Bears sign S Eddie Jackson to 4-year, $58.4M extension [MERGED]

[Lupz27]

5 hours ago, choon328 said:

We'll see very quickly if the Jets intend to keep Adams.  Thr blueprint for a new contract has now been created with the Jackson deal. 

Problem is he isn’t better then Jackson, and will be butt hurt by any offer that isn’t significantly better.  Adams biggest issue is how much of a baby he is, and takes EVERYTHING personal like an ex Giant who got himself shipped out.

[Jetpain]

Another team picked a good safety in round 4 ??  I thought they could only be picked in round 1

[HawkeyeJet]

2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

There’s safeties that play like CBs and safeties that play like LBs. The ones that play like CBs are more valuable.  

How valuable are the  ones that play the run and rush the passer like linebackers and allow a passer rating of 80 when targeted, which is better than say a FS who plays like a CB?  How valuable are those guys?

[New York Mick]

3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

How valuable are the  ones that play the run and rush the passer like linebackers and allow a passer rating of 80 when targeted, which is better than say a FS who plays like a CB?  How valuable are those guys?

Who allows an 80 rating when targeted?

[bealeb319]

The last time we had a guy as talented as Adams he got hurt and then trades away. The return on that trade ended up translating into garbage for us. The flip side of that coin is that the player we traded though never the same as he was went on to win a Superbowl with our biggest division rival before our owner demanded we get him back. Moral of the story is pay Adams let his love for the NY Jets never falter.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[HawkeyeJet]

5 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Who allows an 80 rating when targeted?

Jamal Adams.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

57 minutes ago, Jetpain said:

Another team picked a good safety in round 4 ??  I thought they could only be picked in round 1

Contrary to popular belief. You can pick any position in any round. It’s wild. 

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Contrary to popular belief. You can pick any position in any round. It’s wild. 

True but it makes much less sense to pick some positions high than others.  (See Mike McCagnan)

[ZachEY]

52 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

How valuable are the  ones that play the run and rush the passer like linebackers and allow a passer rating of 80 when targeted, which is better than say a FS who plays like a CB?  How valuable are those guys?

My favorite thing about this passer rating thing is that a rating of 80 is being used to say Jamal Adams is awesome in coverage and a QB with a rating of 84.4 is also being called awesome.

[HawkeyeJet]

10 hours ago, TeddEY said:

My favorite thing about this passer rating thing is that a rating of 80 is being used to say Jamal Adams is awesome in coverage and a QB with a rating of 84.4 is also being called awesome.

The average QB rating for targeting safeties is 93 in case anyone is wondering.

No one cares though.  I get it.

[greenwave81]

10 hours ago, BCJet said:

Jackson just signed a 4 year $58 million extension with the Bears.  $14.6 yearly average and $33 guaranteed  

 Elite cover safety with a 10 career picks and 2 sacks. Was a steak as a 4th round pick after breaking his tibia at Bama. 

This is likely what Adams contract would be modeled on. 

If Jamal Adams would take a deal like this right now, that'd be great....but he won't.  He'd laugh at it.

A deal like that could be cut or traded in 2 years with little problem.

I have no animus towards Jamal, he's a damn good player...but I'm of the opinion that spending megabucks on a S when the team has so many holes right now isn't good business.

But for that deal for Jamal?  Sign me up.

But he ain't taking that.

 

[greenwave81]

1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

The last time we had a guy as talented as Adams he got hurt and then trades away. The return on that trade ended up translating into garbage for us. The flip side of that coin is that the player we traded though never the same as he was went on to win a Superbowl with our biggest division rival before our owner demanded we get him back. Moral of the story is pay Adams let his love for the NY Jets never falter.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

So...what does that tell us other than...like, nothing?

[bla bla bla]

1 minute ago, greenwave81 said:

If Jamal Adams would take a deal like this right now, that'd be great....but he won't.  He'd laugh at it.

A deal like that could be cut or traded in 2 years with little problem.

I have no animus towards Jamal, he's a damn good player...but I'm of the opinion that spending megabucks on a S when the team has so many holes right now isn't good business.

But for that deal for Jamal?  Sign me up.

But he ain't taking that.

 

Completely agree with you. Based on the guaranteed money it has me thinking this is a 2 year deal with a team option.

[Dcat]

7 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Landon Collins got 6 years $84m with $45m guaranteed. That will be what Jamal will be shooting for unless he wants a shorter deal to eventually sign another big contract.

Collins deal was a disaster before the ink dried.  

All that for a safety? Wow.  

As Tom Hagen said: "Can't do it Sally".

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

True but it makes much less sense to pick some positions high than others.  (See Mike McCagnan)

And he did it repeatedly.  Every frekin' year.  I'd like to spit in his coffee.  

 

[EdReed22]

14 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Interceptions are better than sacks. I'd rather have made in than this self announced loud mouth loser of an all pro safety. Your record says who you are. Jamal and the jets been sucking.

[EdReed22]

Jamal such a sensative b. He got oitran by Alex freaking Smith. 

[Jets0712]

The NY Jets wasted so much money on BUM JAG's over the years most recently Trumaine Johnson and some are against possibly paying the best defensive player to ever play for the NY Jets. 
Remember when we let James Farrior walk he was a stellar LB for the Steelers for years. 

Remember when we let an under appreciated 1 st team all pro lb go. Demario Davis. Grass ain’t always greener on other side


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetster]

6 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

If Jamal Adams would take a deal like this right now, that'd be great....but he won't.  He'd laugh at it.

A deal like that could be cut or traded in 2 years with little problem.

I have no animus towards Jamal, he's a damn good player...but I'm of the opinion that spending megabucks on a S when the team has so many holes right now isn't good business.

But for that deal for Jamal?  Sign me up.

But he ain't taking that.

 

I say you offer it because of the timing. If he laughs trade him to Dallas. A great team does not a safety make. Ed Reed was GREAT because he could cover a lot of ground. Jamal Adams will NEVER equal the interceptions of Reed or Pomulalu, or Sharper. We freaking have CJ Mosely to do the sh*t Adams was doing at the LOS. Where was the play we needed in the secondary from Adams when Josh Allen carved us up on three consecutive drives for a comeback win down 16-0 when Mosely was out. 

[Dunnie]

I say you offer it because of the timing. If he laughs trade him to Dallas. A great team does not a safety make. Ed Reed was GREAT because he could cover a lot of ground. Jamal Adams will NEVER equal the interceptions of Reed or Pomulalu, or Sharper. We freaking have CJ Mosely to do the sh*t Adams was doing at the LOS. Where was the play we needed in the secondary from Adams when Josh Allen carved us up on three consecutive drives for a comeback win down 16-0 when Mosely was out. 

Where was he ?? He was blowing the sh*t **** out of playa behind the line of scrimmage. Pay the man.

 

Secondaries consist of way more that SS play... Where was our FS or CBs against Josh Allen ??!!!

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[New York Mick]

8 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Jamal Adams.

I figured. He is a lot better at coverage then most of this board gives him credit for. 
 If they can sign him to a deal similar to Byrd’s I’m all for keeping him unless they can get a good trade deal for him. A defense with Adams, Mosley and a solid new ED and CB would be top five but the oline would still suck so he’d still be expendable unless JD can figure out how to sign Adams and find a OT, OC, OG, ED and CB in FA/draft. If he could do that I’d send him a hooker once a week for the rest of the year. 

[Jetster]

7 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I figured. He is a lot better at coverage then most of this board gives him credit for. 
 If they can sign him to a deal similar to Byrd’s I’m all for keeping him unless they can get a good trade deal for him. A defense with Adams, Mosley and a solid new ED and CB would be top five but the oline would still suck so he’d still be expendable unless JD can figure out how to sign Adams and find a OT, OC, OG, ED and CB in FA/draft. If he could do that I’d send him a hooker once a week for the rest of the year. 

What good is Jamal Adams if Sam Darnold is crumpled up on the ground injured. This is what fans can't see. If you could secure a LT & a Center you have to consider it. It would certainly speed up the process of protecting Sam & getting more weapons for him. We're not beating top teams in this league scoring 21 points. Look at the QBs in the playoffs, we either didn't play any of them or if we did, we lost. 

Brady, Watson, Tannyhill, Mahomes, Josh Allen (played a series), Jackson. 

[New York Mick]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

What good is Jamal Adams if Sam Darnold is crumpled up on the ground injured. This is what fans can't see. If you could secure a LT & a Center you have to consider it. It would certainly speed up the process of protecting Sam & getting more weapons for him. We're not beating top teams in this league scoring 21 points. Look at the QBs in the playoffs, we either didn't play any of them or if we did, we lost. 

Brady, Watson, Tannyhill, Mahomes, Josh Allen (played a series), Jackson. 

They’re lucky if they scored 21

[NYJ1]

If I were JD, I would approach Jamal and ask, "If I tear up your rookie deal and pay you RIGHT NOW, can I get a home town discount? If he says yes, I offer him 6 years 84 to 87 million. I think that would be a good way of avoiding a lot of nonsense later on. It would also let everyone on the team know that if you play your a$$ off like Jamal has you will be rewarded. I think that would be an excellent first major move for JD. A move of that magnitude would carry huge weight with the players.

[Jetster]

20 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

They’re lucky if they scored 21

Exactly. We scored 34 three weeks in a row & ran away with all 3. Much easier to play aggressive defense when your offense is scoring. Plus it forces opposing offenses to press when losing the field position game. 

When your down 10-0, and your backed up again, knowing that if you give a top offense the ball at the 50, bad sh*t happens. 

I want that kind of offense. I want guys like Jeudy, Lamb, or Higgins, RBs like Ettienne, or Dobbs, Herndon & Griffin back, Crowder would be even tougher to cover with help. And an Oline that can pass block or punch you in the face in the 4th quarter. 

Teams that score a Lot of points defenses aren't on the field as much, they have less snaps, less snaps in the NFL probably equates to less overall injuries. I want an offense that attacks after a TO, or can wear you down in the 4th running the ball, and has enough size at WR that they can post you up & play short yardage catch & beat you with a million small nicks. Guys that can make plays on their own in space at every level, RB, WR, TE. You put that kind of talent around Sam, plus you add his mobility for the occasional backbreaking QB run for a 1st down & you'd have a seriously confident Sam Darnold. We need to dictate, not have Sam worried he needs to bail out in 2 seconds. 

[BCJet]

8 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The average QB rating for targeting safeties us 93 in case anyone is wondering.

No one cares though.  I get it.

Michael Nania who does analytics for Ganggreennation had the following numbers on Jamal (includes his rank among other safeties)

Coverage:  2.9 YAC/reception (1st), 4.5 yards/target (2nd), yards per reception 7.5 (2nd) and yards per cover snap (.31) 2nd

Pass rush: 6.5 sacks (1st) and 23 pressures (1st)

Run defense:  3% missed tackle rate (2nd) and 7 tackles for loss (3rd)

Maybe you guys have different stats, but according to the above he is not bad in coverage, hes actually excellent, so what gives?

[Creepy Lurker]

8 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

If Jamal Adams would take a deal like this right now, that'd be great....but he won't.  He'd laugh at it.

A deal like that could be cut or traded in 2 years with little problem.

I have no animus towards Jamal, he's a damn good player...but I'm of the opinion that spending megabucks on a S when the team has so many holes right now isn't good business.

But for that deal for Jamal?  Sign me up.

But he ain't taking that.

 

Easily $16-$18mil is what I’m expecting him to look for. Trade him as long as you get at least a mid level first and 2 other top 100 picks. 

[HawkeyeJet]

25 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Michael Nania who does analytics for Ganggreennation had the following numbers on Jamal (includes his rank among other safeties)

Coverage:  2.9 YAC/reception (1st), 4.5 yards/target (2nd), yards per reception 7.5 (2nd) and yards per cover snap (.31) 2nd

Pass rush: 6.5 sacks (1st) and 23 pressures (1st)

Run defense:  3% missed tackle rate (2nd) and 7 tackles for loss (3rd)

Maybe you guys have different stats, but according to the above he is not bad in coverage, hes actually excellent, so what gives?

I've said Adams is excellent in coverage for two years now.  You don't have to sell me.

[sec101row23]

10 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

How valuable are the  ones that play the run and rush the passer like linebackers and allow a passer rating of 80 when targeted, which is better than say a FS who plays like a CB?  How valuable are those guys?

Ideally you like to have both of those guys and have a complimentary safety duo.  

[JustInFudge]

9 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The average QB rating for targeting safeties us 93 in case anyone is wondering.

No one cares though.  I get it.

Good stuff.  The mental gymnastics people are playing these days is weird, man. 

[sec101row23]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Good stuff.  The mental gymnastics people are playing these days is weird, man. 

Wait....mental gymnastics is my phrase, isn’t it?  ?

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Where was he ?? He was blowing the sh*t **** out of playa behind the line of scrimmage. Pay the man.

 

Secondaries consist of way more that SS play... Where was our FS or CBs against Josh Allen ??!!!

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

He was? Maybe my every-play memory is shaky, but the box score shows zero TFLs attributed to Adams that whole game. That’s zero blowing of anyone behind the LOS by President Manpurse. Combined with half the PDs racked up by a supposedly weaker-in-coverage ILB who missed half the game.
 

Is Adams worth $15MM/year?

• I don’t think so but at least it’s debatable. He’s a top safety and a couple top safeties got paid in this range.

Is Adams worth $15MM plus the high pick(s) - including another 1st rounder - that someone else will allegedly pony up?

• Not even close, given the far greater needs on this team. 
• Bad enough we used a high 1st rounder on him instead of a QB with 2 sitting right there. Don’t compound the foolishness by using yet another 1st rounder on that same box safety, plus a top UFA’s salary.
• Teams build top defenses every year without such disproportionate resource allocation to the SS position.
• Even the teams that (IMO foolishly) paid their safeties in this range weren’t dumb enough to also forgo an upcoming 1st rounder and more at the time.

[greenwichjetfan]

9 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The average QB rating for targeting safeties us 93 in case anyone is wondering.

No one cares though.  I get it.

You won’t get a response, but rest assured it’s because it’s been read and processed by those you were targeting. Good stuff. A 13 unit difference is certainly significant, regardless of which way you side on Jamal.

[HawkeyeJet]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

You won’t get a response, but rest assured it’s because it’s been read and processed by those you were targeting. Good stuff. A 13 unit difference is certainly significant, regardless of which way you side on Jamal.

For the record, I wasn't necessarily targeting anyone or trying to say "in your face".  I personally enjoy my interactions with a lot of folks who aren't high on Adams (or Darnold for that matter).

I just enjoy researching stuff like that when I have time and it's an interesting statistic I thought.  I think there are some Pro Adams people who probably didn't realize he's actually statistically very good in coverage.

[greenwichjetfan]

14 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

For the record, I wasn't necessarily targeting anyone or trying to say "in your face".  I personally enjoy my interactions with a lot of folks who aren't high on Adams (or Darnold for that matter).

I just enjoy researching stuff like that when I have time and it's an interesting statistic I thought.  I think there are some Pro Adams people who probably didn't realize he's actually statistically very good in coverage.

I meant “targeting” in the same way that you meant “no one cares, though. I get it.”

Anyway, the point is, your relative measure is solid. Comparing for and against ratings like EY did without relative marks is fruitless, as you’ve shown. If one doesn’t like Adams, that’s fine, but the fact remains. If nothing else, it’ll help covet a better return in a trade. 

edit: I also enjoy said interactions and like researching numbers and posting them knowing that the target audience won’t respond for same reasons. It’s why I post here!