2020 Draft OL thread

[RobR]

On 12/18/2019 at 7:49 PM, maury77 said:

Tristan Wirfs & Alaric Jackson

 

Wirfs is a ******* complete animal. The only knock I can find in his game is he keeps dropping and leading with his head.....that's it, and something like that should be easily correctable. 

Top 5 best run blocking tackle I have ever seen. Would love him in green and white. 

[kdels62]

32 minutes ago, RobR said:

Wirfs is a ******* complete animal. The only knock I can find in his game is he keeps dropping and leading with his head.....that's it, and something like that should be easily correctable. 

Top 5 best run blocking tackle I have ever seen. Would love him in green and white. 

Love the guy. The more I watch the less I believe he’ll make it to 11. When his team needed a jolt in that bowl game they just ran behind him for 6 yards. But then I watched that tape and that was what his team did every game.

[RobR]

9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Love the guy. The more I watch the less I believe he’ll make it to 11. When his team needed a jolt in that bowl game they just ran behind him for 6 yards. But then I watched that tape and that was what his team did every game.

The only way he drops to 11 is if he measures with some shorty arms and I don't see it. He does play with a less than ideal base but now I'm splitting hairs. It's amazing how many people he puts on the ground and punishes. I get why some think RT only but I think he could move to LT. Worst case scenario is you have a dominating RT for a decade barring injury because he has zero bust potential.

Next up is time for some Thomas tape since I haven't watched one game yet beyond what I've seen live and I never scout Oline during the season. If you do you'll miss the entire game.

[kdels62]

18 minutes ago, RobR said:

The only way he drops to 11 is if he measures with some shorty arms and I don't see it. He does play with a less than ideal base but now I'm splitting hairs. It's amazing how many people he puts on the ground and punishes. I get why some think RT only but I think he could move to LT. Worst case scenario is you have a dominating RT for a decade barring injury because he has zero bust potential.

Next up is time for some Thomas tape since I haven't watched one game yet beyond what I've seen live and I never scout Oline during the season. If you do you'll miss the entire game.

I’ve been on vacation, deep diving into these guys and pissing off my girlfriend. But this year the promise of drafting an OL has me giddy and Wirfs makes me the most giddy of them all.

Also Thomas is Brick. That’s my takeaway with him.

[RobR]

19 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Also Thomas is Brick. That’s my takeaway with him.

Interesting take. I'll end up watching Thomas next but bodywise I don't see DBrick at all.....like not even close at all. Most people forget Brick was about 280lbs his rookie season and routinely got beat. 

Agree 100% with Wirfs. Love him and he looks like a tone setter....just an absolute beast. 

[Dinamite]

What about Adams from Wisconsin?  I read he would have been a top 10-15 pick last year, but he stayed in school and had injuries.  And I am asking about him in a trade down or second round pick, not 11.

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Dinamite said:

What about Adams from Wisconsin?  I read he would have been a top 10-15 pick last year, but he stayed in school and had injuries.  And I am asking about him in a trade down or second round pick, not 11.

Adams is an injury risk. If he’s there in the 3rd we gotta take him.

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

Interesting take. I'll end up watching Thomas next but bodywise I don't see DBrick at all.....like not even close at all. Most people forget Brick was about 280lbs his rookie season and routinely got beat. 

Agree 100% with Wirfs. Love him and he looks like a tone setter....just an absolute beast. 

He might be bigger but the game is similar. I was too young to remember UVA Brick so my point of reference is finished product Brick so I don’t mean it as an insult to Thomas. Brick was a great Jet and I miss those 10 years.

[King P]

3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I’ve been on vacation, deep diving into these guys and pissing off my girlfriend. But this year the promise of drafting an OL has me giddy and Wirfs makes me the most giddy of them all.

Also Thomas is Brick. That’s my takeaway with him.

 

3 hours ago, RobR said:

Interesting take. I'll end up watching Thomas next but bodywise I don't see DBrick at all.....like not even close at all. Most people forget Brick was about 280lbs his rookie season and routinely got beat. 

Agree 100% with Wirfs. Love him and he looks like a tone setter....just an absolute beast. 

After watching Wirfs more, he's really grown on me. I really think he can play LT too. I'm all for Wirfs at 11 if he's there.

As for Thomas, when I watch him I see alot of Jason Peters in him

[RobR]

7 minutes ago, King P said:

As for Thomas, when I watch him I see alot of Jason Peters in him

He's definitely up next and without watching any tape I also get a Peters vibe and build.

I'd also be ecstatic with that type of play for the next decade for the 11th overall. This is turning into a historic OT draft and barely anyone is mentioning it. 

[sec101row23]

5 hours ago, RobR said:

He's definitely up next and without watching any tape I also get a Peters vibe and build.

I'd also be ecstatic with that type of play for the next decade for the 11th overall. This is turning into a historic OT draft and barely anyone is mentioning it. 

I agree.  Usually you don’t see this many OT prospects that are actually projected to play OT in the NFL.  It’s usually a couple OTs and then a bunch of guys who may project better to play inside.  This draft has probably 6 legit OT prospects that could go in the first 40 picks.  

[Chrebetfan80]

On 12/24/2019 at 12:07 AM, Paradis said:

Mark Jarvis: Wills is OT1

So far from what I've watched Wills is my OT1, followed by thomas.  Wirfs the more i watch him the more i keep thinking what a great guard he'll be.. Not to say he cant play tackle, just this weird vibe i keep getting from watching tape.  Admittedly I'm not as nuanced an OL scout as I am at WR/QB,  but so far thats what I've seen. 

[Guilhermezmc]

2 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

So far from what I've watched Wills is my OT1, followed by thomas.  Wirfs the more i watch him the more i keep thinking what a great guard he'll be.. Not to say he cant play tackle, just this weird vibe i keep getting from watching tape.  Admittedly I'm not as nuanced an OL scout as I am at WR/QB,  but so far thats what I've seen. 

same thing here

[kdels62]

11 hours ago, RobR said:

He's definitely up next and without watching any tape I also get a Peters vibe and build.

I'd also be ecstatic with that type of play for the next decade for the 11th overall. This is turning into a historic OT draft and barely anyone is mentioning it. 

The thing that keeps sticking out with Thomas is that he super long limbed and still had difficulty (relative to other elite Ot prospects) preventing power guys getting into his chest. His limbs are long but not thick and his lack of power really stood out against LSU in the run game. He  got beat for a sack because he was expecting the pass rusher to use power on him and he over adjusted, letting the rusher beat him outside.

[derp]

Just one man’s opinion, but Dane Brugler released an updated top 100. Biadasz was the 4th ranked center at 89 overall. Creed Humphrey did not make an appearance.

Top three centers were Lloyd Cushenberry (LSU, 49 overall), Cesar Ruiz (Michigan, 53 overall), and Matt Hennessy (Temple, 76 overall). All three and plus Biadasz and Humphrey are juniors. Don’t think Cushenberry or Biadasz is officially in.

Reminder that early rankings change - and not based off of the combine. And also that this seems to be a really solid class to find an upgrade at the pivot. Wouldn’t hate one in round 2 but depending on team needs that Giants pick could be a really nice option to get a starting caliber guy and allow the team to take a tackle and a receiver in the first two.

[RobR]

24 minutes ago, derp said:

Just one man’s opinion, but Dane Brugler released an updated top 100. Biadasz was the 4th ranked center at 89 overall. Creed Humphrey did not make an appearance.

And so it begins. Sounds like he might have been reading JN. 

[section314]

8 minutes ago, RobR said:

And so it begins. Sounds like he might have been reading JN. 

He's just throwing darts until your stuff comes out.?

[Philc1]

On 1/5/2020 at 1:00 AM, RobR said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Becton is the first tackle off the board. Just started into some of his tape but he is mammoth and moves like a gazelle for that size. He is going to measure and test off the charts for someone that size and he has the tape behind it. 

Deep draft class at OT

[BCJet]

3 hours ago, derp said:

Just one man’s opinion, but Dane Brugler released an updated top 100. Biadasz was the 4th ranked center at 89 overall. Creed Humphrey did not make an appearance.

Top three centers were Lloyd Cushenberry (LSU, 49 overall), Cesar Ruiz (Michigan, 53 overall), and Matt Hennessy (Temple, 76 overall). All three and plus Biadasz and Humphrey are juniors. Don’t think Cushenberry or Biadasz is officially in.

Reminder that early rankings change - and not based off of the combine. And also that this seems to be a really solid class to find an upgrade at the pivot. Wouldn’t hate one in round 2 but depending on team needs that Giants pick could be a really nice option to get a starting caliber guy and allow the team to take a tackle and a receiver in the first two.

I thought that Biadasz was in?  I know that Humphrey has not made an official decision yet, nor has Austin Jackson.

Id imagine Humphrey would be the top ranked center and that Jackson would slot in around the same spot as Beckton.  

[maury77]

I'm going to throw more center tape in hear. Nick Harris, Ruiz from Michigan, Hennessy from Temple. Anyone else I'm missing?

[RobR]

1 minute ago, maury77 said:

I'm going to throw more center tape in hear. Nick Harris, Ruiz from Michigan, Hennessy from Temple. Anyone else I'm missing?

You should start a different thread or else it will get buried in here. Thanks for work finding the tape....it's not always that easy anymore.

[RobR]

On 12/18/2019 at 7:48 PM, maury77 said:

Andrew Thomas & Isaiah Wilson

 

After watching those tapes Thomas is now my favorite OT in this class. He has it all, quickness, strength, and some nastiness. Assuming he measures well which is a given at this point he's my first OT off the board. 

I don't remember ever seeing this many quality OT's available. 

Edit: I'm taking Thomas over Wirfs and I love both.  

[kdels62]

47 minutes ago, RobR said:

After watching those tapes Thomas is now my favorite OT in this class. He has it all, quickness, strength, and some nastiness. Assuming he measures well which is a given at this point he's my first OT off the board. 

I don't remember ever seeing this many quality OT's available. 

Edit: I'm taking Thomas over Wirfs and I love both.  

I don’t disagree. He’s more polished and typical. I like that he’s nastier than Wills. Thomas’s strength is a bit of a concern for me but his feet are ridiculous.

[RobR]

10 hours ago, kdels62 said:

The thing that keeps sticking out with Thomas is that he super long limbed and still had difficulty (relative to other elite Ot prospects) preventing power guys getting into his chest. His limbs are long but not thick and his lack of power really stood out against LSU in the run game. He  got beat for a sack because he was expecting the pass rusher to use power on him and he over adjusted, letting the rusher beat him outside.

He is more Tyron Smith than any other comparison I've seen so far.. I haven't watched the LSU tape yet but Thomas should be at the top of most teams list because he is a legit LT at the next level. It's almost like I'm watching a different player than you are and we're normally in agreement. 

Positives: He looks lean and long and knows how to use that arm length for a punch. Highly athletic and can move and locate with the best of them. Plays to the whistle. Not only will he measure well but the tape is there and I'm guessing a top 5 pick at this time.

Negatives: Not many

 

[RobR]

21 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I don’t disagree. He’s more polished and typical. I like that he’s nastier than Wills. Thomas’s strength is a bit of a concern for me but his feet are ridiculous.

After watching those two videos I think Thomas is a plug and play LT. I'm not sure I can say that for any other prospects....at least from the get go.

This is a historic OT and WR class and JD walked into the best draft class ever for our NY Jets. I'm hoping a QB that sucks becomes available and we're able to trade down and hoard some picks.

Hell...I wish I was in charge this offseason.

[David Harris]

Who is the 4th ranked tackle - Becton or Josh Jones or somebody else.

 

Wills, Wirfs or Thomas - feels like 50/50 one of them will be there at 11, but if not then who?

You gotta hope that 3 qbs go too 10- Joe, Tua?, Herbert?, Eason?  That would be excellent- get a few defensive guys in the top 10, a receiver or two, maybe a safety.  Ceedee Lamb would be a great consolation if the top 3 Tackles are gone

[kdels62]

On 1/8/2020 at 12:10 AM, RobR said:

After watching those two videos I think Thomas is a plug and play LT. I'm not sure I can say that for any other prospects....at least from the get go.

This is a historic OT and WR class and JD walked into the best draft class ever for our NY Jets. I'm hoping a QB that sucks becomes available and we're able to trade down and hoard some picks.

Hell...I wish I was in charge this offseason.

Haha I love the top of the OL class. The 3 top guys all go before Jonah Williams if the last two drafts were combined. I’ve been nitpicking but all 3 look really great. 
 

After them, I only really like Wanogho as an immediate OT starter. Not coming away with 1 of the big 3 would be demoralizing.

[derp]

On 1/8/2020 at 8:36 AM, kdels62 said:

Haha I love the top of the OL class. The 3 top guys all go before Jonah Williams if the last two drafts were combined. I’ve been nitpicking but all 3 look really great. 
 

After then though I only really like Wanogho as an immediate OT starter. Not coming away with 1 of the big 3 would be demoralizing.

As much as the team needs to accumulate picks, seems like a unique opportunity to grab a top tackle. If two go in the top 8 picks there are probably ways to get ahead of Cleveland without giving up a ton. Something like 11 and the second 3rd for 9 and Jacksonville’s 4th or 11, the earlier 3rd, and 4th for Jacksonville’s 3rd lines up well.

Hopefully quarterbacks push guys down though. Jacksonville will be in a nice spot to move down if the three tackle tier remains in place as if two or even one is off the board - a clear need for the two teams behind them.

[jetstream23]

On 1/7/2020 at 6:21 AM, sec101row23 said:

I agree.  Usually you don’t see this many OT prospects that are actually projected to play OT in the NFL.  It’s usually a couple OTs and then a bunch of guys who may project better to play inside.  This draft has probably 6 legit OT prospects that could go in the first 40 picks.  

Agree 100%.  But my big concern is that the Jets are sitting right in the gap between the two tiers of OT.

I see Wirfs, Thomas, Wills as all Top 10 worthy players.....and they could all go in that range.  Then I see a drop off before guys like Becton, Jackson, Prince, etc. should be taken (20-40 range?).  The Jets 2nd round pick is 48.

On the flip side, we're right where we'd want to be for a WR.  There are two Top 10 guys in Jeudy and Lamb.  But there are arguably and 2-3 guys who would be appropriate in the 10-20 range like Ruggs, Higgins, Shenault.

Those are obviously just my opinions about the ranges where guys could/should go and I'm sure others will differ.  We also know there will be movement in the grading/ranking of these guys as Combine and Pro Days take place, but my current concern still exists - I think the Jets could miss on the first Tier of OTs and be too early on the second Tier.  If I were running the Jets Draft I'd have to consider that at #11 the intersection of talent/value/need could land on WR and I'd need the conviction to pull the trigger there, and then I'd have to consider moving up from #48 in Round 2 to get into that second Tier of OTs.  Or, I'd consider trading back from #11 to try to get my first choice in the second Tier of OTs, and grab someone's 2nd rounder to do it.

[jetstream23]

On 1/7/2020 at 8:02 AM, Chrebetfan80 said:

So far from what I've watched Wills is my OT1, followed by thomas.  Wirfs the more i watch him the more i keep thinking what a great guard he'll be.. Not to say he cant play tackle, just this weird vibe i keep getting from watching tape.  Admittedly I'm not as nuanced an OL scout as I am at WR/QB,  but so far thats what I've seen. 

The thing that's elevating Wirfs seems to be his positional flexibility.  We know he's a stud RT (played that spot this season), but there's also consensus that he'd be an excellent LT.  Then you mention OG which I don't doubt he could play as well.

The question is this......If Wirfs is a potential Top 5 RT in the NFL, and maybe a Top 15 LT.....would you take him over a guy like Thomas who may only be a LT but could be a Top 5-10 LT?

Positional flexibility is important.  If the Jets were so lucky as to land Wirfs at #11 it seems like a slam dunk plan to start him at RT in 2020 while having Beachum back at LT on a one-year deal, then plan to transition Wirfts to LT next offseason so he can play it for the next decade.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

The thing that's elevating Wirfs seems to be his positional flexibility.  We know he's a stud RT (played that spot this season), but there's also consensus that he'd be an excellent LT.  Then you mention OG which I don't doubt he could play as well.

The question is this......If Wirfs is a potential Top 5 RT in the NFL, and maybe a Top 15 LT.....would you take him over a guy like Thomas who may only be a LT but could be a Top 5-10 LT?

Positional flexibility is important.  If the Jets were so lucky as to land Wirfs at #11 it seems like a slam dunk plan to start him at RT in 2020 while having Beachum back at LT on a one-year deal, then plan to transition Wirfts to LT next offseason so he can play it for the next decade.

I think given the two right now i would take thomas over wirfs even though the position flexibility is a big bonus.  The only thing Id really want to look at more is the fit in a zone scheme which admittedly I havent really looked at my notes and the tape to see which id prefer in that regard.  

 

If wirfs is the pick at 11, and its very plausible he could be, then I would agree with you it would make a lot more sense to bring back beachum on a 1-2 year deal and start wirfs at RT for a year before transitioning him to LT for the future. But there is also something to be said about him getting the reps at LT right off the bat so that he grows into it and is ready to roll going forward. no adjustments in year 2. 

[RobR]

Here is some more Wirfs tape two years ago. If two tackles go ahead of him and he is available at 11 I'm pouncing on him in a heartbeat. He has some aspects of his game that needs improving (still dropping that head in 2019) but he is as plug and play ready that I wouldn't consider him a rookie. Combine movements will be huge for him.....no one is worried about the strength.

 

[RobR]

On 12/18/2019 at 7:48 PM, maury77 said:

Andrew Thomas & Isaiah Wilson

 

Just watched the Texas tape again from the 2018season/2019Sugarbowl  season and Thomas is still my favorite LT in this strong class. I can't see him making it to our pick at #11. 

[RobR]

He solidified my ranking this early as the top ranking LT in this class. The sky is the limit for this kid.

 

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, RobR said:

He solidified my ranking this early as the top ranking LT in this class. The sky is the limit for this kid.

 

I can’t fully buy into Wills like I have with Thomas and Wirfs.