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TNJet

The Good News (Thanks to Macc)

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When Macc was given the go ahead for a full rebuild this was always the year that they were pointing to for playoff contention.  It in fact was a playoff roster until the tsunami of injuries the likes of which I don't remember ever seeing.

The fact they've won 5 games with the bottom of his roster is actually kind of impressive and speaks to this depth that everyone kept crying we don't have.

Anywho...  I fully expect a playoff team next year simply from the players returning from injury which will be bolstered by what JD does with the O-line.

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12 minutes ago, Pac said:

When Macc was given the go ahead for a full rebuild this was always the year that they were pointing to for playoff contention.  It in fact was a playoff roster until the tsunami of injuries the likes of which I don't remember ever seeing.

The fact they've won 5 games with the bottom of his roster is actually kind of impressive and speaks to this depth that everyone kept crying we don't have.

Anywho...  I fully expect a playoff team next year simply from the players returning from injury which will be bolstered by what JD does with the O-line.

It's not a linear progression from 5 wins to 10 required for playoffs. We didn't almost make the playoffs,  we wren't only a few games away, we were a bottom feeding team that had the fortune of playing most of the other bottom feeding teams (Miami x2, NYG, Cinn, Wash) and caught some mediocre teams at the rigt time (Oakland to start a now 3 game losing streak).  None of our 5 wins have come against a team with a winning record.

At no point in time was this a playoff roster unless you define that term as a below average to mediocre team that could sneak into the playoffs with a few breaks and a weak schedule. (See the Bills, Buffalo)

 

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6 hours ago, TNJet said:

We don't have to draft a single, DL, S, or MLB thanks to Macc. In all reality we are set there. We have depth out the arse for next season at these positions. DL could be ignored for a couple years easily. That said, it will help us stock pile on (3)athletic offensive linemen which we are in dire straits for. (LT, C, G)TE is set as well with Griffin, Herndon, and Wesco.We will also be able to draft a starter at CB, OLB, WR, and scat back. If Douglas plays his cards right our whole team can be fixed by the start of next season. Macc gets a lil credit for log jamming the big uglies on D. Quinnen, Foley Fatukasi, Shepherd, H.Anderson, McClendon, Kyle Phillips, Basham. Mosley, Williamson, Burgess, Cashman, Hewitt. Adams, Maye, Miles, Middleton. Good solid depth.

So basically, you're saying that Macc managed to screw-up the least when stockpiling interior D-linemen and safeties, the 2 positions that are the least elite and easiest positions to fill...

Maybe that's why he didn't manage to screw those positions up as well (although the jury is still out on Q Williams)...

This thread reminds me of the old "call from the doctor" joke:

"Hi, Mrs. Jones, it's Dr. Smith.  I have good news and bad news... The bad news is that you have a massive brain tumor...

The good news is that you won't have to deal with it for long because you only have 2 weeks to live..."

Great...

Please, enough with the positive spin on Macc's tenure...

Enough with the silver linings....

The Jets could have had their elite pass rusher for the next decade in Allen or Oliver, but it was too much of a lay-up for him...

No elite corner...

No elite receiver...

No elite offensive tackle...

What a disaster...

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1 hour ago, Pac said:

When Macc was given the go ahead for a full rebuild this was always the year that they were pointing to for playoff contention.  It in fact was a playoff roster until the tsunami of injuries the likes of which I don't remember ever seeing.

The fact they've won 5 games with the bottom of his roster is actually kind of impressive and speaks to this depth that everyone kept crying we don't have.

Anywho...  I fully expect a playoff team next year simply from the players returning from injury which will be bolstered by what JD does with the O-line.

What the actual **** are you talking about?

Hyperbole much? 

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

List the draft picks from Maccagnan’s first 2 drafts if you want to compare apples to apples. Then factor in how piss poor the top half of the 2013 draft was for everyone outside the top 5. 

I’m not starting an “Idzik was a great drafter” thread anytime soon, but no one is worse than Maccagnan. He just got 5 years to pile up more selections is all. Regardless, no one on earth‘s “by far” worse than Maccagnan. 

But can we agree Macc drafted a couple potentially great players in Sam /Adams? Who was Idzik's great player? 

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27 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

What the actual **** are you talking about?

Hyperbole much? 

Not my problem your memory is kaput.  Pretty highly publicized chain of events.

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3 hours ago, jago said:

they are the Ruth and Gehrig of sh*tty Gms.

re mac, besides adams , all mentioned are mediocrities at this time including Sam, who cost 3 2's and recall he didn't know who was gonna be available, whilst two Qbs drafted behind him are in the playoffs in year 2.  one bonus point for not drafting rosen.

Could you imagine if the jets drafted Rosen? After giving up 3 #2s, I mean let’s face it, Darnold and Mayfield should’ve been off the board if not for the giants terrible miscalculation of state of the team. 

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37 minutes ago, TNJet said:

But can we agree Macc drafted a couple potentially great players in Sam /Adams? Who was Idzik's great player? 

Nice failure on the apples to apples comparison after glossing over what I asked you.

How many great players did Macc draft in his first 2 drafts? How many AVERAGE players did he draft in his first 2 drafts FFS? Outside the top 6 picks, Shell is the closest and he stinks.

How many top 6 picks did Idzik have? Zero. How many did Maccagnan have? Four. 

How many great players - who were considered by anybody to be top 10 picks at the time - were sitting there at his one and only top 10 pick?

Also as much as I’m certainly no Darnold hater, the truth is he’s ”potentially” (your word) as likely to be great as he is to be an average or below average, mistake-prone, choking, feast or famine QB. I’m not ready to label him as such yet, but you’re the one talking potential. 

This is as much as I’ll get into an argument over which GM was the lesser-polished turd, but no one is worse than Maccagnan.

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The fact anyone has the audacity to compare Idziks tenure with Maccs is kind of a joke.  Idzik is likely the worst GM in the history of organized sports.

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4 hours ago, TNJet said:

They better not touch a Safety in the draft. Complete waste of an offensive upgrade. Roberts played Safety well Thursday night. 

The Jets will not draft a safety, IMO. MAYBE if they trade Adams. I get that they may not plan to re-sign Maye but they have much bigger needs and can address Safety in FA. I don't see them drafting a safety...I mean, maybe in the 6th or 7th round. They can always draft a safety next year. They have bigger needs right now on O-line, CB, Edge, WR.  

As far as Roberts, you have to cut him. He clears 6mil. in cap space if I am not mistaken. If you plan is to bring in a capable starting CB in FA and draft a CB to develop, you need to cut Tru and Roberts who are both on the wrong side of 30 and way overpriced. 

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4 hours ago, Pac said:

Not my problem your memory is kaput.  Pretty highly publicized chain of events.

I’m talking about the stupid leaps of logic you’ve taken. That is your problem.

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4 hours ago, Pac said:

The fact anyone has the audacity to compare Idziks tenure with Maccs is kind of a joke.  Idzik is likely the worst GM in the history of organized sports.

Ok, so Macc was the maid of honor. Cool. 

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11 hours ago, TNJet said:

We don't have to draft a single, DL, S, or MLB thanks to Macc. In all reality we are set there. We have depth out the arse for next season at these positions. DL could be ignored for a couple years easily. That said, it will help us stock pile on (3)athletic offensive linemen which we are in dire straits for. (LT, C, G)TE is set as well with Griffin, Herndon, and Wesco.We will also be able to draft a starter at CB, OLB, WR, and scat back. If Douglas plays his cards right our whole team can be fixed by the start of next season. Macc gets a lil credit for log jamming the big uglies on D. Quinnen, Foley Fatukasi, Shepherd, H.Anderson, McClendon, Kyle Phillips, Basham. Mosley, Williamson, Burgess, Cashman, Hewitt. Adams, Maye, Miles, Middleton. Good solid depth.

"Credit" and "Q Williams" in the same sentance is some twilight zone sh*t. Unless by "credit" you're talking about the earning of life long hate and disgust from anyone thats a fan of this team... Then yes, credit due. 

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8 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

I don't give Macc any credit for Sam. The two teams ahead of us, Gints and Browns, both needed QB's. Sam and Baker should have been off the board before the Jets picked and Macc would have taken Rosen over Allen IMO.

This argument is old and tired. Macc was an awful GM, but he gets 100% of the credit for trading up to three. He traded up knowing that was guaranteed to select a franchise QB no matter what the Browns and Giants did. He also knew that the Giants were taking Barkley because it was the worst kept secret in football. He was coming out of that pick with Mayfield or Darnold. At the very worst, he was picking Rosen, who was highly regarded at the time. If we can take a dump on Macc for selecting the "best player in the draft" three times, we can praise him for getting Darnold. 

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11 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

543DED5B-BA06-49FC-A011-27AFA5775EF6.thumb.jpeg.a278c652e762af39e1a2e98d9ab9cb59.jpeg

LET'S DRAFT ANOTHER FAT SLOW DEFENSIVE INTERIOR LINEMAN WITH  THE TOP TEN PICK

 

 

 

PRETTY PLEASE

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15 hours ago, TNJet said:

We don't have to draft a single, DL, S, or MLB thanks to Macc. In all reality we are set there. We have depth out the arse for next season at these positions. DL could be ignored for a couple years easily. 

Yeah, but it should have been ignored in 2019 too.  That's the problem with Maccagnan.  He could have taken Edge off the To-do List by snagging Josh Allen and he didn't just because his BAP analysis like had QW 2 or 3 spots better than Allen.  It's ridiculous to throw need completely out the window in those situations IMO.  It has to be a factor, even if it's just 25%.

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The Jets will very likely draft a Safety this year.  There are several good ones.  It is Maye’s last year on his contract, and Adams is 50/50 to be traded in my view.  

Maye has been a good player for the Jets but probably not the guy you give a big second contract to.  He is someone you draft in the 2nd or 3rd round and play for 4 years.  

Adams has been a great player so far, but the question is whether you can pay him $15mm.  Teams like the Redskins and Titans are paying their safeties a lot of money.  So are the Ravens and Chiefs.   It’s probably a coin flip depending on whether the Jets can draft CBS and EDGE,   You can’t pay Adams, Mosley and Avery in a 4-3 defense.  

You simply do not trade/release/let walk perennial pro bowlers that are the best players on the team ... Rarely happens ... If ever.

 

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You simply do not trade/release/let walk perennial pro bowlers that are the best players on the team ... Rarely happens ... If ever. 

 

Let’s be trend setters then if this is some rule for teams that we’re supposed to follow. Adams being the “best player on the team” isn’t a good thing, nor would eventually paying him $15M a year be a smart decision.

 

Smart would be moving him for significant draft assets so we can build the OL and maybe grab one of WR, EDGE, or CB.

 

Otherwise you’re building your team around a luxury position.

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Let’s be trend setters then if this is some rule for teams that we’re supposed to follow. Adams being the “best player on the team” isn’t a good thing, nor would eventually paying him $15M a year be a smart decision.
 
Smart would be moving him for significant draft assets so we can build the OL and maybe grab one of WR, EDGE, or CB.
 
Otherwise you’re building your team around a luxury position.
Not gonna happen ... Just as we will not pay him $15 mil per

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6 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Not gonna happen ... Just as we will not pay him $15 mil per

So we're just going to let him walk as a free agent?  

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On 12/14/2019 at 10:45 AM, TNJet said:

Nope, Idzik was by far. He gave us an injury prone Enunwa. Thanks!!

Idzik gave us Enunwa and Winters.  Then Maccagnan paid them both. 

On 12/14/2019 at 11:53 AM, slats said:

I’m all for BAP, especially early, but it has to be weighed by positional value. Jamal Adams may’ve been the BAP, but taking him ahead of Mahommes or Watson looks criminal in retrospect (and to many, in real time). 

There are positions the Jets just have to take off the board in the early rounds, and DT and S probably apply. They should be choosing between a LT, WR, and EDGE in the first, and OL, WR, and EDGE the next two. Maybe CB. 

I think BAP is BAP.  The positional value is part of the BAP.  Meaning, a top 5 interior D lineman isn't worth a top 3 CB, but Aaron Donald is.  These guys should be tiering their BAP with that in mind. 

 

On 12/14/2019 at 8:36 PM, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

This argument is old and tired. Macc was an awful GM, but he gets 100% of the credit for trading up to three. He traded up knowing that was guaranteed to select a franchise QB no matter what the Browns and Giants did. He also knew that the Giants were taking Barkley because it was the worst kept secret in football. He was coming out of that pick with Mayfield or Darnold. At the very worst, he was picking Rosen, who was highly regarded at the time. If we can take a dump on Macc for selecting the "best player in the draft" three times, we can praise him for getting Darnold. 

You just said that he deserved all the credit, but that we could have ended up with Rosen.  Rosen is a ******* horror show. The fact Rosen was "highly regarded at the time" means just about nothing. If he believed in BAP he would have taken Barkley, but you concede he wouldn't have.  Where does that leave you?

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So we're just going to let him walk as a free agent?  

No, man we get that 2023 comp pick.  I mean assuming we don't sign any free agents.

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On 12/14/2019 at 7:45 AM, TNJet said:

Nope, Idzik was by far. He gave us an injury prone Enunwa. Thanks!!

...who Macc signed to a 36 million dollar contract

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On 12/14/2019 at 11:53 AM, slats said:

I’m all for BAP, especially early, but it has to be weighed by positional value. Jamal Adams may’ve been the BAP, but taking him ahead of Mahommes or Watson looks criminal in retrospect (and to many, in real time). 

There are positions the Jets just have to take off the board in the early rounds, and DT and S probably apply. They should be choosing between a LT, WR, and EDGE in the first, and OL, WR, and EDGE the next two. Maybe CB. 

I tend to like BAP better later in the draft. The rationale being it's hard enough to hit that late when you're further handicapping yourself by only looking at present need positions. 

Earlier it should depend upon what you're looking to get. Are you looking for someone elite who may take a year to appear worthy, or are you looking for an instant starter where the team presently has a hole? Like they should have them tiered, as most surely do, but at some point the talent level for a few picks (or more) in a row where we're plenty stocked, or where we don't see positional value, and the move would be to trade down rather than make a pick (but still, take the player a few perceived slots worse rather than take a lower-value or redundant position). The bolded part from your quote above alludes to just that. 

We get caught up with it on draft day, but just a few years later - maybe within 6 months - no one's going to remember or care who was ranked 14 and who was ranked 19 if you made the right choice for this team. That early especially, as long as you're not reaching with a prospect that should have been in round 2 (even though that works out sometimes as well), you're choosing from a bunch of prospects with similar success predictability. A 19th-ranked player today might have been an 11th-ranked player a year earlier or later if he's in a particularly strong draft class at his position.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I tend to like BAP better later in the draft. The rationale being it's hard enough to hit that late when you're further handicapping yourself by only looking at present need positions. 

Earlier it should depend upon what you're looking to get. Are you looking for someone elite who may take a year to appear worthy, or are you looking for an instant starter where the team presently has a hole? Like they should have them tiered, as most surely do, but at some point the talent level for a few picks (or more) in a row where we're plenty stocked, or where we don't see positional value, and the move would be to trade down rather than make a pick (but still, take the player a few perceived slots worse rather than take a lower-value or redundant position). The bolded part from your quote above alludes to just that. 

We get caught up with it on draft day, but just a few years later - maybe within 6 months - no one's going to remember or care who was ranked 14 and who was ranked 19 if you made the right choice for this team. That early especially, as long as you're not reaching with a prospect that should have been in round 2 (even though that works out sometimes as well), you're choosing from a bunch of prospects with similar success predictability. A 19th-ranked player today might have been an 11th-ranked player a year earlier or later if he's in a particularly strong draft class at his position.

good points i just have a problem thinking that gm's, even mac, don't consider positional values or even the team's needs when considering BAP.  as you say the upper rounds should be more for need.  the lower rounds are where the football players are found.

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The draft is a very powerful tool.  Look at the word “draft” itself.  It’s the same word we use to make young men fight and die in wars.   A team can draft players and make them play.  The alternative is trying to overpay guys like Kirk Cousins and Anthony Barr.  

The NFLPA also agreed to very long rookie contracts.  That means that the team that drafts a player has an advantage in keeping a player long term, because they can extend and/or franchise tag them.  So you draft players early that you want to keep long term, even if you have to pay them.

When you look at FA, you see very few EDGE, QB and LTs free up and become available, and then they do they go for a lot of money.

Let’s look at the four teams I mentioned above that pay their safeties a lot of money.  The Redskins pay Landon Collins, who I like as a player and who the Giants let walk.  The Giants are not good. The Redskins are not a smart team either.

The Titans, Chiefs and Ravens all have QBs under rookie contracts.  They can afford to pay their S.  

Adams was the player that a good team drafting in the late teens/20s takes and makes them even better.   He plays for his rookie contract and then moves on to a team with a rookie QB with money.  

Darnold is going to be owed big money in 2022.  He is on the Matt Stafford plan.  The Jets will need to pay Darnold and keep him around because he has shown signs of being a real NFL QB.   Hopefully Douglas will be able to build a team around Darnold before he retires rich and physically broken.  

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So we're just going to let him walk as a free agent?  
Did you hear $15 mil offered yet ?? I have not myself.

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On 12/14/2019 at 10:37 AM, GreenFish said:

You’re right. However, I’m all about drafting the best player available. If that’s a DT or Safety, so be it. The coaches should make it work out. 

Please hold off on the butt fumbles. I’m trying to put myself in Macc’s shoes. 

Kinda funny (not) how the 'best player in the draft' always fell to the NY Jets at like pick number 6.

Good times.

 

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Did you hear $15 mil offered yet ?? I have not myself.

 

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Top Safety money is $14M (Byard, Landon Collins, etc). If you think for one moment Adams won’t want to be the highest paid safety you’re a lunatic. He’s already compared himself to Aaron Donald.

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FWIW...Macc > Idzik...both sucked...and here we are a decade later.  Pats still cheating and Jets still stuck.

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