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southtown24th

DRAFT OL

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12 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

At 11 the measuring stick should be “is Wirfs available?” If he’s not then either trade down to later in the first and pick up a 2nd or 3rd or take a WR named Lamb, Jeudy or Higgins. I don’t love Jeudy but he’s a more sure prospect than Leatherwood, who would be the next OT up.

Austin Jackson is also a first round T from USC. He held up admirably against Espenensa the other day.

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It all depends on how free agency shakes out.  If Douglas manages to sign decent OL such as Andrus Peat and Daryl Williams for the right side of the line and re-signs Beachum at LT that changes the calculus significantly.  He then needs to add a starting center and a LT prospect in rounds 2-3.  I could live with Williams, Peat, Biadasz, Lewis and Beachum to start 2020.  Add in a CB and OLB in free agency and the draft comes to him instead of chasing.  

It makes so sense to speculate on who will be taken at #11 until mid-March.

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1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

No one is disputing that the OL should be a top priority.

But are you trying to claim that WR isn’t?

The only wideouts under contract for next year are Crowder, Smith, Berrios, Bellamy and a broken down Enunwa.

If the Top 3 OT’s are gone at #11, I’m not taking an OL just for the sake of taking an OL. And I’m sure as hell not taking the 4th or 5th rated OT over someone like Lamb, Jeudy or even Tee Higgins.

Besides, I can pretty much guarantee that Douglas isn’t waiting all the way until the draft to start addressing the unit. My guess is that at least one of Joe Thuney, Brandon Scherff or Jack Conklin is probably a Jet within 10 weeks.

This is the strategy. 

Douglas has to -and will- address the OL in free agency, adding at least one big signing penciled in to start for the next five years. And he won't be done there. He needs to be in a position to be flexible with that #11 pick, not locked into taking an OL purely because of need. 

That said, if they skip OL for WR in round one (and I'd be fine with it), they'd almost certainly have to force the OL pick in the second, and again with one of their thirds. Which also is fine. The distance between prospects is generally greater in the top half of the first round than it is in the mid-40s. In the first round, you want to be able to take your (weighted) BAP. Jets need to match that first pick with the BAP that best fits their needs (or trade back and collect more picks!). 

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24 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Austin Jackson is also a first round T from USC. He held up admirably against Espenensa the other day.

He’s a second rounder. Taking him at 11 would be a waste of an asset.

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59 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

That’s goofy

If someone like Alex Leatherwood or Austin Jackson is the best available OT when we go on the clock and Douglas has a late 1st/early 2nd grade on them, you don’t take one of them at #11 just because.

Especially when a 5’9 180 lb Jamison Crowder is currently your best wideout and you could potentially be staring someone like Lamb or Jeudy right in the face.

The Jets’ meaningless wins took us out of the LT game.    The likely pick at 11 will be a WR or CB.  We will likely be kicking ourselves over who gets picked at 9 and 10, but the other way of looking at this is that the Jets won meaningless games, but lost games they should have won (Dolphins, Jaguars, Bengals), so 7-9 is probably the right record for this team.

Where Douglas makes his money is figuring out who he signs as FA.  If he really thought there would not be a T he will like in the draft, he would sign as many linemen as he could get, possibly cutting Avery as an excess resource to do so.  If he signed Beachum, Conklin and Thuney/Scheff/Lewis, that could theoretically be a line 10x better than last year.  Then he drafts a WR and things are better.  

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Just now, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Let me get this straight:

The offensive line needs to be improved?

Wow, what an original idea.

It is if you are Mike McCagnan.

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1 hour ago, southtown24th said:

you can bring in Al Toon, if Sam is getting his ass kicked every play, WR makes NO DIFFERENCE.

Funny that it is a miracle with this Oline all year that Sam's only injury that cost him games was Mono. He had hand and ankle injuries but always practiced fully and t never seemed they hindered him in the games. That has to go to his mobility since if he was a pure pocket passer with this Oline he would have been hurt much more missing more time and not getting good progress/exp. this year. 

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52 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He’s a second rounder. Taking him at 11 would be a waste of an asset.

Its easy. If Wirfs is gone by 11, which I seriously doubt, you take Biadasz the C from Wisconsin. Then, in round 2 you take Trey Adams or Austin Jackson or even Leatherwood. Instant oline improvement. Wirfs will be there at 11 imo because I see it every year where the sexy picks/busts dominate the top 10. The overrated QBs, WRs, DTs, and OLBs take the cake. Factor in that Thomas will be gone in the first 6 picks and we have a great chance Wirfs is there at 11.

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1 hour ago, BettyBoop said:

It all depends on how free agency shakes out.  If Douglas manages to sign decent OL such as Andrus Peat and Daryl Williams for the right side of the line and re-signs Beachum at LT that changes the calculus significantly.  He then needs to add a starting center and a LT prospect in rounds 2-3.  I could live with Williams, Peat, Biadasz, Lewis and Beachum to start 2020.  Add in a CB and OLB in free agency and the draft comes to him instead of chasing.  

It makes so sense to speculate on who will be taken at #11 until mid-March.

I'd be done with Beachum. He's an old injury prone average LT. We can upgrade easily.

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1 hour ago, section314 said:

What if that's the C from Wisconsin, Biadasz? I read a very early draft report recently where a decent amount of scouts think he's the best offensive lineman in the draft.

I'm thinking similar thoughts.  If the top OL on your board is the center the right decision may be to just draft him.  Very high slot to draft a center though.  Maybe JD could maneuver a trade down and still get his guy.

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2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

That’s goofy

If someone like Alex Leatherwood or Austin Jackson is the best available OT when we go on the clock and Douglas has a late 1st/early 2nd grade on them, you don’t take one of them at #11 just because.

Especially when a 5’9 180 lb Jamison Crowder is currently your best wideout and you could potentially be staring someone like Lamb or Jeudy right in the face.

Agreed -- OL is deep. You go best offensive player, WR or OL, in the first and then with the next three picks take at least 1 more OL. 

If the draft went: 1-Jeudy, 2-Jedrick Wills, 3a-Wanagho, 3b-Jaylon Johnson (CB) -- we'd all be thrilled.

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3 hours ago, southtown24th said:

you can bring in Al Toon, if Sam is getting his ass kicked every play, WR makes NO DIFFERENCE.

This is really all that needs to be said. If there is no time to throw to Juedy or or CeeDee what's the point? 

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I'm already sick of people saying "oh he has a 2nd round grade you cant take him at 11." IDGAF what "grade"the guy has. If he is a 5-10 year plug and play starter on this line you draft 3 of them. Priority #1 is build the wall at all costs.

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52 minutes ago, TNJet said:

I'd be done with Beachum. He's an old injury prone average LT. We can upgrade easily.

No we can’t. There’s a reason he’s been the starter.

 

56 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Its easy. If Wirfs is gone by 11, which I seriously doubt, you take Biadasz the C from Wisconsin. Then, in round 2 you take Trey Adams or Austin Jackson or even Leatherwood. Instant oline improvement. Wirfs will be there at 11 imo because I see it every year where the sexy picks/busts dominate the top 10. The overrated QBs, WRs, DTs, and OLBs take the cake. Factor in that Thomas will be gone in the first 6 picks and we have a great chance Wirfs is there at 11.

i think there’s a possibility Wirfs is there. Off the top of my head Herbert, Burrow, Tua, Young, Thomas, Jeudy, Lamb, Okudah, Brown are very likely to go before him. Add in pre-draft hype for Eason and we might get Wirfs. But if he’s gone I don’t agree with taking Biadasz when you can trade down and get Humphries plus another pick.

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2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

That’s goofy

If someone like Alex Leatherwood or Austin Jackson is the best available OT when we go on the clock and Douglas has a late 1st/early 2nd grade on them, you don’t take one of them at #11 just because.

Especially when a 5’9 180 lb Jamison Crowder is currently your best wideout and you could potentially be staring someone like Lamb or Jeudy right in the face.

 You're assuming one of Lamb or Jeudy will be there, which may very well not be the case. I think Higgins is not the same level of prospect as either one of those. In your original post you said you would even go with Higgins, well there's a big difference, IMO, between Lamb/Jeudy and Higgins. I probably would not draft Leatherwood over Lamb or Jeudy but I would over Higgins. Leatherwood is a legit Blue Chip LT prospect in his own right. I would not be at all surprised if he ended up being a very good long term starting LT in the NFL (even if not a Pro Bowler).

When you say our best receiver is Crowder, you are discounting FA. I could just as easily assume we cut Winters and say our ONLY  O-linemen are Edoga and Harrison. Point being that the Jets could (and very likely will) sign WR help even as they let Robby walk and plan to draft a WR.

I think the Jets desperate need at BOTH guard positions, BOTH OT positions, depth at C and depth throughout the O-line will force their hand to reach for an OT in Rd. 1- for better or worse. Frankly, getting a guy like Leatherwood as a worst case scenario is not bad IMO. They will need to do much more in FA just to put together a functioning line that can protect Darnold so the Offense can function and it doesn't look like a disaster.

Not only can the Jets get fantastic WR talent in Rd. 2 but they will have to this year.   

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Too early in the process to see who we going to draft.  There isn't one dominant tackle I see in this draft like Tyron Smith from Dallas.  I have been watching and evaluating some offensive linemen and want to see the rest of the bowl games, Senior Bowl and then the combine. I do have to say I watched two games recently again and just watched the offensive offensive tackles and Thomas is athletic and has quick feet but doesn't look to engage. He blocks high and his best attribute is his arms. He never holds or comes close to holding.   I also looked at Cole Van Lanen of Wisconsin and Thayer Munford of Ohio St. in their Big Ten championship game and both were more impressive than Thomas versus LSU.  Lanen went against Chase Young the whole game and after the first bull rush he bested him all the way to the middle of the 4th quarter.  Thayer was another impressive player. He didn't allow any Wisconsin player come close to his QB and pancaked a few of the Wisconsin players. Thomas is not worth a top 5 pick. He could drop in my estimation and he isn't playing in his bowl game. 

I watched Wirfs many times this year and he is the real deal but he is a right tackle. But I am truly impressed by him and you know he got well coached.     

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1 minute ago, Tony The Wiz said:

Too early in the process to see who we going to draft.  There isn't one dominant tackle I see in this draft like Tyron Smith from Dallas.  I have been watching and evaluating some offensive linemen and want to see the rest of the bowl games, Senior Bowl and then the combine. I do have to say I watched two games recently again and just watched the offensive offensive tackles and Thomas is athletic and has quick feet but doesn't look to engage. He blocks high and his best attribute is his arms. He never holds or comes close to holding.   I also looked at Cole Van Lanen of Wisconsin and Thayer Munford of Ohio St. in their Big Ten championship game and both were more impressive than Thomas versus LSU.  Lanen went against Chase Young the whole game and after the first bull rush he bested him all the way to the middle of the 4th quarter.  Thayer was another impressive player. He didn't allow any Wisconsin player come close to his QB and pancaked a few of the Wisconsin players. Thomas is not worth a top 5 pick. He could drop in my estimation and he isn't playing in his bowl game.     

Tony....what do you see from the Wisconsin C, Biadasz? Is he a top 15 guy?

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9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

No we can’t. There’s a reason he’s been the starter.

 

i think there’s a possibility Wirfs is there. Off the top of my head Herbert, Burrow, Tua, Young, Thomas, Jeudy, Lamb, Okudah, Brown are very likely to go before him. Add in pre-draft hype for Eason and we might get Wirfs. But if he’s gone I don’t agree with taking Biadasz when you can trade down and get Humphries plus another pick.

My poiny exactly that is 9 guys right there. Factor in your combine hyped guys of pass rusher speed and thats a couple more than sneak in top 10.

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2 minutes ago, section314 said:

Tony....what do you see from the Wisconsin C, Biadasz? Is he a top 15 guy?

I have been watching him for three years now. He is real good and I call him Bad Ass !!  He is a junkyard dog and yeah he will get stronger and bigger when going to NFL. If you want a center he is one to take. Now there is a few other centers in this draft like Nick Harris out of  Washington, Jake Hanson out of Oregon and Zack Shackelford out of Texas who are all really impressive.  

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10 minutes ago, TNJet said:

My poiny exactly that is 9 guys right there. Factor in your combine hyped guys of pass rusher speed and thats a couple more than sneak in top 10.

I see these ten players right now will go first.   Burrow, Herbert, Young, Derrick Brown, Delpit out of LSU,  Okudah,  Tua, Dee Dee Lamb, Jeudy, and Epenesa .    I feel Thomas the OT will drop.  

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3 minutes ago, Tony The Wiz said:

I see these ten players right now will go first.   Burrow, Herbert, Young, Derrick Brown, Delpit out of LSU,  Okudah,  Tua, Dee Dee Lamb, Jeudy, and Epenesa .    I feel Thomas the OT will drop.  

If true then great Thomas is from what I hear the best LT. I'm just preparing for Wirfs at 11 incase Thomas is gone. Much like I did in 2018 preparing for Baker or Rosen, thinking Sam was a lock at 1 or 2. Gosh we got so lucky then.

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25 minutes ago, TNJet said:

If true then great Thomas is from what I hear the best LT. I'm just preparing for Wirfs at 11 incase Thomas is gone. Much like I did in 2018 preparing for Baker or Rosen, thinking Sam was a lock at 1 or 2. Gosh we got so lucky then.

At this present time Wirfs is a better RT than Thomas a LT.  Watching the Georgia-LSU championship game and seen good moments by Thomas but also bad moments by Thomas. And he was not going against a great defensive player on LSU.  Wirfs was dominating versus USC and he got coached up by probably the best head coach in college who was an offensive lineman. 

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If Callahan shakes lose with the coaching change in Wash do the Jets open up the checkbook for him to be the new Oline coach.

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