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Rooney Rule: Minority Coaches getting shut out yet again.

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45 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

common sense isnt a real thing? really...haha hey man agree to disagree...

Correct.  And it’s not, “agree to disagree,” it’s, there’s actual research to support what I’m telling you, whether that interests you or not is the only thing that’s up for debate.

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1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

I seen it. He was comparing white and non white coaches. Do you have stats on white coaches that were rehired over Joseph, Bowels, Jackson and Wilks?

I can try and dig it up. May take awhile longer though, gotta research who was a candidate at the time etc. 

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41 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Who was the Giants Rooney rule candidate? 

who cares

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Hello its your friendly fat moderator fellow to inform you we still don't allow politics and will have to ban anyone being overtly racist. I want to keep this open because for the most part its a good thread. Please don;t screw it up. I love each and everyone of you. 

 

0CBB25A1-AC83-4847-BD69-25887A3D65D3.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But they are.  lol. 

Based on all their sub .500 records? 

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39 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Correct.  And it’s not, “agree to disagree,” it’s, there’s actual research to support what I’m telling you, whether that interests you or not is the only thing that’s up for debate.

WRONG....

Maybe more like you just don't understand stuff.

sorry Ted.

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7 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

WRONG....

Maybe more like you just don't understand stuff.

sorry Ted.

“Wrong” is an excellent counterpoint, very thoughtful and well researched.

Dunning Kruger would be a good place to start.

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Just now, TeddEY said:

“Wrong” is an excellent counterpoint, very thoughtful and well researched.

Dunning Kruger would be a good place to start.

look idk who Dunning Kruger is but just because someone doesn't agree with your non sense doesn't mean they are attacking you bud. I assume Dunning Kruger is some sort of put-down or slight....pretty common move with people who think they are better than everyone else.  Especially when they are trying to explain their dumb ass sh*t.

You can try again if you want but the result will be the same.

 

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I hate to sound like the racist in the room, but honestly I think there aren't enough minority candidates being interviewed for two reasons:

1) There aren't enough former players/minorities trying to get into coaching when their playing days are over. 

2) Among minority coaches currently in the league there just isn't enough talent. The minority coaches in the league aren't setting themselves apart from others. Example: Todd Bowles became a good candidate based on the work and results he produced for the Cardinals. I'm not seeing that right now?

The cream rises to the top no matter what and minority coaches are no exception. As minority coaches manage to get themselves identified for a great, unique offense/defense/special teams they'll almost immediately become the next new hot coaching commodity.

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24 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

“Wrong” is an excellent counterpoint, very thoughtful and well researched.

Dunning Kruger would be a good place to start.

the irony

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42 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

look idk who Dunning Kruger is but just because someone doesn't agree with your non sense doesn't mean they are attacking you bud. I assume Dunning Kruger is some sort of put-down or slight....pretty common move with people who think they are better than everyone else.  Especially when they are trying to explain their dumb ass sh*t.

You can try again if you want but the result will be the same.

1418526817_DunningKrugerChart.jpg.db128769147fd4e67a190bfddc9cc3ea.jpg

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common sense isnt a real thing? really...haha hey man agree to disagree...


Common sense only comes as a result of the scientific process. It’s always changing based on new information.

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This is a gigantic leap of logic. This is about as far from "clear as day" as it gets. 
There are many determining factors as to why those coaches got other opportunities or not, just to name a few, 
- How badly their first stint went. 
- How many coaching vacancies were open, when they actually came around to interviewing again. 
- How many other hot candidates they were up against. 
- Did they rebound well as a coordinator after they were let go.
- Did they interview well. 
- Did their skillset (offense/defense) fit what the new teams were looking for. 
 
All the minority head coaches fired,
Didnt get a second chance (yet).
Bowles. Joseph. Jackson. Wilks.
46-83 combined. Every one was terrible. 
Got second chances,
Rhodes. Edwards. Dungy. Rivera. Green. Shell. 
350-280 combined. Every one was good. 
See the difference? This tells us that if you perform, you are more likely to get rehired. Not because you are black or white. 
The only one I would consider an outlier being Marvin Lewis. He should definitely be coaching. 
If Tomlin were let go this year (as speculated earlier in the season) He would have been hired by the end of Black Monday, before anyone else. 
"Clear as day" lol



You’re looking for individual reasons to pick apart the numbers.

I’m showing you a big picture look at what’s going on. When a sample gets large enough, those little variables you’re cherry picking get washed out.

That’s the beauty of numbers. Raise the sample large enough and they don’t lie.
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5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Ask @Nolder for another D&D game!

We can if you guys want but I think Crusher wants to play mafia first.

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1 hour ago, Big_Slick said:

According to the U.S. Census Bureau African Americans represent 13.4 percent of the population. There are 32 HC jobs at any one time.

13.4 percent of 32 is 4.48. 

How a candidate presents themselves during the interview process is most likely the determining factor in deciding who gets hired and not their color, race or religion.

And 75% of NFL players are Black

 

Your point?

 

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Who? Besides Tomlin and Dungy?  Bowles?

Flores?

Lewis?

Vance Joseph?

Ray Rhodes?

Leslie Frazier?

Perry Fewell?.....they all sucked, and ended up fired for (Flores is next) good reason. Am I wrong?

 

 

 

Bieniemy and Kris Richard, for starters. And yes, Frazier at least merited consideration after the great year the Buffalo D just had.

 

You really think Flores is close to getting fired? The front office was trying to lose and that team vastly exceeded expectations down the stretch.

 

Byron Leftwich is a candidate to watch down the road. He’s one of the few minority QB OCs out there.

 

Others to consider:

 

* George Edwards (Vikings DC)

* David Culley (Ravens Assistant HC/WR Coach)

* Robert Saleh (49ers DC)

* Jon Embree (49ers Assistant HC)

* Richard Hightower (49ers ST Coach)

* Duce Staley (Eagles RB Coach)

 

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49 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I hate to sound like the racist in the room, but honestly I think there aren't enough minority candidates being interviewed for two reasons:

1) There aren't enough former players/minorities trying to get into coaching when their playing days are over. 

2) Among minority coaches currently in the league there just isn't enough talent. The minority coaches in the league aren't setting themselves apart from others. Example: Todd Bowles became a good candidate based on the work and results he produced for the Cardinals. I'm not seeing that right now?

The cream rises to the top no matter what and minority coaches are no exception. As minority coaches manage to get themselves identified for a great, unique offense/defense/special teams they'll almost immediately become the next new hot coaching commodity.

1) not true

2) so it’s Todd Bowles’ fault?  Then why didn’t Rich Kotite hurt white head coaching candidates?

 

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45 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

1418526817_DunningKrugerChart.jpg.db128769147fd4e67a190bfddc9cc3ea.jpg

And guess which one of us is an actual, real life, expert on this subject?

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According to the U.S. Census Bureau African Americans represent 13.4 percent of the population. There are 32 HC jobs at any one time. 13.4 percent of 32 is 4.48. 

How a candidate presents themselves during the interview process is most likely the determining factor in deciding who gets hired and not their color, race or religion.

 

 

Again, 68 % of the NFL is made up of black players. The NFL population and demographics are not comparable to the US population.

 

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How do you know? Are you in the meeting when they’re deciding who to interview?

 

I really don’t need to be in the room to determine that, say, Kris Richard deserved consideration outside of simply fulfilling the Rooney Rule requirement. His resume speaks for itself.

 

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21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Bieniemy and Kris Richard, for starters. And yes, Frazier at least merited consideration after the great year the Buffalo D just had.

 

You really think Flores is close to getting fired? The front office was trying to lose and that team vastly exceeded expectations down the stretch.

 

Byron Leftwich is a candidate to watch down the road. He’s one of the few minority QB OCs out there.

 

Others to consider:

 

* George Edwards (Vikings DC)

* David Culley (Ravens Assistant HC/WR Coach)

* Robert Saleh (49ers DC)

* Jon Embree (49ers Assistant HC)

* Richard Hightower (49ers ST Coach)

* Duce Staley (Eagles RB Coach)

 

I'd take Gase over all the guys you just mentioned man, and I hate Gase.

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I'd take Gase over all the guys you just mentioned man, and I hate Gase.



lol what? That’s absurd.

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41 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 


You’re looking for individual reasons to pick apart the numbers.

I’m showing you a big picture look at what’s going on. When a sample gets large enough, those little variables you’re cherry picking get washed out.

That’s the beauty of numbers. Raise the sample large enough and they don’t lie.

 

 

What am I cherry picking? I just gave you literally all the numbers. 

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Again.  14 % of white NFL HCs who get fired end up getting second HC chances, compared to 7 % for their black counterparts.  That's as clear as day discriminatory.  

How many coaches are we talking? Not familiar with the data but it seems not so likely that there is enough to be mathematically proven 

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6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

We’re not talking about the parents.  The conversation is about advantages conferred at birth.  You are lucky to have those which you have.

But their "luck" was made by thier parents whose genes they share. Its earned.

Thats the way I see it anyway, doesnt mean i disagree with you that you have a league up if your family tree did well but its not random

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Again, 68 % of the NFL is made up of black players. The NFL population and demographics are not comparable to the US population.

 

Do you actually think that the head coaching population should directly mirror the demographics of the players? If so, why?

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3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And 75% of NFL players are Black

 

Your point?

 

The NFL needs a Rooney Rule to give the white players a chance.

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13 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't really have a comment on the Rooney rule, but Ron Rivera is Latino/Hispanic.  He is not the poster boy for whitey getting jobs in the NFL.  The Giants also kept Jerry Reese well past his sell by date.

Have the Giants ever hired a black head coach?

Have the Jets ever put a black person in position to be their franchise QB by either drafting one high, trading for one or signing one to be the starter?

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Well there are some that just don't seem to want to put themselves forward for NFL jobs.

I would be surprised if David Shaw would not get a job pretty quick if he wanted one in the NFL.

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6 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

The NFL needs a Rooney Rule to give the white players a chance.

 

On 1/7/2020 at 8:37 PM, Big_Slick said:

politics do not belong on a football forum.

 

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