It's time to speak the truth about Jonotthan Harrison

[Alka]

Jonothan Harrison got a raw deal here at the start of the season.  The offensive coaches and our new General Manager didn't believe that Harrison was the answer at offensive center, and pulled a "has-been" out of retirement and paid him tons of money to upgrade and stabilize the position on the offensive line.

That turned out to be a crock of sh*t.  Jonathan Harrison deserves to be the starting center now, and he deserves to go into next season with every reason to believe that he will continue to be our center.  Our GM and offensive coaches "failed us" in that they didn't properly evaluate Harrison, or at least didn't give him a chance.

Well, he got that chance after the guy they paid millions of dollars to come out of retirement failed at center, and then only because he got injured, was pulled out from the lineup and went back to Harrison.  Harrison then showed stability and competence, and I would like our GM and coaches to admit they made a mistake.

We could have spent money better in just getting a player like Suggs on our team, just as an example.  In any case, let's not put all the blame on our lousy season this year on the players; the GM and perhaps the offensive line coach deserves some of the blame in not evaluating our talent properly.

[Losmeister]

kalil was a bad whiff fur sure

[nico002]

I said this since day 1

Kalil is a fraud and I’m hugely concerned that Douglas has no ******* clue what he’s doing based on this terrible terrible move. 

[KRL]

Kalil was a worthwhile risk based on his resume.  But he needed 
to earn the starting job, not just have it given to him.  Harrison
was there all off-season and developed chemistry with Darnold and
the rest of the OLine.  That shouldn't have been ignored, the
handling of Kalil was definitely a fail by Douglas/Gase

[Joejet]

The coaching staff identified center as a position that needed to be upgraded. Based on that Douglas went out and brought in Kalil who at the time seem like the most viable option. Douglas came in after all of the better free agents had been picked up and took a chance that Kalil had one more year left in him.  In hindsight it was a poor move and the coaching staff started him and then stayed with when he wasn’t the better option.  I still believe that they need to upgrade the position in the offseason as Harrison is nice depth but not an upper echelon center.

[Alka]

4 minutes ago, KRL said:

Kalil was a worthwhile risk based on his resume.  But he needed 
to earn the starting job, not just have it given to him.  Harrison
was there all off-season and developed chemistry with Darnold and
the rest of the OLine.  That shouldn't have been ignored, the
handling of Kalil was definitely a fail by Douglas/Gase

It's very revealing to me that when our GM got fired, and we got all new coaches this year, we went into the preseason saying that now the players who got drafted and were big money people would have to earn their stripes, since there was no allegiance to any of them because our new leaders did not have anything invested in them personally.

That is why we cut our 3rd round rookie linebacker before the season, because he didn't earn his position on the team.

Now, we get a glimpse of how the new regime invests in Kalil, and just like you said, didn't earn his position, but was given his position because our new GM put him there.  

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

[Sammybighead]

I’d still look to upgrade the position in the draft. Start grooming a young stud center behind harrison

[JustInFudge]

I was pro Harrison all offseason while this board was having a conniption about not signing a C.  I said it over and over again, Harrison is good and Sam played his best ball behind him.  This board than had a collective circle jerk for signing Matt Kalil who I said needs to earn the starting job.  That coupled with Mono is directly responsible for the poor start to this season.

Kalil made me want to bring Spencer Long back, that's how bad he was.

[T0mShane]

Terrell Suggs you say 

[Adoni Beast]

Absolutely insane that Kalil who wasn’t even close to football shape was allowed to start immediately. 

Harrison has been serviceable in pass protection. But I just don’t see any push in the run game from the interior line.

I wouldn’t mind having him back another year if a better replacement isn’t found, but the position still needs to be upgraded long term. 

[Alka]

3 minutes ago, Joejet said:

The coaching staff identified center as a position that needed to be upgraded. Based on that Douglas went out and brought in Kalil who at the time seem like the most viable option. Douglas came in after all of the better free agents had been picked up and took a chance that Kalil had one more year left in him.  In hindsight it was a poor move and the coaching staff started him and then stayed with when he wasn’t the better option.  I still believe that they need to upgrade the position in the offseason as Harrison is nice depth but not an upper echelon center.

Look, it would be nice to upgrade every position on the team, but reality is that we don't have enough draft picks and money to do that.  Wouldn't you agree that we need a Offensive tackle and left guard more then we need a center?  How about a #1 wide receiver?  How about a #1 cornerback?  How about an edge rusher?  We don't have any of these guys.  I believe that Harrison deserves that opportunity for next year, since we have more pressing needs at other positions.  

[TNJet]

Sure, I'll speak the truth. We can do much better. From a rookie draft pick at C. Biadasz for example.

[kdels62]

It’s an illusion. Harrison is bad. He gets no push in the run game and is average at best in protection. However, he is really smart and really good at helping Darnold at the line of scrimmage. He should be upgraded to someone who is good at the line calls and isn’t bad at blocking.

[Joejet]

12 minutes ago, Alka said:

Look, it would be nice to upgrade every position on the team, but reality is that we don't have enough draft picks and money to do that.  Wouldn't you agree that we need a Offensive tackle and left guard more then we need a center?  How about a #1 wide receiver?  How about a #1 cornerback?  How about an edge rusher?  We don't have any of these guys.  I believe that Harrison deserves that opportunity for next year, since we have more pressing needs at other positions.  

You make a fair point in that we have a number of positions that need upgrades.  Depending on who shakes loose in free agency and who is available when we draft will decide which ones get taken care of this year.

[nyjets1969]

Darnold is the 4th most sacked QB in the league the whole line needs to go. Harrison is not a good center. Douglas and Gase know that by the time Douglas got in all the top tier FA centers were gone with no real solution at center they took a chance on kalil you cant fault them for that the money should have been spent on Mitch Morse over Bell.Gase is right about 1 thing RBs are easy to draft the Eagles drafted Miles Sanders look at him. You dont go out and spend 50 million on a RB.

[CSNY]

57 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

It’s an illusion. Harrison is bad. He gets no push in the run game and is average at best in protection. However, he is really smart and really good at helping Darnold at the line of scrimmage. He should be upgraded to someone who is good at the line calls and isn’t bad at blocking.

We have two below average guards starting on the OLine. While Harrison is not on par with the pro bowl caliber centers we have been spoiled with over the years I believe he is adequate at center and if we can draft 2 road grader type guards to flank him that would make him better as well along with making the running game much improved which in turn helps the passing attack since if you run the ball with consistency opposing defenses will need to respect the run committing additional personnel to stopping the run opening up more passing lanes. Whoever said years ago that games are won in the trenches was correct then and to this day 

[Sarge4Tide]

Alex Lewis has also been solid in replacing Osemele

[Bowles Movement]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

It's very revealing to me that when our GM got fired, and we got all new coaches this year, we went into the preseason saying that now the players who got drafted and were big money people would have to earn their stripes, since there was no allegiance to any of them because our new leaders did not have anything invested in them personally.

That is why we cut our 3rd round rookie linebacker before the season, because he didn't earn his position on the team.

Now, we get a glimpse of how the new regime invests in Kalil, and just like you said, didn't earn his position, but was given his position because our new GM put him there.  

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

When a former Pro Bowl player is added to the team to improve quality and depth, you have to respect his resume and give him a chance to play his way into shape.  You dont bench Tom Brady off one or two bad games and even Kalil deserved a chance before being benched.  The fact that they invested 8 Million in him, also needs to be factored in-No one likes to admit their mistakes until they have to, but at least they eventually did make the change.  The act that they signed Kalil tells me that they dont think Harrison is the long term answer.  At least he did stabilize the position for the second straight year.

[joewilly12]

Hopefully we never see Ryan Kalil in a NY Jets uniform again. 

[y2k8]

1 hour ago, nyjets1969 said:

Darnold is the 4th most sacked QB in the league the whole line needs to go. Harrison is not a good center. Douglas and Gase know that by the time Douglas got in all the top tier FA centers were gone with no real solution at center they took a chance on kalil you cant fault them for that the money should have been spent on Mitch Morse over Bell.Gase is right about 1 thing RBs are easy to draft the Eagles drafted Miles Sanders look at him. You dont go out and spend 50 million on a RB.

Totally agree.  This is probably the recency bias talking but I do not recall a season when the Jets o-line was this bad.  Pass protection has been terrible but the run blocking has been even worse. I mean, Sam on occasion, has time.  When have they opened a hole for a RB with an OL getting to the second level?  Our running plays are just rugby scrums!

A few of these guys are going to have to come back because they can't all be replaced,  But if they drafted 4 OL in April I'd be ok with that.

[HawkeyeJet]

The truth about Harrison is that he has been better than Kalil but has not been good overall either.  He should not be considered a starter going into next year.

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

Totally agree.  This is probably the recency bias talking but I do not recall a season when the Jets o-line was this bad.  Pass protection has been terrible but the run blocking has been even worse. I mean, Sam on occasion, has time.  When have they opened a hole for a RB with an OL getting to the second level?  Our running plays are just rugby scrums!

A few of these guys are going to have to come back because they can't all be replaced,  But if they drafted 4 OL in April I'd be ok with that.

u can check

[jetscrazey]

The Kalil signing set this team back, no doubt about it.  I don't care how experienced he is, or how good a leader he is, he's done.

[y2k8]

8 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

u can check

It was my understanding there would be no math.

[Losmeister]

5 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

It was my understanding there would be no math.

its done for you

[Larz]

2 separate coaching staffs considered him a backup and pff agrees. 
 

hes better than spencer long with a broken hand but that’s it 

[Losmeister]

5 minutes ago, Larz said:

2 separate coaching staffs considered him a backup and pff agrees. 
 

hes better than kalil and spencer long with a broken hand but that’s it 

like that, i think.

[Jetscode1]

2 hours ago, Alka said:

Jonothan Harrison got a raw deal here at the start of the season.  The offensive coaches and our new General Manager didn't believe that Harrison was the answer at offensive center, and pulled a "has-been" out of retirement and paid him tons of money to upgrade and stabilize the position on the offensive line.

That turned out to be a crock of sh*t.  Jonathan Harrison deserves to be the starting center now, and he deserves to go into next season with every reason to believe that he will continue to be our center.  Our GM and offensive coaches "failed us" in that they didn't properly evaluate Harrison, or at least didn't give him a chance.

Well, he got that chance after the guy they paid millions of dollars to come out of retirement failed at center, and then only because he got injured, was pulled out from the lineup and went back to Harrison.  Harrison then showed stability and competence, and I would like our GM and coaches to admit they made a mistake.

We could have spent money better in just getting a player like Suggs on our team, just as an example.  In any case, let's not put all the blame on our lousy season this year on the players; the GM and perhaps the offensive line coach deserves some of the blame in not evaluating our talent properly.

I liked what I saw from Harrison (definitely a huge improvement over Kalil) but if Biadasz is on the board when we pick, I'd run that card up.  Dude is a beast.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-draft-player-preview-tyler-biadasz/

[Apache 51]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

It’s an illusion. Harrison is bad. He gets no push in the run game and is average at best in protection. However, he is really smart and really good at helping Darnold at the line of scrimmage. He should be upgraded to someone who is good at the line calls and isn’t bad at blocking.

That's the basic requirement of a center. This offseason is going to be real interesting  with JD being a former lineman.

[Untouchable]

30 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The truth about Harrison is that he has been better than Kalil but has not been good overall either.  He should not be considered a starter going into next year.

I agree, but unless we draft a kid like Biadasz in the 1st or Humphrey in the 2nd (most likely by moving up), then I don’t see where the upgrade is coming from.

The best centers set to hit FA are guys like A.Q. Shipley and Joe Looney, who has been backing up Frederick in Dallas. I wouldn’t spend a penny on either to replace Harrison as the starter.

[bitonti]

note Conor McDermott stepping in for Tom Compton stepping in for Brian Winters

Adam Gase wants 4 right tackles and a center

they don't have to be maulers in a phone booth (Gabe Jackson, Marshal Yanda type) but they need to be tall and long *6'5" and over* and be able to wall off blockers in zone looks, maybe get to the second level. Winters was never the type of player Gase wanted, KO either. Lewis is more like what he wants in linemen. 

All this is to say...

they could beat BUF ya know, it's going to be like preseason for them assuming MIA loses to NE, and the Jets would be 7-9 picking in the teens... 

Douglas can draft a center but the Wisconsin guy everyone wants will be there in rd 2 and 3 

Douglas could find the perfect LT at 10 or whatever 17 if they beat BUF

but by the time FA is done, line won't be the worst need on the team. they are desperate for Edge, CB (Bless Austin was benched this week) and WR1 to beat the jam, regardless of whether they sign Robby or not 

O Line feels like a want for the fans rather than a need for the coach. Gase probably wants speed guys a better Ty Montgomery etc.  Douglas will probably be able to find more scrubby RT types like Lewis and Edoga could even be a starter somewhere in there.  

 

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

note Conor McDermott stepping in for Tom Compton stepping in for Brian Winters

Adam Gase wants 4 right tackles and a center

they don't have to be maulers in a phone booth (Gabe Jackson, Marshal Yanda type) but they need to be tall and long *6'5" and over* and be able to wall off blockers in zone looks, maybe get to the second level. Winters was never the type of player Gase wanted, KO either. Lewis is more like what he wants in linemen. 

All this is to say...

they could beat BUF ya know, it's going to be like preseason for them assuming MIA loses to NE, and the Jets would be 7-9 picking in the teens... 

Douglas can draft a center but the Wisconsin guy everyone wants will be there in rd 2 and 3 

Douglas could find the perfect LT at 10 or whatever 17 if they beat BUF

but by the time FA is done, line won't be the worsts need on the team. they are desperate for Edge, CB (Bless Austin was benched this week) and WR1 to beat the jam 

Line feels like a want for the fans rather than a need for the coach.  Douglas will probably be able to find more scrubby RT types like Lewis and Edoga could even be a starter somewhere in there. 

 

Not a chance Biadasz is there in the 2nd, much less the 3rd.

He’s a better prospect than Bradbury was last year and he went 18th overall.

I could easily see a scenario like in 2018, where similar to Billy Price and Frank Ragnow, both Biadasz and Creed Humphrey go in the Top 25.

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, Alka said:

Jonothan Harrison got a raw deal here at the start of the season.  The offensive coaches and our new General Manager didn't believe that Harrison was the answer at offensive center, and pulled a "has-been" out of retirement and paid him tons of money to upgrade and stabilize the position on the offensive line.

That turned out to be a crock of sh*t.  Jonathan Harrison deserves to be the starting center now, and he deserves to go into next season with every reason to believe that he will continue to be our center.  Our GM and offensive coaches "failed us" in that they didn't properly evaluate Harrison, or at least didn't give him a chance.

Well, he got that chance after the guy they paid millions of dollars to come out of retirement failed at center, and then only because he got injured, was pulled out from the lineup and went back to Harrison.  Harrison then showed stability and competence, and I would like our GM and coaches to admit they made a mistake.

We could have spent money better in just getting a player like Suggs on our team, just as an example.  In any case, let's not put all the blame on our lousy season this year on the players; the GM and perhaps the offensive line coach deserves some of the blame in not evaluating our talent properly.

Jesus....enough with this "The GM didn't properly evaluate him."  The GM was here for two weeks for crying out loud!

If you want to bitch about who didn't evaluate him, bitch about the former GM.  Bitch about Gase.  Bitch about the OC.  Bitch about all the other O coaches.  The GM got here and said "give me your evaluations on what you need."  He was told we need a centre, and he went out and got the best he could find after the table was picked clean at the garage sale.

If Joe Douglas goes out next year and craps the bed with his F/A signings and his draft, then we can start assessing this kind of blame.  If Joe Douglas keeps the original kicker and doesn't fix the problem, then you assign blame.  But to blame him for this season when he came in as late as he does is just postulating. 

Another reason in a long line of reasons why the NY Jets can't have nice things. 

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Alka said:

Jonothan Harrison got a raw deal here at the start of the season.  The offensive coaches and our new General Manager didn't believe that Harrison was the answer at offensive center, and pulled a "has-been" out of retirement and paid him tons of money to upgrade and stabilize the position on the offensive line.

That turned out to be a crock of sh*t.  Jonathan Harrison deserves to be the starting center now, and he deserves to go into next season with every reason to believe that he will continue to be our center.  Our GM and offensive coaches "failed us" in that they didn't properly evaluate Harrison, or at least didn't give him a chance.

Well, he got that chance after the guy they paid millions of dollars to come out of retirement failed at center, and then only because he got injured, was pulled out from the lineup and went back to Harrison.  Harrison then showed stability and competence, and I would like our GM and coaches to admit they made a mistake.

We could have spent money better in just getting a player like Suggs on our team, just as an example.  In any case, let's not put all the blame on our lousy season this year on the players; the GM and perhaps the offensive line coach deserves some of the blame in not evaluating our talent properly.

let's not put harrison in canton just yet.  yes he's playing much better than kalil and the jets were wrong to bring in a guy from retirement.  harrison did well enough last season to get a shot at starting.  i think this is mainly on gase because he wanted someone who knows how the blocking schemes were supposed to go.  i guess kalil forgot those assignments and couldn't get the oline to block right.  right now i'd say he is the least of the jet oline issues going into the draft.  they need a tackle and a guard before they need a center.

[Sarge4Tide]

59 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Hopefully we never see Ryan Kalil in  NY  again. 

Fixed