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As Former top Exec in Philly, How are Joe Douglas Drafts With Eagles Looking Today?

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22 hours ago, genot said:

Quarterbacks don't grow on trees. Petty as a 4th rounder was worth taking a flyer on. great arm, good size, just terribly inaccurate. Forget about Watson and Mahomes, who else should he have drafted at that position before Darnold?????Im sure you'll have an answer. That's because we're all analyzing everything after the fact. That's easy

It would seem it was that easy for someone who's only purported qualification for the job in the first place was being an expert evaluator of talent (college talent at that). 

2015

  • Passed on Kirk Cousins (I think it was that he wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder while RGIII was still locked in as starter there, and that pick became Devin Smith?). Back then could have been extended for 5 years in the $16-18MM/year range even a year later. Even if an immediate extension came with 2-3 years guaranteed, he didn't draft any FQBs in those 3 years anyway. On the contrary, it would have saved the 4th+7th for Petty, the 6th(?) for Fitz, and the 2nd for Hackenberg (plus would have eliminated the embarrassing Fitz extension)

2016 - declined to trade up to #1 while the Rams - who didn't have Mo as trade bait - jumped on the opportunity from just 5 slots earlier. Instead, he extended Mo, re-signed Fitz, drafted Hackenberg, and drafted Lee. Therefore:

  • Passed on Goff (don't know what his issue is this year)
  • Passed on Wentz
  • Passed on Prescott in round 4

2017 - drafted a safety and signed Josh McCown (as one of four QBs on the roster) instead of:

  • Passed on Mahomes
  • Passed on Watson
  • literally the only 2 QBs sitting there at #6 were the 2 of 3 he couldn't have messed up on drafting. So in back to back seasons, he was gifted a perfect alignment of opportunity for a GM desperate to draft a franchise QB.

In comparison to the opportunity in any prior 3-year span in memory, QBs kind of were growing on trees.

Worst of all is how badly the team needed a starting QB all 3 of those early offseasons. He was worse at this than a high school student armed with internet access. 

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2 hours ago, genot said:

When you have the record the jet's have had during mac's tenure, it's hard to defend anyone who managed and coached this team. Everybody is looking at why, and will point out the errors and not pay attention to what the alternatives were. Was Mac, a good GM. No. Was he a horrible GM, who never did anything right. No. He falls somewhere in between those two trains of thought.

Yes.  He falls somewhere in between those two trains of thought.  He wasn't a horrible GM, who never did anything right.  He was a horrible GM.

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47 minutes ago, genot said:

Yea. they all stink. Herndon, Maye, Adams, Fatuski, Austin. Jjenfins, Edwards, We'll talk about more, once you convince me they suck

  • Maye was preposterous misuse of Draft capital.  Maybe you're confusing a bad pick, with a bad player. Maye was a HORRIBLE pick, right after Jamal Adams, and in the face of talent like Dalvin Cook which we sorely needed. 
  • Herndon is 2 seasons in, and has been suspended and hurt for a large of chunk of time. Don't care what his potential is, he's not been on the field.
  • Jenkins has now, 4 years later, started to produce at an "average" level for an OLB in our system... that's what we're hanging our hat on? 

Macc's not overly responsible for late round picks and UDFAs. That's a notion been long debunked. At that point, they're more or less going off of what scouting personnel is proposing... I'm sure there's some GMs out there who are more invested than others - but if you think Macc was breaking down Fatukasi tape between trips to starbucks and contract negotiations in the spring of 2018... I don't know what to tell you.

But I also feel that Fatukasi and Shepherd are prime examples of why Macc sucks ass. Lets give him partial credit for those picks... So in 2018, he said - THOSE TWO.. I WANT THOSE TWO DEFENSIVE TACKLES... I BELIEVE THEY CAN BE STARTERS...

So he believed in them so much, so emphatically, so completely..... that he went and drafted ANOTHER Defensive tackle at #3 overall this year, despite taking those 2 DTs, AND having Leo on the roster AND Henry Anderson, AND McLendon..

Are you kidding me? Macc shouldn't be in control of a CFL roster, let alone a draft room. 

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:
  • 1 hour ago, Paradis said:
    • Maye was preposterous misuse of Draft capital.  Maybe you're confusing a bad pick, with a bad player. Maye was a HORRIBLE pick, right after Jamal Adams, and in the face of talent like Dalvin Cook which we sorely needed. 
    • Herndon is 2 seasons in, and has been suspended and hurt for a large of chunk of time. Don't care what his potential is, he's not been on the field.
    • Jenkins has now, 4 years later, started to produce at an "average" level for an OLB in our system... that's what we're hanging our hat on? 

    Macc's not overly responsible for late round picks and UDFAs. That's a notion been long debunked. At that point, they're more or less going off of what scouting personnel is proposing... I'm sure there's some GMs out there who are more invested than others - but if you think Macc was breaking down Fatukasi tape between trips to starbucks and contract negotiations in the spring of 2018... I don't know what to tell you.

    But I also feel that Fatukasi and Shepherd are prime examples of why Macc sucks ass. Lets give him partial credit for those picks... So in 2018, he said - THOSE TWO.. I WANT THOSE TWO DEFENSIVE TACKLES... I BELIEVE THEY CAN BE STARTERS...

    So he believed in them so much, so emphatically, so completely..... that he went and drafted ANOTHER Defensive tackle at #3 overall this year, despite taking those 2 DTs, AND having Leo on the roster AND Henry Anderson, AND McLendon..

    Are you kidding me? Macc shouldn't be in control of a CFL roster, let alone a draft room. 

    Maye was preposterous misuse of Draft capital.  Maybe you're confusing a bad pick, with a bad player. Maye was a HORRIBLE pick, right after Jamal Adams, and in the face of talent like Dalvin Cook which we sorely needed. 
  • Herndon is 2 seasons in, and has been suspended and hurt for a large of chunk of time. Don't care what his potential is, he's not been on the field.
  • Jenkins has now, 4 years later, started to produce at an "average" level for an OLB in our system... that's what we're hanging our hat on? 

Macc's not overly responsible for late round picks and UDFAs. That's a notion been long debunked. At that point, they're more or less going off of what scouting personnel is proposing... I'm sure there's some GMs out there who are more invested than others - but if you think Macc was breaking down Fatukasi tape between trips to starbucks and contract negotiations in the spring of 2018... I don't know what to tell you.

But I also feel that Fatukasi and Shepherd are prime examples of why Macc sucks ass. Lets give him partial credit for those picks... So in 2018, he said - THOSE TWO.. I WANT THOSE TWO DEFENSIVE TACKLES... I BELIEVE THEY CAN BE STARTERS...

So he believed in them so much, so emphatically, so completely..... that he went and drafted ANOTHER Defensive tackle at #3 overall this year, despite taking those 2 DTs, AND having Leo on the roster AND Henry Anderson, AND McLendon..

Are you kidding me? Macc shouldn't be in control of a CFL roster, let alone a draft room. 

Your butt hurt because we didn't draft Cook. He's an injury prone back, averaging a whopping 3.2 yds a carry this year. Good job Mac, passing on him. Herndon played every game l;ast year. im sure you noticed his skills. Darnold did. That's who he looked for when he was in trouble. An excellent pick in the 4th rd by Mac. Jenkins isn't much different than Calvin Pace. An excellent edge defender against the run, an occasional slash as a rusher. a good pick in the 3rd rd.

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2 minutes ago, genot said:

Your butt hurt because we didn't draft Cook. He's an injury prone back, averaging a whopping 3.2 yds a carry this year. Good job Mac, passing on him. Herndon played every game l;ast year. im sure you noticed his skills. Darnold did. That's who he looked for when he was in trouble. An excellent pick in the 4th rd by Mac. Jenkins isn't much different than Calvin Pace. An excellent edge defender against the run, an occasional slash as a rusher. a good pick in the 3rd rd.

Look, I’m not sure why you wanna die on this hill, of all hills. He was a horrible talent and roster manager. End of story, it’s measurably true.

Your best argument was assuming I like to cook a lot, and that Herndon should be forgiven for this year because he’s talented. You don’t address any of the other stuff that I brought up, his miss use of draft capital and cluelessness that came with moving the needle on the field Talent wise.

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:
  • Maye was preposterous misuse of Draft capital.  Maybe you're confusing a bad pick, with a bad player. Maye was a HORRIBLE pick, right after Jamal Adams, and in the face of talent like Dalvin Cook which we sorely needed. 
  • Herndon is 2 seasons in, and has been suspended and hurt for a large of chunk of time. Don't care what his potential is, he's not been on the field.
  • Jenkins has now, 4 years later, started to produce at an "average" level for an OLB in our system... that's what we're hanging our hat on? 

Macc's not overly responsible for late round picks and UDFAs. That's a notion been long debunked. At that point, they're more or less going off of what scouting personnel is proposing... I'm sure there's some GMs out there who are more invested than others - but if you think Macc was breaking down Fatukasi tape between trips to starbucks and contract negotiations in the spring of 2018... I don't know what to tell you.

But I also feel that Fatukasi and Shepherd are prime examples of why Macc sucks ass. Lets give him partial credit for those picks... So in 2018, he said - THOSE TWO.. I WANT THOSE TWO DEFENSIVE TACKLES... I BELIEVE THEY CAN BE STARTERS...

So he believed in them so much, so emphatically, so completely..... that he went and drafted ANOTHER Defensive tackle at #3 overall this year, despite taking those 2 DTs, AND having Leo on the roster AND Henry Anderson, AND McLendon..

Are you kidding me? Macc shouldn't be in control of a CFL roster, let alone a draft room. 

Maybe Mac was planning on trading Leo. Maybe he planned on not meeting his contract demands, and drafted QW as a replacement. Your only looking at it through your prizm of your bias against Mac. I'm NOT saying your opinion isn't a totally valid one. Always two ways to look at the same points here. Except a h

Hackenburg, or the Trumaine signing. The two biggest mistakes he made as GM. In my opinion.

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah and the players, the team they put together won a SB.  
And I have no idea what influence he had, for who on their draft board 

Funniest part is we go from cartwheels because we got JD and now question what he is before a single draft.  So Jet fan like

 

Honestly, I have been waiting to see him do something  positive we can point to. So far there is very little, possibly more the other way. 

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Jordan Jenkins is fine and I hope they bring him back -- the Maye pick (not player) was and remains awful.

Fun fact, in the 3rd round that year we traded #70 for #79 & #160 (passed on OLs Elflein and Feeney) to take ArDarius Stewart at #79. In taking him we passed on Chris Godwin and Kenny Golladay to name two. 

This was particularly infuriating to me as I wanted an OL but then we took a WR who wasn't big or fast or could play ST. Also, this: https://nypost.com/2019/04/12/former-jets-receiver-ardarius-stewart-arrested-in-gun-bust/

They packaged #160 in another trade and used the picks on Dylan Donohue and Elijah McGuire. So not only did he whiff on the trade down, he totally whiffed on the picks we got to trade down.

This is Macc's legacy. Let's all pray that JD is better than this. 

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2 hours ago, genot said:

Hackenburg, or the Trumaine signing. The two biggest mistakes he made as GM. In my opinion.

  •  Ardarius Stewart and Chad Hansen (ludicrous picks)  both gone by year 2.. YEAR 2.. that's how bad at football they were.
  • Polite
  • QW over J Allen
  • Or conversely, why waste picks on Shepherd and Fatukasi if you're gonna be a bitch and take a DT at #3 next year
  • Passing on 10000 backs in exchange for McGuire and Cannon
  • Never stocking our PS with good UDFA
  • Todd Gurley
  • Darron Lee
  • Hackenberg because you can't bring up the worst pick in Jets history enough times.
  • Devin Smith, Maudlin, 100 DBs that went nowhere...

Man... i'm getting sick just typing this. It's not always who you took, but who you passed on.

I've never been more disinterest/uninvested in a Jets team in my life. Darnold is the only reason i even turn on the game. 

Putrid misuse of draft capital. Putrid. 

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  • Post of the Week 1

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2 hours ago, genot said:

Your butt hurt because we didn't draft Cook. He's an injury prone back, averaging a whopping 3.2 yds a carry this year. Good job Mac, passing on him. Herndon played every game l;ast year. im sure you noticed his skills. Darnold did. That's who he looked for when he was in trouble. An excellent pick in the 4th rd by Mac. Jenkins isn't much different than Calvin Pace. An excellent edge defender against the run, an occasional slash as a rusher. a good pick in the 3rd rd.

Cook's averaging 4.5 YPC.

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Well, that article certainly isn't a who's who of young talent in the league today? My hope is he'll become every not as good as Ozzie Newsome now that he's on his own.

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4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It would seem it was that easy for someone who's only purported qualification for the job in the first place was being an expert evaluator of talent (college talent at that). 

2015

  • Passed on Kirk Cousins (I think it was that he wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder while RGIII was still locked in as starter there, and that pick became Devin Smith?). Back then could have been extended for 5 years in the $16-18MM/year range even a year later. Even if an extension came with 2-3 years guaranteed, he didn't draft any FQBs in those 3 years anyway.

2016 - declined to trade up to #1 while the Rams - who didn't have Mo as trade bait - jumped on the opportunity from just 5 slots earlier. Instead, he extended Mo, re-signed Fitz, drafted Hackenberg, and drafted Lee. Therefore:

  • Passed on Goff (don't know what his issue is this year)
  • Passed on Wentz
  • Passed on Prescott in round 4

2017 - drafted a safety and signed Josh McCown (as one of four QBs on the roster) instead of:

  • Passed on Mahomes
  • Passed on Watson
  • literally the only 2 QBs sitting there at #6 were the 2 of 3 he couldn't have messed up on drafting. So in back to back seasons, he was gifted a perfect alignment of opportunity for a GM desperate to draft a franchise QB.

In comparison to the opportunity in any prior 3-year span in memory, QBs kind of were growing on trees.

Worst of all is how badly the team needed a starting QB all 3 of those early offseasons. He was worse at this than a high school student armed with internet access. 

Mac hates quarterbacks.

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@genot lets not forget that Macc's the first GM in history to sign a guy and then lose him on the plane ride over.. 

"Wait.... did i just agree to sign with the Jets?..."

*texts Macc; change my mind

-Anthony Barr, 2019

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others have already made the point about douglas not being philly's gm.  without knowing what douglas' actual duties were it's awful hard to pin any of the past 3 philly drafts on him.  and the drafts are just done by the gm.  the gm makes the final selection but it has to be based on what the scouts say and what the coaches say.  a gm needs to manage the people around him, first and foremost.

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10 hours ago, genot said:

When you have the record the jet's have had during mac's tenure, it's hard to defend anyone who managed and coached this team. Everybody is looking at why, and will point out the errors and not pay attention to what the alternatives were. Was Mac, a good GM. No. Was he a horrible GM, who never did anything right. No. He falls somewhere in between those two trains of thought.

if you look at any one of mac's drafts you could possibly make the case that he was somewhere between good and horrible but when you look at the whole sum of 5 drafts its plenty obvious he just didn't make good decisions.  the only time his draft decisions seemed good is when he was picking in the top 10.  then he was able to pick a plenty that was touted by many if not all of the "experts".  other than that he had a long string of misses in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds.  these are the bread and butter players that make up 80% of the rosters in the nfl.

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On 12/15/2019 at 8:49 AM, T0mShane said:

All 22 Eagles starters would start over the 22 Jets starters. 

Bruh do you even know how bad Jamal would wrap up Zach Ertz pls stop before you embarrass urself that’s straight facts son 👌🏻

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I will say this, people read this article more times in the first day than anything I can ever remember. Has no bearing on the outcome for Douglas but people are certainly interested in his track record. Great job Glenn.

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19 hours ago, Paradis said:

Macc's not overly responsible for late round picks and UDFAs. That's a notion been long debunked. At that point, they're more or less going off of what scouting personnel is proposing... I'm sure there's some GMs out there who are more invested than others - but if you think Macc was breaking down Fatukasi tape between trips to starbucks and contract negotiations in the spring of 2018... I don't know what to tell you. 

Since this thread is about Joe Douglas, let me use this little section to explain why I am hopeful despite being a guy that generally prefers athletic freaks to college production:

What I have read about Douglas is that he is very good at parsing through what his scouts tell him, reading between the lines, and understanding the code that these guys talk in.  Yes, these scouts all try to use the same language, but the words they use may read as code for different things, depending on the scout. 

Douglas supposedly has an excellent relationship with them and there is a difference where one guy may be pounding on the table for a player, while another may feel even more strongly about a guy and merely provided a strong report. 

BTW, I like Herndon but at this point he has 40/509/4.  At the end of his rookie year, epic bust Jace Amaro had 38/345/2.  A little production would be nice, particularly considering that the guy dropped because he was injured.  If Bless Austin (God forbid) never plays another snap as a Jet, are people going to tell us he was an awesome pick, it was just dumb luck he got hurt?

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On 12/15/2019 at 10:40 AM, Alka said:

Yes.  I didn't know that Joe Douglas was the GM of Philly and I didn't know that all the scouts in the Philly organization were people that Joe Douglas hired.  I didn't know that Joe Douglas had final say on all of the picks.  I didn't know that Joe Douglas set the agenda for the direction of the team in Philly.

Not that I'm any genius, because unfortunately I'm not that smart, but I wonder what the IQ is of normal Jets fans?

The narratives people come up with on this board are astounding.

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