Drew Brees, GOAT

[rangerous]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Those are all good names and def top 10-15. Especially Kelly. 

so much depends on the team these guys play on.  a guy like bradshaw is in the hof and has 4 sb rings but he wasn't the best qb of his era.

[Apache 51]

32 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Yeah love Brees he’s a HOF but has had the comfort of a dome and one of the best HC’s all time imo. Still one of the greatest but not the GOAT

He is amazing, No Doubt.

[The Crusher]

32 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Me too. You're point?

No point. Just sharing. 

[PCP63]

Lol at anyone putting Ben above Rodgers or Brees. 

[HessStation]

41 minutes ago, rangerous said:

so much depends on the team these guys play on.  a guy like bradshaw is in the hof and has 4 sb rings but he wasn't the best qb of his era.

Agree. Completely subjective but I try to take out the circumstances. Like if everyone of these guys played on the exact same team same coach FO etc. it’s why I wouldn’t call Montana or Brady the greatest QB ever etc. just a person thing.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

I live in dolphin country I have for the last 30 years and I absolutely hate the dolphins but that doesn’t make Marino a bad player.

I've had season tix since 77.

No other QB came into any of our stadiums and consistently made you think it would take all you had to beat his team, no matter the players he lined up with.  He was the greatest pure passer I've seen and would obliterate all these pointless records if he played todays game with todays rules

Only reason he never won that SB is because the fins never had a running game or D good enough to get them there

I hated that bastard and those teams but shlt could he throw the ball 

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Nothing wrong with that  group but I’d have a hard time Not fitting Big Ben in . He’s a deplorable human being but dude extends plays like no other and has had an impressive career. Truly a franchise QB that elevated play around him. Of course he had the advantage of playing for one of the most stabile franchise yet can’t ignore what he has done.,

It's definitely debatable for sure. I wouldnt disagree if Ben replaced Brady. 

[CTM]

Never understand why Jets fans want to tear down Brady over Belichick. Belichick is the dude that quit in 24 hrs as Jets HC with a completely disrespectful scrawled note on a napkin. Belichick is the guy who has looked to punish the Jets any chance he got by discouraging people from coming here and basically disowning Mangina for taking the job.

Lastly, to the extent that there was systemic cheating Belichick, not Brady, is the ring leader, and it was Belichick's defenses that likely benefited most of all as the initial allegations were about shutting down the Rams high powered offense in 2001 via taping. The fact that Brady has been so mediocre this year as age has robbed him of his abiltiies should be a clue that whatever cheating was occuring wasn't a miracle ale for him, meanwhile the defense has gone form ranked #31, to #16 to one of the better defenses of all time over the pat 3 years.

At the end of the day, I don't really care one way or the other about Brady other then messing with Jets fans, but I legitimately dislike Belichick and have since 99.

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

I would disagree calling him the greatest

 

1. He plays half of his games in a dome

Then you'd have to show how Brees play drastically changes from when he's playing in New Orleans to when he's playing away games. This statement only matters if you can show that he's a drastically different QB when not playing in a dome. If he's the same QB no matter where he plays, then the dome comment is irrelevant. 

Quote

2. We are having this discussion after last night's game (prisoner of the moment argument)

To be honest, I didnt see the game, nor have I heard the results. Im too lazy to look for it, but if I wanted to I could pull up past posts of mine calling Brees the GOAT in my opinion, months ago...maybe even going back a year. 

Brees and Manning have always been my two favorite QB's in the NFL. 

Quote

3. Besides the record for completions..he is holding a record that could be broken by sat (he has other records..ik)  

4. Sorry one championship is not gonna do it when other QBs have multiples...not just played in the games did crap to win those games (montana, ben, elway, brady(ik)...etc)

For me I dont get how can anyone have Manning so high on your list when he didnt perform in the playoffs like he did in the reg season.

 

Brees is an all-time great...I dont know if its top 5 or just about below it..but I dont think the majority would say he is the greatest

You're entitled to your opinion. It wont change mine, and I wont argue with yours because I am sure that whomever you have in that spot would have presented a strong case. 

 

Brees is a guy who has been incredibly overlooked, especially when it comes to personal accolades such as MVP. Dude has put together some of the most outrageous seasons but has never won it. 

 

He's the best in my opinion. 

[Savage69]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I've had season tix since 77.

No other QB came into any of our stadiums and consistently made you think it would take all you had to beat his team, no matter the players he lined up with.  He was the greatest pure passer I've seen and would obliterate all these pointless records if he played todays game with todays rules

Only reason he never won that SB is because the fins never had a running game or D good enough to get them there

I hated that bastard and those teams but shlt could throw the ball 

Imagine if he was a Jet with a running game and the Jet D.. Plus Toon Walker and Shuler..

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

Imagine if he was a Jet with a running game and the Jet D.. Plus Toon Walker and Shuler..

Imagine?

He threw for 5100 yards and 48 TDs in 1984!

With only 17 picks.  

Without a running game and two midget WRs.

Unreal.  

[rangerous]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I've had season tix since 77.

No other QB came into any of our stadiums and consistently made you think it would take all you had to beat his team, no matter the players he lined up with.  He was the greatest pure passer I've seen and would obliterate all these pointless records if he played todays game with todays rules

Only reason he never won that SB is because the fins never had a running game or D good enough to get them there

I hated that bastard and those teams but shlt could he throw the ball 

you really gotta wonder why he only made that one sb appearance.  shula's early doltfin teams were known for their defenses.  it's hard to believe shula suddenly forgot how to coach defense because marino was so good.  same thing with the run game.  csonka, kiick, morris were a pretty good trio and they had an exceptional oline.

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, CTM said:

Never understand why Jets fans want to tear down Brady over Belichick. Belichick is the dude that quit in 24 hrs as Jets HC with a completely disrespectful scrawled note on a napkin. Belichick is the guy who has looked to punish the Jets any chance he got by discouraging people from coming here and basically disowning Mangina for taking the job.

Lastly, to the extent that there was systemic cheating Belichick, not Brady, is the ring leader, and it was Belichick's defenses that likely benefited most of all as the initial allegations were about shutting down the Rams high powered offense in 2001 via taping. The fact that Brady has been so mediocre this year as age has robbed him of his abiltiies should be a clue that whatever cheating was occuring wasn't a miracle ale for him, meanwhile the defense has gone form ranked #31, to #16 to one of the better defenses of all time over the pat 3 years.

At the end of the day, I don't really care one way or the other about Brady other then messing with Jets fans, but I legitimately dislike Belichick and have since 99.

 

 

It’s reasonable. But it also makes it hard to put Brady in the argument of GOAT. No doubt an overachiever and great player but without knowing if the other franchises cheated as well it’s tough to make a comparison. All we know fir sure is the Pats have since the beginning and haven’t stopped. Nor will they until  Belichick steps down. 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

The way I personally judge it is if you started a franchise today with the greatest FO and coaching staff assembled, who would you take first where they’d play capable to their own era. That means same playing field, who’s the greatest actual QB not based on circumstance. Who would win me the most SBs without the different circumstances they were given during their tenure, if I put them all on the same team/staff:

My All Time List:

1. Marino

2. Manning P

3. Elway

Everyone else is on a second tier probably starting with Rodgers

Love it. Whenever I do this exercise, I always have Peyton and Elway 1 & 2 with Rodgers, Marino and Big Ben rounding out the top 5. I use this exercise to determine who the best QBs I've ever seen play are. 

Note, this is a different exercise from determining who the greatest QBs of all time are. Greatness to me includes team achievements and accolades, so for greatest QBs I've ever seen, Marino doesn't make the top 5 for me. 

[ghost_in_pads02]

21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then you'd have to show how Brees play drastically changes from when he's playing in New Orleans to when he's playing away games. This statement only matters if you can show that he's a drastically different QB when not playing in a dome. If he's the same QB no matter where he plays, then the dome comment is irrelevant. 

To be honest, I didnt see the game, nor have I heard the results. Im too lazy to look for it, but if I wanted to I could pull up past posts of mine calling Brees the GOAT in my opinion, months ago...maybe even going back a year. 

Brees and Manning have always been my two favorite QB's in the NFL. 

You're entitled to your opinion. It wont change mine, and I wont argue with yours because I am sure that whomever you have in that spot would have presented a strong case. 

 

Brees is a guy who has been incredibly overlooked, especially when it comes to personal accolades such as MVP. Dude has put together some of the most outrageous seasons but has never won it. 

 

He's the best in my opinion. 

Yea..I am with you that we would have to show brees indoor and outdoor #s and I dont doubt that his numbers will still be pretty good..my only debate to him playing indoor almost his whole career. Is that it's easy to throw not having to deal with the elements outdoor. (Like big ben having to play outdoors..)

Yea that's fair...your opinion is brees is the goat.

I just cant see it, definitely not for manning either but its fair.

And no argument at all for my number one...its not about who I would put at my number. I respect everyone's opinion on this...just some people's list are interesting to wonder why they chose who they chose.

[Charlie Brown]

13 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Sorry, Brady* is in the same room as Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong,  Mark Maguire, Sammy Sosa, and the Quiz Show guy from the 50s. 

Cheating ****s who get zero respect or credibility. 

 

Thank you..... Barry Bonds was the most fearsome hitter I have ever seen, does he get a pass and are folks calling him the GOAT???

Of course not, and nor should they, excellent analogy. Thank you!

[Charlie Brown]

58 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I've had season tix since 77.

No other QB came into any of our stadiums and consistently made you think it would take all you had to beat his team, no matter the players he lined up with.  He was the greatest pure passer I've seen and would obliterate all these pointless records if he played todays game with todays rules

Only reason he never won that SB is because the fins never had a running game or D good enough to get them there

I hated that bastard and those teams but shlt could he throw the ball 

In truth Marino is only diminished because he never won a SB.

No one in their RIGHT mind would say, for example, if you are starting a team with no one else on it, all things being equal that you would take say Brady over Marino. 

The recency bias is real for so many out here......

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

In truth Marino is only diminished because he never won a SB.

No one in their RIGHT mind would say, for example, if you are starting a team with no one else on it, all things being equal that you would take say Brady over Marino. 

The recency bias is real for so many out here......

Agree CB, there will always be those who put how his 21 other teammates perform over the course of a season over what a QB shows on his own, making it a reforendom against that QB.  We see SBs and forget that its ultimately a team game

Brady has the numbers, has had the teams and therefore has the rings but couldn't hold a candle next to a Marino throwing the ball.  

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, PCP63 said:

Lol at anyone putting Ben above Rodgers or Brees. 

He’s won more Super Bowls 

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

I dont know who the GOAT is.  The era and difference in rules makes it impossible to truly determine the GOAT.

All I know is, Tom Brady is not the GOAT.  He's a cheating scumbag piece of sh*t who doesnt have a pubic hair of talent that guys like Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson have. 

So, you can say it's Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Big Ben - dont care.  It's not Tom Brady, that is 100% certain.

Your my goat sweet one. 

[PCP63]

19 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He’s won more Super Bowls 

So Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino? Robert Horry is better than Michael Jordan? 

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Love it. Whenever I do this exercise, I always have Peyton and Elway 1 & 2 with Rodgers, Marino and Big Ben rounding out the top 5. I use this exercise to determine who the best QBs I've ever seen play are. 

Note, this is a different exercise from determining who the greatest QBs of all time are. Greatness to me includes team achievements and accolades, so for greatest QBs I've ever seen, Marino doesn't make the top 5 for me. 

Agreed. I can’t say Marino is the greatest all time Qb bc of the accolades...but he’s the best Qb I’ve ever seen play and if you put him on a better team a la Pitt, NE, Dallas, 49ers, Redskins of their era he’d be GOAT no doubt in my mind

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you..... Barry Bonds was the most fearsome hitter I have ever seen, does he get a pass and are folks calling him the GOAT???

Of course not, and nor should they, excellent analogy. Thank you!

Ken Griffey Jr hands down for me. Given my age but still. Anyway just wanted to throw that out there

[RutgersJetFan]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Best legitimate QBs of the current era:

1. Roethlisberger 

2. Brees

3. Peyton

4. Russell Wilson

5. Rodgers 

6. Rivers 

7. Eli

8. Matt Ryan 

9. Matt Stafford

 10. Null

The Colts lost Peyton and literally went from annual Super Bowl contender to worst team in the league. The Steelers lost Ben and they still might make the playoffs. Brees plays in a dome thus everything he does doesn't count.

[greenwichjetfan]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I agree with this. Championships can be overrated when it comes to quarterback talk. Unlike basketball, you can have an all-time great but with crap around them it would be hard to produce anything. I've seen Brees put up 40+ points and lose games. Thats an indictment on the defense, something that he cant do anything about. 

 

Drew Brees is the greatest QB of this generation in my book, after him is Peyton Manning and then after him is Brady. 

For me it's Peyton, but anyone who can get past "daahhh moar ringz" and rightly puts Peyton over Brady has my respect (although your whole Baker thing throws it for a loop! ?)

[Villain The Foe]

32 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

For me it's Peyton, but anyone who can get past "daahhh moar ringz" and rightly puts Peyton over Brady has my respect (although your whole Baker thing throws it for a loop! ?)

C'mon Green, now you know that it takes Villain a few years to come around to the truth of things.

If someone made this thread last year, Mike Glennon would have been in my top 5! ????

[14 in Green]

5 hours ago, thebuzzardman said:

Integrity. Who needs it? 

Personal life, yes. My sports teams? Meh...

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The Colts lost Peyton and literally went from annual Super Bowl contender to worst team in the league. The Steelers lost Ben and they still might make the playoffs. Brees plays in a dome thus everything he does doesn't count.

Peyton was a huge geek. Total beta.

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Peyton was a huge geek. Total beta.

Thing is you can point to the better Manning underperforming on big stages or on crucial drives during said big stage games after winning 12-14 games every year. 

Maybe it's just the passage of time, not to mention only seeing a few Miami games per year, and not having them scrutinized on a national level sans internet, but I didn't have this recollection with Marino crapping the bed in the playoffs. More that he had a lot of bottom-5 defenses and no ground game (bunch of Hampton-Nathan-Parmalee types who benefitted from Marino stretching the D rather than helping out Marino by keeping safeties in). Remember what a big deal it was that the Dolphins finally had one 1000-yard rusher in Karim Abdul-Jabbar right as Marino was nearing retirement? 

Looking it up now, the truth is Miami did get bounced pre-superbowl behind a lot of meh (if not outright stinker) playoff games from Marino. Only one he played well and lost was over a decade into his career. So I guess it's just my memory because it's 26-36 years ago. Hah. Good. Eff him. 

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The Colts lost Peyton and literally went from annual Super Bowl contender to worst team in the league. The Steelers lost Ben and they still might make the playoffs. Brees plays in a dome thus everything he does doesn't count.

The colts tanked to get Andrew luck, a year later with luck and they won more games than Peyton's last season.

You know peyton played most of his career in a dome, right?

Tomlin has done a great job but they haven't beat one playoff bound team.  

 

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Thing is you can point to the better Manning underperforming on big stages or on crucial drives during said big stage games after winning 12-14 games every year. 

Maybe it's just the passage of time, not to mention only seeing a few Miami games per year, and not having them scrutinized on a national level sans internet, but I didn't have this recollection with Marino crapping the bed in the playoffs. More that he had a lot of bottom-5 defenses and no ground game (bunch of Hampton-Nathan-Parmalee types who benefitted from Marino stretching the D rather than helping out Marino by keeping safeties in). Remember what a big deal it was that the Dolphins finally had one 1000-yard rusher in Karim Abdul-Jabbar right as Marino was nearing retirement? 

Looking it up now, the truth is Miami did get bounced pre-superbowl behind a lot of meh (if not outright stinker) playoff games from Marino. Only one he played well and lost was over a decade into his career. So I guess it's just my memory because it's 26-36 years ago. Hah. Good. Eff him. 

God dammit I’m still working on an adequate reply to your Seahawks receivers post and now I have to open a new file for this one. You evil bastard 

[Big_Slick]

18 hours ago, JetsLife said:

If he had the rings Brady did, I think Brees is the GOAT. As it stands perhaps he already is. He does absolutely amazing things on the football field. 

Cindy wouldn't have the rings if the cheats* didn't - CHEAT.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

6 hours ago, HessStation said:

Marino is the single greatest QB of all time imo. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I've had season tix since 77.

No other QB came into any of our stadiums and consistently made you think it would take all you had to beat his team, no matter the players he lined up with.  He was the greatest pure passer I've seen and would obliterate all these pointless records if he played todays game with todays rules

Only reason he never won that SB is because the fins never had a running game or D good enough to get them there

I hated that bastard and those teams but shlt could he throw the ball 

Agree with everything in your post.

What hurts the worst is I heard Don Shula put up cut ups between Marino and Namath and they practically mirrored each other.  From the lightning release to the cannon arm.

It also brings back memories of shouting and then whipping a baseball through a closet door 2 seconds after Rozelle said “the N.Y. Jets select QB”...and then with an evil grin slow rolled saying the name, the 2 second pause felt like 2 centuries..”Ken OBrien University Cal Davis”.

It wasn’t as bad with Mahomes a few years ago.   But I wanted him drafted.  Sad, what a difference I could have made in the team’s HISTORY if I were GM and was able to pick Marino and Mahomes....and neither selection was rocket science.  Mahomes made all the sense in the world if you KNEW Hackenberg couldn’t play...and it seems ONLY Jet brass thought he could.  100,000 Penn St fans who attended every one of his games laughed in unison when Maccagnan made the pick.

[Big_Slick]

7 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Why is Marino always so high on these lists ? He's never won a SB . He's just a compiler . SQUISH THAT FISH .

Danny boy was the GOAT of garbage time stats. Phins down by three scores in the 4th qtr and he pile up stats against prevent D's.