Just who the hell is a GASE PLAYER on offense?

[Alentador31]

I am not sure but if you guys are interested you should pick up the book: Caponomics: Building Superbowl Champions, by Zach Moore (writer from overthecap). It breaks down how the most consistent teams have a system that the GM & Coach agree on. They breakdown how the Pats are able to do this. They literally have very detailed job descriptions for each position with a value system. It is a pretty interesting read and sheds light on why so many teams (ours included) seem to be just turning their wheels and going nowhere. You do NOT adjust your system to players.

You have to be patient and find the right players for your system. When you adapt your system to players, you have short bursts of immediate success (like almost every new coach we have had lately besides Gase) until they ultimately fizzle out. Not saying Gase is going to turn this around but you gotta give him a chance to build out his system with Douglas. 

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This is actually a great question because player fit in a particular scheme can be more important than overall talent.  I watched this team all season and tried to figure out what Gase is all about and what his “philosophy” is.  His run game seems very simplistic and easy to defend.  Maybe it’s because he doesn’t have a RB that can take it outside the tackles, but everything he does is between the tackles.  His play call sequences are puzzling outside of the first drive of the game that he scripts.  I’m sure the limitations on the roster have a lot to do with this, but I wasn’t impressed with year one as a play caller.  

His play calling in 2019 was an abomination.  For an "offensive" mind, he is very unimaginative and predictable.  

[Barry McCockinner]

Whatever it is, and I agree it's a mystery, the Jets shouldn't waste any resources trying to appease Gase. He'll be gone after next season. Douglas should just build the offensive line and team up as he see's best. Hopefully the next guy inherits a more well structured roster.

[greenwichjetfan]

 

5 minutes ago, rangerous said:

you know better than that.  this stuff can be spinned any way anyone wants.  there are lots of reasons why this guy is good with this team and bad with another team.  as i said, the actual miami games would have to be viewed to see what routes parker was being asked to run and if he was getting open.  if parker was open then it's up to the qb to get him the ball.  from what i can tell during this past jet season, the receivers were getting open.  that means gase's plays were going to work.  even darnold was impressed with the offensive schemes early on (i believe the word he used was unstoppable).  he was looking forward to hooking up with herndon.  and, frankly, i don't really care what fans thinks about gase as long as he and darnold and the rest of the team are on the same page.  the last 8 games show that even with marginal personnel the offense worked.

Oh my.

5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I watched this team all season and tried to figure out what Gase is all about and what his “philosophy” is.  His run game seems very simplistic and easy to defend.  Maybe it’s because he doesn’t have a RB that can take it outside the tackles, but everything he does is between the tackles.

Maybe he can target that speedy guy Drake from Arizona!

[Dcat]

Just now, greenwichjetfan said:

 

Oh my.

Maybe he can target that speedy guy Drake from Arizona!

I'll take Parker too.

[RoadFan]

13 minutes ago, Alentador31 said:

I am not sure but if you guys are interested you should pick up the book: Caponomics: Building Superbowl Champions, by Zach Moore (writer from overthecap). It breaks down how the most consistent teams have a system that the GM & Coach agree on. They breakdown how the Pats are able to do this. They literally have very detailed job descriptions for each position with a value system. It is a pretty interesting read and sheds light on why so many teams (ours included) seem to be just turning their wheels and going nowhere. You do NOT adjust your system to players.

You have to be patient and find the right players for your system. When you adapt your system to players, you have short bursts of immediate success (like almost every new coach we have had lately besides Gase) until they ultimately fizzle out. Not saying Gase is going to turn this around but you gotta give him a chance to build out his system with Douglas. 

Interesting...

[kdels62]

I think Gase relies on analytics a lot. The low risk high reward draws on 2nd and long and his descriptions of what he wants from players indicate that. I think if you’re looking for his ideal players look at his Denver team. Physical YAC guy, dynamic slot guy, big tight end, complimentary backs.

[Paradis]

9 hours ago, Prestige Worldwide said:

Crowder has missed 8 games in 5 years. 7 of them in 2018. I would hardly consider that as "always hurt". 

But I do agree that he is scheme independent.

Yeah but he had a lot of nicks and bruises along the way. I only know that because I owned him in fantasy a couple times and he had a lot of Q tags, was never playing at 100%. But it’s Washington, so who the hell knows

[EdReed22]

Need to replace all the olinemene and wrs. Crowder always gets nicked up easily. Robbie nut in the police officers wife's eyes Anderson is a one trick pony. Enumwa is always injured. Demarius is old on last legs and besides that we have nothing.

[playtowinthegame]

14 hours ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

Someone who won't question his all powerful play calling.

 

Enough! Pass that.

[Jackie Treehorn]

I would say it is harsh on Gase to compare him with the present Dolphins offense featuring future HoF QB Fitzmagic. Gase never had a superstar QB while coaching the Dolphins. 

[slats]

16 hours ago, Paradis said:

Genuine question for you Gase lovers...

How many "Gase lovers," do we actually have here? Two? Two and a half? 

I mean I know the two can be world class trolls when they want to be, and are certainly vocal, but that's about the size of that contingent. Much larger group of Gase haters here. And then you have what I think are the majority of us: people just recognizing that Gase is coming back, and hoping for the best however skeptical. 

But a few of you are throwing around this "Gase lover" thing, and it's just ridiculous.  

[Chrebetfan80]

5 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Explain Davante Parker.

i mean the weight is a little off but parker is 6'3 205 and thomas is listed at 6'3 230. its not a HUGE difference in size. its not like we're talking Thomas and Jakeem Grant. 

[Chrebetfan80]

17 hours ago, Paradis said:

Genuine question for you Gase lovers... Who exactly are we supposed to targeting for "his system..."? 

Every player he coached in MIA got better when left. Tannehill, Drake, Parker - you name them. They played better in another system under another OC. In fact, most of our offensive players outside of Crowder (who lets be honest, is scheme proof) did worse under Gase. 

So who the hell are the Jets supposed to be targeting that will be a "playmaker" under Gase? Dead serious... Who is a "Gase Running Back"... Or WR... or anything? 

I need to know for my mocks  

crafty.... lol 

To answer your question.. I dont think there are "gase guys" Just players that fit what the basics of his offensive philosophy is.  Fast Wr's that can get Yards after the catch, especially since he likes to use a lot of deep crossing routes, so in order to do that you need speed.  Hence why when things started breaking down with the line later in the season you saw robbie go from "taking the top off" routes to Deep/intermediate crossing routes trying to get him across formations with his speed in order to run after catch. 

In terms of lineman, he likes an inside zone scheme so for that you need quick athletic lineman.  Thats why as much as i liked the KO trade, it didnt make sense for what we were trying to do here in the run game, espeically once we signed bell. 

 

RB's i just dont think he cares about, i think he'll literally play anyone back there that can get 5 yards on a zone run. He wants to throw the ball.  Thats my biggest criticism of his play calling and offensive structuring is a lack of creativity in the run game and how he builds his play action packages off of that.  (this is all for another thread though). 

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, GreenFish said:

A friend of mine (Mannish) who knows Gase asked Gase this question. Gase responded by saying ask Joe Douglas. He’s the personnel guy.

All kidding aside. I don’t think it’s clear because Gase is so cryptic. What is Gase’s offense? My gut tells me he wants YAC guys. I think he wants to run plays with a lot option routes which means he needs smart receivers. Spit balling here though.

Predictable jokes about past Jets coaches aside, really which coaches want don't want YAC guys or smart receivers at the WR/TE positions?

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, slats said:

How many "Gase lovers," do we actually have here? Two? Two and a half? 

I mean I know the two can be world class trolls when they want to be, and are certainly vocal, but that's about the size of that contingent. Much larger group of Gase haters here. And then you have what I think are the majority of us: people just recognizing that Gase is coming back, and hoping for the best however skeptical. 

But a few of you are throwing around this "Gase lover" thing, and it's just ridiculous.  

good point, though as someone who's not a moderator and not tasked with keeping tabs on material -- it seems like there's more than a couple making excuses for him... 

The question stands though -- just who is a Gase player. Who is someone that is an ideal fit for his system/offense? I don't know the answer to that... there appears to be a contradiction for every suggestion. 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Dcat said:

the whole point is that every single one of them... Gesicki, Parker, Tannyhill, Drake  blossomed only after their divorce from Gase.  You are finding excuses for it.  If Drake got more carries, then why didn't gase give him more carries (as he obviously should have and after Miami fans were screaming for him to do that last year to no avail)?  SO Gase didn't want the competetion thing?  Or couldn't tell what he had?  If so, then that is very bad Head Coaching.  Why couldn't Parker blossom at all under Gase only to turn into a top 5 WR now?  Please.  It's neither coincidence nor attributable to a non-HC decision to keep the player away from the ball.  The way in which people here ignore or excuse this is alarming.    

Actually saying Tannehill was on one leg, missed most of his games isn’t an excuse.  It’s just the way it was.  And are we comparing the talent in Miami to Tennessee?  Drake was just coming on, split carries with a back who put up good or better numbers.  So?  
Even still the biggest falloff has been Landry.  
The whole they all blossomed when they went to better, winning teams is pretty self explanatory 

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Predictable jokes about past Jets coaches aside, really which coaches want don't want YAC guys or smart receivers at the WR/TE positions?

I honestly dont think that is what Morton or Bates wanted.  That is not a predictable joke about past Jets  coaches.  They wanted a run game with xhunk plays through "air yards".  That us what Anderson excels at.  

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Tannehill was hurt more than he was healthy and that sure had to influence Parker.  

I think we can make a strong argument that Landry has not been better in Cleveland.  Ajayi is doing what since being dumped?  And how is Drake better, getting more carries?  Thats a competition thing, isn't it?

 

Well i don't know if that debunks the capital question/concern

• Tannehill has been unequivocally more effective in TEN... that's not a hill you want to die on. 
• Drake has some big games, but was inexplicably taking off the field for eons at a time... ARZ is using him more effectively/consistently.
• Ajayi's career has always been about his degenerative Knee disorder. 
• Landry?... he might be the only consistent producer in that offense and he was let go. Inexplicably... So the ONLY guy who put up numbers under Gase was allowed to walk... that says everything. 

[Claymation]

6 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Explain Davante Parker.

1st season where he played a full season and was playing for a contract.

[Paradis]

Gase had 3 seasons to mold the team to his system.

Instead, players got worse and the talent on the roster plummeted. 

Explain. 

[Paradis]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Predictable jokes about past Jets coaches aside, really which coaches want don't want YAC guys or smart receivers at the WR/TE positions?

 

13 hours ago, GreenFish said:

 My gut tells me he wants YAC guys. I think he wants to run plays with a lot option routes which means he needs smart receivers. Spit balling here though.

Lets go with this... 

So his system values YAC players, especially through the air... Like Crowder for example... 

He had one the best in the league with Jarvis Landry. That guy somehow threw up numbers in CLE this year which is the equivalent of surviving a rush attack in WWI... So Gase had his "Scheme Diamond" in Landry -- and what did he do? Pissed him off and send him packing

Awesome. 

[Sperm Edwards]

45 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I honestly dont think that is what Morton or Bates wanted.  That is not a predictable joke about past Jets  coaches.  They wanted a run game with xhunk plays through "air yards".  That us what Anderson excels at.  

Regardless, that doesn't mean they didn't want their receivers to gain YAC, nor does it mean they wanted their receivers to be stupid. Even coaches that like a conservative offense - even maddeningly conservative ones - enjoy it when the team scores points or just a big gainer on offense. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Regardless, that doesn't mean they didn't want their receivers to gain YAC, nor does it mean they wanted their receivers to be stupid. Even coaches that like a conservative offense - even maddeningly conservative ones - enjoy it when the team scores points or just a big gainer on offense. 

It is a matter of priorities.  I am sure8 Gase would like more air yards too

[Jet Nut]

48 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Well i don't know if that debunks the capital question/concern

• Tannehill has been unequivocally more effective in TEN... that's not a hill you want to die on. 
• Drake has some big games, but was inexplicably taking off the field for eons at a time... ARZ is using him more effectively/consistently.
• Ajayi's career has always been about his degenerative Knee disorder. 
• Landry?... he might be the only consistent producer in that offense and he was let go. Inexplicably... So the ONLY guy who put up numbers under Gase was allowed to walk... that says everything. 

Landry was let go inexplicably?  He wanted big bucks, went to Cleveland, became the highest paid WR and fell off a cliff.   

Im not making excuses for Gase but that  Drake had to share reps with a HOF RB and that Tannehill healed on a much better team is just that.  

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is a matter of priorities.  I am sure8 Gase would like more air yards too

I'd classify that as more deep threat receivers than more YAC receivers. Everyone likes yards after the catch, even from their possession receivers running shorter routes.

YAC is more about creating separation than merely possessing pure straight-line speed anyway, no? Who doesn't like that?

• The league leader in YAC is Christian McCaffrey (1016).
• Number 2 is Ekeler (940).
• Number 3 - a very distant 3rd at that - is Kittle (602). 

Guys averaging 15+ypr who compiled even half the league leader's YAC is Godwin and... Godwin. That's it. 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but yards of air doesn't equal YAC. If he likes yards of air, that's different, and would suggest he is less interested in possession receivers running shorter routes.

Yet the team turned down a mid-round pick for another half-season of Anderson - the only deep threat on the team who's a legitimate starter - before he earns his UFA stripes, and the only serious receiver pickup in 2019 was Crowder. Was the Crowder pickup more Macc or more Gase? I don't know, and since Crowder has looked good I doubt you'll hear grumblings from Gase about how he never really wanted Crowder in the first place. 

[Paradis]

38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Landry was let go inexplicably?  He wanted big bucks, went to Cleveland, became the highest paid WR and fell off a cliff.   

Im not making excuses for Gase but that  Drake had to share reps with a HOF RB and that Tannehill healed on a much better team is just that.  

How do you figure he fell off a cliff? He led the team in receiving this year, he should get the Nobel peace prize for that  

let’s try this a different way. Tell me who you think is a good fit in his system. The players in Miami have done better without him

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

How do you figure he fell off a cliff? He led the team in receiving this year, he should get the Nobel peace prize for that  

let’s try this a different way. Tell me who you think is a good fit in his system. The players in Miami have done better without him

didn't he hate parker at miami too?

i wonder if gase is just an egomaniac who thinks the offensive skill positions are interchangeable b/c he will mold darnold to be the next peyton and his new gm will give him an OL.  it may not go much further than this.

[BornJetsFan1983]

6 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

6’3, 209llbs, 4.45 40. Drafted 14th overall.

Finished rookie season strong with 3 TDs and ~21 Y/R in final 6 games under Philbin. 

Next 39 games under Gase (24 with Tannehill), totals 6 TDs and ~13 Y/R.

Last 16 games under Flores (Defensive guy) with Rosen and Fitzmagic throwing him the ball: 9 TDs and ~17 Y/R.

But yea, let’s blame Jarvis Landry and Jay Ajai.

 

Shall I do Tannehill next?

please do. these gase supporters bend over backward to rationalize gase terrible coaching and play calling, but somehow miss the most obvious, Everyone gets worse when gase is in charge, he doesnt know how to use players talents, which is why every one get better when he leaves.

And the worse part is it is not hard to see. I mean look at our team, first thing he does is not run Bell hard, not let sam use his streghth with roll outs  or even give him extra protection in either personnel or scheme.

Its silly. Gase give us the worst off in the league and we got people telling us this piss is water, fdrink up. 

Crazy.

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

the whole point is that every single one of them... Gesicki, Parker, Tannyhill, Drake  blossomed only after their divorce from Gase.  You are finding excuses for it.  If Drake got more carries, then why didn't gase give him more carries (as he obviously should have and after Miami fans were screaming for him to do that last year to no avail)?  SO Gase didn't want the competetion thing?  Or couldn't tell what he had?  If so, then that is very bad Head Coaching.  Why couldn't Parker blossom at all under Gase only to turn into a top 5 WR now?  Please.  It's neither coincidence nor attributable to a non-HC decision to keep the player away from the ball.  The way in which people here ignore or excuse this is alarming.    

And again my point is that not all of them blossomed because of Gase.  Tannehill doesn't play because hes injured Parker does better when hes not with Cutler or Osweiller.  Drake finally is out of the shadow of a productive HOF back.  Landry is worse off and that's ignored. 

Thats all I'm saying, have to look a little deeper than we hate Gase so...

[UntouchableCrew]

I'd bet the company line would be smart, hard-working, well rounded guys who are team first and buy in.

In actuality I have no idea.

[Paradis]

26 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

didn't he hate parker at miami too?

i wonder if gase is just an egomaniac who thinks the offensive skill positions are interchangeable b/c he will mold darnold to be the next peyton and his new gm will give him an OL.  it may not go much further than this.

I honestly really don’t know. Any theory one can come up with — there’s something substantial that contradicts that idea.
The only thing I’m sure of is that Gase is a control freak. Which isn’t necessarily the worst thing in the world, but he’s wearing two hats right now and it’s not working in my opinion

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

I honestly really don’t know. Any theory one can come up with — there’s something substantial that contradicts that idea.
The only thing I’m sure of is that Gase is a control freak. Which isn’t necessarily the worst thing in the world, but he’s wearing two hats right now and it’s not working in my opinion

and he's admitted that his playcalling has been bad at times too, which is consistent with your post. 

i just hope they really address the OL and get another rb so they can have a real running game and a dump off option, b/c that's what's missing.  darnold can create and make average wrs look good but they need a rb who can get to 2nd and 5 rather than 2nd and 9.

[pdxgreen]

SAM DARNOLD,TOP TEN QUARTERBACK FOR THE LAST EIGHT WEEKS!  ADAM GASE KINDA GUY!

See! Just have to look hard enough!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dcat]

25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And again my point is that not all of them blossomed because of Gase.  Tannehill doesn't play because hes injured Parker does better when hes not with Cutler or Osweiller.  Drake finally is out of the shadow of a productive HOF back.  Landry is worse off and that's ignored. 

Thats all I'm saying, have to look a little deeper than we hate Gase so...

Its funny you mention Landry. No player in the NFL despises Gase as much as him. And his numbers this year were solid right in the range when he had Tannehill. His regression, if any,  is 100% Baker Mayfield.

Now why does Landry despise Gase?  Gase booted him despite his talent. D idnt like him.