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As Former top Exec in Philly, How are Joe Douglas Drafts With Eagles Looking Today?

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2 hours ago, HessStation said:

Dear lord

Its all about the QB. You have a good one, everything else falls into place. We can spend hours looking at who we could have drafted and who we did draft. They're is always a valid counter argument. Example. Someone made the point that we could have drafted Cam Robinson. He's been dreadful in Cleveland. That center the Vikings drafted. He's no better than Harrison. There's always a valid counter argument.

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Lookit, just draft straight OL, try to hit on a WR, TE appears set, keep Bell (he will be the real Bell again with NFL quality on the OL)....it’s not rocket science at this point.....although we KNOW Maccagnan would be able to f*ck things up even more.  Douglas can’t be close to as bad a Maccagnan.

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Lol - you guys act like Joe Douglas was the GM of PHI.  Some real head scratching posts in here. 

Beyond that amazingly important fact, of the picks posted here - most were decent. Hate to see JJAW on there, but it's not a list of tragedy like ours.

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When Joe is the only one in the draft room on the telephone making the decisions, You know, like Macc was.... then you can point out at him and he can take full responsibility for the decisions.  But I'm not going to look at this list and question his ability.  It's well known that the farther Roseman went towards analytics the more Douglas bristled.  He wanted to run his own show for a reason.  We have no idea what the deciding factor was in the player selections.

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Its all about the QB. You have a good one, everything else falls into place.

 

And Macc’s QB plan was:

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Bryce Petty

Christian Hackenberg

 

Passing on Watson and Mahomes to double down on Hackenberg

 

Josh McCown

 

Kirk Cousins

 

Whoever fell to us at 3 (who he thought would be Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen)

 

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21 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Sooooooooo do we still want to trade Jamal Adams you know for those sure things JD draft picks. 

Yes.

Nothing will change that that IS the right course for a rebuild.  You do not build defenses around strong safety, and even a great strong safety only has a very little bearing on winning and losing games.

So yes, you trade away a quality luxury asset at maximum market value for the maximum number of necessity assets, even if there is a chance they fail.  The future of the NY Jets is building around Sam Darnold.  Everything, for the next year or two at least, must serve that purpose.

Standing pat and doing nothing is the route to continued failure.  Failing to support our (hopefully) franchise QB is the route to failure.  Building a team around a strong safety is a route to failure.  

So yes, we need to trade Adams for a #1 and more as soon as feasible to maximize our talent pool going into 2020, especially and specifically on the Offense.

Remember, Jamal Adams was playing very well before his injury.  We were 4-8 during that time.  If Sam Darnold played excellently, with support, and an O-line, and more legit WR's, we'd be better than 4-8.   

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We were 4-8 during that time.  If Sam Darnold played excellently, with support, and an O-line, and more legit WR's, we'd be better than 4-8.

Honestly, if Gase had kept the o-line from preseason all playing together week1 and on, I think we'd have more wins. All the other injuries and adversity still included. Lines need time to gel together and work as a unit. Putting your franchise QB behind a line that is all playing together the first time is malfeasance. I honestly thought this was basic, basic football knowledge. Pretty glaring that an offensive genius would not realize that. 

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To be fair, he wasn’t the GM and wasn’t the ultimate decider on who the pick was. Still - guys on that list are much better then the guys on MACCs list.

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His many years as a scout in Baltimore should lend him the benefit of the doubt on top of being Roseman's right hand man.  Two Super Bowl-winning organizations felt he was excellent at talent evaluation.  

That's very different from our previous GM, who was about to get fired from his organization until we threw him some rope, and will likely never get a job of significance in the league again.  Or the previous one, who was found by Korn Ferry.  

Douglas might well suck but there's not much in the way of red flags in his resume that you can point to and say he will definitely fail here.  

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7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

And Macc’s QB plan was:

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Bryce Petty

Christian Hackenberg

 

Passing on Watson and Mahomes to double down on Hackenberg

 

Josh McCown

 

Kirk Cousins

 

Whoever fell to us at 3 (who he thought would be Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen)

 

Stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The only two on that list that might have been in his long term plans we"re hack and cousins. the rest we're just stop gaps.

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1 minute ago, genot said:

Stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The only two on that list that might have been in his long term plans we"re hack and cousins. the rest we're just stop gaps.

And it isn't a negative on his record that he was constantly going after stopgaps rather than "sinking or swimming" with young QB's he drafted, like Petty or Hackenberg? 

And did he not sign both Fitzpatrick and McCown to extensions during his tenure?  True stopgaps would have been let go as free agents.  

You stop it.  

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And it isn't a negative on his record that he was constantly going after stopgaps rather than "sinking or swimming" with young QB's he drafted, like Petty or Hackenberg? 

And did he not sign both Fitzpatrick and McCown to extensions during his tenure?  True stopgaps would have been let go as free agents.  

You stop it.  

He took a flyer on Petty. So what. Hack was a huge bust of a pick. must have ran out of coffee. He drafted Darnold. He's only 22. be happy. it's christmas

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45 minutes ago, heymangold said:

To be fair, he wasn’t the GM and wasn’t the ultimate decider on who the pick was. Still - guys on that list are much better then the guys on MACCs list.

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4 minutes ago, genot said:

He took a flyer on Petty. So what. Hack was a huge bust of a pick. must have ran out of coffee. He drafted Darnold. He's only 22. be happy. it's christmas

So what?  We spent three years with absolutely no hope at the position.  So what?  Merry Christmas.  I bet you would love opening up your present to find an IOU that it will arrive in 2022, and maybe it will be ready to work by 2025.

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On 12/15/2019 at 10:13 AM, genot said:

You can look at all 32 GM's drafts and find the same success and failures. it's a rarity when a 7 rd draft yields 7 players who are making positive contributions. That's why i find a lot of the arguments about Mac, specious.

Is the fact that Macc had the most picks out of the league, while having strong draft position, also specious?

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On 12/15/2019 at 10:26 AM, HessStation said:

Dear lord

To genot’s credit, he’s one of two people, who aren’t suddenly pretending they thought Macc was terrible all along.

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On 12/15/2019 at 10:12 AM, Jet Nut said:

And given we have no idea who Douglas wanted to draft or wanted, how is this relevant?

The Eagles won a SB with JD on their staff, who would complain about a SB win?

How about the picks made when he was a part of the ravens system, should they be listed too?

 

I'm not sure what his capacity  on the Ravens was but the point of the article was with the Eagles, JD was VP and had considerable  input to who was picked. Of course he didn't  make rhe final decision,  but you gotta think he had influnce over how they set the draftboard

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Two things that really bother me. None of the players that were picked appear to be starters, more so change of pace or situational players and the one OL selected seems to suck.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Yes.

Nothing will change that that IS the right course for a rebuild.  You do not build defenses around strong safety, and even a great strong safety only has a very little bearing on winning and losing games.

So yes, you trade away a quality luxury asset at maximum market value for the maximum number of necessity assets, even if there is a chance they fail.  The future of the NY Jets is building around Sam Darnold.  Everything, for the next year or two at least, must serve that purpose.

Standing pat and doing nothing is the route to continued failure.  Failing to support our (hopefully) franchise QB is the route to failure.  Building a team around a strong safety is a route to failure.  

So yes, we need to trade Adams for a #1 and more as soon as feasible to maximize our talent pool going into 2020, especially and specifically on the Offense.

Remember, Jamal Adams was playing very well before his injury.  We were 4-8 during that time.  If Sam Darnold played excellently, with support, and an O-line, and more legit WR's, we'd be better than 4-8.   

Not that I disagree with any of this but in your eyes is not moving Jamal Adams "standing pat".  There is plenty that can be done help improve this roster that doesnt involve moving Adams.  This team could have a very different look and feel with a huge talent upgrade while Jamal still on the team.

 

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25 minutes ago, genot said:

He took a flyer on Petty. So what. Hack was a huge bust of a pick. must have ran out of coffee. He drafted Darnold. He's only 22. be happy. it's christmas

I'll give you Petty, who was basically drafted with the expectation that he'd be a good backup.  Hack can't be waved off.  It was one of the worst picks of all-time.  I guarantee you every other GM in the league had him as a 5th round grade at best.  

I'd be happier with Watson or Mahomes over Darnold, even though Sam was my top QB of the 2017 class at the time he was taken.  Yet another failure of Mike Maccagnan.  

So no, I refuse to be happy.  Especially since the roster Macc built around Sam is one of the 3 worst in the league.  

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Not that I disagree with any of this but in your eyes is not moving Jamal Adams "standing pat".

It is.  It's holding an asset that is better spent towards building around our QB.  IMO that is a missed opportunity, it's "standing pat" on the Macc model of team building.

You're quite right, we can (and should) do plenty with out existing assets.  IMO, that is not enough.  I will repeat, you do not build around a safety, much less a strong safety.  A safety is IMO a luxury, a final nice-to-have for a team in position to compete for a championship who already has a FQB and solid O-line and O-skill players.   

No half measures.  Rebuild or don't, but do it 100%.  If we prefer to keep Adams, fine, then we're doubling down on "Defense Wins Championships" I guess.  Half this or half that just winds up at half.  we've had half an offense long enough.  Do, or do not, there is no try.

Quote

This team could have a very different look and feel with a huge talent upgrade while Jamal still on the team.

And, as I see it at least, it could be better without Adams and with another piece of offense.

I simply do not see the difference between Adams and an "average NFL Safety" being meaningful.  

And I certainly don;t see if being worth Revis-money, which I am willing to bet is what Adams is going to demand when he hits free agency. 

Sell now, don't wait and lose out.  Selling Adams now is what the Patriots would do, we all know it.

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8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Not that I disagree with any of this but in your eyes is not moving Jamal Adams "standing pat".  There is plenty that can be done help improve this roster that doesnt involve moving Adams.  This team could have a very different look and feel with a huge talent upgrade while Jamal still on the team.

 

Sure, but why try to rebuild the roster with one hand tied behind your back when you don't have to? 

It's not just about the picks we'd get back for Adams.  It's the future dollars we'd have to commit to Adams if we wait too long in trading him.  I don't think declining his 5th year option or letting him walk as a UFA are options.  And the franchise tag for a Safety, at this time, would cost about $14M.  

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19 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

So what?  We spent three years with absolutely no hope at the position.  So what?  Merry Christmas.  I bet you would love opening up your present to find an IOU that it will arrive in 2022, and maybe it will be ready to work by 2025.

Quarterbacks don't grow on trees. Petty as a 4th rounder was worth taking a flyer on. great arm, good size, just terribly inaccurate. Forget about Watson and Mahomes, who else should he have drafted at that position before Darnold?????Im sure you'll have an answer. That's because we're all analyzing everything after the fact. That's easy

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On 12/15/2019 at 10:12 AM, Jet Nut said:

And given we have no idea who Douglas wanted to draft or wanted, how is this relevant?

The Eagles won a SB with JD on their staff, who would complain about a SB win?

How about the picks made when he was a part of the ravens system, should they be listed too?

 

Idzik won a Sb when he was part of the Seahawks staff.  No? They obviously had much better draft than the Eagles.  But hey, these are the same fan crowning mr. Nobody savior when he had done nothing yet.  Let’s wait until he turns things around before showering this guy with praises. Do not go back to the Mac debacle as I remember 75% of the fan here were having chill on their knee when he was hired.

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30 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

To genot’s credit, he’s one of two people, who aren’t suddenly pretending they thought Macc was terrible all along.

Thanks for giving me some props TeddEY.thFWPORIVA.jpg.893decc569ebc684ace6f6ede98bbd4f.jpg

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12 minutes ago, genot said:

Quarterbacks don't grow on trees. Petty as a 4th rounder was worth taking a flyer on. great arm, good size, just terribly inaccurate. Forget about Watson and Mahomes, who else should he have drafted at that position before Darnold?????Im sure you'll have an answer. That's because we're all analyzing everything after the fact. That's easy

Why do we have to forget about Watson and Mahomes?  Because that's the answer.  QB-needy team takes one of the top QB's of the draft class instead of a damn Safety.  It doesn't get simpler than that.   

 

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19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'll give you Petty, who was basically drafted with the expectation that he'd be a good backup.  Hack can't be waved off.  It was one of the worst picks of all-time.  I guarantee you every other GM in the league had him as a 5th round grade at best.  

I'd be happier with Watson or Mahomes over Darnold, even though Sam was my top QB of the 2017 class at the time he was taken.  Yet another failure of Mike Maccagnan.  

So no, I refuse to be happy.  Especially since the roster Macc built around Sam is one of the 3 worst in the league.  

Hack was a horrible pick. i never posted otherwise. I'd take Darnold over Watson. Mahomes.........Well, no. Be honest though. Nobody expected him to play at such an elite level. When he was drafted he still had a big risk of busting. KC, got lucky. They got the boom, and not the bust

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4 minutes ago, genot said:

Hack was a horrible pick. i never posted otherwise. I'd take Darnold over Watson. Mahomes.........Well, no. Be honest though. Nobody expected him to play at such an elite level. When he was drafted he still had a big risk of busting. KC, got lucky. They got the boom, and not the bust

 

Yes, it was all luck that caused Reid to trade up for Mahomes and sell off Alex Smith coming off a career season.  

Mahomes had one of the highest QBase scores of all-time.  His chances of "booming" were higher than most thought (per QBase:  27 % chance of being upper tier/elite, 27 % chance of being an adequate starter, thus 54 % chance of not busting) 

It's not out of the realm of possibility that some people saw a really good QB coming.  Maybe not on the MVP level we've seen, but certainly a QB guru like Andy Reid saw a lot in the kid before nearly everyone else did. 

That's what smart talent evaluators do:  Find diamonds when most others see rough.  

 

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