Gregg Wililams deserves all of the credit

[BallinPB]

Gase deserves no credit for our mediocre 6-9 records.  His "offense" is ranked 28th in points for and dead last in yards.  You can give me the we have no offensive line or lack of playmakers excuse.  That would be valid if were say 20th in the league.  For someone whose mentality is offense to once again have one of his teams ranked so low is not an anomaly.  Gase is consistent with all of his teams in this regard.

Gregg Williams who took over this defense and had his linebacking core decimated by injuries, trotting out CB's who wouldn't start on other teams in this league has this defense ranked 19th in points for and 7th in yards allowed.  His defense is the sole reason we are competitive in most of these games.  

Williams should be the head coach of this team and Gase should be shown the door.  No doubt in my mind that we will have a better offense with a different offensive coordinator because there is no where to go but up.  

I apologize for starting another thread but the Gase praise on this board is making me sick.  

[Losmeister]

So...   Sam Darnolds 11 td/ 2 int   ratio has nothing to do with us winning a few?

[TheClashFan]

C'mon, man! I'm no Gase fan (really, I don't like the guy), but he inherited an awful OL and very thin receiving corps that was quickly devastated by injuries.  His playcalling was very rigid early on but did loosen up as the season progressed. 

I won't shed a tear if he's fired in the offseason, but I think he deserves a second year with a beefed up OL and receiving corps. And I hope Williams is back too, though he'll likely jump at a HC job if he can get one.

 

[The Crusher]

The all or nothingness of this board is truly magnificent. 

[Warfish]

17 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

So...   Sam Darnolds 11 td/ 2 int   ratio has nothing to do with us winning a few?

We're materially below league average in points scored.  One of the worst, in fact, in scoring and yards and most other offensive metrics.  No spin required, they are what they are.

We're slightly above league average in points allowed.  And we're tied for 2nd most TD's scored by a Defense (2).

Judge for yourself which unit deserves "credit", such that it is, for our record.  

Given the complete lack of healthy or effective talent on Defense beyond Adams, I would certainly agree Williams deserves alot of credit for being 14th in points allowed, especially given the materially below-average yards and scoring of our offense (short ineffective drives = harder on your Defense).

[JetsFanatic]

23 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Gase deserves no credit for our mediocre 6-9 records.  His "offense" is ranked 28th in points for and dead last in yards.  You can give me the we have no offensive line or lack of playmakers excuse.  That would be valid if were say 20th in the league.  For someone whose mentality is offense to once again have one of his teams ranked so low is not an anomaly.  Gase is consistent with all of his teams in this regard.

Gregg Williams who took over this defense and had his linebacking core decimated by injuries, trotting out CB's who wouldn't start on other teams in this league has this defense ranked 19th in points for and 7th in yards allowed.  His defense is the sole reason we are competitive in most of these games.  

Williams should be the head coach of this team and Gase should be shown the door.  No doubt in my mind that we will have a better offense with a different offensive coordinator because there is no where to go but up.  

I apologize for starting another thread but the Gase praise on this board is making me sick.  

If they lose it's on Gase and if they win he gets no credit. LOL!!

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

The all or nothingness of this board is truly magnificent. 

53 players on a roster 20 something coaches but it’s 1 person that is responsible for anything good or bad.  

[Apache 51]

No he doesn't. Geebus.

[Beerfish]

The op is correct.

OMG how is Gase supposed to field a team with Falk at QB!

Meanwhile Williams has no CBs, his ILB talent is injured and he is making UDFA and 6th rounders excellent players on the Dline.

Williams took a unit with suspect talent and injures and has made it competent to good.

Gase took a unit with suspect talent and injuries and made it into the worst unit in the league.

[Losmeister]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We're materially below league average in points scored.  One of the worst, in fact, in scoring and yards and most other offensive metrics.  No spin required, they are what they are.

We're slightly above league average in points allowed.  And we're tied for 2nd most TD's scored by a Defense (2).

Judge for yourself which unit deserves "credit", such that it is, for our record.  

Given the complete lack of healthy or effective talent on Defense beyond Adams, I would certainly agree Williams deserves alot of credit for being 14th in points allowed, especially given the materially below-average yards and scoring of our offense (short ineffective drives = harder on your Defense).

my point was only that helping the turnover ratio on the O side helped/deserves some credit as well. YOu'll notice i didnt say that "Sam played well" 

otherwise yeah GW deserves a ton of credit.

Consider the thread title....who deserves ALL OF THE CREDIT. 

[nycdan]

The article was clearly trash.  But let's look at the stats a bit.  I'm willing to call the Luke Falk experiment an outlier and see how things look if we remove it from the stats.  The Jets have scored 263 points in 15 games for a 17.53 PPG avg.  That's 28th in the league.  If we remove the 23 total points they scored in weeks 2, 3 and 4, we get 240 points in 12 games for a 20 PPG avg.  That would put us at 24th in the league, just ahead of OAK and behind BUF, both playoff teams.  Not great, not even good, but not complete trash.

Where the Jets were really awful this year was converting 1st downs.  Even with Sam back in, they just weren't good at it compared to the league as a whole.  Not sure how much of that is the OL, but I think the inconsistency of the running game, or the play-calling, had a big part in that.  Upgrading 2 or 3 of the OL positions next season and getting our TEs back healthy should go a long way to helping out with that.

[T0mShane]

Williams’ defense got roached by Josh Allen, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Gardner Minshew, and Andy Dalton. 

[The Crusher]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Williams’ defense got roached by Josh Allen, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Gardner Minshew, and Andy Dalton. 

Mono

[BallinPB]

34 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

So...   Sam Darnolds 11 td/ 2 int   ratio has nothing to do with us winning a few?

I love the guy and still think he will succeed but he’s playing is mediocre all year and very slightly above average that last few weeks.  He’s not winning us games just getting out ahead early enough for the defense to try to hold off for the remaining 2-3 quarters.  I blame that on Gase. 

 I’m watching Daniel freaking Jones throw for 5TDs and 350 yds.  Are the Giants skill position and OL that much better than ours?  
 

Every week I see a stat line of 1 or 2 TDS and maybe an INT every other week for Sam.  Averaging roughly 225 yds per game. (Stat is off the top of the head).  He has to play better.  Sam has never had a game Jones had yesterday in his career.  I’m still waiting for it.  

[SAR I]

49 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Gase deserves no credit for our mediocre 6-9 records. 

Shut the f—- up. 

SAR I

[Jetster]

Gregg Williams defense was spanked by both Ryan Fitzpatrick & Andy Dalton. Both of those guys dominated in TOP, converting on 3rd downs & effectively putting our 31st ranked offensive line in pass protect, COME BACK MODE. 

First of all, the one place you don't want an offensive line that can't pass protect is in must pass situations. 

Jets score 1st in Miami 7-0. Ficken misses FG. In the 2nd quarter here are the Dolphins drives against our defense, 7/61-TD, 12/84-TD, 7/56-TD, so in the 2nd quarter Fitz & Fins offense scored 3TDs, ran 26 plays, and led 21-12. We couldn't run for sh*t so Sam was constantly under pressure behind the sticks in 3rd & longs. 

In Cincy 1st half Dalton had drives of 7/62-TD, 9/39-FG, 9/91-TD & they only punted once. Score at half 17-3. Here we go again. On the road, Having to throw, behind our Oline is bad juju. 

The 2 losses to winless teams were a complete team loss but the defense was terrible in the 1st half of both losses. Being down ON THE ROAD vs teams trying to get their 1st win is a bad place to be if you have zero running game + the 31st ranked Oline in the league. 

And there you go. These 2 losses kept us out of contention but you have have blame the defense 1st giving up long consecutive drives while the offense twiddled their thumbs on the sideline, and deficits that are difficult to overcome with a terrible Oline. Team losses, not just offense to blame. 

 

[SAR I]

28 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The all or nothingness of this board is truly magnificent. 

I’m rich as f—k. 

SAR I

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, BallinPB said:

Gase deserves no credit for our mediocre 6-9 records.  His "offense" is ranked 28th in points for and dead last in yards.  You can give me the we have no offensive line or lack of playmakers excuse.  That would be valid if were say 20th in the league.  For someone whose mentality is offense to once again have one of his teams ranked so low is not an anomaly.  Gase is consistent with all of his teams in this regard.

Gregg Williams who took over this defense and had his linebacking core decimated by injuries, trotting out CB's who wouldn't start on other teams in this league has this defense ranked 19th in points for and 7th in yards allowed.  His defense is the sole reason we are competitive in most of these games.  

Williams should be the head coach of this team and Gase should be shown the door.  No doubt in my mind that we will have a better offense with a different offensive coordinator because there is no where to go but up.  

I apologize for starting another thread but the Gase praise on this board is making me sick.  

Its a QB driven league. The offense goes as the QB goes...

[Losmeister]

5 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

I love the guy and still think he will succeed but he’s playing is mediocre all year and very slightly above average that last few weeks.  He’s not winning us games just getting out ahead early enough for the defense to try to hold off for the remaining 2-3 quarters.  I blame that on Gase. 

 I’m watching Daniel freaking Jones throw for 5TDs and 350 yds.  Are the Giants skill position and OL that much better than ours?  
 

Every week I see a stat line of 1 or 2 TDS and maybe an INT every other week for Sam.  Averaging roughly 225 yds per game. (Stat is off the top of the head).  He has to play better.  Sam has never had a game Jones had yesterday in his career.  I’m still waiting for it.  

I agree on all of the above. Especially the bold.

But cutting down on INTs is HELPFUL. Nothing less, nothing more. 

[JTJet]

Anybody that thinks Williams should be the head coach clearly has not paid attention to his head coaching career.

Gase 29-35 (.453 Winning %)

1 Postseason appearance. 

Williams 22-34 (.393 Winning %)

0 Postseason appearances. 

You dont get to be critical of Gase's career without being equally critical of Williams.

I love him as our DC, but no way as our head coach. The guy has jumped between 10-11 teams at roles even lower than coordinator at times. There is a WAY longer track record of Gregg Williams not succeeding than there is of Gase. 

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Anybody that thinks Williams should be the head coach clearly has not paid attention to his head coaching career.

Gase 29-35 (.453 Winning %)

1 Postseason appearance. 

Williams 22-34 (.393 Winning %)

0 Postseason appearances. 

You dont get to be critical of Gase's career without being equally critical of Williams.

I love him as our DC, but no way as our head coach. The guy has jumped between 10-11 teams at roles even lower than coordinator at times. There is a WAY longer track record of Gregg Williams not succeeding than there is of Gase. 

mentioned this before myself....  crickets

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, BallinPB said:

I apologize for starting another thread but the Gase praise on this board is making me sick

So you decided we needed the rare “Gase Sucks” thread

[BallinPB]

1 minute ago, JTJet said:

Anybody that thinks Williams should be the head coach clearly has not paid attention to his head coaching career.

Gase 29-35 (.453 Winning %)

1 Postseason appearance. 

Williams 22-34 (.393 Winning %)

0 Postseason appearances. 

You dont get to be critical of Gase's career without being equally critical of Williams.

I love him as our DC, but no way as our head coach. The guy has jumped between 10-11 teams at roles even lower than coordinator at times. There is a WAY longer track record of Gregg Williams not succeeding than there is of Gase. 

Maybe I overreacted saying head coach however I stand by saying that we only get to our record now if Gregg Willams is part of the team.  If you take away Gase from the team and put in any other mediocre coach I believe u would have the same amount of wins.  That is only my opinion.  

[BallinPB]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

So you decided we needed the rare “Gase Sucks” thread

Clearly sometimes I get riled up and make off the cusp Gase sucks threads on Christmas Eve.  Let me be me.  

[14 in Green]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So you decided we needed the rare “Gase Sucks” thread

Kind of a weird time for one isn’t it?

You would think most Jet fans would be pretty happy after the last few weeks, but apparently not.

[The Crusher]

27 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I’m rich as f—k. 

SAR I

Your a good Dad . 

[JTJet]

37 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

mentioned this before myself....  crickets

Did some more digging might find this interesting too 

37 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Maybe I overreacted saying head coach however I stand by saying that we only get to our record now if Gregg Willams is part of the team.  If you take away Gase from the team and put in any other mediocre coach I believe u would have the same amount of wins.  That is only my opinion.  

So maybe this will get some people thinking as well, you can argue rosters up and down, circumstances left and right, but as far as effect on a team, Gase has the edge. 

Taking both guys entire careers into account as positional coaches and above, Gase still crushes Williams. 

Gase 93-83 (Career .528 Winning %)

- 11 Seasons / 5 Playoff Appearances / 1 SB

Williams 175-192 (Career .477 Winning %) 

- 23 Seasons  / 7 Playoff Appearences / 1 SB 

Gase has the same accomplishments that Williams has, and he did it in half the time. 

And for the tired "Gase had Peyton for 3 years and won a SB" argument, Williams had Brees for 3 years and also won a SB so that's a wash. 

Gase has done better in a shorter career. There isnt really any arguing that. 

Let me say that again, 

Gase has a career winning percentage as an NFL level coach above .500 (.528)

Williams has a career winning percentage as an NFL level coach below .500 (.477) 

[Losmeister]

52 minutes ago, Jetster said:

you have have blame the defense 1st giving up long consecutive drives while the offense twiddled their thumbs on the sideline,

and give the O their share of blame for NOT DRIVING THE BALL AND SCORING

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Gase has a career winning percentage as an NFL level coach above .500 (.528)

Williams has a career winning percentage as an NFL level coach below .500 (.477) 

Gase-Out crowd determines Gase is a porven failure....

Like we have a list of winning coaches lining up to coach the Jets.

Not a gase endorsement...    but....       he is on Sams side and that cant hurt...   

[JTJet]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

Gase-Out crowd determines Gase is a porven failure....

Like we have a list of winning coaches lining up to coach the Jets.

Not a gase endorsement...    but....       he is on Sams side and that cant hurt...   

I guess I come from the angle that, Gase is getting dragged for such a small sample size...

...yet the same people want to praise Williams who has TWICE the sample size, but historically worse results. 

I'm not endorsing Gase either, but that hurts my logical thinking brain lol. 

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

We're materially below league average in points scored.  One of the worst, in fact, in scoring and yards and most other offensive metrics.  No spin required, they are what they are.

We're slightly above league average in points allowed.  And we're tied for 2nd most TD's scored by a Defense (2).

Judge for yourself which unit deserves "credit", such that it is, for our record.  

Given the complete lack of healthy or effective talent on Defense beyond Adams, I would certainly agree Williams deserves alot of credit for being 14th in points allowed, especially given the materially below-average yards and scoring of our offense (short ineffective drives = harder on your Defense).

If you're going to compare offense numbers league wide to ours then you MUST take into consideration that for 3-4 weeks (memory fails me  ) we had a PSQB!  So IMHO you pure numbers guys are cherry picking possibly because you dislike Gase.   

None the less I agree that Williams has been OUTSTANDING.  

[Jetster]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

and give the O their share of blame for NOT DRIVING THE BALL AND SCORING

Oh, I agree but my point was to look at how our defense couldn't get off the damn field in those 2 games in the 1st half.

Do you know how you beat winless teams? You step on their neck early. 2 teams, both with no wins, PLAYING AT HOME. We let both offenses dominate both TOP & on the scoreboard, keeping these focused & hungry and their fans into it sensing there is a chance.

We're not a very good team but we played pretty damn good at home this year. 

[fullblast]

Can anyone pull up our offensive stats with Darnold in the lineup? I feel like those 3 Falk games will really skew the numbers.

[peebag]

How did this team look without Darnold in the lineup?

' nuff said.

[SummerofSam14]

Nobody deserves credit. The team is probably going 6-10 against the easiest schedule I can remember!