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Would you support a “blow it up” offseason


SummerofSam14
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15 hours ago, SummerofSam14 said:

If Douglas after a year of evaluating this roster determines that it cannot be fixed during Darnolds rookie contract in a way that puts the organization in a good spot long term would you have any issues with a Miami Dolphins offseason?

1) Don’t re-sign anyone

2) Don’t sign anyone good

3) Trade Jamal Adams for 2020-2021 draft capital?

The idea would be to try to stockpile young talent in the draft, and evaluate Sam Darnold. After year 3 if he’s the guy he should be able to elevate a bad roster to mediocrity. If he can’t the Jets could be in position for Trevor Lawrence.

Also...start fresh in 2021 without Gase. 

I whole-heartedly disagree with the the proposed scenario of "blowing it up" in the Miami Dolphins sense.  

This team actually has some good talent and depth for the first time in years.  We are 5-2 in the last 7 games and have a defense in the top 10 - all with a bunch of no names at CB, LB, T, G, C, TE and some decent players at RB, WR, DL - and an All-Pro at SS.

We can discuss specific offseason plans for the next few months but overall, add in a few stars at premium positions (LT, Pass Rusher, CB, maybe WR) and add a few more consistent NFL starters (RT,G,C,WR) and this team can compete deep into the playoffs.  

As long as we have Sam Darnold and he continues to improve at a normal rate we should be competitive for the next decade.  Now that we have a franchise QB, we should never be tanking for higher picks/blowing it all up.  On a mediocre team and Sam only in his 2nd year we are on the verge of 8-8.  One good offseason next year and we can make the playoffs.  Two good offseasons in a row and we should be competing with the upper echelon of the AFC.

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If we solidify the O-line, grab a #1 receiver in the draft (1st round - Lamb?), 2 O-linemen the next three pics, a corner - we will absolutely compete for a playoff spot. It's foolish to think otherwise when 13 starters were on IR - QB was sick half of the season and we will still most likely have 7 wins. Give Sam time and this team is dangerous if we give him another WR weapon and Herndon. CJ back and possibly Williamson, who, by the way, was better than Demario - even though every raves about him now that he's gone, will make a great LB core with the younger guys. Grab a pass rusher in FA and we will be solid next year. Our depth will be a lot of guys that are starting now and gaining valuable experience.

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Offensive Line.  It's always been about the Offensive Line.

I have little doubt in my mind that Sam will excel behind an NFL worthy OL.  He is currently under duress on most of his drop backs, and he has zero running game to balance things out and keep defenses honest.

Add a couple of legitimate offensive weapons and cornerbacks as well, and this team can certainly start to compete with the better teams in the NFL.

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If they were going to do this they would have traded Quinnen and perhaps Adams at the trade deadline.
As for blowing it up we we are already blown up essentially as the team has so little talent in many of the key positions.

Haha. My first thought was “it’s already kind of blown up isn’t it?”

As far as the trades mentioned go, it could very easily be done this coming offseason without too much issue if there were just a few details that couldn’t be ironed out before the deadline.

It also might be that JD likes Q enough to think him part of a legitimate blow it up rebuild. He’s really young and raw on top of being locked up for essentially 4 more seasons.


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1 hour ago, PepPep said:

I'm sorry but this is pretty unrealistic and there are some perplexing roster moves. 

So the Jets get Dupree and Judon, two of the best young pass rushers to hit FA? They get both? They get two of the top young OTs to hit FA? again, both of them? And they get one of the top CBs in FA? While also retaining Poole and Robby? 

Are there any cap ramifications for cutting H.Anderson? He has a big contract. 

How do you cut Williamson and not Roberts? Roberts is absolutely awful and will free up 6mil with zero cap hit. At least Williamson gives you a dangerous pair with Mosley and gives you some flexibility when it comes to letting Hewitt walk as a FA. 

The Jets draft Lamb, who you assume will be there at 10 (far from a given) but a Franchise LT will not be there? I guess it depends on what you view as a 'Franchise LT'...is it anyone other than A.Thomas? Because I think there are easily at least 4 potential Pro Bowl OTs (maybe they end up starting as LT maybe RTs in the NFL) in this draft, who are also potentially plug and play OTs in year one. A.Thomas, Wirfs, Wills, A.Jackson, Leatherwood. And a handful of other ones that will require some additional development. 

 

With all due respect, it was not intended to be a prediction and I do not claim to be a psychic.  I am just stating what I wish to happen and I do not believe by any means is it a moonshot.

As for grabbing the top FA OTs, yes those two (Conklin and Costanzo) are the top two OTs - but there's also Bryan Beluga and DJ Humphries who are not far behind - why cant we get two of the four?

As for CB, I think Bradburry is about the 4th best available, with Marcus Peters, Byron Jones and Chris Harris rated better.  

As for OLB/EDGE, equal and perhaps better than Dupree and Judon are Jadeveon Clowney, Shaq Barrett, Dante Fowler Jr, Kyle Van Noy and Whitney Mercilus - why cant we get 2 of the 7?

As for keeping Willimason, he and CJ will count $26M against the cap next year - IMO that is poor utilization of capital - too much $ tied up in a non-premium position..  The CAP is projected to rise to about $200M  more than 10% invested in ILB SMH.   CB, EDGE and OT are where we need to allocate CAP $$$.   Obviously CJ is much more talented than Williamson and I believe they pose an equal risk as far as health goes, so you keep Mosely and trade or cut Williamson.  I actually wud prefer to pair someone with CJ who is faster than a guy coming off an ACL who wasn't fast to begin with.  Cashman and Burgess both flashed a lot of potential this year - imagine pairing either of them with CJ?  Avery may in fact be very tradable since 2020 is the final year of his contract @ $8.5M.   

I want to keep Roberts for depth, you cannot assume Bless Austin will be healthy, and we need to groom the draft pick, rarely is a 3rd rnd CB plug n play.  I feel that Roberts is way better than Maulet, Canady or Hairston (tho thats not saying much).  Again keep in mind the goal of making the playoffs next year and having a CB with elite speed who knows the defensive schemes will prove beneficial.  If we are short on CAP $  then fine, cut Roberts and replace him with one of the three incumbents or a UFA.

When it comes to protecting Sam, I feel its foolish to hope for potential in what wud be the 3rd or 4th best OT.  IMO only Thomas and Wirfs are "sure things" and all the mocks have them going in the top 10.  I dont want to take an OT at 10-15 (even losing on Sunday most likely does not get us in the top 10) who will not be ready to play effectively.  Additionally after what Sam has been through the last two years - do you want anything but a sure thing at the Tackle spots - we dont have the luxury of drafting an OT who will take a season or so to learn - you do that and next year is just another rebuilding year that postpones Sam's development and then we go into the final year of Sam's contract still not knowing....  Also for a QB like Sam, I feel the OTs are the most important OL as they can seal the edges as to allow Sam to roll out when pressure comes up the middle.

 

As of this moment - we currently have $53M in cap space for 2020, if we can save another $30M by cutting/trading the said players we shud have enough $ to do what I laid out.

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Whether or not we support a particular move it doesn't matter. The Johnson's will continue to listen to the same people they listen to and do what they want to do. That's why the Jets suck. Ownership sucks. Our only hope is they get lucky and catch lightening in the bottle so to speak. You know, when a perennial mess has a great 3 to 4 years window and then goes back to being a mess. Example: 1999 St. Louis Rams owned by Georgia Frontiere. 

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If Sam doesnt get mono and if CJ doesnt get hurt, this is a mediocre team already - should have been an 8/9 win team with this roster.  I'll even go as far as saying if we don't sign Kahlil that gives us another win right there.  
If we draft competently and spend wisely we should contend for the playoffs next year, meaning our goal if we add the right pieces is 10 wins considering the schedule.
Blowing it up would mean only one thing - giving up on Darnold.  You cannot develop a QB with a sandlot caliber OL and below average weapons.   
Hopefully Douglas understands how to draft and how to value players.  We cannot select an OT at #10 (assuming thats where we end up picking) unless that OL is a franchise LT - which will not be available - so the value pick will most likely be a WR.
 
My free agent targets:
 
OT Anthony Costanzo
OT Jack Conklin
OLB Matthew Judon
OLB Bud Dupree
CB James Bradburry
 
Must re-sign Robby, Poole and Lewis
Cut Williamson, Winters, Henry Anderson, McClendon, and obviously Trumaine Johnson.
 
Roster:
 
QB Darnold
QB Draft Pick (4th or 5th round, serves as future insurance for Darnold)  Jordan Love?
RB Bell (untradable)
RB Powell  (showed enough to give him one more year)
RB Josh Adams
TE  Griffin
TE  Herndon
TE  Wesco
WR Lamb
WR Robby
WR Crowder
WR Draft Pick
LT Conklin
G Lewis
C Harrison
G Draft Pick
RT Costanzo
DE Phillips
NT Fatukasi
DE Williams
OLB Dupree
ILB CJ
ILB Cashman/Burgess
OLB Judon
CB Austin
S Maye
S Adams
CB Bradburry
CB Poole
CB Roberts
CB Draft Pick
 
Draft
Rnd 1  WR
Rnd 2 OG
Rnd 3 CB
Rnd 3 C
Rnd 4 WR/KR
Rnd 5 QB
Rnd 6  RB

Not too bad. I have some differences In Personnel choices in FA and draft but if this were to take place exactly as you wrote it I would not be terribly disappointed.

First we don’t have a sixth TD pick I believe and I thought Lewis cost us a 7th as well. That gives us 6 picks with two in the 3rd. I’m on bike at the gym so I can’t check right now. I’m fairly confident that’s what it is.

The idea that we can’t take a OT at 10 if the first tier of Wills and Thomas are gone is not accurate to me. I’m all for getting a stout #1 WR but I don’t love the Alabama boys as much as the general consensus. Let the other teams fawn over them and scoop up Austin Jackson,Wirfs, or Leatherwood. They might be had a bit later in the RD so we could entertain the trade down if Juedy or Lamb are sitting there. Do not buy!!! Trade!

I believe LT to be the absolute most important guy to grab. All mentioned are capable of being that guy who will lock it down for a decade.


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I would not support that. You don't get rid of young talented players in hopes to throw darts and see if you can hit on slightly younger guys. We should be able to fix our offensive line this off-season and hopefully patch up cb. That is all we really need to compete assuming darnold is who we want him to be.

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16 hours ago, SummerofSam14 said:

If Douglas after a year of evaluating this roster determines that it cannot be fixed during Darnolds rookie contract in a way that puts the organization in a good spot long term would you have any issues with a Miami Dolphins offseason?

1) Don’t re-sign anyone

2) Don’t sign anyone good

3) Trade Jamal Adams for 2020-2021 draft capital?

The idea would be to try to stockpile young talent in the draft, and evaluate Sam Darnold. After year 3 if he’s the guy he should be able to elevate a bad roster to mediocrity. If he can’t the Jets could be in position for Trevor Lawrence.

Also...start fresh in 2021 without Gase. 

I think we should not draft anyone good either.  That way we'll have higher picks in 2021!

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1 hour ago, PepPep said:

I'm sorry but this is pretty unrealistic and there are some perplexing roster moves. 

So the Jets get Dupree and Judon, two of the best young pass rushers to hit FA? They get both? They get two of the top young OTs to hit FA? again, both of them? And they get one of the top CBs in FA? While also retaining Poole and Robby? 

Are there any cap ramifications for cutting H.Anderson? He has a big contract. 

How do you cut Williamson and not Roberts? Roberts is absolutely awful and will free up 6mil with zero cap hit. At least Williamson gives you a dangerous pair with Mosley and gives you some flexibility when it comes to letting Hewitt walk as a FA. 

The Jets draft Lamb, who you assume will be there at 10 (far from a given) but a Franchise LT will not be there? I guess it depends on what you view as a 'Franchise LT'...is it anyone other than A.Thomas? Because I think there are easily at least 4 potential Pro Bowl OTs (maybe they end up starting as LT maybe RTs in the NFL) in this draft, who are also potentially plug and play OTs in year one. A.Thomas, Wirfs, Wills, A.Jackson, Leatherwood. And a handful of other ones that will require some additional development. 

 

OK, shud have done more due diligence, we are screwed as far as Anderson and Enuwa (unless Enuwa retires) and also of course Johnson - but there's really no choice as far as Johnson goes.  However cutting Williamson, Roberts, Johnson and Winters will save us $20M so that gives us $73M to play with, maybe we can restructure Anderson and Crowder to save a few more million.  I still say #1 priority is OT and #2 is Edge, if we fill those two (well four players) needs in FA, draft a plug in Guard, an elite WR (and yes either Lamb or Jeudy shud be available when we pick, otherwise I love the kid from Colorado (Lavisk Shenault) or even Tee Higgins from Clemson - neither of whom I wud mind reaching for) we should be a playoff team in 2020.

 

Looking at the draft - 3 of the top 10 should be QBs (Burrow, Tua and Herbert), 2 of the the top 10 should be DL/Edge, (Chase Young and AJ Epenesa), 2 shud be OTs  (Wirfs and Thomas), Mix in Lamb or Jeudy and that shut down CB Okudah, ur up to 9 already.  You have 4 teams in the top ten who need QBs:  Bengals, Chargers, Dolphins and Jaguars -thats why I say 3 will go in the top ten and dont discount the possibility of the Raiders trading up into the top ten to grab a QB (I've read that Gruden loves Herbert).  Could it even be a bizarre outcome where Fromm or Eason skyrocket into the top 10?

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16 hours ago, SummerofSam14 said:

If Douglas after a year of evaluating this roster determines that it cannot be fixed during Darnolds rookie contract in a way that puts the organization in a good spot long term would you have any issues with a Miami Dolphins offseason?

1) Don’t re-sign anyone

2) Don’t sign anyone good

3) Trade Jamal Adams for 2020-2021 draft capital?

The idea would be to try to stockpile young talent in the draft, and evaluate Sam Darnold. After year 3 if he’s the guy he should be able to elevate a bad roster to mediocrity. If he can’t the Jets could be in position for Trevor Lawrence.

Also...start fresh in 2021 without Gase. 

NO and ummm Hell No.   We have a young team with a few pieces of talent that don't cost much with Sam, Jamaal, marcus maye and Quinnen.. Not to mention Phillips and Fatukasi on the DL and a solid young CB in Austin.  great veteran talent in Anderson Mosely and Williamson and not one of them over 28...... Not to mention Bell on offense.   

Resign Poole, Jenkins and Anderson. and build around all that.

Easier to build on what we have then to try and start from scratch...

OL is priority #1

Resigning our guys in Priority #2A

Edge Rusher is priority #2B

 

With 8 draft picks and the cap space we have this can be done.  and guess what if it fails we can do the rebuild in the 2020 off-season and move on from Gase.   I know people hate Gase and I am far from a fan of his but for a team to face the adversity we did this year and be 1-7 and finish how we are, says something about what the locker room thinks of Gase.   Cause at 1-7 I was convinced with him at the helm we wouldn't win more than 3 games.  Thought for sure the team would check out. So lets see what happens with filling the holes we have now and not create more.  Cause quite honestly a rebuild will start in the same spot we are at now...... Offensive Line

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I agree with there's nothing to blow up

Our last genius GM failed to rebuild our last blow up so we're still stuck in the rebuilding stage.....We better hope Sam is the guy and Joe D is a good GM. if they're both part of our future then we can get this thing turned around in about 2 offseasons...to become true contenders...

If Joe D or more importantly Sam are not apart of our future then God help us because we will suck for the better part of this coming decade 

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Darnold is entering the third year of his rookie deal. "Blowing it up" as described by the OP is the equivalent of giving up on him. You're basically sabotaging him at the critical time when we need to decide if he's "the guy." 

Not to mention Gase wouldn't go along with that and obviously we aren't firing him.

We should be trying to improve and give Darnold the best chance to succeed so we know what we have in him which will dictate what our long term plan is.

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Just a silly post and only supported by those with draft pick lust.  There are pieces in place (e.g., DL, LB, S, TE), depth from unknowns who played well and a great defensive coordinator.  The future of this team rests solely on Douglas's ability to evaluate talent.  Period.  He bombed on Kalil but did well in bringing in Lewis, Compton and Thomas.  He has enough cap space and draft picks to make this team better.

Three OL, CB, WR (albeit not a #1) and OLB can be found IF Douglas knows what he's doing.  We'll know soon enough. 

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21 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Darnold is entering the third year of his rookie deal. "Blowing it up" as described by the OP is the equivalent of giving up on him. You're basically sabotaging him at the critical time when we need to decide if he's "the guy." 

Not to mention Gase wouldn't go along with that and obviously we aren't firing him.

We should be trying to improve and give Darnold the best chance to succeed so we know what we have in him which will dictate what our long term plan is.

Not really. Is getting rid of Bell and Anderson really going to destroy Darnold if he truly is the real deal? Keep in mind he’s getting back Herndon, the Jets will bring in a WR to replace Anderson (probably a couple), and Douglas will likely take the added draft capital to improve the oline. 

 

 

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