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Who will backup Sam next year?

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

We don't necesarilly have to use any of the picks from the Jamal trade on a QB.  I'm just saying that those extra picks would give us flexibility.  Maybe to use a 5th or 6th rounder on a QB or something.  

People are so concerned about what the picks we get from Jamal turn into.  The point is that the picks give us flexibility to do a lot of things.  With the current picks we have, JD is a bit boxed in; he kind of HAS to use his first 3-4 picks on OL and WR.  By trading Jamal we might be able to add 3 OL, 1-2 WR's, PLUS some other items we could use.  

No. 

Why? 

Because it would be stupid. 

A veteran backup is the best option for a young QB, and they're cheap. That 5th or 6th rounder would be a guy they hope never sets foot on the field taking up a roster spot. It would be a wasted pick. I don't care what pick they would use out of however many picks they wind up with, none should be spent on a QB this year. The Jets need that pick and roster spot to help the team get better. A late round QB does not do that. 

I would be both shocked and pissed if the Jets waste a pick on a QB this year. 

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On 1/7/2020 at 7:31 PM, playtowinthegame said:

Nick Foles

Not going to happen.

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@Jetsfan80

All ^ that being said, in 2021, I'd potentially consider drafting a QB in any round after the first. By then, either Sam will have established himself as the man and the Jets could draft a developmental guy to sit behind him, or he will still not have reached this potential we all like to believe he has and having a young QB in to push/replace him starts to become a viable option. 

This isn't the year for that, though. Give Sam a new Uncle Josh and be done with it. 

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I like the idea of drafting a young guy late to groom behind sam, but I think as a backup right now we still need someone with vet experience to help guide him.  McCown would be great but I think he's kind of done and really should transition to coaching full time at this point.  I also agree with Matt Moore, but I'm not sure he still would sign up to be a backup as he retired last offseason.  

My two options I look at that can be good would be Chase Daniels, and Case Keenum.  Both seasoned vets with starting experience, both can come in and win a game in a pinch for you.  Similar style to Sam in terms of how the offense would operate with them in there.  I also think they have been involved in some innovative offenses (Chase in particular) and can offer a lot of fresh ideas to the offense and help in the meeting rooms.  Another sneaky option I kind of like is Matt Simms.  He's been doing a lot of QB development work with his father and brother at the Simms Elite QB camps and I think he can offer a lot to Sam from a fundamental Technique point of view.  

 

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21 minutes ago, slats said:

No. 

Why? 

Because it would be stupid. 

A veteran backup is the best option for a young QB, and they're cheap. That 5th or 6th rounder would be a guy they hope never sets foot on the field taking up a roster spot. It would be a wasted pick. I don't care what pick they would use out of however many picks they wind up with, none should be spent on a QB this year. The Jets need that pick and roster spot to help the team get better. A late round QB does not do that. 

I would be both shocked and pissed if the Jets waste a pick on a QB this year. 

 

I don't consider any QB pick a wasted pick (except Christian Hackenberg) because of the upside.  Grab a QB in the middle rounds who turns into the next Kirk Cousins and you can later flip him to another team for a higher pick, OR get a compensatory pick out of the deal.  Plus you have a cheap, quality backup for as many 4 years if you get the right one.  Even better:  What if that QB turns out to be better than Darnold?  

Just because it isn't an immediate need doesn't make it an unwise investment IF there's a QB we like and think the market is too low on.  The draft isn't just about immediate needs, as you know.  

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15 minutes ago, slats said:

@Jetsfan80

All ^ that being said, in 2021, I'd potentially consider drafting a QB in any round after the first. By then, either Sam will have established himself as the man and the Jets could draft a developmental guy to sit behind him, or he will still not have reached this potential we all like to believe he has and having a young QB in to push/replace him starts to become a viable option. 

This isn't the year for that, though. Give Sam a new Uncle Josh and be done with it. 

I'm not advocating forcing a QB pick if there aren't any we like in the middle rounds.  But you should ALWAYS consider taking a QB in EVERY draft for the reasons I stated above, no matter how many other needs you have and whether you have your franchise QB or not. 

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25 minutes ago, slats said:

No. 

Why? 

Because it would be stupid. 

A veteran backup is the best option for a young QB, and they're cheap. That 5th or 6th rounder would be a guy they hope never sets foot on the field taking up a roster spot. It would be a wasted pick. I don't care what pick they would use out of however many picks they wind up with, none should be spent on a QB this year. The Jets need that pick and roster spot to help the team get better. A late round QB does not do that. 

I would be both shocked and pissed if the Jets waste a pick on a QB this year. 

Hmmm, a cheap veteran QB who would make a great backup......sounds alot like a guy we had on the roster who went on to be a great backup this year.

One has to wonder....if during Sam's Mono Adventure, we had that certain veteran backup QB, would we have finished better than 7-9?  Given his play where he ended up, it's hard to say we wouldn't have been materially better if he had played instead of Simieian and Falk.

No worries, I doubt you'll admit you were wrong on that decision.  But you were.

 

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29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Hmmm, a cheap veteran QB who would make a great backup......sounds alot like a guy we had on the roster who went on to be a great backup this year.

One has to wonder....if during Sam's Mono Adventure, we had that certain veteran backup QB, would we have finished better than 7-9?  Given his play where he ended up, it's hard to say we wouldn't have been materially better if he had played instead of Simieian and Falk.

No worries, I doubt you'll admit you were wrong on that decision.  But you were.

 

Lol, Bridgewater?!?

Seimian would’ve been a fine backup if he didn’t go down eight snaps after he got into the lineup, and we’d’ve been in the same boat if Teddy went in and got hurt. 

Getting a third for Bridgewater was the right move at the time and still is in hindsight. 

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On 1/5/2020 at 9:12 AM, HawkeyeJet said:

My first call would be Matt Moore.  Will be a FA.  Knows Gase system very well.

We all know it, it looks like this:

World Architecture Review Earth Issue 2010: III ...

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On 1/5/2020 at 2:00 PM, Obrien2Toon said:

Dalton

I'd love to have Dalton but I think he wants to start and he may end up doing so for the Pats or the Bears.

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51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't consider any QB pick a wasted pick (except Christian Hackenberg) because of the upside.  Grab a QB in the middle rounds who turns into the next Kirk Cousins and you can later flip him to another team for a higher pick, OR get a compensatory pick out of the deal.  Plus you have a cheap, quality backup for as many 4 years if you get the right one.  Even better:  What if that QB turns out to be better than Darnold?  

Just because it isn't an immediate need doesn't make it an unwise investment IF there's a QB we like and think the market is too low on.  The draft isn't just about immediate needs, as you know.  

I don't fault this as a general strategy, it's one I advocate often, myself. But the first few years after you take a QB #3 overall, you simply shouldn't be using and draft picks on another QB (unless you've made the determination that your guy sucks). All those picks should be used to build the best possible team to support the QB you have. 

And these guys get that. Gase loves Darnold. Joe Douglas wouldn't've taken the job if he didn't think the Jets had their QB. They're gonna do what Maccagnan didn't and build as much around Sam as they can in one off-season. That'll include a veteran backup QB. 

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24 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, Bridgewater?!?

Seimian would’ve been a fine backup if he didn’t go down eight snaps after he got into the lineup, and we’d’ve been in the same boat if Teddy went in and got hurt. 

Getting a third for Bridgewater was the right move at the time and still is in hindsight. 

If you can't be right, at least be consistent. :cheers:

All jokes aside, I also do not see the Jets drafting a QB in 2020.  With that said, given Sam's history to-date, I won;t be surprised if whomever our backup is plays at least a few games in 2020, so the decision as to who is the backup IS perhaps more than a cursory thing.  I always prefer younger prospects over old worn out veterans, generally, and I don;t think Sam needs (or should have) his pee pee held for him by some old warhorse QB at his point.  He needs to stand or fall on his own merit.

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Just now, Warfish said:

If you can't be right, at least be consistent. :cheers:

Lol, is that your motto? 

Bridgewater was signed for only one year, and that was two years ago. He wouldn't've even been a consideration this past season. He would've signed as a free agent someplace where he could've competed for a starting job. His only relevance to the discussion at hand is your failed attempt to play "gotcha!" with me. 

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On 1/5/2020 at 2:22 PM, Beerfish said:

People love to kill Fitz here but he is actually almost an ideal backup.  A guy that if he is called on can win games impressively.

He will stay in Miami and probably be their starter to start next year.

He's not really an ideal backup if it means your starter is 100% going to get injured :)

 

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8 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, is that your motto? 

My motto for you. \\:D/

 

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Hopefully someone who can step in if needed and keep the NY Jets competitive. 

Who was responsible for the Luke Falk debacle, that guy should have never been on the roster let alone the starting QB for 3-4 games here. 

No way in hell. 

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4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Because Gase didn’t seem very interested in preparing him

Meaning what?

Because he thought Sam was gonna play and wanted to get him the reps?

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How about Matt McGloin, Marquise Williams or Garrett Fugate? (kidding, just prepping for the exciting Guardians XFL season)

I like the Matt Moore and Case Keenum ideas. Vets with experience who can actually help Darnold and step in if he needs to miss games (although this guy has to start a long streak of full seasons soon)

Anyone who comes here has to know that he will be a backup so that rules out Dalton, Manning, Rivers, et al who will want a chance to start somewhere. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

 I don't fault this as a general strategy, it's one I advocate often, myself. But the first few years after you take a QB #3 overall, you simply shouldn't be using and draft picks on another QB (unless you've made the determination that your guy sucks). All those picks should be used to build the best possible team to support the QB you have. 

And these guys get that. Gase loves Darnold. Joe Douglas wouldn't've taken the job if he didn't think the Jets had their QB. They're gonna do what Maccagnan didn't and build as much around Sam as they can in one off-season. That'll include a veteran backup QB. 

 

Fair enough.  Mainly I just think a GM should always have the leeway to take one IF there's one he absolutely HAS to have.  

New regimes almost always mean new QB's.  Douglas might like a backup option he has experience with at his previous stops.  Like, say, Nate Sudfeld (Eagles), a current free agent who was acquired while Douglas was in Philly.  But if there's nobody like that that he likes, a mid-late rounder is always a possibility.  

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Jets have to think outside the box here a little bit.  They cant be signing some older vet each year on a 1 year contract and expect that vet to learn the system and come in and win games. Draft a QB in the later rounds and keep him for the 4 years of his contract at least so he learns the system but honestly I would draft a running QB and have a whole different set of plays for him so when he does come in a game the opposing defense wont be prepared. If you bring the older vet into a game and run your same system it makes life too easy on the opposing defense - they know what offense we are running and its with a player thats not as good as our starter. If you bring in a young running QB that can also throw a pass here and there and he has some packages of plays just for him you can surprise the opposing defense for a few games anyway.

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On 1/9/2020 at 1:56 PM, Nixhead said:

Jets have to think outside the box here a little bit.  They cant be signing some older vet each year on a 1 year contract and expect that vet to learn the system and come in and win games. Draft a QB in the later rounds and keep him for the 4 years of his contract at least so he learns the system but honestly I would draft a running QB and have a whole different set of plays for him so when he does come in a game the opposing defense wont be prepared. If you bring the older vet into a game and run your same system it makes life too easy on the opposing defense - they know what offense we are running and its with a player thats not as good as our starter. If you bring in a young running QB that can also throw a pass here and there and he has some packages of plays just for him you can surprise the opposing defense for a few games anyway.

We have a ton of holes on offense I don’t know if we can use a luxury pick on a backup qb

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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

We have a ton of holes on offense I don’t know if we can use a luxury pick on a backup qb

I would consider back up QB a major hole also. As history has shown us Sam will miss a few games during the season. Obviously we hope not but it would be prudent to have a plan in place when or if this does happen. These 1 year backups are mostly garbage when called upon. Just my opinion but would be nice to develop a decent backup QB and have a plan in place when he is needed. 

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5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

We have a ton of holes on offense I don’t know if we can use a luxury pick on a backup qb

A QB is never a luxury pick. 

The one smart thing the Redskins have ever done under Dan Snyder was taking Kirk Cousins in the 4th round in the same draft where they took RG3.   They were ripped on pretty badly at the time, and again a year later when RG3 had a great rookie season.  

Meanwhile, backup veteran QB's tend to be fairly expensive and you pretty much know their limitations.  Draft a young QB in the middle rounds and not only is he super cheap, you also never know; one day that might be your franchise guy.  Or you might dupe another team into trading a high pick for him.  Or he could end up netting you a compensatory pick if he flashes potential.  Think Matt Flynn.

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6 hours ago, Nixhead said:

I would consider back up QB a major hole also. As history has shown us Sam will miss a few games during the season. Obviously we hope not but it would be prudent to have a plan in place when or if this does happen. These 1 year backups are mostly garbage when called upon. Just my opinion but would be nice to develop a decent backup QB and have a plan in place when he is needed. 

I’d rather just sign a veteran.  

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A QB is never a luxury pick. 

The one smart thing the Redskins have ever done under Dan Snyder was taking Kirk Cousins in the 4th round in the same draft where they took RG3.   They were ripped on pretty badly at the time, and again a year later when RG3 had a great rookie season.  

Meanwhile, backup veteran QB's tend to be fairly expensive and you pretty much know their limitations.  Draft a young QB in the middle rounds and not only is he super cheap, you also never know; one day that might be your franchise guy.  Or you might dupe another team into trading a high pick for him.  Or he could end up netting you a compensatory pick if he flashes potential.  Think Matt Flynn.

Drafting Cousins was a smart move because RG3 sucked.  Sam is good.

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Drafting Cousins was a smart move because RG3 sucked.  Sam is good.

 Please. No one thought RG3 was bad after his rookie season.   

 

The point is not to discuss RG3 vs Darnold. The point is it’s a good way to bring in a cheap backup who has upside for more. Sam is mostly irrelevant to that.

Give me a young guy with potential for less than $1M per year (on a 4-year deal) over a high-end veteran backup that would cost $4-8M per.

 

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57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 Please. No one thought RG3 was bad after his rookie season.   

 

The point is not to discuss RG3 vs Darnold. The point is it’s a good way to bring in a cheap backup who has upside for more. Sam is mostly irrelevant to that.

Give me a young guy with potential for less than $1M per year (on a 4-year deal) over a high-end veteran backup that would cost $4-8M per.

 

And for every Cousins you get a dozen Bryce Petty’s, Christina Wackintard’s and Davis Webbs

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8 hours ago, Nixhead said:

I would consider back up QB a major hole also. As history has shown us Sam will miss a few games during the season. Obviously we hope not but it would be prudent to have a plan in place when or if this does happen. These 1 year backups are mostly garbage when called upon. Just my opinion but would be nice to develop a decent backup QB and have a plan in place when he is needed. 

Yes, it’s true that Darnold has missed three games in each of his first two seasons, but what, exactly, is history showing us? 

As a rookie, there was a lot of talk about his “injury,” being of the phantom variety, and was really a benching to let him clear his head. 

Last year he got mono. When he came back, dealing with the residual effects of that illness and playing behind a terrible OL, I’m not sure I remember him missing a snap. I think he’s demonstrated the ability to protect himself, for the most part. 

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 Please. No one thought RG3 was bad after his rookie season.   

 

The point is not to discuss RG3 vs Darnold. The point is it’s a good way to bring in a cheap backup who has upside for more. Sam is mostly irrelevant to that.

Give me a young guy with potential for less than $1M per year (on a 4-year deal) over a high-end veteran backup that would cost $4-8M per.

 

The late round QB helps neither the team nor Darnold in the short term, and they rarely help out long term, either. 

A veteran backup, not necessarily Uncle Josh, but a guy like Seimian who’s started games in this league, is a guy who Sam can both use as a sounding board, and should also be able to come in and win in Sam’s absence. Fifth/sixth round rookie can’t do that. 

I’d much rather use that pick on any of the many important positions where the team is thin. 

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