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Rooney Rule: Minority Coaches getting shut out yet again.


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There was in interesting point that the problem isn’t as much with the owners anymore as it is with the head coaches opting to hire their buddies as OC and QB coaches, which is where the HC pipeline n

We all know the Rooney Rule was created to protect the NFL from a lawsuit and really not much more.  But even having said that, it's quite clear that teams are seemingly going out of their way to hire

I am astounded that we still have these discussions. Most teams hire and fire coaches based on the belief that they are the best choice to try and win. Hiring because of race is the last thing that cr

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32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Strange that Richard wasn't even interviewed this time around, at least not from what I saw.  I get that Jason Garrett was on his way out, but that shouldn't have impacted Richard's reputation.  He was the DB Coach AND Passing Game Coordinator this year, a year where Dak Prescott had his best season in the league.  And of course he was in charge of the Legion of Boom in Seattle.

Then again based on what I mentioned in the OP, perhaps it isn't all that surprising that Richard wasn't a consideration. Hell, Richard was even passed up for a promotion for his own team.  He wasn't elevated to DC.  Mike Nolan got that job.  I get that McCarthy and Nolan have a long relationship, but that's kind of the point:  This is still a "good old boys" league.  Nepotism and Despotism rule the hiring process, and minority coaches tend to get factored out of those relationships.

I understand your point but the Cowboys is the last example you should give.  They underachieve this year.  The secondary was a joke.  MM was the premier HC this year.  They hire the most qualified HC, a smart move by a smart organization and Mike Nolan have been one of the best defensive mind in the NFL.  

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Nepotism is the reason so many people get jobs? Who would've thought

 

Edit: forced diversity is a sham. I get that the rule is well-intended, but if I were a minority and was interviewing for HC positions, I would hate going in knowing that I'm simply a pawn being used to appease the rule and not a legitimate candidate for the job. I imagine that would be even more infuriating than simply not getting a job, or being passed up due to my race. At the very least, it's patronizing as ****.

 

Tl;dr - pick the guy who is best qualified for the job.

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1 hour ago, Apache 51 said:

There has always been talk about Duce as a potential candidate. Might be better off just where he is in Philly. Some guys don't want the responsibility. I think he will get his chance eventually, if he wants.

I don’t buy this.  Rhule just got 60M for 7 years.  Everyone wants that.  Everyone.  Rhule is generationally wealthy now even if he’s Kotite.  It’s irrelevant.  He is, as some may say, “Rich AF.”  I’m struggling to find anyone who would pass on that when it’s guaranteed.

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

I don’t buy this.  Rhule just got 60M for 7 years.  Everyone wants that.  Everyone.  Rhule is generationally wealthy now even if he’s Kotite.  It’s irrelevant.  He is, as some may say, “Rich AF.”  I’m struggling to find anyone who would pass on that when it’s guaranteed.

No black HC is ever getting 7 years for 60 mil or 10 years whatever mil Gruden got. 

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One area the Johnsons have actually been good with.  Hired Herm, who brought in an AA DC.  Later on, hired Bowles, who also hired an AA DC.  IMO the big issue now is that teams are not hiring AA Offensive Coordinators.  There are a fair amt of AA DCs.  Byron Leftwhich is the last I can remember in terms of an OC actually managing an offense.  The guy on the KC staff just seems like he's Reid's admin assistant.  Hiring OCs is all the rage.  Like it or not, OCs tend to be former QBs.  The amount of AA QBs who have been brought up in pro style systems is obviously limited.  I don't think this will change much going forward, unless the NFL forces it.    

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41 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

But this is exactly what's been happening.  If Owners really cared about this stuff, Eric Bieniemy would have a HC job right now.  He's more than qualified.  

You would think with so many black QB's, there'd be more black QB Coaches and OC's.  But that progress has been slow.  Hue Jackson, who I at least like as a person, brought this up during his hiring press conference with the Browns.  

If this was a true meritocracy there would be no complaints.  But it's very clearly not.  This stat alone that I mentioned in the first post proves that there's at least some form of bias towards white coaches in the NFL:

 

 

My response, as I believe, I will not post as it may be misinterpreted.  BUT I look at REX and I would say being a great player or just a coordinator is one thing.  A HC requires much more skill that is developed off the field. Dealing with management, pressure, adversity, etc.  Look at Tomlin, his communication skills are solid and I imagine behind the scenes it is the same.  Those skills are hard to find in athletes.

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This will undoubtedly rub some of you the wrong way I'm sure. I want everyone to know I'm just stating numbers you can find from the Census. 

American population is 12% black. 

NFL head coach population 12% are black.

The numbers fall right in line with the proportionate makeup of the population that each race populates. 

Technically, if you want to make an appropriate argument, Latinos are 16% of the population. So there should be more Latino coaches than black coaches.

Then factor in then sheer lack of Latinos that play football in general, and it's easy to see why these arent a represented properly. 

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3 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I think we should pass legislation to make it a federal crime to not hire minority coaches. Say, out of 5 open positions one owner must hire a minority. If he does not, off to prison he goes. 5 yrs minimum for a hate crime. 

Taking it one step further, for a 5 year period make it mandatory that all open HC positions get filled by a minority.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because the data supports the idea that discrimination is going on.  Ignore it all you'd like, but its readily available, and thus these discussions will occur until the league proves otherwise.

"Most teams" don't hire on a meritocracy.  A few do.  But certainly not "most".  

The data also suggests discrimination against caucasian players. How are we going to level that one off? Look, the best people for the position. End of story. 

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1 hour ago, DonCorleone said:

I am astounded that we still have these discussions. Most teams hire and fire coaches based on the belief that they are the best choice to try and win. Hiring because of race is the last thing that crosses my mind. I cannot believe that we are still insinuating racism in a league that is mostly composed of minorities and is vastly diverse. Personally, I've had enough of the BS accusations. 

In addition to coaches, both head and assistant, Brandon Weeden and Brock Osweiler were drafted ahead of Russell Wilson, Paxton Lynch, Christian Hackenberg, Cody Kessler, and Connor Cook were drafted ahead of Dak Prescott, Mitch Trubisky was drafted in front of Watson and Mahommes, and Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were drafted in front of Lamar Jackson.

But please, tell us more about the meritocracy in the NFL when it comes to jobs requiring thinking...

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18 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

FWIW I'd totally be on board with the league randomly choosing a black guy as the next Jets head coach over whomever the Johnson's think is a good idea.

That's how you get Jim Caldwell. Nice man. Makes Bowles look absolutely frenetic on the sideline. 

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4 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

The data also suggests discrimination against caucasian players. 

LOL what?

Compare the pool of talent at the HS/Collegiate Levels to what we see in the NFL, and the ratio stays about intact.  That's not discrimination.  If, say, 75 % of the talent at HS/College levels are minority players, and 75 % are minority players in the NFL, that's not discrimination.  

Meanwhile, in a league with so many minority players, why are there so few minority coaches?  Does it not stand to reason that most coaches are former players?

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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

In addition to coaches, both head and assistant, Brandon Weeden and Brock Osweiler were drafted ahead of Russell Wilson, Paxton Lynch, Christian Hackenberg, Cody Kessler, and Connor Cook were drafted ahead of Dak Prescott, Mitch Trubisky was drafted in front of Watson and Mahommes, and Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were drafted in front of Lamar Jackson.

But please, tell us more about the meritocracy in the NFL when it comes to jobs requiring thinking...

Some people just won’t get it even when you lay it all out there. 

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9 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Perfect. I, for one, am thrilled to finally get the white male perspective on this whole issue. 

Is it not true that for change to happen, white males have to be part of the solution, since we're the ones with the most privilege and the most capability to make change happen?

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42 minutes ago, BrickzNY said:

 

42 minutes ago, BrickzNY said:

Jets hired Gase because Chris Johnson is an idiot. Bieniemy/Monken/Rhule/Richard/Caldwell were all much better hires for this team for many reasons. The hiring of Gase has nothing to do with color, but this is just in response to the Rooney Rule nonsense. Todd Bowles had many issues with in-game coaching and while he was a great leader, he didn’t get the job done and they moved on. But you can’t tell me they gave Bowles every chance to succeed with the crap QBs and O Line and weapons they gave him. Yet they gave Gase the whole franchise and he’s getting every chance to be successful. I just want it to be the same for everyone. 

:bwahaharoll:

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3 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

That's how you get Jim Caldwell. Nice man. Makes Bowles look absolutely frenetic on the sideline. 

Yeah I’d hate to have a coach who was fired going 9-7. Look at that lions team since they fired Caldwell. That’s what they deserve. 

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14 minutes ago, JTJet said:

This will undoubtedly rub some of you the wrong way I'm sure. I want everyone to know I'm just stating numbers you can find from the Census. 

American population is 12% black. 

NFL head coach population 12% are black.

The numbers fall right in line with the proportionate makeup of the population that each race populates. 

 

68 % of the NFL are black players (28 % white, 4 % Asian/Hispanic).  Yet 12 % of the head coaches are black.  That's not proportional when you consider most NFL HC's were former players.

I'm not saying the NFL needs to have 68 % black coaches.  But 12 % is far too low.  And take a look at the # of OC's and QB Coaches that are black/minority.  That's a big part of the problem too.

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1 hour ago, BrickzNY said:

Kris Richard should’ve been our head coach, but because dumb fans wanted an offensive mind we got Gase and his 32nd ranked offense. You need a leader of men. Not someone who only works with one side of the ball and is trash at doing that. Richard/Caldwell should’ve been the two coaches we really looked at. Bieniemy would’ve been option number 3. I will scream this when Gase is fired next season. I only bring this up because Jets interviewed Richard/Bieniemy/Caldwell and passed on all of them. The Rooney rule is a joke. 

Um, Kris Richard just got fired. Because his Defense underperformed.  And Jim Caldwell is a joke, along with the rule. 

Bowles wasn't horrible, but he was saddled with a terrible GM, and his catatonic demeanor on game day was a terrible look. He'll get another shot. Marvin Lewis got over a decade, and probably was retained  about 3 years too long. 

 

Eric Bienemy and Byron Leftwich will both get shots. But Matt Rhule for $10M a year for 7 years? LOL Wut?

 

And the guy who worked for Bellichick? Really, Giants? 

 

The underlying problem is stupidity,  not racism. 

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2 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Um, Kris Richard just got fired. Because his Defense underperformed. 

Kris Richard was not the DC for Dallas, he was the DB Coach.  And he was also the Passing Game Coordinator.  Dak Prescott just had a career year.  

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1 minute ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

 

The underlying problem is stupidity,  not racism. 

Agreed... what a business the NFL is. Where the majority of owners made a shlt ton of money either through inheritance or a completely different business.  Doesn't necessarily make you a good owner. I like the way the packers are run.  A public company, with a board of directors.  

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55 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Rooney rule acknowledges institutional racism in the NFL.  It was never intended to change it.

I'll push back on this on a little bit with a couple questions/thoughts?

I think that owners are greedy rich guys who want to win at all costs.  I think they will hire, draft, employ whoever they think gives them the best chance to win and make more money.  I'm not naive enough to think that some owners don't have prejudices, but I do not think that owners will hire a lesser candidate because of his race.  In an ultra-competitive business like pro sports I don't think an owner would shrink the pool of coaching options available to him just because of race.  If they did, they'd be at a disadvantage to other owners and would likely not be interested in owning a NFL football team.  It would be like deciding that the team shouldn't draft any left-handed players.....why do that?  Why shrink the prospect pool.  These guys are NFL owners because they've achieved a lot, made tons of money, etc.  If they directed their GMs to not hire black candidates, to not draft black players, etc. they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.  It would be like a guy running a hedge fund arbitrarily saying, "I want to run a portfolio invested in the best tech companies in the world....but ignore any companies that don't have a white CEO," so they can't invest in Microsoft, etc.  Maybe I'm missing something but even boiling it down to raw human nature and assuming the worst about people I'd say that if some owners DO harbor prejudices, racism, etc. then their greed outweighs it.

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18 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

My response, as I believe, I will not post as it may be misinterpreted.  BUT I look at REX and I would say being a great player or just a coordinator is one thing.  A HC requires much more skill that is developed off the field. Dealing with management, pressure, adversity, etc.  Look at Tomlin, his communication skills are solid and I imagine behind the scenes it is the same.  Those skills are hard to find in athletes.

In 2016, 30 of the 32 NFL Head Coaches were former players who at minimum played at the Collegiate level.  

The other 2 played at the High School level.  

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Blah blah blah. Owners would hire a one legged gay black Muslim chick if they thought she could win them a championship. 
There’s plenty of black coaches, coordinators, assistance, QBs, trainers etc. Stop whining and let the best person get the job. 

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Kris Richard was not the DC for Dallas, he was the DB Coach.  And he was also the Passing Game Coordinator.  Dak Prescott just had a career year.  

Jameis Winston just threw for 5100 yards and his coach cant wait to get rid of him. Pointless stats. Want a stat? Kris Richard allowed Darnold to throw for almost 400 yards on his pass defense. 

 

But he should get hired as HC just because Jetsfan80 says so. OK. 

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