Is the NFL really a "passing league"? Let's take a look at the teams in the playoffs...

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

It's equally nonsense to say you need a lot more to go right of you're a run first team. A dominant OL, running game, and a good defense can set the time in any game and control the tempo from start to finish.

But that's just it.  Look at all the things you just listed that you need for that strategy to work:  A dominant OL, running game and defense.  That's up to 17 spots on the field you need to invest heavy resources in.

Obviously if you can GET all those things it can work for a time.  But that's rare.  And eventually, even if your QB isn't very good, you'll still have to pay him big coin, further hindering your ability to build that dominant OL and defense.  

[NYJ1]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But that's just it.  Look at all the things you just listed that you need for that strategy to work:  A dominant OL, running game and defense.  That's up to 17 spots on the field you need to invest heavy resources in.

Obviously if you can GET all those things it can work for a time.  But that's rare.  And eventually, even if your QB isn't very good, you'll still have to pay him big coin, further hindering your ability to build that dominant OL and defense.  

And that dominant OL, running game, and defense is what EVERY team strives to have. Not every team has a QB for the ages, but some of those teams still win SB's. Why? Because they use a great mix of defense, a strong running game, and mix in measured amounts of play action passing.

[King P]

Balance wins championships. Always has, always will.

For example the Bucs have a great passing game, but a terrible run game and terrible defense.

The 4 teams that are in the playoffs that could run the ball also have excellent defenses and could also pass a bit too.

The reason I'm picking the Chiefs vs the 49ers in the SB, is because those 2 have the best balance of all 3.

Defense will ALWAYS matter, regardless of whatever narrative the talking are trying to push on y'all 

[Lith]

Seen a couple of threads like this.  Good teams have leads in the second half.  You run more late to protect leads.  Therefore good teams rush for more yardage.  Bad teams trail late in games and have to throw to come back.  Bad teams throw for a lot of yardage and run for less.

Bottom line - throw out the stats.  Better teams are well balanced.  They can throw when they need to and run when they need to and play solid defense when they need to.

[Jetsfan80]

And that dominant OL, running game, and defense is what EVERY team strives to have. Not every team has a QB for the ages, but some of those teams still win SB's. Why? Because they use a great mix of defense, a strong running game, and mix in measured amounts of play action passing.

Teams with excellent QBs don’t need an elite D on the other side to win titles. We’ve seen plenty of SB winners merely have “good enough” defenses.

[themeangreenkillingmachine]

16 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Understood, but are Cousins, Garropolo and Tannehill really good?  Are they really, really good?

 

Based on this year... yes. They all had career years

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, Lith said:

Seen a couple of threads like this.  Good teams have leads in the second half.  You run more late to protect leads.  Therefore good teams rush for more yardage.  Bad teams trail late in games and have to throw to come back.  Bad teams throw for a lot of yardage and run for less.

Bottom line - throw out the stats.  Better teams are well balanced.  They can throw when they need to and run when they need to and play solid defense when they need to.

Of course, but the 49ers are running today to take the lead and to extend the lead.  They're not killing the clock early in the 3rd quarter....they were up by 4 points at Halftime.  They just had a TD drive with 8 rushes, 0 passes.

I think the Vikings wish they could run Dalvin Cook a little better today and avoid having Cousins throw that INT.  There's no chance at an INT if you never throw a pass.  I think that's what Kyle Shanahan was doing on that drive.

[Lupz27]

18 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Source: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/_/view/team/season/2019/seasontype/2  ESPN Stats and Info. 2019 Regular Season

 

The Top 5 Passing and Rushing Teams in the NFL in 2019.  Playoff teams in green.  Non-playoff teams in red.  In fact, not only did the green teams make the playoffs but they include the #1 seeds from each conference and two teams that won on the road last week.  Not in the Rushing Top 5, but with a great rushing attack, the Minnesota Vikings who also won on the road last week.  Dalvin Cook, 94 yards, 2 TDs.

The #1 Ravens employ the most lethal RPO attack with Lamar Jackson and Mark Ingram.

The #1 SF 49ers?  What if I told you they employ the league's highest paid Fullback?

#GroundAndPound

 

As we say around here.....discuss!

It may not be a strictly passing league like say 2 years ago, BUT the QB position is still the most important position period.

[Lith]

36 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Of course, but the 49ers are running today to take the lead and to extend the lead.  They're not killing the clock early in the 3rd quarter....they were up by 4 points at Halftime.  They just had a TD drive with 8 rushes, 0 passes.

I think the Vikings wish they could run Dalvin Cook a little better today and avoid having Cousins throw that INT.  There's no chance at an INT if you never throw a pass.  I think that's what Kyle Shanahan was doing on that drive.

Yeah.  Not gonna argue that the running game is coming up huge for the Niners today.  But if you look at their season, they ran 58% of 4th quarter  plays and 46% through the first 3.  Suggests to me that they ran so often late in games to protect leads.

Further if you look at teams with highest yard/rush average - those that run the ball most effectively, only two of the top 7 made the playoffs.  Titans and Ravens.  Other 5 were Cards, Cowboys, Panthers, Giants & Browns.  Niners were 8.

But, teams that rush often.  6 of top 7 are playoff teams: Ravens, Niners, Vikings, Seahawks, Bills, Titans.  Only the Colts missed the playoffs.  I think this game is more the exception. 

I am not saying running game is unimportant.  Makes play action more effective, helps protect leads, convert 3rd/4th and short, score in red zone.  All of which helps you win games.  And, to counter my own argument, winning team run effectivley when everyone knows they are going to run.  Now I am just confusing myself.

Just thnk there is a bit of mixing of cause and effect in looking at all these rushing stats.

[sec101row23]

21 minutes ago, Lith said:

Yeah.  Not gonna argue that the running game is coming up huge for the Niners today.  But if you look at their season, they ran 58% of 4th quarter  plays and 46% through the first 3.  Suggests to me that they ran so often late in games to protect leads.

Further if you look at teams with highest yard/rush average - those that run the ball most effectively, only two of the top 7 made the playoffs.  Titans and Ravens.  Other 5 were Cards, Cowboys, Panthers, Giants & Browns.  Niners were 8.

But, teams that rush often.  6 of top 7 are playoff teams: Ravens, Niners, Vikings, Seahawks, Bills, Titans.  Only the Colts missed the playoffs.  I think this game is more the exception. 

I am not saying running game is unimportant.  Makes play action more effective, helps protect leads, convert 3rd/4th and short, score in red zone.  All of which helps you win games.  And, to counter my own argument, winning team run effectivley when everyone knows they are going to run.  Now I am just confusing myself.

Just thnk there is a bit of mixing of cause and effect in looking at all these rushing stats.

Agree 100%. All about balance.  

[jetstream23]

41 minutes ago, Lith said:

Yeah.  Not gonna argue that the running game is coming up huge for the Niners today.  But if you look at their season, they ran 58% of 4th quarter  plays and 46% through the first 3.  Suggests to me that they ran so often late in games to protect leads.

Further if you look at teams with highest yard/rush average - those that run the ball most effectively, only two of the top 7 made the playoffs.  Titans and Ravens.  Other 5 were Cards, Cowboys, Panthers, Giants & Browns.  Niners were 8.

But, teams that rush often.  6 of top 7 are playoff teams: Ravens, Niners, Vikings, Seahawks, Bills, Titans.  Only the Colts missed the playoffs.  I think this game is more the exception. 

I am not saying running game is unimportant.  Makes play action more effective, helps protect leads, convert 3rd/4th and short, score in red zone.  All of which helps you win games.  And, to counter my own argument, winning team run effectivley when everyone knows they are going to run.  Now I am just confusing myself.

Just thnk there is a bit of mixing of cause and effect in looking at all these rushing stats.

That's what I've always thought was the hallmark of a dominant team.  When the opponent knows you're going to run and you still CAN run it for at least 4-5 yards.  Those teams win playoff games.  The 49ers had no secrets here today.....the ran, ran, ran...again, again and again.  Minnesota, a good team with a good D, couldn't do anything about it.

We're going to see if the Titans can make that happen tonight too.

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

That's what I've always thought was the hallmark of a dominant team.  When the opponent knows you're going to run and you still CAN run it for at least 4-5 yards.  Those teams win playoff games.  The 49ers had no secrets here today.....the ran, ran, ran...again, again and again.  Minnesota, a good team with a good D, couldn't do anything about it.

We're going to see if the Titans can make that happen tonight too.

Good post, jetstream23.

Sincerely,

@SAR I

[New York Mick]

So far RBs are winning the games but the real QBs are coming up so we’ll we see how things change. 

[BrickzNY]

This is why analytics is garbage. Stats don’t give you the whole picture. You need a passing game and a running game. There’s really nothing else to be discussed.

[CTM]

The #1 rushing team just got destroyed, turns out this was fake news

[CTM]

9 minutes ago, BrickzNY said:

This is why analytics is garbage

Stupid math nerds proven wrong again. 

[Larz]

All you need to win a super bowl is everything. 
 

You have to have great coaches and game plans, great players, injury luck, and more 50/50 calls go for you than against you. 
 

you have to be able to win in a dome with a fast track and in snow

you have to be able to adapt to opponents with different strengths 

the nfl is a chess match at the end of the day. How do you use your strengths and hide your weaknesses 

[King P]

7 minutes ago, CTM said:

The #1 rushing team just got destroyed, turns out this was fake news

By the #3 rushing team lol

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

Stupid math nerds proven wrong again. 

Anti-analytics people are kind of like flat earth advocates of modern times. 

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Anti-analytics people are kind of like flat earth advocates of modern times. 

I'm sure there's plenty of overlap within the groups

[BettyBoop]

The "secret" is you need a balanced team.  Period.

[CTM]

1 hour ago, King P said:

By the #3 rushing team lol

Exactly, the inferior rushing team took down the superior one. This clearly shows that the better you are at running the ball the more likely you are to lose