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If Jamal Adams holds out this summer poll


T0mShane

If Jamal Adams Holds Out This Offseason/Demands to be the Highest Paid Safety in football, you’ll be...  

88 members have voted

  1. 1. If Jamal Adams Holds Out Demanding to be the highest paid safety in football, you’ll be all

    • Pro Jamal/Get Paid
    • Let Him Rot/F That


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1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

the problem with this analysis is that it ignores the overall talent level at other positions.  the jets had an historically bad OL this season, they need at least 3 new starters, and may let robbie walk in FA and then need a top wr as well.  

at this point in the team's rebuilding, the best use of the team's resources is to try to trade jamal and use the picks and cap room to help the offense.  b/c if the offensive line remains such a mess it won't matter how good jamall is.

Oh my God, we may not have Robbie Anderson because we want to pay Jamal? The Horror 

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17 minutes ago, JiF said:

The confidence level in Joe Douglas must be insanely low if you all truly think he's not capable of signing an All-Pro to an extension while building the rest of the team around Sam Darnold

Let’s also chop off one of Joe Douglas’ thumbs if we’re needlessly adding on to the level of difficulty.

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8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s voted on by AP sportswriters. An AP writer is essentially the bottom of the profession. I’ll guarantee you’ve literally never read an article disseminated by the AP.

This is cute considering the constant cry you used to make about Tanny/Rex not being able to draft pro-bowlers.  And I thought when dudes who made the probowl by name got in we used allpro as the true test...but Idk man, it's hard to follow the ever changing narratives. 

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11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He is not a terrible player, the value of his position and how he is used is terrible.

Positions I would rather have an all pro player than SS:

QB

OT

OG

Center

TE

WR

RB

CB

PASS RUSHER

The successfully run organizations in the league disagree with you.

 

I too want all those positions and the neat thing is, you can have them in addition to Jamalpro!!!  

 

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16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s also chop off one of Joe Douglas’ thumbs if we’re needlessly adding on to the level of difficulty.

It's weird that the only real reason you truly like Gase is because he ousted Mac, yet you have zero confidence in Joe Douglas to do something that is literally a walk in the park for a below average GM in this league. 

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

This is cute considering the constant cry you used to make about Tanny/Rex not being able to draft pro-bowlers.  And I thought when dudes who made the probowl by name got in we used allpro as the true test...but Idk man, it's hard to follow the ever changing narratives. 

The Pro Bowl is more legitimate than the AP All Pro team, and the Pro Bowl is less legitimate than the Nickelodeon Kid’s Choice awards 

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18 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's weird that the only real reason you truly like Gase is because he ousted Mac, yet you have zero confidence in Joe Douglas to do something that is literally a walk in the park for a below average GM in this league. 

I just think Douglas can get there faster by trading Jamal and using those resources elsewhere

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Just now, T0mShane said:

I just think Douglas can get there faster by trading Jamal and using those resources elsewhere

also i wonder if douglas' comment in his post season presser of having the best culture in sports means they're going to try and trade adams.  his value will never be higher and as soon as something doesn't go his way he pouts on social media like a shunned puppy.

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6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Even if he just wants to be the top safety, that's too much.  Jamal Adams doesn't do anything that merits 15M per.  We have 3 years of evidence to support this.

As his play has gotten better the defense has gotten better.

We were top ten this year, his best year

Yet we have evidence to support the idea that he does nothing for the team.

 

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40 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He is not a terrible player, the value of his position and how he is used is terrible.

Positions I would rather have an all pro player than SS:

QB

OT

OG

Center

TE

WR

RB

CB

PASS RUSHER

And in who's world does it say you cant have any of the others because you have a really good S?

Amazing excuses.  Did Pitt have a solid, loaded D and Palomala?

Did the Ravens have one of the greatest LBs and others along with Reed?

But we cant start with what we have 

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10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I just think Douglas can get there faster by trading Jamal and using those resources elsewhere

Potentially.  Definitely not guaranteed.  And as I've said, I see the merit and get it.  I'm a draftnik and the thought of more picks excites me.  I'd support it if it happened but if Douglas is good, he can easily fit Jamal into the rebuild.  Easily.  Again; 80 mil in cap space after cutting Johnson, Winters, Williamson and with 4 picks in the top 80, if you put me in that draft room right now, not seeing combine, I guarantee you I can put together a 4 round haul of immediate starters/contributors addressing OLx2, WRx2 and RB, this draft is that deep.

Hit there and resign; Adams, Poole, Jenkins and bring back Gregg Williams and the D will be just fine.  Hell, you might even have enough money leftover to go find a pass rusher or corner. 

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

Potentially.  Definitely not guaranteed.  And as I've said, I see the merit and get it.  I'm a draftnik and the thought of more picks excites me.  I'd support it if it happened but if Douglas is good, he can easily fit Jamal into the rebuild.  Easily.  Again; 80 mil in cap space after cutting Johnson, Winters, Williamson and with 4 picks in the top 80, if you put me in that draft room right now, not seeing combine, I guarantee you I can put together a 4 round haul of immediate starters/contributors addressing OLx2, WRx2 and RB, this draft is that deep.

Hit there and resign; Adams, Poole, Jenkins and bring back Gregg Williams and the D will be just fine.  Hell, you might even have enough money leftover to go find a pass rusher.

adams has value, but whether he stays a jet will ultimately come down to what douglas can sign him for.  i think they try to keep him.  i really do.  but if adams wants jj watt money, if he wants franchise qb money (and his whining about his trade value this year suggests he could negotiate as such), then he's gone.  douglas does not seem like the gm who caves to what revis or adams will demand.

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Sunce there is nobody else worth payong that money to on D, I have no problem paying it to him

You don't pay Jamal big money because of a lack of good players.  

We already paid CJ Mosley QB money.  We can't afford to double down on defensive players at non-impact positions.  

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

You obviously don't  understand the position. A S blitzing is situational. If the guy he is supposed to cover (RB or TE) is staying in and blocking, how does that create a hole if he blitzed. There is much more risk on DB blitz where you have to hope the DB has clear path and gets on the QB so quickly he has no time to get the pass to the WR he just turned loose. There is no hole if Adams is taking the TE or RB and he stays in to block. 

And what if the RB/TE goes out on a route and he blitzes anyways?

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2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

At what cost/benefit to the rest of the defense though?

Probably not much. What elite CB or edge or WR is magically hitting the market? Reality is the Jets had to gamble and overpay for a guy like Trumaine Johnson because that's the stuff that's usually in FA at the top tier positions. Take your pick, pay guys like that guy or pay Adams. If the Jets are ever going to solve their skill position problems it's going to have to be through the draft not FA.

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Nobody has control of that except Adams and there is no indication that he is going to hold out. All you are doing is stating something you personally hope he is going to do because you hate the guy and want to be justified. 

I don't want him to hold out, because that will reduce his trade value.  

Nothing about his personality suggests it would be a surprise if he holds out.  He's about to only make $3M and this is the first year where he'll be able to hold out.   Meanwhile, he stated himself he puts himself on the level of Aaron Donald.  

And as Shane pointed out, two different journalists have brought it up as well.  

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5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

adams has value, but whether he stays a jet will ultimately come down to what douglas can sign him for.  i think they try to keep him.  i really do.  but if adams wants jj watt money, if he wants franchise qb money (and his whining about his trade value this year suggests he could negotiate as such), then he's gone.  douglas does not seem like the gm who caves to what revis or adams will demand.

Agreed.  I think Jackson set the market at 15mil today.  That's very expensive but as I've shown early in the thread, playoff teams are investing in players that arent as good as Jamal a that position (7 of the 10 highest paid safeties are going to the playoffs).  So it's a decision that Joe will have to really consider. 

If I was Joe, I'd do this; since Jamal is under contract and they do have the money to spend; I'd pursue pass rushers and a few top end OL FA's.  While I'm confident in what's in the draft, it's nice to have some flexibility.  I'd be willing to spend handsomely for those types of free agents.  If Joe is not capable of attracting them to the Jets, then I begin contract extension negotiations with Jamal.  If he starts to hold out, I'd let teams know we are open for business.  I dont think trading Jamal for the 20th+ overall pick is that valuable.  I'd want top 15 range and more.  Otherwise, I'm trying to come to terms in the process because it's money well spent on a team desperate for top end talent. 

 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No, they don't HAVE to pay a big chunk of money to one player.  We already did that with CJ Mosley.  You don't just pay a player just do it and/or just because of a lack of talent.  That's how you just create more problems.

Pay a fair chunk to Jordan Jenkins and call it a day when it comes to re-signing our own.  This roster needs a LOT of new faces.  

Money isn't the only resource at stake. The difference is Mosley was a FA. Adams was drafted. The Jets strategy of using top picks on guys for one contract has worked out pretty horribly thus far. Trade or let Adams go and you still have to replace him.

And to be clear I have absolutely no idea what they should do. But it's definitely not as simple as some think it is. He's already been drafted, so the question of if the safety is worth it died a long time ago.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

 So they could easily sign OL in FA and draft 2 more as well.  

Right.  Because the FA market always yields high quality OL.  Just like last year when we had the most cap space in the league and ended up signing *** checks notes ***  .....  nobody until Douglas arrived.

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Just now, JiF said:

Agreed.  I think Jackson set the market at 15mil today.  That's very expensive but as I've shown early in the thread, playoff teams are investing in players that arent as good as Jamal a that position (7 of the 10 highest paid safeties are going to the playoffs).  So it's a decision that Joe will have to really consider. 

If I was Joe, I'd do this; since Jamal is under contract and they do have the money to spend; I'd pursue pass rushers and a few top end OL FA's.  While I'm confident in what's in the draft, it's nice to have some flexibility.  I'd be willing to spend handsomely for those types of free agents.  If Joe is not capable of attracting them to the Jets, then I begin contract extension negotiations with Jamal.  If he starts to hold out, I'd let teams know we are open for business.  I dont think trading Jamal for the 20th+ overall pick is that valuable.  I'd want top 15 range and more.  Otherwise, I'm trying to come to terms in the process because it's money well spent on a team desperate for top end talent. 

 

early takes on the 2020 draft are that you can get quality starting OL and good wr prospects in the 15-20 range.  

if the jets don't trade adams they're likely taking an OL at 11, and one will be there for the taking.

if they trade adams and have an extra pick, they can take someone like lamb at 11 and still get a starting tackle.  that would be the main reason to trade adams - you transform the offense instantly.

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2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Money isn't the only resource at stake. The difference is Mosley was a FA. Adams was drafted. The Jets strategy of using top picks on guys for one contract has worked out pretty horribly thus far. Trade or let Adams go and you still have to replace him.

They can replace him with a cheap option at Safety and it wouldn't make much difference.  We're not replacing Adams with another high pick.  

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

They can replace him with a cheap option at Safety and it wouldn't make much difference.  We're not replacing Adams with another high pick.  

I'm not talking about the position I'm talking about the impact on the defense. Like it or not (and I do not like Adams at all) it's hard to interpret the numbers as any other way than he had a huge impact on their success this year.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Right.  Because the FA market always yields high quality OL.  Just like last year when we had the most cap space in the league and ended up signing *** checks notes ***  .....  nobody until Douglas arrived.

Legit have no clue what your point is here.  Taking your daily stab at Big Mac?  lol

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Legit have no clue what your point is here.  Taking your daily stab at Big Mac?  lol

Macc sucked, but the OL FA market was also dry last year, much like it is every year.  Our options at C, where we desperately needed an upgrade, were Paradis (who ended up having a terrible season), and Mitch Morse, who had concussion concerns.  

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4 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I'm not talking about the position I'm talking about the impact on the defense. Like it or not (and I do not like Adams at all) it's hard to interpret the numbers as any other way than he had a huge impact on their success this year.

But the defense still wasn't successful.  Per DVOA we had the # 18 pass defense in the league.

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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

early takes on the 2020 draft are that you can get quality starting OL and good wr prospects in the 15-20 range.  

if the jets don't trade adams they're likely taking an OL at 11, and one will be there for the taking.

if they trade adams and have an extra pick, they can take someone like lamb at 11 and still get a starting tackle.  that would be the main reason to trade adams - you transform the offense instantly.

I'm fully aware of the rationale behind the trade.  I think I've mentioned that numerous times over.  My point has been, this draft is extremely deep and there are starters to be had at WR/RB/OL going into the 4th round and the Jets have 80 mil in cap space.  If Douglas is good, he doesnt need the extra pick while retaining the best player on his Football team. That's my whole point because people are making it out like he cant do both and it's simply not true.

Here's the other rub, if you trade Jamal Adams, it creates a need.  You have to replace Jamal Adams.  I know it's fun to think that's is easy but it's really not.  He's more than just a run stopper these days.  He's an all levels of the field impact player who you literally have to take account for on every single snap and that is a very rare weapon to have. 

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11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But the defense still wasn't successful.  Per DVOA we had the # 18 pass defense in the league.

So this is where I think people misinterpret numbers like DVOA when it comes to individuals units, particularly on the defensive side. Cross-referencing with the raw data and his PFF numbers can be really useful in instances like this. To contextualize things here, the defense ranked 18th against the pass despite the DL ranking 26th in pass rushing and makeshift corners all year; only one guy on the team had more than one pick. They had two guys that managed over 5 sacks on the year and funnily enough one of those guys was Adams. Throw in the fact that as per PFF Adams is the only defensive back in the league that was top ten in coverage, against the run, as a pass rusher, and as a tackler. Without Adams it's safe to say the Jets' pass D would have been close to if not the bottom of the league, thus certainly not being top 10 in WEI, which is what matters most. The only possible way to interpret the data is that the reasons the Jets D finished top 10 was 1. The run defense and 2. Adams.

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Macc sucked, but the OL FA market was also dry last year, much like it is every year.  Our options at C, where we desperately needed an upgrade, were Paradis (who ended up having a terrible season), and Mitch Morse, who had concussion concerns.  

Still not getting your point, I proposed drafting 2 OL and finding 1 in FA.   It's not impossible to find a starter in FA, quite easy actually.   Just because those 2 crowd favorites crashed and burned, doesnt mean other signings didnt work out.  I've done this before and shown the deep list of good to great OL that hit the market each offseason, so I'm not going there again but you were literally drooling over every prospect and freaked out with joy over Kalil.   lol

There will be options like every offseason, you just cant Macc them up. 

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23 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Probably not much. What elite CB or edge or WR is magically hitting the market? Reality is the Jets had to gamble and overpay for a guy like Trumaine Johnson because that's the stuff that's usually in FA at the top tier positions. Take your pick, pay guys like that guy or pay Adams. If the Jets are ever going to solve their skill position problems it's going to have to be through the draft not FA.

I mean as far as using a safety as a linebacker, rather than a DB.

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Just now, TeddEY said:

I mean as far as using a safety as a linebacker, rather than a DB.

Right but the thing is it works. Adams is awesome and the Jets using him like they do works well. Going strictly by the numbers the Jets' D is probably one reliable CB away from being a top 6-7 unit per the numbers and the main reason for that is Adams.

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