Jump to content
Jetsfan80

The cap: We should be conservative this offseason

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, JiF said:

So your plan is to bring back the entire 2019 team, add no veteran talent, trade your best player and hope you hit on every pick in the draft? 

Great in theory, I guess but it seems like it’s putting a lot of eggs in one basket and much easier said then done.  You need is a balance of both, especially for a talent deprived team, the option is there for a reason, you just have to be wise and not sign known bums like Trumaine Johnson to ridiculous contracts. 

He must really believe JD is The One. I need proof he is indeed up to the task before agreeing that the way to go is trading/letting our talent walk just to give him a couple more dart throws in one draft.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, David Harris said:

I’d save Enough money to resign Jamal to a record breaking deal because he’s a culture changer

Culture like Boy George culture?
 

Walking around like Adonis when things are going your way but actually crying to the press when you’re butt hurt that your GM entertained an inquiry about you is not positive culture, sorry. And don’t act like he was posturing publicly for his contract like Robbie did..., Jerruh would gladly have thrown the world at him at the negotiating table. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, jgb said:

He must really believe JD is The One. I need proof he is indeed up to the task before agreeing that the way to go is trading/letting our talent walk just to give him a couple more dart throws in one draft.

I’m optimistic in Joe but we have nothing to suggest he’s going to be a beast in the draft.  We have no clue and the past few he’s been a part of don’t look to hot.  That said, this draft is deep and I think a damn near fool could hit on 3-4 starters at positions of needs for the Jets but you still have to look at where you can plug in some vets to give you flexibility and not depend on rookies to hit the ground running week 1.  Now I’m not advocating going hog wild in FA but you have to look at the market and see where it makes sense to invest in veteran talent you know can play. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’d gladly give up a 2021 3rd/4th rounder for Costanzo,Scherff,Cooper,Yannick or Dupree 100%. This offseason has blessed us with being full of the talent we need. Free agency has a few solid options for OL, There’s like 3 edge rushers and a ton of CBs.Then the draft is loaded with OL, WR and mid round Edge/CB talent.  We have to take advantage of it and spend on an Olineman and a Cb/Edge. Idk how anyone could be against signing any of the above especially after what we watched this year! 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, JiF said:

I’m optimistic in Joe but we have nothing to suggest he’s going to be a beast in the draft.  We have no clue and the past few he’s been a part of don’t look to hot.  That said, this draft is deep and I think a damn near fool could hit on 3-4 starters at positions of needs for the Jets but you still have to look at where you can plug in some vets to give you flexibility and not depend on rookies to hit the ground running week 1.  Now I’m not advocating going hog wild in FA but you have to look at the market and see where it makes sense to invest in veteran talent you know can play. 

I hope he is right about JD but my heart can no longer love anything about this team without empirical evidence 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yuck.  $33M+ per devoted to Mosley and Adams in the name of "culture"?  

That better be a damn amazing culture they're cultivating.  

the reality is mosley is already here and it's doubtful if they can trade adams for a boatload of draft picks.  they'd be lucky if they get the equivalent of his draft position.  the thing is, adams is a proven commodity but at a position that isn't valued so high.  but he does have some intangibles that need to be factored in.  the jets have, for a long time, little on field leadership.  maybe these early cost projections are also very high.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JiF said:

I’m optimistic in Joe but we have nothing to suggest he’s going to be a beast in the draft.  We have no clue and the past few he’s been a part of don’t look to hot.  That said, this draft is deep and I think a damn near fool could hit on 3-4 starters at positions of needs for the Jets but you still have to look at where you can plug in some vets to give you flexibility and not depend on rookies to hit the ground running week 1.  Now I’m not advocating going hog wild in FA but you have to look at the market and see where it makes sense to invest in veteran talent you know can play. 

This is really where he and I deviated as well. And not just week 1, but year 1. Especially at a generally slower-maturing position like WR where few rookies reach 800 yards, and like 1 guy every 3 years reaches 1000 (and you don’t know which one that’ll be until hindsight sets in); Michael Thomas was like the 6th WR taken in his draft class. That’s some confidence already that JD is so great that he not only knows which one is Michael Thomas II, but he’ll also find yet another instant rookie WR that Darnold can rely on to not rookie it up, that both of these guys will be available to the Jets, and be smart enough picks to bypass all other value pick positions at those points in the draft.

It’s never a good plan for the upcoming season to say, “We’ll just draft 2 WRs” and expect them to both perform right away as rookies. That’s year-2000 Bengals planning. And OK, then what about that OL? The OL where the plan not 1 week ago was to use 2-3 picks to fill because Darnold has no time or something.

You draft for the future, and if they pan out as rookies even better. But if they only pan out by years 2 and 3, with all the non-busts littered in every round that means you’re still doing it right as a GM. 

The team has starter holes on the OL (3 holes if you’re optimistic about Harrison/Edoga after cutting Winters, and more than if you’re not); at WR (2 holes to pair with Crowder); EDGE (we won’t upgrade by re-signing Jenkins, and he’s not signing a below-market deal for half what he’s likely to get), and they need a CB starter upgrade. 

All of the openings in each position aren’t filling with instant sure-starters in the draft (where JD is apparently supposed to head into the draft with these holes, just like no GM ever unless he’s tanking). You can’t expect to fill multiple instant-starters at the same position group all from the draft or all from FA. See, there are other teams who also want to upgrade their lines in FA, and we’re not getting the 2 least-stinky ones from 2019 to return for contracts that are millions less than they’ll easily get elsewhere. You have to find starters from both FAs and the draft when you’ve got holes, because - as you say - we don’t know JD’s talent in cherrypicking draft prospects, and even if he hits, which ones will show up big time as rookies, or which will be available at our picks.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Did either of you notice I have been advocating bringing back Jordan Jenkins and Brian Poole?  Does that not count for anything?

Just call me selective.  If he doesn't play a premium position, I don't want to pay him top of the market money.  

QB, LT, WR, EDGE, CB, the other OL spots....those are the positions I'm willing to pay big money IF we have someone worth paying.  We currently don't outside of perhaps Darnold in a couple years.

Spending just to spend is not a wise strategy.  

Interestingly I don't disagree.  I feel the exact same way in a general sense. There are players who rise above that occasionally though. In my opinion, Adams is absolutely in that category.  He is already a perennial probowler and MVP and has made 1st team all pro in his 3rd season. He is one season in with an actual DC and has already reached that lofty position of widely being considered the absolute best at his position in the league. Without his first injury of his entire football career he would most likely hold the all time sack record for a safety as well, but that can't be proven obviously. 

It's ok to disagree of course, but there is a lot of factual evidence stacking on the side of Adams being worth paying.  The weight of the argument against him is largely based in the draft position debate and that we passed on QB's to get him.  Ill advised but that's in the past. 

Anderson is another argument, but I'm also on the side of paying him too. He is a dynamic WR on the ascend that will be sought after this offseason.  The debate is pretty much revolving around $2-3 mil. People seem to be ok with $10 bt not 12-13.  Seems silly to me especially when home grown talent is so hard to come by for this team. 

I'm squarely on the pay Adams and Anderson train. And just to say it I'm in favor of Paying Jenkin and Poole too.  I'd chuck Tru, Winters, Roberts and maybe even Avery Williamson even though I like him. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My brother, unfortunately you’re going to be sorely disappointed that these are numbers that would hold water years ago.

I was purposefully under-estimating the cost to demonstrate that only an extreme optimist would suggest we'll still have $30M+ to play with after re-signing our own.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jgb said:

So trade away our only pro bowler and then be conservative in FA. What could go wrong?

8 hours ago, JiF said:

So your plan is to bring back the entire 2019 team, add no veteran talent, trade your best player and hope you hit on every pick in the draft? 

 

2nd or 3rd-tier FA's would be fine.  If we're going to let Robby walk we should at least TRY to get a compensatory pick back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

2nd or 3rd-tier FA's would be fine.  If we're going to let Robby walk we should at least TRY to get a compensatory pick back.

How many decades will this turnaround take?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, jgb said:

How many decades will this turnaround take?

Jets' fans insatiable desire to go 8-8 has played at least a small role in the Jets never rebuilding properly.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This plan sucks.

Admittedly I didnt read it but it's a safe bet based on op and title 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Another argument to NOT be conservative this offseason is there’s going to be a new CBA that will surely see the cap rise even further. The time to find players is before it goes up, not after. 

It goes without saying it depends on the player. A bad pickup is a bad pickup no matter how much the cap moves, of course.

This is true....

what may hurt FA this year because it’s final year of CBA teams are allowed both a franchise and transition tag usually its only one. teams can keep 2 players on expiring contracts using the tags.  Not many good OL will shake free 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, CTM said:

This plan sucks.

Admittedly I didnt read it but it's a safe bet based on op and title 

That's a shame.  It's all about binary code and bushy women.  

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's a shame.  It's all about binary code and bushy women.  

I like curves too

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/4/2020 at 2:02 PM, UntouchableCrew said:

Generally speaking spending big money in FA is always a mistake. Big UFA contracts rarely work out.

I'd still be willing to sign an OL though. We just desperately need to upgrade that position -- we should be targeting upgrades in the draft and in UFA.

OL please 2 or 3 would be nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Jets' fans insatiable desire to go 8-8 has played at least a small role in the Jets never rebuilding properly.  

lol that's true although not sure 5-11 gets us closer. We just have a different perspective. Lack of money/big contracts isn't what's holding us back IMHO. It's drafting like garbage and then losing out on FAs despite being high bidder. 

I guess in the end it all depends on drafting well. That much we probably all agree on.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, David Harris said:

I’d save Enough money to resign Jamal to a record breaking deal because he’s a culture changer and the rest I’d max out the cap on any OL improvements- don’t care about overpaying. And I’d draft nothing but OL as well.  
 

with Sam in a rookie deal and Greg Williams coaching up pedestrians to be decent I’d go all in on playoffs next year

They're almost going to have to from a realistic view of the FO & CS.

Gase needs to go to the playoffs next year to keep his job.  Williams really wants to put his stamp on this D.  He wants one more shot at a HC gig.  Making a big dent in the playoffs is the shortest road there.

OP is probably correct long term, but I think they're going balls to the wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Titan24 said:

This is true....

what may hurt FA this year because it’s final year of CBA teams are allowed both a franchise and transition tag usually its only one. teams can keep 2 players on expiring contracts using the tags.  Not many good OL will shake free 

Not many good OL shake free in general, and the ones that do shake free get multiple suitors that drive their contracts higher still. 

It’s a tax on the stupid, and we’ve been so stupid for so many years in a row we now have to pay this tax. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/4/2020 at 4:10 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

A lot of conjecture on this board has suggested we have tons of cap space, and thus can once again be big spenders like Macc was last offseason.  

I would argue the exact opposite.  Our cap space (currently $60M) will actually be fairly limited after re-signing our own, and there's not much reason to be aggressive spenders.  

Even after cutting the likes of Trumaine Johnson ($3M savings) and Brian Winters ($7.3M savings) that "only" takes us up to $70.5M in space.

Let's say we bring back the following players, and under-estimate a bit the amount of cap dollars devoted to each in 2020:

  • LT Kelvin Beachum:  $8M in 2020 cap number
  • OLB Jordan Jenkins:  $6M 
  • CB Brian Poole:  $5M
  • G Alex Lewis:  $3.5M
  • WR Demaryius Thomas:  $3M
  • ILB Neville Hewitt:  $3M
  • S Rontez Miles:  $2.5M
  • OLB Brandon Copeland:  $2.5M
  • P Lac Edwards:  $2M
  • RB Bilal Powell:  $1.5M
  • ILB James Burgess:  $1.5M

 

That would leave us with about $30-32M in cap space.  

Now let's factor in the compensatory pick for letting go of Robby Anderson.  Are overpaying any of the high-end potential UFA's below (positions of need only) worth giving up the late 3rd/4th in 2021?

  • WR Amari Cooper
  • WR AJ Green
  • WR Emmanuel Sanders
  • WR Randall Cobb
  • WR Devin Funchess
  • LT Andrew Whitworth
  • LT Anthony Costanzo
  • LT Greg Robinson
  • G Brandon Scherff
  • G Andrus Peat
  • G Darryl Williams
  • G Ereck Flowers
  • G Mike Iupati
  • G Kenny Wiggins
  • G Michael Schofield
  • C B.J. Finney
  • EDGE Jadeveon Clowney
  • EDGE Bud Dupree
  • EDGE Yannick Ngakoue
  • EDGE Dante Fowler
  • EDGE Ziggy Ansah
  • EDGE Robert Quinn
  • EDGE Shaq Lawson
  • EDGE Terrell Suggs
  • EDGE Michael Bennett
  • EDGE Jabaal Sheard
  • EDGE Jason Pierre-Paul
  • EDGE Bruce Irvin
  • EDGE Mario Addison
  • EDGE Vinny Curry
  • EDGE Markus Golden
  • EDGE Barkevious Mingo
  • CB Chris Harris
  • CB Jimmy Smith
  • CB Bradley Roby
  • CB Aqib Talib
  • CB Ronald Darby
  • CB Logan Ryan
  • CB Jonathan Joseph
  • CB Darqueze Dennard
  • CB Eli Apple
  • CB Jimmie Ward

 

Not a very inspiring list, even if one were to assume ALL of the above hit free agency.  Really the only one I would personally be interested in is Bud Dupree.  No other UFA would be worth giving up the compensatory pick.  

Thus, I think we should go bargain shopping in free agency this offseason.  There's no reason to spend "just to spend".  You end up with holes on your roster either way. 

Castanzo, Scherff, Peat, Williams, Dupree, Clowney, Lawson, Quinn, Golden, Fowler, Roby, Darby, Dennard, Ryan ... all worth bringing in, even if it ends up costing a comp pick.

Our window with a low-cost QB ends after next year.  If you rebuild the line and either edge or CB in FA (preferably edge, since they last longer) you can go WR in the 1st

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jgb said:

lol that's true although not sure 5-11 gets us closer. We just have a different perspective. Lack of money/big contracts isn't what's holding us back IMHO. It's drafting like garbage and then losing out on FAs despite being high bidder. 

I guess in the end it all depends on drafting well. That much we probably all agree on.

I posted a long list of bad contracts Macc signed too.  That doesn't help.  Because its not just the money you spend on them; it's that you pretty much have to commit to guys like that for a couple years to honor the sunken cost.  And simultaneously, that blocks the progress of any young talent you draft.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think the whole adams is a great leader is over blown, he is a great promoter.

T e a m. M. V. P

 

Spells L e a d e r.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

T e a m. M. V. P

 

Spells L e a d e r.

 

We'll see how Leadery McLeader he is when he wants to get paid.  

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

T e a m. M. V. P

 

Spells L e a d e r.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

No it sure does not.   Getting the most votes for something does not male you a good leader.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

No it sure does not.   Getting the most votes for something does not male you a good leader.

Plus whether we keep Jamal or not, that award will go to CJ Mosley next year, I imagine.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I posted a long list of bad contracts Macc signed too.  That doesn't help.  Because its not just the money you spend on them; it's that you pretty much have to commit to guys like that for a couple years to honor the sunken cost.  And simultaneously, that blocks the progress of any young talent you draft.  

It is hard for me to understand those that trust JD in the draft but believe he cannot be trusted to deal with contracts of our current players or with FAs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, jgb said:

It is hard for me to understand those that trust JD in the draft but believe he cannot be trusted to deal with contracts of our current players or with FAs.

I'm not mistrusting him with anything.  I'm just saying we can't depend on free agents to fill a lot of our key holes, because pretty much all of those holes are premium positions, thanks to Macc.

I used to be against bringing back a lot of our own, but I'm definitely in favor of bringing back Jordan Jenkins and Brian Poole.  Those are 2 players at premium positions that have earned their keep.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Robby hits the market it will be a signal they are looking for the comp pick

so yes OP is correct they aren't going to spend this offseason 

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/4/2020 at 3:10 PM, Jetsfan80 said:
  • WR AJ Green
  • EDGE Yannick Ngakoue

I know Green has had some injury issues and is a little older, but if Joe D has an idea to take WR's later and stock pile the line and address CB i wouldn't hate Green.

Edge Ngakoue would be nice... heck even Fowler depending on draft strategy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Stark said:

I know Green has had some injury issues and is a little older, but if Joe D has an idea to take WR's later and stock pile the line and address CB i wouldn't hate Green.

Edge Ngakoue would be nice... heck even Fowler depending on draft strategy.

 

Yuck.  AJ can't stay healthy.  The last thing Sam needs is a guy who only plays 4/16 games and can't practice much on the weeks where he's available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yuck.  AJ can't stay healthy.  The last thing Sam needs is a guy who only plays 4/16 games and can't practice much on the weeks where he's available.

He wouldn't be my top FA choice. I am not so concerned with the 2019 season and him taking the time, he knew the Bengals were going nowhere .

I'd rather sign an edge... but if you're going to get a WR I'd chance it with Green.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Stark said:

He wouldn't be my top FA choice. I am not so concerned with the 2019 season and him taking the time, he knew the Bengals were going nowhere .

Its not just the 2019 season.  Green has now missed 13 games over the last 3 seasons.  And he'll be 32 in July.  

And that's your BEST free agent WR option?  Not good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




Content Partnership

Yes Network

Site Sponsor

MILE-Social - NJ Social Media & SEO company
×
×
  • Create New...