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The Jets passed on/failed to acquire 6 of the 8 remaining 2020 playoff QB's this past decade.


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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

At least Pennington was coming off a strong 2004 campaign that year.  So it made SOME sense that we weren't in the QB market. 

This right here. 

How many Jets fans wanted to replace Pennington in the 05 draft?

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2012:  Terry Bradway reportedly pounded the table for Russell Wilson in the 2nd round.  Tannebaum took Stephen Hill instead. 2014:  Mistakenly trying to build around Geno Smith, John Idzik took b

Yes- all true. Depressingly true. listen to me though.  Sam Darnold is for real and will be one of these guys.  I mean it. i listened to a jets podcast today entirely devoted to a bean count

Okay, I'm convinced that about 90% of the sexual gratification you get comes from reminding us how organizationally ****ed this team is.

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1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

Okay, I'm convinced that about 90% of the sexual gratification you get comes from reminding us how organizationally ****ed this team is.

.

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14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I said "in the last decade" to keep it somewhat relevant.  Which of course ruled out the 2005 draft as part of the original post.

At least Pennington was coming off a strong 2004 campaign that year.  So it made SOME sense that we weren't in the QB market. 

The 2012-17 drafts it made absolutely zero sense to pass on the QB's when we did.   

Tannehill would have been interesting, since he'd had been brought in to be a backup but would have been forced into duty due to mono....

3 points vs Pit in the playoffs and had a bad shoulder already. His bloated contract is a more accurate reason.

Regardless it's still 7 of 8 that were available to us in the last decade. Missed that last part. So the only outlier has been with that same team for ~15 years, but was available to us back at that time as well. And GB had Favre coming off another 4000 yd / 30 TD season when they took him.

:bag: 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'll stop you right there.  Either a QB can play or he can't.  None of these teams would be in the Divisional Round of the postseason if these QB's were incapable of winning in any system and regardless of the personnel around them.

Wilson has a Super Bowl in his pocket and has been an elite QB for basically his entire career.  Mahomes has a 50-TD season and a 76/18 TD:INT ratio for his career.  Watson has single-handedly saved Bill O'Brien's job year after year.  Lamar Jackson is a phenom and not just a running QB.  Belichick was heavily resistant to trading Garoppolo for a reason; he'd be the heir apparent to Brady right now if not for Kraft.  

Cousins sucks.  He's the only one on the list I'm fine with "missing out" on.  The rest would all be top 10 or above average QB's here.  

So you're telling me if the Jets had drafted Russell Wilson they'd have a Super Bowl title, if they drafted Mahomes they'd have had the League MVP last year, if they drafted Lamar instead of Darnold the Jets would be the #1 seed in the AFC?  That these QBs "can either play or they can't" and the teams and coaches around them don't matter?

 

i don't believe you anchorman GIF

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3 minutes ago, CTM said:

Me!

Haha, cool

The point is that there was merit to sticking with Pennington beyond 2004. The Jets didn't know he was going to get hurt again in 2005 and were Doug Brien choking away from going to the AFC Championship game with him at QB. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'll stop you right there.  Either a QB can play or he can't.  None of these teams would be in the Divisional Round of the postseason if these QB's were incapable of winning in any system and regardless of the personnel around them.

Wilson has a Super Bowl in his pocket and has been an elite QB for basically his entire career.  Mahomes has a 50-TD season and a 76/18 TD:INT ratio for his career.  Watson has single-handedly saved Bill O'Brien's job year after year.  Lamar Jackson is a phenom and not just a running QB.  Belichick was heavily resistant to trading Garoppolo for a reason; he'd be the heir apparent to Brady right now if not for Kraft.  

Cousins sucks.  He's the only one on the list I'm fine with "missing out" on.  The rest would all be top 10 or above average QB's here.  

But uh, what about the Tannehill argument? 

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1 hour ago, David Harris said:

Yes- all true. Depressingly true.

listen to me though.  Sam Darnold is for real and will be one of these guys.  I mean it.

i listened to a jets podcast today entirely devoted to a bean counter unemotionally illustrating just how horrific the offensive line was this year- like ungodly horrible, damn near record breaking bad and how Sam was still able to be an “average” QB under these circumstances that would’ve broken nearly anyone.

i trust in JD and his knowledge that it is OL OL OL. Sam will be one of these guys soon imho

Look, I love the optimism, and who knows what Sam’s career will end up like, but saying he’s going to be “one of those guys” is just wishing and hoping.

Just like Allen, Rosen and Mayfield, he hasn’t shown anything near the talent of Mahomes, Watson or Jackson.

if you want to say it about Sam, you have to say the same thing about any of those other class of 18 QBs also. Especially Sam. He’s missed more games and has ranked lower then any of them besides Rosen.

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8 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Look, I love the optimism, and who knows what Sam’s career will end up like, but saying he’s going to be “one of those guys” is just wishing and hoping.

Just like Allen, Rosen and Mayfield, he hasn’t shown anything near the talent of Mahomes, Watson or Jackson.

if you want to say it about Sam, you have to say the same thing about any of those other class of 18 QBs also. Especially Sam. He’s missed more games and has ranked lower then any of them besides Rosen.

I don't disagree yet I'm still convinced Darnold is the guy to lead this team longterm.  Question - Between the Jets, Bills, Ravens, Browns and Cardinals/Dolphins.....how would you rank the situations each of those guys have been in from best to worst?  I define situation as the roster around them, quality of coaching, stability/consistency, etc.

I'd argue that outside of Rosen (whose situation is anomalous) Darnold has had the worst by far.  Now, that could turn quickly to Baker depending on the Browns' offseason but every one of those QBs has had BOTH 2 seasons in the same offensive system and better talent around them IMO.  The Jets have done almost everything wrong that you could possibly do wrong in developing a QB his first two seasons, and yet Sam still looks very capable and promising.  The Jets changed his offensive system, ignored and degraded his OLine protection, put a miscast shiny object in at RB, and ended up with injuries to most key players around him.  Add mononucleosis for 3 weeks and you kinda have a recipe for disaster...but the kid didn't sink and was the NFL's 10th best QB over the second half of the entire NFL season.  I have hard time thinking this guy can't be really, really good.

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15 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Look, I love the optimism, and who knows what Sam’s career will end up like, but saying he’s going to be “one of those guys” is just wishing and hoping.

Just like Allen, Rosen and Mayfield, he hasn’t shown anything near the talent of Mahomes, Watson or Jackson.

if you want to say it about Sam, you have to say the same thing about any of those other class of 18 QBs also. Especially Sam. He’s missed more games and has ranked lower then any of them besides Rosen.

All fair. Admittedly, im a biased homer.

Sam has impressed me.  The team around him is nearly the worst in the NFL. He was a rookie and kept his head above water. This mono thing was crazy and he came back with no talent around him and made some impressive plays. The jets feel like he really grew over the course of this year. So do I. Give this kid some help and I really believe. 
 

We’ll see

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35 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't disagree yet I'm still convinced Darnold is the guy to lead this team longterm.  Question - Between the Jets, Bills, Ravens, Browns and Cardinals/Dolphins.....how would you rank the situations each of those guys have been in from best to worst?  I define situation as the roster around them, quality of coaching, stability/consistency, etc.

I'd argue that outside of Rosen (whose situation is anomalous) Darnold has had the worst by far.  Now, that could turn quickly to Baker depending on the Browns' offseason but every one of those QBs has had BOTH 2 seasons in the same offensive system and better talent around them IMO.  The Jets have done almost everything wrong that you could possibly do wrong in developing a QB his first two seasons, and yet Sam still looks very capable and promising.  The Jets changed his offensive system, ignored and degraded his OLine protection, put a miscast shiny object in at RB, and ended up with injuries to most key players around him.  Add mononucleosis for 3 weeks and you kinda have a recipe for disaster...but the kid didn't sink and was the NFL's 10th best QB over the second half of the entire NFL season.  I have hard time thinking this guy can't be really, really good.

I’m just going to leave this here, and give you the last word if you want it, because of the respect I have for you and your opinions.

Mayfield was drafted by a team that had lost 30 games in a row. Bad situation. Great rookie year, struggled this year, no doubt. Something is wrong with that offense, it’s more then the OL, and it has to be addressed.

Allen, thought to be the most raw of the four, has actually progressed each of his two seasons. Is he polished? No. Is he getting better though? I’d say yeas, and his team is winning with him.

Jackson. I loved him as much as I do Mayfield, but was ridiculed last year for saying it when he got a chance to play. He’s been phenomenal, yet more then half you guys would rather have Sam, because you think he’s an injury waiting to happen. Meanwhile Sam is the one who’s missed 6 games.

Darnold. Two seasons. Ranked 26 and 25 in QBR. In my opinion Gase realized very quickly that Darnold’s mechanics and decision making, not to mention an inability to throw deep, were lacking. He did a great job with Sam, calling lots of quick short passes. It cut down on his ints and helped his completion %. 

The bottom line, if you asked me? Of these 4 QBs, the one who has the lowest combined score of arm strength, decision making, mobility and fundamentals? I would say Sam. 

He may not be last in every single category, but there isn’t one he would be on top of.

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So you're telling me if the Jets had drafted Russell Wilson they'd have a Super Bowl title, if they drafted Mahomes they'd have had the League MVP last year, if they drafted Lamar instead of Darnold the Jets would be the #1 seed in the AFC?  That these QBs "can either play or they can't" and the teams and coaches around them don't matter?       

 

 Lol wtf? I was saying we were wrong to pass on those QBs (except Cousins), because they’re all well above average or elite. And many JN people wanted those guys at the time the draft took place. I myself wanted Watson at # 6 in 2017.   

 

I never once suggested or implied their success would be exactly the same here. Come on dude. You’re smarter than this.

 

I even said this in the post you quoted:

 

“ Cousins sucks.  He's the only one on the list I'm fine with "missing out" on.  The rest would all be top 10 or above average QB's here. 

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I won't say the Vikings would be where they are right now if Darnold was their qb, but I can say with almost 100% certainty the Jets would be in the same spot if Cousins was theirs.


Agreed.

It’s the homers suggesting Darnold is in the same ballpark as Mahomes, Jackson and Watson that are a special brand of lunatics. Or that say those guys would flop here. It’s like they only watch Jets games.
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24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Agreed.

It’s the homers suggesting Darnold is in the same ballpark as Mahomes, Jackson and Watson that are a special brand of lunatics. Or that say those guys would flop here. It’s like they only watch Jets games.

 

Bro, I've been saying this for a while now.

Many/Most Jets fans are Jets fans 1st, NFL/Football fans 2nd. They are clueless when it comes to any team other than the Jets. If the Jets were contracted tomorrow, they probably stop watching football altogether.

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2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Look, I love the optimism, and who knows what Sam’s career will end up like, but saying he’s going to be “one of those guys” is just wishing and hoping.

Just like Allen, Rosen and Mayfield, he hasn’t shown anything near the talent of Mahomes, Watson or Jackson.

if you want to say it about Sam, you have to say the same thing about any of those other class of 18 QBs also. Especially Sam. He’s missed more games and has ranked lower then any of them besides Rosen.

 

1255574E-12DD-458E-8558-E90C09CCCA76.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

(Darnold) hasn’t shown anything near the talent of Mahomes, Watson or Jackson.

Good.

Running, scrambling quarterbacks never win anything.  They eventually get hurt, are forced to play like a traditional quarterback, and are useless shells of their former selves a few years later.  This trend towards "the next Michael Vick" happens every few years, RG3 being the one before Jackson and the one after Vick, Newton being thrown in for good measure.  These guys tend to have 1 or 2 dominant seasons, run into a defense that can stop them in the playoffs, get hurt, and vanish.

If Sam Darnold is the best of the young quarterbacks as a pocket passer, we're set for a decade.

SAR I

 

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6 hours ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

This is bad, yes. But wouldn't most teams have passed on at least half of these qbs?

But all of them? While desperate for a QB? And picking top ten in the draft like five years in a row?

6 hours ago, David Harris said:

Yes- all true. Depressingly true.

listen to me though.  Sam Darnold is for real and will be one of these guys.  I mean it.

i listened to a jets podcast today entirely devoted to a bean counter unemotionally illustrating just how horrific the offensive line was this year- like ungodly horrible, damn near record breaking bad and how Sam was still able to be an “average” QB under these circumstances that would’ve broken nearly anyone.

i trust in JD and his knowledge that it is OL OL OL. Sam will be one of these guys soon imho

This is a lot of faith in a guy whose draft skill we know very little about 

In addition, have you considered that it is possible for both the OL to be terrible (it is) and Darnold not to be “the guy”? We have conclusively established that Darnold isn’t very good with a terrible offensive line. Fair enough, that is true of most QBs. That does not mean he will automatically be great or even good with a better one. It’s fine to have hope but let’s call it what it is.

6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Question - How well do you think any of them would do if they were on the Jets?

Let me suggest a possible alternative reality where the Jets passed on Darnold, he was taken by the Bills and Buffalo goes to the AFC Championship Game this year.  Darnold gets added to your 2018 scenario about QBs the "failed to acquire."

Snap back!  Wake up from that alternative reality.  Good news!!!! We didn't fail to acquire Darnold....we got him!  All is well now right?

In other words, Russell Wilson ain't Russell Wilson if he's here....Jimmy G is watching the playoffs if he's here...etc.

This is a very poor excuse to whiff so obviously in the draft time and time again

5 hours ago, Larz said:

Can we just be happy that the Jets didn’t draft Rosen or Mayfield? 

No. Rosen was an obvious bust from the start and Macc still would’ve taken him if Giants didn’t go Barkley. We are still recovering from the near miss. Also consider if Rosen was brought here we would be hearing all the same excuses for his lousy performance as we hear now for Sam. Don’t kid yourself this is a fan base that thought Geno got a raw deal here.

5 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Hindsight is 20/20

Apparently so is foresight in this case

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

He gave multiple examples of people wanting players at that time.

I swear people have no clue what hindsight means.

Hindsight these days is an all encompassing excuse to suck.

Say something critical with foresight, you are a “SOJF defeatist loser.”

Say something critical after the fact, you are “beating a dead horse.”

That’s how JN deals with those that criticize the Jets while being oblivious to the obvious irony that the ultimate defeatism is arguing that no matter who we drafted, we would’ve ruined them anyway so therefore everything is irrelevant.

5 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Hindsight is fans whining about missed picks that 29 other clubs missed and most of those players weren't rated for the selection the Jets were picking.

STUPIDITY IS MAKING FUN OF THE PICK WE GOT RIGHT. JAMAL ADAMS A TWO ALL PRO SEASONS IN 3 YEARS. 

Waitaminute... We should be happy we drafted Jamal but Dave Gettleman is a fool for drafting the OROTY last year...

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Just 6 of 8? ;) 

It's a long time ago now, but in 2005: We traded our 1st round pick #26 to Oakland for Jolley and 2nd+6th round picks. Oakland was then able to move up from our #26 pick to #23 for just a 5th rounder. Aaron Rodgers was taken at #24. We passed on that opportunity for a 3rd rate TE and a 2nd round kicker. Cherry on top is Heath Miller went 30th if we wanted a TE so badly.

And anyone could have had Tannehill in 2019. He cost Tenn a 4th rounder in 2020 and $2MM. If he leaves Tenn in FA he'd surely return a comp pick for them, so the pick cost is as negligible as the cash when compared to their return on investment.

I banged the table for Tannehill to be brought in last off season.

#hindsight

Of course the person that is happiest that Ryan Tannehill was not reunited with Adam Gase is Ryan Tannehill.

2 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

It sucks to read that list. Almost as painful is that we used all of our premium picks on defense. If we had taken offensive linemen and/or skill players we’d be in a much better situation. Idzik and Maccagnan ****ed us up. 

Add several defensive head coaches in a row and we still haven’t had an elite defense in that decade 

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Good.

Running, scrambling quarterbacks never win anything.  They eventually get hurt, are forced to play like a traditional quarterback, and are useless shells of their former selves a few years later.  This trend towards "the next Michael Vick" happens every few years, RG3 being the one before Jackson and the one after Vick, Newton being thrown in for good measure.  These guys tend to have 1 or 2 dominant seasons, run into a defense that can stop them in the playoffs, get hurt, and vanish.

If Sam Darnold is the best of the young quarterbacks as a pocket passer, we're set for a decade.

SAR I

 

Image result for steve young gif

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Good.

Running, scrambling quarterbacks never win anything.  They eventually get hurt, are forced to play like a traditional quarterback, and are useless shells of their former selves a few years later.  This trend towards "the next Michael Vick" happens every few years, RG3 being the one before Jackson and the one after Vick, Newton being thrown in for good measure.  These guys tend to have 1 or 2 dominant seasons, run into a defense that can stop them in the playoffs, get hurt, and vanish.

If Sam Darnold is the best of the young quarterbacks as a pocket passer, we're set for a decade.

SAR I

 

Fake quote, I just posted a picture of emperor palpatine. I didn’t say anything about Darnold.

I like Darnold, I think outside of Mahomes I would not change him for anyone else.

Jackson is great, but we are not the Ravens he’d be a disaster here.

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42 minutes ago, King P said:

Image result for steve young gif

Yes but as soon as a running QB wins anything he is immediately re-classified as “dual threat.” See: Steve Young, Russell Wilson. It is “the no true Scotsman” debate technique.

It’s as if there is some mythical starting QB out there that runs like peak Ladanian but throws like Hackenberg.

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6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

2012:  Terry Bradway reportedly pounded the table for Russell Wilson in the 2nd round.  Tannebaum took Stephen Hill instead.

2014:  Mistakenly trying to build around Geno Smith, John Idzik took bust TE Jace Amaro in the 2nd round with Jimmy Garoppolo still on the board.  JN Draftniks like @HessStation were calling for Jimmy G in that spot.  

2017:  The QB-needy Jets passed on both Deshaun Watson and Pat Mahomes, opting instead to take Jamal Adams and roll with Christian Hackenberg and Bryce Petty.  @dbatesman was one of the more vocal JN posters calling for the Jets to take Watson at 6.

2018:  Macc offered more money than any other team for Kirk Cousins' services.  The Jets' roster was so bad that Cousins took less coin to join the Vikings, much to the chagrin of @Warfish.  The Jets seemed to dodge a bullet, trading three 2nd rounders to eventually take Darnold.  However, the best QB in the draft, at least to this point, has clearly been Lamar Jackson.  

I wouldnt say Jackson has been the best QB, he is the best at the QB position so far, but whether that can be sustained is quite dubious.

Passing on both Watson and Mahomes was incredibly idiotic, though. I still have a hard time getting my head around it. Not that it is guaranteed that either would have become what they are now with the Jets

But they have Sam and I am still confident in him.

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Add Larry David to the list of Jets fans who would have been a better GM than Macc. Apparently, he called Macc and recommended drafting Lamar Jackson. Macc's response? Well I won't spoil it. He also gives his thoughts on Gase. Jump to 3:20.

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

2012:  Terry Bradway reportedly pounded the table for Russell Wilson in the 2nd round.  Tannebaum took Stephen Hill instead.

2014:  Mistakenly trying to build around Geno Smith, John Idzik took bust TE Jace Amaro in the 2nd round with Jimmy Garoppolo still on the board.  JN Draftniks like @HessStation were calling for Jimmy G in that spot.  

2017:  The QB-needy Jets passed on both Deshaun Watson and Pat Mahomes, opting instead to take Jamal Adams and roll with Christian Hackenberg and Bryce Petty.  @dbatesman was one of the more vocal JN posters calling for the Jets to take Watson at 6.

2018:  Macc offered more money than any other team for Kirk Cousins' services.  The Jets' roster was so bad that Cousins took less coin to join the Vikings, much to the chagrin of @Warfish.  The Jets seemed to dodge a bullet, trading three 2nd rounders to eventually take Darnold.  However, the best QB in the draft, at least to this point, has clearly been Lamar Jackson.  

One day we'll stop complaining about the QBs Macc passed on and concentrate on the one he drafted.

This is just getting whiney at this point

Nah

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8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

One day we'll stop complaining about the QBs Macc passed on and concentrate on the one he drafted.

This is just getting whiney at this point

When these points were brought up at the time, they were slammed as defeatistism and SOJF-ism. Let me ask: where exactly is this mythic Goldilocks zone where it is neither too early nor too late to criticize awful Jet decisions?:

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5 hours ago, jgb said:

But all of them? While desperate for a QB? And picking top ten in the draft like five years in a row?

This is a lot of faith in a guy whose draft skill we know very little about 

In addition, have you considered that it is possible for both the OL to be terrible (it is) and Darnold not to be “the guy”? We have conclusively established that Darnold isn’t very good with a terrible offensive line. Fair enough, that is true of most QBs. That does not mean he will automatically be great or even good with a better one. It’s fine to have hope but let’s call it what it is.

This is a very poor excuse to whiff so obviously in the draft time and time again

No. Rosen was an obvious bust from the start and Macc still would’ve taken him if Giants didn’t go Barkley. We are still recovering from the near miss. Also consider if Rosen was brought here we would be hearing all the same excuses for his lousy performance as we hear now for Sam. Don’t kid yourself this is a fan base that thought Geno got a raw deal here.

Apparently so is foresight in this case

Say something critical with foresight, you are a “SOJF defeatist loser.”

Say something critical after the fact, you are “beating a dead horse.”

That’s how JN deals with those that criticize the Jets while being oblivious to the obvious irony that the ultimate defeatism is arguing that no matter who we drafted, we would’ve ruined them anyway so therefore everything is irrelevant.

Waitaminute... We should be happy we drafted Jamal but Dave Gettleman is a fool for drafting the OROTY last year...

I banged the table for Tannehill to be brought in last off season.

#hindsight

Of course the person that is happiest that Ryan Tannehill was not reunited with Adam Gase is Ryan Tannehill.

Add several defensive head coaches in a row and we still haven’t had an elite defense in that decade 

I’m thrilled we drafted a player that made All Pro twice in his first three seasons. If you are not, that’s all I need to know about your football knowledge.

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I like Darnold and think for the Jets they got the right guy.  They were not going to be able to coach the mobile QBs 

I am more worked up about all of the other players the Jets passed on.  Looks the All Pro and playoff team rosters and the players that the Jets just missed on because they wanted to pick stiffs.   Quick examples-Godwin, Cook, Elflein (Stewart), Kittle (Hansen), Kendricks (Hackenberg).  
 

It is a long list. 

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