Trade Adams

[Jetsfan80]

17 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Yes, but SS are supposed to cover TE's and RB in coverage, hence being up on the line. Adams is doing what the position calls for. Maye is the FS. Granted he had a down year this season. Hopefully he picks it up. 

And his position just isn't that valuable.  Certainly not $15M per.  

While people are busy lauding Adams for his sack totals, they forget that he was a liability for our pass coverage as well.  The more time he spent freelancing at the LOS or rushing the passer, the more of a strain he put on the rest of the D when he wasn't getting to the QB. 

Just because Gregg Williams was using him like that doesn't mean its a sustainable way to build a defense.  John Fox built an offense around Tim Tebow once and won a playoff game.  Didn't stop the Broncos from moving on from Tebow the next season.

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The offense needs major help but trading your best defensive player from a top 10 D is not helping the cause, addition by subtraction, no thanks. 

Of course it will help the cause.  We'd use those picks to draft OL and WR and use the $15M per we'd be devoting to Adams on something else.  

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If we trade Jamal I think Douglas should do it in-season this coming November.

The longer we wait the more his value will drop.  2021 will be the year he gets a huge pay bump with his 5th-year option.

[jetstream23]

I'm not just taking a mid-round 1st for this guy...

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-examining-the-nfls-best-safeties

 

Quote

 

JAMAL ADAMS: THE GAME’S BEST BLITZING SAFETY

No defensive coordinator loves blitzing the quarterback more than the New York Jets‘ Gregg Williams, and there is no better safety to utilize to that end than Jamal Adams, the league’s most valuable safety last season in terms of PFF WAR. He embodies all the tools needed to master the position: He is smart, fast and physical in his relentless pursuit of the quarterback, and his 22 total pressures generated gives him a pass-rush win rate of 24.1% this year, which ranks second among safeties.

Jamal Adams' ability to disguise his intent to rush the quarterback works well with the Jets’ front seven. In the play above, Adams will mask his intent by pretending to be locked in man-to-man coverage on the tight end. Then watch his physical bull rush against running back Saqaun Barkley before he takes the ball from quarterback Daniel Jones and races into the end zone for a touchdown. This play is fully emblematic of Adams' complete skill set. His next sack will be his eighth this season and will tie a league record for defensive backs.

Defensive plays made at the line of scrimmage or in the opponent's backfield have a greater impact than non-turnover plays made further downfield. By playing in the other team’s backfield, the Jets' defense is creating negative-yardage plays for the opposing offense and boosting their EPA allowed per play into a top-10 mark in the entire NFL (-0.06).

Adams is No Liability in Coverage, Either

Having a versatile safety is incredibly valuable for NFL defensive schemes and game planning. A blitzing safety with no coverage skills could only be used in and around the line of scrimmage, and his presence there would immediately tip-off the opponent that a blitz, not coverage, is the safety's only option. As a do-it-all safety in the Jets' defense, Jamal Adams has proven to be an asset, and he's no liability when matched up in pass coverage, either. This season, he's allowed a passer rating of just 80.7 on throws into his primary coverage, which is way below the league-wide average for safeties (93.6). Adams’ pass coverage skills make him a complete, every-down safety in a league where teams will be using three such players more often than not.

His knack for pass-rushing combined with his talent to defend both the run and the pass has made him the only defensive back in the NFL who has played at least 200 snaps yet earned a top-10 PFF grade in coverage (86.1, seventh among safeties), against the run (81.6, seventh), as a tackler (89.7, second) and as a pass-rusher (90.4, tied for first).

That last paragraph is pretty ridiculous.  Adams is a special player.

[FidelioJet]

38 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

F**k the defense.  We've devoted endless resources into the defense and it still sucks.  

Get a brand new OL and a WR or 2 in here and have Gregg Williams work with what he's got, UNLESS we can stumble into a quality EDGE and/or CB.  

Part of the story, at least for right now, is we have a very good DC and a bad OC.

Williams has shown he can work with injuries and still product a quality product.  

We need to devote resources to offense.  As many as possible.

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

I agree paying a safety an astronomical sum of money is stupid. Who were the safeties in the last 10 Super Bowls? 

Troy Polamalo was a force for the Steelers. Of course Ronnie Lott but that’s the 90’s

[More Cowbell]

27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And servicable is good enough.  The D will be servicable with or without Jamal Adams.  We won't be able to fix the offense without massive resources being devoted towards it.  

Without Adams, the D will probably be below average 

[joewilly12]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Of course it will help the cause.  We'd use those picks to draft OL and WR and use the $15M per we'd be devoting to Adams on something else.  

It will weaken the D considerably, i'm not in favor of trading Jamal Adams. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

1 hour ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Aside from a QB what other player carries a team to the Super Bowl?

running back who catches passes and blocks

[More Cowbell]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And his position just isn't that valuable.  Certainly not $15M per.  

While people are busy lauding Adams for his sack totals, they forget that he was a liability for our pass coverage as well.  The more time he spent freelancing at the LOS or rushing the passer, the more of a strain he put on the rest of the D when he wasn't getting to the QB. 

Just because Gregg Williams was using him like that doesn't mean its a sustainable way to build a defense.  John Fox built an offense around Tim Tebow once and won a playoff game.  Didn't stop the Broncos from moving on from Tebow the next season.

Ok, did you just seriously compare Adams to Tim Tebow. 

Look, I'm not going to argue this point with you after that. It's  obvious you hate him and I'm  not going to waste my time trying to change your mind.

I will just say this. Adams plays his position correctly, he also is not a liability on pass coverage.

Tebow? Seriously?

[joewilly12]

Trade Jamal Adams thread. 

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

I agree paying a safety an astronomical sum of money is stupid. Who were the safeties in the last 10 Super Bowls? 

let's see, there was rodney harrison, bob sanders, troy palumalu.  all of those guys were impact players for their teams.  i agree that the jets shouldn't just give a ton to adams if there is a really good trade deal available but at the same time they need guys like adams to give the defense some on field leadership and accountability.  if adams has those intangibles then he should be re-signed.

[Embrace the Suck]

1 hour ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Aside from a QB what other player carries a team to the Super Bowl?

Guards help carry QBs.

[rangerous]

28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And his position just isn't that valuable.  Certainly not $15M per.  

While people are busy lauding Adams for his sack totals, they forget that he was a liability for our pass coverage as well.  The more time he spent freelancing at the LOS or rushing the passer, the more of a strain he put on the rest of the D when he wasn't getting to the QB. 

Just because Gregg Williams was using him like that doesn't mean its a sustainable way to build a defense.  John Fox built an offense around Tim Tebow once and won a playoff game.  Didn't stop the Broncos from moving on from Tebow the next season.

if his position just isn't that valuable then what makes anyone think a team is going to offer up a bunch of draft picks for him?  at this point he's at least worth a 6 pick.  why?  because he's a proven player and has played near the top of his position since he came in.  there's no guarantee the no. 6 player this season would achieve that.  and the jets have lots of experience with highly drafted players who just don't work out.

[T0mShane]

If you set aside Jamal Adams’ “pass rushing,” is he still worth $15 million? Because you’re making quite a big deal about a guy who got six sacks on unblocked safety blitzes

[Creepy Lurker]

35 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I'm not in the "Don't trade him no matter what" camp.  If the compensation is right then I'd do it.  But he's under contract cheap for next year (4th), can have his 5th year option exercised AND could even be franchised in Year 6.  And, as I've also said before, you tend to get more for a player that you trade DURING the season than at Draft time.  It's human nature.  Think about it....you're a GM and as the Draft approaches you're mouth waters with the opportunity to select all these great college players.  You want MORE picks, not fewer.  But in October or November you're in-season and maybe you have a 4-2 team that you think "This is the year!" but you need a difference-maker on D.  That's when you care less about a draft that's 6 months away and you possibly overpay with Draft picks for a player.

If we trade Jamal I think Douglas should do it in-season this coming November.

I agree 100% about the timing and I think we missed the ideal time to trade him unfortunately. We will see what happens. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

if his position just isn't that valuable then what makes anyone think a team is going to offer up a bunch of draft picks for him?  at this point he's at least worth a 6 pick.  why?  because he's a proven player and has played near the top of his position since he came in.  there's no guarantee the no. 6 player this season would achieve that.  and the jets have lots of experience with highly drafted players who just don't work out.

Except he wasn’t worth the sixth overall when Maccagnan made him the sixth overall

[CrazyCarl40]

The Jets have very little movable talent to rebuild the offensive side of the ball. Jamal Adams is going to want a ton of money and paying a non-premium position that kind of money is insane. I get the homegrown talent piece and the “we don’t have good players” but with the picks garnered and the money saved you could get 4 above average players that play positions for the Jets where the currently have below average players. This team needs an injection of talent and swapping one guy for three or four solid players is a no brainer. 

[NYJ1]

51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, because I'm sure we'll be able to find 4 starting OL and 2 new starting WRs with those 7 picks.  

And you think if we trade Jamal Adams we're going to be able to fulfill all those needs? And is that also all we need on this team? This is so ridiculous. We are not going to fill all of those needs regardless of what we do in this off season. You're dreaming if you think we can.

[choon328]

For me to trade Adams this is what I would need in return.  

 

I would take 12 & 19 from the Raiders this year.

 

I would take 9 & 20 from the Jaguars this year. 

 

I wouldn't accept anything less than 2 1sts for him considering he's under contract for 2 more years at a reasonable rate and he's the best at his position. 

 

Getting those 2 picks the Jets would have 6 picks in the top 80.  They can completely overhaul this offensive line in one draft while also bringing in a big time rookie WR for Sam.

[NYJ1]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you set aside Jamal Adams’ “pass rushing,” is he still worth $15 million? Because you’re making quite a big deal about a guy who got six sacks on unblocked safety blitzes

Would it make you feel better if he had to shed blocks to get his sacks? What nonsense. Shane you need a lobotomy if you're thinking yes.

[jetstream23]

I love the positional value derangement.  Who cares about whether he's labeled a S, an Edge guy, a 5th LB or whatever.  Jamal's value is in WHAT he does, not HOW he's identified in terms of position.  I guess I'm fine ignoring Jamal's pass-rushing and sacks because he's a Safety the same way we should ignore Lamar Jackson's rushing yards and TDs because he's a QB?

Perhaps if we ignored the S on his chest we'd appreciate him having as many sacks as DEs and DLinemen like Calais Campbell, Derek Barnett and Shaq Lawson this year?

We have a fanbase that's been craving an Edge rusher for years and wants to get the sack total up.  We have a fanbase that has interior DLine fatigue, etc.  Yet, Jordan Jenkins (OLB) and Jamal Adams (SS) are the only two guys with more than 3 sacks on the entire team!  It's a fact that the Jets get little/no interior pass rush and our one productive Edge rusher is a Free Agent this year.  And now we want to trade Jamal Adams? Let's just get rid of any Jet who has been within 3 yards of an opposing QB this year! lol

[jetstream23]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you set aside Jamal Adams’ “pass rushing,” is he still worth $15 million? Because you’re making quite a big deal about a guy who got six sacks on unblocked safety blitzes

I dunno.  If you set aside Lamar Jackson's rushing is he still considered a great QB?

How much are the Bears paying for Khalil Mack's 8.5 sacks this year?  Does he also cover TE's?

[Savage69]

2 hours ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Aside from a QB what other player carries a team to the Super Bowl?

Terrell Davis..

[TNJet]

2 first round picks >>> Adams

[jetstream23]

I have an idea....Let's take the best player the New York Jets have drafted since Darrelle Revis and trade him to make up for the piss-poor job this team has done in building the rest of the roster.

 

[NYJ1]

On second thought I would trade him for the right price. At the time, Dallas offered their 1st rounder. Joe D. said he wanted their 1st round draft pick AND Zach Martin. If Dallas can meet that asking price? Then I would trade Jamal. But I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a 1st rounder AND another player at the very top of the game. I've been told Zach Martin is as good as Alan Faneca was. That's the ONLY deal I'll make for Jamal.

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Aside from a QB what other player carries a team to the Super Bowl?

Von Miller

[Thai Jet]

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

I see @T0mShane hiding in the bushes with a hammer. 

[New York Mick]

This is a fresh new idea

[jetstream23]

50 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Part of the story, at least for right now, is we have a very good DC and a bad OC.

Williams has shown he can work with injuries and still product a quality product.  

We need to devote resources to offense.  As many as possible.

I'm fine devoting resources to offense....the majority of the FA budget, 5 or 6 Draft picks.  I'm not fine with turning a strength into a weakness just to make up for the ineptness in offensive roster building over the past 5 years.

The idea that we must subtract in order to add is ridiculous.  Any GM who thinks he's good at what he does should be able to prioritize 2 or 3 offensive upgrades in Free Agency and then use 4 Draft picks in the first 3 Rounds to improve a team.  If Joe Douglas can't upgrade LT, OG, WR, a second OG or WR, and possibly Center through the use of FA and existing Draft capital then he should find a new job. Even 2nd tier FA's are going to be upgrades for this Jets team.

Retain Beachum, Alex Lewis, Shell and maybe Qvale.  Edoga is still here to compete but likely a backup.  Add two starting OLineman in FA (maybe a Scherff, Thuney, Costanzo, etc. plus a lesser OG) and draft 2 or 3 more (Wirfs, Becton, Biadasz, Niang, Humphrey, Jackson, etc.).  We're not replacing 5 guys on the OLine this year.  It's just not doable.  But we can reasonably expect to upgrade 3 spots.  The Jets can also get a very, very good WR in this Draft during the first 3 rounds.

We don't need to trade our best player to kickstart an upgrade on offense.

[Dunnie]

...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[joewilly12]

22 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I'm fine devoting resources to offense....the majority of the FA budget, 5 or 6 Draft picks.  I'm not fine with turning a strength into a weakness just to make up for the ineptness in offensive roster building over the past 5 years.

The idea that we must subtract in order to add is ridiculous.  Any GM who thinks he's good at what he does should be able to prioritize 2 or 3 offensive upgrades in Free Agency and then use 4 Draft picks in the first 3 Rounds to improve a team.  If Joe Douglas can't upgrade LT, OG, WR, a second OG or WR, and possibly Center through the use of FA and existing Draft capital then he should find a new job. Even 2nd tier FA's are going to be upgrades for this Jets team.

Retain Beachum, Alex Lewis, Shell and maybe Qvale.  Edoga is still here to compete but likely a backup.  Add two starting OLineman in FA (maybe a Scherff, Thuney, Costanzo, etc. plus a lesser OG) and draft 2 or 3 more (Wirfs, Becton, Biadasz, Niang, Humphrey, Jackson, etc.).  We're not replacing 5 guys on the OLine this year.  It's just not doable.  But we can reasonably expect to upgrade 3 spots.  The Jets can also get a very, very good WR in this Draft during the first 3 rounds.

We don't need to trade our best player to kickstart an upgrade on offense.

[T0mShane]

48 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I love the positional value derangement

 

I think the derangement is in thinking that a guy with 61 tackles and 6 sacks is irreplaceable