2020 Draft General Plan - The Warfish Way (as of 1/6/20)

[BornJetsFan1983]

10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You are asking for a miracle.  We need 5 new guys on the OL. I have not seen anything from any of them that tells me this guy should be a starter in the NFL. We have e a bunch of backups there. We have no DB. Austin is a nice story and played well when he first came in but his played tailed off as the season went on. Poole is ok but he is a FA and I'm not sure the Jets will prioritize  him. We have no pass rushers at all. A slot WR is the best guy one on the team, and Bell was freaking disaster. That guy was the biggest black hole on the team I have seen since Revis returned. 

There is just too much to fix. 

bell was the biggest black hole on the team? really the guy putting it all out there on the field, not complaining, being everything a good team mate should be, he was the biggest black hole really?

c/mon man you dont really believe that. 

of all the players to single out you pick the pro bowl best RB talent we have ever had as the black hole. 

I'm just saying 1 off season it can change. Blesses and pool are fine as 2 and 3 cb, add some one good as our number 1 and the unit is much improved. maybe we get another blessed to step up and we are looking great, pick up a couple young OL drafts picks and boom the line is much improved and so does the run game and pass game.

But then yeah i'm worried about this next part, you need some decent offensive coaching. Gase seems incapable of this, but hey maybe we get an OC that played madden growing up and gets the basic idea of first downs.

I'm telling you, it would be 100 percent different and we could be a play off team. I

[More Cowbell]

27 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

bell was the biggest black hole on the team? really the guy putting it all out there on the field, not complaining, being everything a good team mate should be, he was the biggest black hole really?

c/mon man you dont really believe that. 

of all the players to single out you pick the pro bowl best RB talent we have ever had as the black hole. 

I'm just saying 1 off season it can change. Blesses and pool are fine as 2 and 3 cb, add some one good as our number 1 and the unit is much improved. maybe we get another blessed to step up and we are looking great, pick up a couple young OL drafts picks and boom the line is much improved and so does the run game and pass game.

But then yeah i'm worried about this next part, you need some decent offensive coaching. Gase seems incapable of this, but hey maybe we get an OC that played madden growing up and gets the basic idea of first downs.

I'm telling you, it would be 100 percent different and we could be a play off team. I

Black hole as in the amount of cap we invested and the return we get. I didn't  say Bell was a cancer or a bad guy, we are just not getting anything out of him. 

As far as the OL, i see two rookies, one FA, and 2 holdovers for next season. IMO what tjat does is that unit is no longer an embarrassment is all. They won't  be good enougg to win 10+ games with. If we have an 8 or 9 win season, that will be significant  improvement and say we are on track. With that kind of OL, we most likely spend the forst 8 games with them getting familiar  playing together and we don't  see what we have until after that. 

Ueah, we can get along with Poole and Austin but that third guy needs to be a solid man to man cover corner who is physical at the LOS. I don't  knkw that we get a guy like that in FA. 

If all of this falls in place for is, JD is God. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

The Jets will not be a playoff team next season. 

Which is exactly why we should accumulate draft picks where we can.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. Anyone with the slightest amount of objectivity  would admit you reverse roles of any of the two, playing behind the worst OL innthebhistory of the NFL would severely  hinder them. 

50 f**king TD's dude.  You're an insane homer if you think Sam is on Mahomes' level.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

I hope we draft a center because Harrison is awful. I also think Biadasz is overrated and don't get these first round vibes.

So why the hate when I suggest we should trade Adams for a 1st + 1-2 other picks and draft a Center with the pick we get back?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

There is just too much to fix. 

Again.  Then why not accumulate draft picks?  That's by far the best method to restocking the cupboard. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

So why the hate when I suggest we should trade Adams for a 1st + 1-2 other picks and draft a Center with the pick we get back?

[More Cowbell]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

50 f**king TD's dude.  You're an insane homer if you think Sam is on Mahomes' level.  

I guess reading isn't  your thing

[More Cowbell]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Again.  Then why not accumulate draft picks?  That's by far the best method to restocking the cupboard. 

Even if we trade your boy Adams, it still won't  make us a playoff team because the OL needs to be torn apart and done over from scratch so there really is no rush. On top of it, you are going on faith with JD. Why, i have no idea. This is the man that brought us Kahlil, the kicker we cut after the Bills game who decided to becone a punter afterwards and Ficken. 

Great track record.

Oh yeah,  we also need a kicker.

[RobR]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So why the hate when I suggest we should trade Adams for a 1st + 1-2 other picks and draft a Center with the pick we get back?

No hate, just said Biadasz was overrated, which he is.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, RobR said:

No hate, just said Biadasz was overrated, which he is.

Who would you like to be the starting Center of the Jets next year, ideally?

[Smashmouth]

On 1/6/2020 at 1:10 PM, Warfish said:

First and most vital presumption: 

Jamal Adams is traded for a #1 pick in 2020.  For purposes of this, I will accept a #4 as the second pick we get, and yes, I know many here will be made at that theoretical compensation.

Again, for purposes of projection, I'm going ultra-conservative, and say the #1 pick is #20 overall (Jacksonville), a team projected in some mocks to go Safety in Round 1 this year.  Higher picks could be possible.

Current Jets O-line players Beachum (OT), Harrison (C/OG) and Shell (OT/OG) and Edoga (OL) are retained, for depth if nothing else.. 

L. Bell is retained at #1 RB (because he's not going to get us enough to be worth trading).

-------------------------

Round #1 - #11 Overall - With Thomas projected off the Board, the pick here is Tristan Wirfs (OT) or Jedrick Wills (OT).  The O-Line Rebuild begins.

Round #1 (For Adams) - #20 Overall - I would (perhaps riskily) skip WR and get the best Center in the Draft, Tyler Biadasz (C)

Round #2 - Justin Jefferson (WR), LSU.  6'3", 192.  Potential legit #1 WR, great route runner, good body control, uses his size well to make contested catches.

Round #3 - Calvin Throckmorton (OG), Oregon.  

Round #3 - Michael Pittman Jr., (WR), LSU.  6'5", good hands, big bully of a WR and run blocker.  Little weak on separation, but helps establish what I want in my offense, big strong tough bullies who will block.  Worth a chance here.

Round #4 - Curtis Weaver, (DE/OLB), Boise State.  An Edge prospect.  Worth the risk at this spot.

Round #4 (for Adams) - Lamar Jackson, (CB), Nebraska.  6'3", 215.  

Round #5 - Hamsah Nasirildeen (S), FSU.  6'4", 215.

Round #6 - Levonta Taylor (CB), FSU, 5'10", 190.

Round #7 - Pick Um'.  RB.  OG.  OT.  EDGE.  BAP with max upside and bully toughness is fine here.  Sorry, my bad, this was traded away.

---------------------------

The players above are placeholders.  Most should be available at or around those spots, as of today, but a ton will change between today and draft day.  The basic plan, however, should remain.

A dedicated focus on rebuilding the O-line.  We get top-end prospects at Center and Tackle in the 1st, with a likely very solid Guard in the 3rd.  Leaves only two spots to be filled by existing linemen or FA's (preferably existing if possible, Harrison?  Beachum?  Shell? Edoga?)

The WR unit, currently made up of Crowder in the slot and D. Thomas at #3 at best, gets a material infusion of young talent.  We take a shot at a #1 with Jefferson, and get a bully who can block and fight for the ball on short routes in coverage with Pittman.  Focus on solid route running and winning contested catches.

The Defense waits a while, and we do not get a true elite EDGE, sadly we cannot solve every problem in one offseason draft.  

But we do address the glaring need in the DBackfield at Cornerback with two upside prospects who could materially help solve this problem, and we provide a new prospect at Safety to handle the Adams position with Maye.  We lose something there vs. the run (hopefully to be handled by our returned LB'ers and an improved QW), but should gain in pass coverage an INT's.  

This general plan (and again, the specific players can and likely will change by draft day!) leaves us still amongst the worst in the NFL at pass rush Edge, and we take a hit at Safety but gain at CB and pass coverage.  Our O-line is rebuilt and our WR corp. infused with talent to pair with Crowder/Thomas/Herndon/Griffin/Enunwa-if-back.

Edge becomes our top FA need (along with more OL!), and if not addressed, the #1 need going into 2021 without question.

Sam gets the help he desperately needs with a young O-line and WR corp.  RB also has to wait till 2021 for the future, but should be patch-able via FA.

Draft plan leans hard on offense (makes up for the past 16 years), and expects ALOT out of D-Co Williams again in 2020 with a healthy LB corp. and the loss of Adams.

Some FA's to target:

Brandon Schrerff (28 years old), OG, Redskins

Justin Simmons, (26), S, Broncos.

 

Warfish I only see one problem with your scenario here and that's the compensation for Adams (as you were prepared to address). If you think a 1 and 4 is good why not go for a 1 and an already proven OLineman ? So I propose trading him to the team that wants him (the Cowboys) and get one of their star offensive lineman and possibly a 1st and a 4th to go along with it  . if the boys want him bad enough which I think they do they wont be able to pay Cooper which will also free up that possibility via FA .

I love the way you described the WR's you wanted (big Bully types) guys that will play the entire game of football and help both in the running and passing game. So many people underestimate the importance of good blocking WR's especially on sweeps. 

Also on the OL would you not give Lewis a chance to develop further as a back up ?

[RobR]

17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Who would you like to be the starting Center of the Jets next year, ideally?

I honestly don't know. Even though I think Biadasz is overrated I still wouldn't mind him on the Jets, just not with a first round pick. We need to get Harrison back into a backup role which is where he belongs. 

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, RobR said:

I honestly don't know. Even though I think Biadasz is overrated I still wouldn't mind him on the Jets, just not with a first round pick. We need to get Harrison back into a backup role which is where he belongs. 

OK, honest answer, I like it.  Fair enough

[isired]

...I propose trading him to the team that wants him (the Cowboys) and get one of their star offensive lineman and possibly a 1st and a 4th to go along with it

Wasnt that exactly what JD asked for (IIRC they told the Cowboys Tyron Smith, a 1 and a 3, when rejected they asked for Zach Martin + 1 + 3)

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

No hate, just said Biadasz was overrated, which he is.

Not regarding Biadasz specifically, and not just from you.  I was talking about the hate for the idea of trading Jamal for a 1st plus 1-2 picks then using the 1st rounder on a Center.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Even if we trade your boy Adams, it still won't  make us a playoff team because the OL needs to be torn apart and done over from scratch so there really is no rush. On top of it, you are going on faith with JD. Why, i have no idea. This is the man that brought us Kahlil, the kicker we cut after the Bills game who decided to becone a punter afterwards and Ficken. 

Great track record.

Oh yeah,  we also need a kicker.

 

Dude hasn't even had a draft yet.  He was trying to put band-aids on one of the 2-3 worst rosters in the sport.  That's on Macc, not JD.

He's a well-respected scout/assistant GM from two quality, Super Bowl winning organizations.  His track record is the best we've seen from a GM hire since the Johnson's came into power.

Your arguments make no sense whatsoever.

[RobR]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not regarding Biadasz specifically, and not just from you.  I was talking about the hate for the idea of trading Jamal for a 1st plus 1-2 picks then using the 1st rounder on a Center.

As of right now I wouldn't be surprised if no centers get drafted in the first round. So yes, I would hate to trade Adams for some scrubby center that we reach for in the first round.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I guess reading isn't  your thing

Watching QB's play clearly isn't yours if you think Sam is anything close to Mahomes or even Watson.  

Not everything about the quality of a QB can be pinned on his supporting cast and HC like you're trying to do.  

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Dude hasn't even had a draft yet. 

Exactly

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Watching QB's play clearly isn't yours if you think Sam is anything close to Mahomes or even Watson.  

Not everything about the quality of a QB can be pinned on his supporting cast and HC like you're trying to do.  

Maybe you should read what I wrote

[jgb]

I cannot condone any plan to trade a pro bowl player for magic beans. JD is an unknown in the draft let’s see how he does with the normal slate of picks before doing a tear down to give him more.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, RobR said:

As of right now I wouldn't be surprised if no centers get drafted in the first round. So yes, I would hate to trade Adams for some scrubby center that we reach for in the first round.

In that case I would want to trade Jamal so we can take an OT and WR in round 1 and grab the highest-graded Center in Round 2 or 3.  

[greenwichjetfan]

On 1/6/2020 at 7:31 PM, T0mShane said:

Neither of us are pro-Gase

The “us” is a dead giveaway. 

Can’t be anti-suck and defend/explain/apologize for Gase’s failures. The two are mutually exclusive.

[Augustiniak]

On 1/7/2020 at 8:11 PM, jgb said:

I cannot condone any plan to trade a pro bowl player for magic beans. JD is an unknown in the draft let’s see how he does with the normal slate of picks before doing a tear down to give him more.

while ideally i'd like to convert adams into a lot of draft currency to use on offense, that's not what douglas is going to pursue.  IMO adams will get a contract and they will look to shed the duds elsewhere to ensure they have cap space to sign other guys.  i just don't think adams i going anywhere.  not only is it difficult to get teams to fork over multiple premiere picks, but then that team would have to sign him b/c adams is going to begin squawking for a long term deal soon.  and douglas would wear his welcome out quickly if he used the pick on adams to draft someone who got off to a slow start, that's just how it is here.

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The “us” is a dead giveaway. 

Can’t be anti-suck and defend/explain/apologize for Gase’s failures. The two are mutually exclusive.

Tom is playing both sides of the fence.  Making sure that he doesnt seem "all in" on Gase.  That way he can cover his bases and save face if and when Gase flails out here....but if he's successful, you'll never hear about how he had doubts about Gase.  

I'd also like to point out, Tom loved Rex Ryan the first 2 seasons.  Loved him.  Now he curses him to the high heavens. 

 

 

 

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Tom is playing both sides of the fence.  Making sure that he doesnt seem "all in" on Gase.  That way he can cover his bases and save face if and when Gase flails out here....but if he's successful, you'll never hear about how he had doubts about Gase.  

I'd also like to point out, Tom loved Rex Ryan the first 2 seasons.  Loved him.  Now he curses him to the high heavens. 

 

 

 

I am an objective analyst, chained to the existing body of evidence. Feelings are for mushes like you and GreenwichGary over there 

[greenwichjetfan]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I am an objective analyst, chained to the existing body of evidence. Feelings are for mushes like you and GreenwichGary over there 

Nothing objective or empirical about avoiding/ignoring every post I quote your pro-gase rhetoric in with numbers proving Gase's sucktitude!

[greenwichjetfan]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I am an objective analyst, chained to the existing body of evidence. Feelings are for mushes like you and GreenwichGary over there 

Also, you're throwing your hat in with SAR while simultaneously saying the collective is not pro-gase. CMON MAN!

[greenwichjetfan]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I am an objective analyst, chained to the existing body of evidence. Feelings are for mushes like you and GreenwichGary over there 

Lastly, I'm not a Gary. You're a Gary.

[JustInFudge]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I am an objective analyst, chained to the existing body of evidence. Feelings are for mushes like you and GreenwichGary over there 

JetNation - look at Gase's track record.  He's hasnt coached an offense that's ranked higher than 26th in the league in the last 4 years.  Also, look at all these other players who are doing great away from Gase.

Tom Shane - stop using feelings and bring an objective analysis to the table, please.

 

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Nothing objective or empirical about avoiding/ignoring every post I quote your pro-gase rhetoric in with numbers proving Gase's sucktitude!

I don’t read other people’s posts.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

JetNation - look at Gase's track record.  He's hasnt coached an offense that's ranked higher than 26th in the league in the last 4 years.  Also, look at all these other players who are doing great away from Gase.

Tom Shane - stop using feelings and bring an objective analysis to the table, please.

 

Those can be facts, but your conclusions are feelings-based. Gase’s Dolphins record was pertinent before you hired him; now it’s not. You’re not firing him because the Dolphins were bad, and you’re definitely not firing him after 7-9. If you’re rooting for him to be fired, you’re giving in to your feelings. Objectively, you should be hoping he becomes a winner here. If you fired him two days ago, you weren’t getting McCarthy or Rhule because those bridges were burned last year. There’s no way Belichick would let Joe Judge take this job, either. So what was your plan? Fire Gase and hope for Dick Vermeil? You, @Philc1, @joewilly12and GreenwichGlenn have to get it together. Onward. Root for the Jets.

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t read other people’s posts.

Liar, I KNOW you read mine! 

[HighPitch]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:46 PM, More Cowbell said:

Even if we trade your boy Adams, it still won't  make us a playoff team because the OL needs to be torn apart and done over from scratch so there really is no rush. On top of it, you are going on faith with JD. Why, i have no idea. This is the man that brought us Kahlil, the kicker we cut after the Bills game who decided to becone a punter afterwards and Ficken. 

Great track record.

Oh yeah,  we also need a kicker.

Dude not arguing with u over needs but you are wayyyyyyy too negative.

as it stands now we won 7 games. 2 more makes 9 and thats wildcard material. We will improve, no doubt so calm down