k-met57 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 I dont think i am the only one who doesn’t want to see him in green and white again. do i have this right that if we cut him before his salary is guaranteed for next year, we have to eat 12m (3yr*4m in bonus money) for 2020...and thats it? No implications beyond 2020? seems like the only logical move if so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Slick Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Cut that bum no matter what the cost. He's just plain stealing. Note to JD; - no more signing 'big' name' FA's, 30-32 yrs old, that are looking for their final contract. They will just retire. - do not let FA's use the Jets as a bargaining tool, like the Vikings LB and Cousins. 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JetsFanatic Posted December 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, k-met57 said: I dont think i am the only one who doesn’t want to see him in green and white again. do i have this right that if we cut him before his salary is guaranteed for next year, we have to eat 12m (3yr*4m in bonus money) for 2020...and thats it? No implications beyond 2020? seems like the only logical move if so. This has to be the worst contract of the Mac era. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 28, 2019 Author Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 minute ago, JetsFanatic said: This has to be the worst contract of the Mac era. Prob second worst ever for us after Neil O’Donnell 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 I ******* hate Trumaine Johnson. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Wait. Do we really have to pay this guy $12mm next year?3rd year of a deal like this should have an easier out than that. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app24:25:31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Another lovely parting gift from Baby Huey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 If we're eating his money, may as well keep him unless we get cap savings. He sucks, granted, but he can still be depth at CB for sunk cost anyway. Cut him, eat $12 mil, then (inevitably) spend ANOTHER $12 mil on another CB? No thanks, all aessts for the offense, the Defense can have Tru and lump it for a one more year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 He's here one more year. Is what it is. We'll have plenty of money, so it's not that problematic. Same deal with Leveon Bell. Winters and Williamson are probably done here. Daryl Roberts too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 21 minutes ago, TeddEY said: He's here one more year. Is what it is. We'll have plenty of money, so it's not that problematic. Same deal with Leveon Bell. Winters and Williamson are probably done here. Daryl Roberts too. not sure why. can you explain? my understanding is that his base salary of 11m gets guaranteed in march, he is then due 4m in bonus money for next year for a total of 15m in cap money. the following year we would still owe him 8m to go away (because his bonus is prorated at 4m per year for 2 years). so options are: 2020 - pay him 15 2021 - pay 8 to go away or 2020 - pay 12 to go away what am i missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 52 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Wait. Do we really have to pay this guy $12mm next year? 3rd year of a deal like this should have an easier out than that. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 24:25:31 high profile FA signs with a team thats is completely stripped of talent and going into a rebuild....those deals are usually the bad ones. The mosley deal is pretty bad too i am sure, he wouldnt leave baltimore otherwise (and why would he). I do think mosley will be worth it if healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 18 hours ago, JetsFanatic said: This has to be the worst contract of the Mac era. Yep. It's pretty staggering the bad contracts he signed. Trumaine: 5 yrs, $72.5M w/$34M in guarantees Revis: 5 yrs, $70.1M w/$39M in guarantees Enunwa: 4 yrs, $36M w/$20.5M in guarantees Spencer Long: 4 yrs, $27.4M w/$6M in guarantees Wilkerson: 5 yrs, $86M w/$37M in guarantees Skrine: 4 yrs, $25M w/$13M in guarantees Harris: 3 yrs, $21.5M w/$15M in guarantees Cromartie: 4 yrs, $32M w/$7M in guarantees Carpenter: 4 yrs, $19.1M w/$5M in guarantees Kearse: 3 yrs, $13.5M w/$6.3M in guarantees Fitzpatrick: 1 yr, $12M fully guaranteed McCown (2x): 1 yr, $6M fully guaranteed; 1 yr, $10M w/$5M in guarantees Forte: 2 yrs, $$9M w/$6M in guarantees Marshall: 3 yrs, $26M w/$9M in guarantees Crowell: 3 yrs, $12M w/$4M in guarantees Gilchrist: 4 yrs, $22M w/$3.5M in guarantees Claiborne: 1 yr, $7M w/$6.9M in guarantees Winters: 4 yrs, $29M w?$15M in guarantees Mosley (5 yrs, $85M w/$43M in guarantees) won't be worth the contract we gave him regardless of how well he performs. You just don't pay an ILB anywhere close to what we gave him. The same is true for Bell (4 yrs, $52.5M w/$19M in guarantees) and the RB position. He also took on the latter 2 years of the Raider deal for Osemele (resulting in $10.2M in dead money). @Pac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: Yep. It's pretty staggering the bad contracts he signed. Trumaine: 5 yrs, $72.5M w/$34M in guarantees Revis: 5 yrs, $70.1M w/$39M in guarantees Enunwa: 4 yrs, $36M w/$20.5M in guarantees Spencer Long: 4 yrs, $27.4M w/$6M in guarantees Wilkerson: 5 yrs, $86M w/$37M in guarantees Skrine: 4 yrs, $25M w/$13M in guarantees Harris: 3 yrs, $21.5M w/$15M in guarantees Cromartie: 4 yrs, $32M w/$7M in guarantees Fitzpatrick: 1 yr, $12M fully guaranteed McCown (2x): 1 yr, $6M fully guaranteed; 1 yr, $10M w/$5M in guarantees Mosley: 5 yrs, $85M w/$43M in guarantees Forte: 2 yrs, $$9M w/$6M in guarantees Marshall: 3 yrs, $26M w/$9M in guarantees Crowell: 3 yrs, $12M w/$4M in guarantees Gilchrist: 4 yrs, $22M w/$3.5M in guarantees Winters: 4 yrs, $29M w?$15M in guarantees He also took on the latter 2 years of the Raider deal for Osemele (resulting in $10.2M in dead money). that ****er deserved to get fired on this list alone and probably overstayed his welcome when he was actually fired. literally every deal ended up being sh*t outside of mosley who is a TBD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Yep. It's pretty staggering the bad contracts he signed. Trumaine: 5 yrs, $72.5M w/$34M in guarantees Revis: 5 yrs, $70.1M w/$39M in guarantees Enunwa: 4 yrs, $36M w/$20.5M in guarantees Spencer Long: 4 yrs, $27.4M w/$6M in guarantees Wilkerson: 5 yrs, $86M w/$37M in guarantees Skrine: 4 yrs, $25M w/$13M in guarantees Harris: 3 yrs, $21.5M w/$15M in guarantees Cromartie: 4 yrs, $32M w/$7M in guarantees Fitzpatrick: 1 yr, $12M fully guaranteed McCown (2x): 1 yr, $6M fully guaranteed; 1 yr, $10M w/$5M in guarantees Forte: 2 yrs, $$9M w/$6M in guarantees Marshall: 3 yrs, $26M w/$9M in guarantees Crowell: 3 yrs, $12M w/$4M in guarantees Gilchrist: 4 yrs, $22M w/$3.5M in guarantees Winters: 4 yrs, $29M w?$15M in guarantees Mosley (5 yrs, $85M w/$43M in guarantees) won't be worth the contract we gave him regardless of how well he performs. You just don't pay an ILB anywhere close to what we gave him. The same is true for Bell (4 yrs, $52.5M w/$19M in guarantees) and the RB position. He also took on the latter 2 years of the Raider deal for Osemele (resulting in $10.2M in dead money). Without purposely trying to set the franchise back it's hard to imagine how you could be so bad. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, k-met57 said: not sure why. can you explain? my understanding is that his base salary of 11m gets guaranteed in march, he is then due 4m in bonus money for next year for a total of 15m in cap money. the following year we would still owe him 8m to go away (because his bonus is prorated at 4m per year for 2 years). so options are: 2020 - pay him 15 2021 - pay 8 to go away or 2020 - pay 12 to go away what am i missing? I'm just going by OTC, but first off, his contract isn't guaranteed, so you're not paying him. If you cut him, you're just responsible for the dead money on the prorated original signing bonus. Now, next year, if you keep him, you pay him 15M. If you cut him, due to dead money, you have 12M against the cap, so, it's a net savings of only 3M. The following year, we'd have 8M in dead money, but save 9M vs. paying him the 17M in a year. So, essentially, I'm saying that the Jets will likely keep him rather than saving 3M, but cut him the following year to save 9M. At this point, we're talking about sunken cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: Without purposely trying to set the franchise back it's hard to imagine how you could be so bad. This is what I have said for years. I'm not a big, "I could do better than the professional" guy, but it's easily documented that if you literally did nothing in FA, and just showed up to the draft with an ESPN Insider password, and took the top player on Mel Kiper's Big Board, the Jets would be a better football team today than based on what Macc did. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, k-met57 said: that ****er deserved to get fired on this list alone and probably overstayed his welcome when he was actually fired. literally every deal ended up being sh*t outside of mosley who is a TBD Mosley (5 yrs, $85M w/$43M in guarantees) won't be worth the contract we gave him regardless of how well he performs. You just don't pay an ILB anywhere close to what we gave him. The same is true for Bell (4 yrs, $52.5M w/$19M in guarantees) and the RB position. The only "good" contracts in the Macc era: Williamson: 3 yrs, $22.5M w/16M in guarantees Beachum: 3 yrs, $24M w/$12M in guarantees Brian Poole: 1 yr, $3M ($2M guaranteed) McLendon: 3 yrs, $10.5M w/$4M in guarantees (renegotiated in '19) Henry Anderson: 3 yrs, $25.2M w/17M in guarantees Crowder: 3 yrs, $28.5M w/17M in guarantees Copeland: 1 yr, $1.6M w/$100K in guarantees @Pac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Yep. It's pretty staggering the bad contracts he signed. Trumaine: 5 yrs, $72.5M w/$34M in guarantees Revis: 5 yrs, $70.1M w/$39M in guarantees Enunwa: 4 yrs, $36M w/$20.5M in guarantees Spencer Long: 4 yrs, $27.4M w/$6M in guarantees Wilkerson: 5 yrs, $86M w/$37M in guarantees Skrine: 4 yrs, $25M w/$13M in guarantees Harris: 3 yrs, $21.5M w/$15M in guarantees Cromartie: 4 yrs, $32M w/$7M in guarantees Carpenter: 4 yrs, $19.1M w/$5M in guarantees Kearse: 3 yrs, $13.5M w/$6.3M in guarantees Fitzpatrick: 1 yr, $12M fully guaranteed McCown (2x): 1 yr, $6M fully guaranteed; 1 yr, $10M w/$5M in guarantees Forte: 2 yrs, $$9M w/$6M in guarantees Marshall: 3 yrs, $26M w/$9M in guarantees Crowell: 3 yrs, $12M w/$4M in guarantees Gilchrist: 4 yrs, $22M w/$3.5M in guarantees Winters: 4 yrs, $29M w?$15M in guarantees Mosley (5 yrs, $85M w/$43M in guarantees) won't be worth the contract we gave him regardless of how well he performs. You just don't pay an ILB anywhere close to what we gave him. The same is true for Bell (4 yrs, $52.5M w/$19M in guarantees) and the RB position. He also took on the latter 2 years of the Raider deal for Osemele (resulting in $10.2M in dead money). FFS that’s bad 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, New York Mick said: FFS that’s bad It's debatable to say he was worse at acquiring FA's/signing contracts than he was at drafting. And he was by far the worst drafter in the NFL during his tenure. @Pac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, TeddEY said: This is what I have said for years. I'm not a big, "I could do better than the professional" guy, but it's easily documented that if you literally did nothing in FA, and just showed up to the draft with an ESPN Insider password, and took the top player on Mel Kiper's Big Board, the Jets would be a better football team today than based on what Macc did. @Paccagnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 19 hours ago, k-met57 said: I dont think i am the only one who doesn’t want to see him in green and white again. do i have this right that if we cut him before his salary is guaranteed for next year, we have to eat 12m (3yr*4m in bonus money) for 2020...and thats it? No implications beyond 2020? seems like the only logical move if so. 18 hours ago, Big_Slick said: Cut that bum no matter what the cost. He's just plain stealing. Note to JD; - no more signing 'big' name' FA's, 30-32 yrs old, that are looking for their final contract. They will just retire. - do not let FA's use the Jets as a bargaining tool, like the Vikings LB and Cousins. 18 hours ago, k-met57 said: Prob second worst ever for us after Neil O’Donnell 1 hour ago, Ghost said: I ******* hate Trumaine Johnson. 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: Wait. Do we really have to pay this guy $12mm next year? 3rd year of a deal like this should have an easier out than that. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 24:25:31 1 hour ago, dbatesman said: Another lovely parting gift from Baby Huey. 20 minutes ago, k-met57 said: that ****er deserved to get fired on this list alone and probably overstayed his welcome when he was actually fired. literally every deal ended up being sh*t outside of mosley who is a TBD 17 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said: Without purposely trying to set the franchise back it's hard to imagine how you could be so bad. 11 minutes ago, New York Mick said: FFS that’s bad @Pac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, TeddEY said: I'm just going by OTC, but first off, his contract isn't guaranteed, so you're not paying him. If you cut him, you're just responsible for the dead money on the prorated original signing bonus. Now, next year, if you keep him, you pay him 15M. If you cut him, due to dead money, you have 12M against the cap, so, it's a net savings of only 3M. The following year, we'd have 8M in dead money, but save 9M vs. paying him the 17M in a year. So, essentially, I'm saying that the Jets will likely keep him rather than saving 3M, but cut him the following year to save 9M. At this point, we're talking about sunken cost. But, if you look at the cost over two years, if you cut him, before March 20, his 2020 salary is not guaranteed. So either, we bite the bullet, release him before March 20 (when his $11M 2020 salary guarantees), save $3MM in 2020 cap ($12MM dead cap vs $15 to keep him) and have no cap hit past 2020. Or, if we pay him, he coutns $15MM agaisnt the 2020 cap and would be another $8MM cap hit if released in 21. By keeping him, he is eating up $23MM in cap across two years; as opposed to just taking the $12MM hit in 20 and no 2021 cap charge and be done with him. If it is me, I am opting for the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 18 hours ago, Big_Slick said: Cut that bum no matter what the cost. He's just plain stealing. Note to JD; - no more signing 'big' name' FA's, 30-32 yrs old, that are looking for their final contract. They will just retire. - do not let FA's use the Jets as a bargaining tool, like the Vikings LB and Cousins. You mean the playoff bound Vikings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lith said: But, if you look at the cost over two years, if you cut him, before March 20, his 2020 salary is not guaranteed. oO either, we bite the bullet, release him before March 20 (when his $11M 2020 salary guarantees), save $3MM in 2020 cap and have no cap hit past 2020. Or, if we pay him, he coutns $15MM agaisnt the 2020 cap and would be another $8MM cap hit in 21. By keeping him, he is eating up $23MM in cap across two years; as opposed to just taking the $12MM hit in 20 and no 2021 cap charge and be done with him. If it is me, I am opting for the latter. Absolutely. At this point. it's not a talent decision at all, but strictly a financial one. It's probably the easiest decision Douglass has to make this off season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: It's debatable to say he was worse at acquiring FA's/signing contracts than he was at drafting. And he was by far the worst drafter in the NFL during his tenure. @Pac I think one plays into the other though. Because he drafted so poorly he had no one to pay and had to spend the cap money somehow. Overpaying was the only way to spend the cap minimums. Very, very sad. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNuuFaaolaExperience Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 18 hours ago, k-met57 said: Prob second worst ever for us after Neil O’Donnell Neil O'Donnell was about to lead us to a playoff berth in Detroit but Parcells decided that Leon Johnson and Ray Lucas should be playing QB. The O'Donnell contract was bad but not even close to the TJ contract debacle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 As many FA's as we've signed on D (and a lot of them were big deals) I don't think Douglas will do too much pruning. Healthy this is very good defense... the only sure fire contract that could still bow up in your face is Johnson. But given that your eating 12 million and only gaining 3... it's really not that big a risk. The offense was so ridiculously bad compared to the offense and Sam's got to make the jump next year.... you almost have to put all your resources building up the offense. The two areas that defense needs are at edge rusher and CB... otherwise it looks pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, Lith said: But, if you look at the cost over two years, if you cut him, before March 20, his 2020 salary is not guaranteed. So either, we bite the bullet, release him before March 20 (when his $11M 2020 salary guarantees), save $3MM in 2020 cap ($12MM dead cap vs $15 to keep him) and have no cap hit past 2020. Or, if we pay him, he coutns $15MM agaisnt the 2020 cap and would be another $8MM cap hit if released in 21. By keeping him, he is eating up $23MM in cap across two years; as opposed to just taking the $12MM hit in 20 and no 2021 cap charge and be done with him. If it is me, I am opting for the latter. Sure, if you’re saying he can’t bring any value in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, pdxgreen said: As many FA's as we've signed on D (and a lot of them were big deals) I don't think Douglas will do too much pruning. Healthy this is very good defense... the only sure fire contract that could still bow up in your face is Johnson. But given that your eating 12 million and only gaining 3... it's really not that big a risk. The offense was so ridiculously bad compared to the offense and Sam's got to make the jump next year.... you almost have to put all your resources building up the offense. The two areas that defense needs are at edge rusher and CB... otherwise it looks pretty good. But see that's the problem. We've devoted so many resources to the least important aspects of the defense. Meanwhile, EDGE and CB are the most expensive to acquire in terms of FA dollars AND draft capital. The D will always have a limited ceiling without those pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, TeddEY said: Sure, if you’re saying he can’t bring any value in 2020. Johnson probably brings negative value. I don’t see him back under any circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: But see that's the problem. We've devoted so many resources to the least important aspects of the defense. Meanwhile, EDGE and CB are the most expensive to acquire in terms of FA dollars AND draft capital. The D will always have a limited ceiling without those pieces. It's an offensive league now. If I am going to bet on one side of the ball and put my eggs in one basket then it will be to support Sam. You can win in this league with a prevent type defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, pdxgreen said: It's an offensive league now. If I am going to bet on one side of the ball and put my eggs in one basket then it will be to support Sam. You can win in this league with a prevent type defense. Of course. We need 4-5 new OL and 1-2 new WRs. That takes top priority. But it would also be nice to have a legit pass rusher for the first time since 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, TeddEY said: Sure, if you’re saying he can’t bring any value in 2020. Not saying he can't bring any value in 2020, but not enough to pay him $11M fresh cash even if we can spread the hit over two years. I would rather bite the bullet and be done with him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Johnson probably brings negative value. I don’t see him back under any circumstances. 2 minutes ago, Lith said: Not saying he can't bring any value in 2020, but not enough to pay him $11M fresh cash even if we can spread the hit over two years. I would rather bite the bullet and be done with him now. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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