to support their narrative.

So in this article, the premise is that Gase is a terrible coach because he's forcing Darnold to be a pocket passer when he's clearly better rolling out.

Of course this just completely ignores the fact that Gase was roundly criticized for his play calls on both 4th downs when - wait for it - he called plays that required Darnold to roll out.

Part of that is true, but something in the Jets formation or play calling sequences was giving up these roll outs rolling right.  The amount of times Baltimore blitzed a slot DB or OLB into those plays was uncanny.  That's advanced scouting at it's best by Baltimore or self scouting at it's worst by the Jets.  Either way it doesn't speak well of Gase's ability to adjust.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

I think he was awesome!

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I married a six, so mediocre is more than good enough for me. 

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, SummerofSam14 said:

I know stats are meaningless, but I’d love to see Sams overall numbers if you take away the New  England disaster. 

If you remove the MNF debacle he's 223 of 347 (64% completion) for 2556 yards. That's 7.4 YPA with 17 TDs and 8 INTs. Passer ratings of 93.05.

That jumps him from 27th to 17th in Passer Rating, roughly league average just ahead of Carson Wentz and just below Matt Ryan. Of course, if you dropped everyone's worst game that's no longer true, I'm sure those guys leap up, although I do think Sam's worst game (one of the worst games I've ever seen a QB play) is more of an outlier than the worst game for most guys.

[SummerofSam14]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If you remove the MNF debacle he's 223 of 347 (64% completion) for 2556 yards. That's 7.4 YPA with 17 TDs and 8 INTs. Passer ratings of 93.05.

That jumps him from 27th to 17th in Passer Rating, roughly league average just ahead of Carson Wentz and just below Matt Ryan. Of course, if you dropped everyone's worst game that's no longer true, I'm sure those guys leap up, although I do think Sam's worst game (one of the worst games I've ever seen a QB play) is more of an outlier than the worst game for most guys.

Exactly my point. A typical horrible game for a QB is a 40-50 QBR. Darnold had a 3.6 rating on 32 attempts. It’s a historically inept outing that pretty much kills his stats. 

[fullblast]

?

[Matt39]

Raise the bar. 

[Bleedin Green]

5 minutes ago, SummerofSam14 said:

Exactly my point. A typical horrible game for a QB is a 40-50 QBR. Darnold had a 3.6 rating on 32 attempts. It’s a historically inept outing that pretty much kills his stats. 

Perhaps, but to UC's point, in fairness for a legitimate comparison, you'd have to go through the entire league and eliminate both their very worst and very best games as statistical outliers and then compare to see where everyone falls.  It's entirely possible that one game would have a more significant impact on Darnold's numbers than the overwhelming majority, and that would certainly be interesting to see, but cherry picking for the sake of a particular narrative doesn't mean much on its own.

[greenwichjetfan]

2 hours ago, nico002 said:

I saw Darnold throw 5 TDs Thursday to get 2... Jamison dropped one, Robby Dropped one, Smith Dropped one. 

2 hours ago, nico002 said:

Yes but he made two TD worthy plays to get 1. Kid is carrying this team on his mother fu cking back.

Most days I’m not with your bright and shiny outlook, but I’ve had a full night’s rest and am sipping a delicious coffee in the 20 mins downtime I have before my kid wakes up from his nap, and I remember what it felt like to be a young, fully optimistic fan. I appreciate these posts. Hopefully Sam realizes everything you think he is.

[Jetster]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Plus Darnold has a crap OL and below average weapons.  That was honestly the most encouraging game I think I've ever seen Darnold play (just due to the quality of opponent plus how bad his supporting cast was).

Once we were down 21-0, I started watching the game with no bias. Yes, I'm a Jet fan, but at that moment I just felt, ok, we're not winning this game but show me something. Show me your not going to turtle, not just Sam but the whole offense. So I started watching like I was watching another underdog team. I always root for the underdog. 

But rooting for underdogs in this league is frustrating, because the same sh*t we saw Thursday Night, refs not calling holding on their Oline, the terrible missed holding call on Robbie in the endzone, the ridiculous non reversal when the punt hit the Raven player happen to bad teams more often than not. 

Sam & the guys fought back & played a lot on the Ravens side of the field. We left a lot of points out there but we were robbed on the Robbie hold, would have had the ball in the Redzone on the muffed punt. I was encouraged & we really weren't embarrassed the team fought hard.