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joewilly12

NY Giants Fire HC Pat Shurmur

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I don't see how you can get rid of the HC without sending the GM packing as well. But that's just me. 

Even the Jets came to this realization, 5 months later but they still got there. 😂

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4 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I don't see how you can get rid of the HC without sending the GM packing as well. But that's just me. 

Even the Jets came to this realization, 5 months later but they still got there. 😂

Take a look at Gettleman's last two drafts. They were both really good, and they have a ton of cap space.

The Giants have the youngest team in the league, and they got it right with their QB pick. They need OL help and LBs aside from that, its about developing their young talent.

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9 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Take a look at Gettleman's last two drafts. They were both really good, and they have a ton of cap space.

The Giants have the youngest team in the league, and they got it right with their QB pick. They need OL help and LBs aside from that, its about developing their young talent.

2 really good drafts? They were awful this year in a trash division.. Defense was horrible. The offensive line wasn't very good. Barkley was pedestrian. Jones had more fumbles than any QB I can remember. 

If a Jets GM built the same roster half this board would want him fired. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Take a look at Gettleman's last two drafts. They were both really good, and they have a ton of cap space.

The Giants have the youngest team in the league, and they got it right with their QB pick. They need OL help and LBs aside from that, its about developing their young talent.

Really good?  2 years ago he passed on a QB heavy drafty class with Eli one step out the door only to reach for Jones this year. He set that franchise back years with his picks. 

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4 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

As of today, it’s debatable that Gettlemans only real head scratcher is the Leonard Williams trade 

Oh yeah, there was also this doozy of a trade. Gettleman also gave Odell a big contract but was then lucky the Browns bailed him out. 

Gettleman also drafted  CB in the 1st that was a bust this year. 

 

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6 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Take a look at Gettleman's last two drafts. They were both really good, and they have a ton of cap space.

The Giants have the youngest team in the league, and they got it right with their QB pick. They need OL help and LBs aside from that, its about developing their young talent.

He drafted Barkley who is going to be really good, but he's just a RB. The jury is still out on Jones, who has a ton of talent, but still needs development. A good defensive tackle. And a CB who was a disaster in year 1. Those were all of his first round picks.

After that, I look at a lot of his picks and don't really have much of an opinion either way. Hernandez graded out as the 45th overall guard in 2019, he regressed from last year as a player. And all the guys on defense people are giving him credit for (Julian Love, Cory Ballentine, Lorenzo Carter), I would ask myself, if we are going to give him credit for these guys, why was the defense so bad this year? Just because guys are playing doesn't mean they are playing well. Julian Love looked good but I think the other guys are being overrated.

The Giants still have no corners, no consistent pass rush, and Gettleman has struck out big time on the O-Line and in FA in general. Just my opinion.

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21 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Take a look at Gettleman's last two drafts. They were both really good, and they have a ton of cap space.

The Giants have the youngest team in the league, and they got it right with their QB pick. They need OL help and LBs aside from that, its about developing their young talent.

Yea really good they’ve been the worst team in the league two years running

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Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Oh yeah, there was also this doozy of a trade. Gettleman also gave Odell a big contract but was then lucky the Browns bailed him out. 

Gettleman also drafted  CB in the 1st that was a bust this year. 

 

All bad moves yes, but head scratchers?

Before this season, he was getting railroaded for picking Barkley over a QB and then picking Jones at 9 the following year. 
 

Unfortunately for us neither move seems so terrible right now. 

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https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-pat-shurmur-fired-dave-gettleman-20191230-pqtzjnvbqresblfwjfgi7ip7dm-story.html

Giants fire Pat Shurmur after just two seasons, but GM Dave Gettleman to stay

Pat Leonard
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
DEC 30, 2019 | 9:11 AM
 
 
 

Pat’s all, folks.

The Giants fired head coach Pat Shurmur on Black Monday just two years into a five-year contract, the Daily News has confirmed.

But the Giants aren’t making sweeping changes as GM Dave Gettleman is being retained by co-owners John Mara and Steve Tisch. Gettleman is expected to meet with the media on Tuesday.

Shurmur (9-23) finishes with the second-lowest win percentage (.281) of any full-time Giants head coach ahead of only Bill Arnsparger (7-28, .200, 1974-76).

 

Shurmur’s .292 career NFL win percentage (19-46) ranks him 177th of 183 head coaches in league history.

The 2019 Giants (4-12) regressed on Shurmur’s watch to staggering levels of futility.

Pat Shurmur is out after just two season in charge of Big Blue.
Pat Shurmur is out after just two season in charge of Big Blue. (Matt Rourke/AP)

Nine straight losses from Weeks 5 through 14 tied the franchise record originally set in 1976, the inaugural season at Giants Stadium. That streak got Arnsparger fired midseason.

Shurmur’s Giants went winless in the months of October and November (0-7) for the first time in the franchise’s 95 seasons. And they had no Pro Bowlers on the roster for the first time since 1996.

The only other team with no Pro Bowl bids was the Miami Dolphins, who intentionally tanked and assembled one of the worst rosters of all time.

The Giants have missed the playoffs seven of the last eight seasons. The only playoff appearance came in 2016 under GM Jerry Reese and first-year coach Ben McAdoo.

Since the infamous Boat Trip prior to that year’s Wild Card playoff loss in Green Bay, though, the Giants have lost the most games (36) of any franchise in the NFL.

Reese and McAdoo were on their way to getting fired at the end of their second season in 2017 due to a 2-9 start in which McAdoo lost the respect of the locker room.

But then ownership signed off on McAdoo and Reese benching Eli Manning, the entire situation was mishandled, and the Giants fired both the GM and coach with four games to play.

Steve Spagnuolo coached the final four games as interim head coach. McAdoo was dismissed with a 13-15 (.464) record and a playoff appearance in two years.

The early firings of McAdoo and Shurmur are directly connected to Manning’s presence.

The year began with the Giants selecting their QB of the future in Daniel Jones, but ended with coach Pat Shurmur getting canned.
The year began with the Giants selecting their QB of the future in Daniel Jones, but ended with coach Pat Shurmur getting canned. (Julio Cortez/AP)

McAdoo was canned after starting Geno Smith at Oakland in Week 13 of 2017 when Manning refused to participate in a plan to play only the first half.

Gettleman and Shurmur were both hired in part because they were on board with bringing Manning back as the starter in 2018. Their effort to win now in year one, rather than begin a full-scale rebuild, set the franchise back even further.

They still brought Manning back for 2019 after a 5-11 season, despite drafting Duke’s Daniel Jones sixth overall to succeed him. But Shurmur benched Manning after an 0-2 start. Manning had expected to receive eight games to prove he still could win, ESPN reported recently.

Jones won his first two starts, but he then lost eight straight games. After Jones’ debut road win in Tampa Bay in Week 3, Giants senior VP of player personnel Chris Mara stood at the back of Shurmur’s press conference and watched intently, seemingly monitoring how the coach would handle his early validation.

In Week 10, after losing to the Jets, Shurmur took a shot at the Giants’ internal dynamic. He said he didn’t speak to his players post-game because “sometimes in those locker room settings there are a lot of people that I don’t recognize, and I like my message to be for the team.”

When Jones sprained his right ankle against Green Bay in Week 13, the rookie quarterback made clear he could start the next week in Philadelphia and wanted to keep playing.

But the Giants benched Jones for two weeks to get Manning back in the lineup and give him his final home start in Week 15, a victory over the terrible Dolphins.

Shurmur made several comments in the second half of this season that were critical of Gettleman’s roster, as well.

It was understandable why the coach would try to remind people how the deck had been stacked against him. Gettleman has been hiding from public view since a late July press conference, ducking accountability on the sorry state of the franchise and season.

Shurmur took it to another level last Monday, however when he said that “some of these young guys who on most teams would be backups or maybe practice squad players, they’re front line guys for us."

The coach was complicit in helping compile this roster, though. While Shurmur was a huge advocate of Odell Beckham Jr.’s when he first took over as head coach, he and Gettleman jettisoned the star wide receiver together.

Shurmur’s best asset was his offensive play-calling. One player said he loved Shurmur’s offensive approach because he was always willing to listen to suggestions and allowed the game plan to constantly evolve.

But his in-game decision-making was inconsistent and often cost the Giants points at critical junctures of eventual defeats.

That was no more evident in Week 14 at Philadelphia, when the Eagles’ Doug Pederson made several halftime adjustments and Shurmur did not, and the Giants were left flat-footed to surrender a 14-point lead.

Sources also said Shurmur was as poor and uninspiring a communicator behind the scenes as he was in front of the cameras. The coach’s inability to effectively communicate publicly and privately begs the question of why ownership did not identify that while interviewing him.

The Giants were interested in two Patriots coordinators they interviewed during that search process: Josh McDaniels and Matt Patricia. But Patricia chose the Detroit Lions, and McDaniels balked at any Giants opportunity, choosing the Colts before backing out to stay in New England.

So the Giants hired Shurmur, who had been the NFL’s 2017 assistant coach of the year as the Minnesota Vikings’ offensive coordinator. Shurmur ended up matching his 9-23 record as the Cleveland Browns’ head coach (2011-12), however, in two failed years in New York.

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22 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Take a look at Gettleman's last two drafts. They were both really good, and they have a ton of cap space.

The Giants have the youngest team in the league, and they got it right with their QB pick. They need OL help and LBs aside from that, its about developing their young talent.

I'm not sure most Giant fans would say they got it right with Jones. All he has proven is he has a chance to be good. This is coming from my brother who is a huge Giants fan. 

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12 minutes ago, slats said:

Damn, everybody's getting their QB pick right but the Jets. 

We have our young QB, just like a bunch of other teams seem too. 

Some of us are just more excited about what he's shown then others are. The fact that we aren't gushing over what he's done isn't the same thing as saying we're giving up on him.

 

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Granted the midgets haven’t been the same franchise lately but if they hire Matt Ruhle I don’t want to hear he wasn’t a good choice for the Jets and that suddenly all the talking heads know everything about him but was a unknown candidate for the Jets!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Smart— meanwhile the Jets are giving this awful coach another year to **** it up

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9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I'm not sure most Giant fans would say they got it right with Jones. All he has proven is he has a chance to be good. This is coming from my brother who is a huge Giants fan. 

That's fair.

Would you say it's the same thing here with Darnold? Or other young QBs like Allen, Haskins and Mayfield?

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3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

That's fair.

Would you say it's the same thing here with Darnold? Or other young QBs like Allen, Haskins and Mayfield?

I think Jones and Sam have a good chance. Need to see more, much more.

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7 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

That's fair.

Would you say it's the same thing here with Darnold? Or other young QBs like Allen, Haskins and Mayfield?

I think Haskins can be very good. He got better with each game he played. Allen has already proven he can play well enough to win most games. Yeah he makes bad decisions  but he is making less of them now. Baker has the tools, but he makes sone awful mistakes and he has noticably regressed this season with more weapons (OBJ and Hunt).

Sam has not shown improvement  this season but it is so hard to judge him playing behind this OL and yes, I think Gase has done  him no favors with the type of O he runs. Also Anderson makes me want to throw things at my TV. When the play is not going to him, he basically has no interest in what is going on around him and it sometimes leads to picks when Sam has to comes off his first option and tried to go to Anderson who is just not trying. I do think Sam has incredible  talent. You can see it with the accuracy  he has. Sam has a chance to be great. 

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That’s a titty job for the next coach. They need a left tackle and some linebackers, but that team is ready to win

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24 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

He drafted Barkley who is going to be really good, but he's just a RB. The jury is still out on Jones, who has a ton of talent, but still needs development, a good defensive tackle. And a CB who was a disaster in year 1. Those were all of his first round picks.

After that, I look at a lot of his picks and don't really have much of an opinion either way. Hernandez graded out as the 45th overall guard in 2019, he regressed from last year as a player. And all the guys on defense people are giving him credit for (Julian Love, Cory Ballentine, Lorenzo Carter), I would ask myself, if we are going to give him credit for these guys, why was the defense so bad this year? Just because guys are playing doesn't mean they are playing well. Julian Love looked good but I think the other guys are being overrated.

The Giants still have no corners, no consistent pass rush, and Gettleman has struck out big time on the O-Line and in FA in general. Just my opinion.

Good post.

I just think the Giants are rebuilding the correct way. They tore things down, drafted premium position players, and bit the bullet by throwing them right into the fire. Did they struggle at times? Hell yes. Did they show promise? I think a lot of them did.

Do the Giants still have problems? Of course they do. Shurmur didn't work out, and that hurt. It looks like they're going to go with Matt Rhule. We'll see about him. They also need LBs, the cupboard is bare there. They need OL help. and a #1 WR. That sounds familiar, lol. I'd disagree that Barkley is "just a RB". but I get your point. I wouldn't take a RB that high either.

All that being said, I'll stick with what I said about Gettleman and his drafting. He has to do better when signing FAs, but I like his method of putting a team together. I know a lot of Giants fans disagree, but that's my opinion.

 

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That’s a titty job for the next coach. They need a left tackle and some linebackers, but that team is ready to win

NFL Network is saying Rhule is probably their guy...

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20 minutes ago, Ken Schroy said:

I think Jones and Sam have a good chance. Need to see more, much more.

We're on the same page.

If I had to guess, I'd say both end up as long term guys, but neither become "elite" types who carry their teams. That doesn't mean you can't win with them though.

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6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

NFL Network is saying Rhule is probably their guy...

It’s a prestige job with a legacy franchise. They can get people like Rhule on the phone. I’d still be curious to see what happens if the Pats get knocked out of the playoffs in the next two weeks. Belichick could take the Giants job and become King of Jersey 

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the Giants keeping Gettleman is good for the Jets.   If a new GM came in he could walk away from Leonard Williams trade but Gettleman has to resign him to avoid defending paying two picks for a half year rental.   When they resign him, that 5 th rd pick becomes a 4 th rounder next year!

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1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

As of today, it’s debatable that Gettlemans only real head scratcher is the Leonard Williams trade 

Well, he hired Pat Shurmer, signed OBJ only to trade him 8 months later and take a disastrous cap hit, let Landon Collins walk for nothing in return, signed Nate Solder for a fortune, i could go on ...

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I'll be enraged if the Giants get Rhule.  Yeah yeah, only time will tell but that guy is a head football coach and a team builder not a glorified oc or dc living off distant past rep.

I can only hope Carolina hires rhule first.

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1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

All bad moves yes, but head scratchers?

Before this season, he was getting railroaded for picking Barkley over a QB and then picking Jones at 9 the following year. 
 

 Unfortunately for us neither move seems so terrible right now. 

Barkley was decent this year. Nothing special. CMC/Henry/Cook were clearly better. Guys like Chubb/Mixon are just as good and also played on bad offenses. 

Despite how "great" he is, was supposed to be, the team and the offense have been bad the last 2 years. RBs don't age well. 

By the time the Giants figure this thing out how good will Barkley be? Barkley is the guy you draft at 2 when you are already a great team and RB is the missing piece, he is not the guy you draft at the start of a rebuild.  

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