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The Truth About Sam Darnold


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5 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

Sam will be fine once he gets an offense to work with him. That's what I keep telling myself.

I think it’s a legit way of thinking.  Look I’ve admitted that Sam has things he needs to fix but the skill is definitely there.   One thing about the playoffs I’ve noticed is how much time all these QBs have to make a decision. So far in his first two years Sam hasn’t  had that.  It’s not an excuse but it’s legit.  Obviously adding a couple more weapons will help too.  But for me the biggest thing is giving him note time. 

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I’ve always felt this way, even when it was Baker getting his nuts washed last year instead of Lamar this year.  Pls don’t get me wrong, Darnold hasn’t done a damn thing yet. He hasn’t thrown for

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On 1/12/2020 at 9:57 AM, greenwichjetfan said:

Of course not but on this board “cherry picking” only applies to Sam. When certain posters talk about the greatness of Baker, Lamar, Allen, Deshaun; it’s all “cherry picked” as well. I can go back and find some absolute stinkers for all of them too. The only QB over the last few years who you don’t have to “cherry pick” stats for is Mahomes.

Sam hasn’t had the highs that others have had, and his low (pats game) is one of the lowest I’ve ever seen from any QB. But as I showed in another thread, when you take out his best and worst games, the bulk of his games are solid. When you factor in the team that he plays on, it’s optimistic, even when considering his opponents in the good games.

Lets all keep in mind that while Mahomes talent/execution is unheralded, his team should be labeled the "Greatest show on earth 2.0" since every time I watch them it is like the same track meet I used to see with the Rams with Warner, Isaac, etc. back then. Without those weapons on KC, Hill, Kelce, etc. not sure Mahomes even though unbelievable would look nearly as good. 

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

I think Rosen seems to be the only outright bust in the group so far.  Jackson looks solid, Allen has proven to be a dual threat but not an elite passer (and took his team to the playoffs), Darnold and Mayfield have shown flashes of greatness and also several moments of ineptitude.

 

Allen's team took him to the playoffs. Mayfield outright sucked this year with elite talent around him.  The class isn't close to as good as the year before despite the hype.  

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

The Truth about Sam Darnold is that if all NFL QB's and 2020 Draft Eligible QB's were redrafted today in a special "only QB's" Draft, Sam would not be picked in the top 20.

Prove me wrong.

Immediately contacts all NFL GMs to schedule a mock draft with all current NFL QBs and 2020 QB prospects.

Will get back to you.  Looking at a Feb. 27th as a possible date for this but Dave Gettleman has a conflict right now.

:P

 

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35 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I think it’s a legit way of thinking.  Look I’ve admitted that Sam has things he needs to fix but the skill is definitely there.   One thing about the playoffs I’ve noticed is how much time all these QBs have to make a decision. So far in his first two years Sam hasn’t  had that.  It’s not an excuse but it’s legit.  Obviously adding a couple more weapons will help too.  But for me the biggest thing is giving him note time. 

And that's in playoff games against the best competition.

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8 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

@JiF has a hatred for Mayfield that has gone beyond obsessive.  It's reached a level that's just irrational.

For you, of all people, to call me irrational on the QB position is the most absurd thing ever posted on this board.  

And dont try to bait me into this.  You've become nothing but a troll.  My real opinion is out there, not my fault you only pay attention to my obvious histrionics. 

 

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

For you, of all people, to call me irrational on the QB position is the most absurd thing ever posted on this board.  

And dont try to bait me into this.  You've become nothing but a troll.  My real opinion is out there, not my fault you only pay attention to my obvious histrionics. 

 

Going to sit back, prop up my feet, and watch how this all plays out.....

:hap:

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9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Going to sit back, prop up my feet, and watch how this all plays out.....

:hap:

You're going to be disappointed. I'm not going to react to the negative rep, or reply to the "troll" stuff.

I'll just stand by what I said.

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If this were an "all NFL" forum,  a generic NFL forum, not a Jets Fan forum......how would a "Sam Darnold is a top 5 QB after 2019" thread go, do you all think?

Would the idea get alot of traction and support from fans of other teams, you think?  Or is the "Sam is Elite right now, just look at 6-2!" concept really just a homer Jets Fan thing other non-Jets fans would laugh at?

I say it alot, but it's very informative listening to national media and non-NY media sources, to be outside the insulated local bubble.  Because no one outside that bubble ever mentions Sam Darnold.  Ever.  Unless it's literally a game Sam is actually playing in, when media and sports people are discussing QB's, best QB's, future QB's, Sam's name (in my experience) never seems to come up.  

It certainly doesn't come up as him being top 5 or top 10 in the NFL today.  

I think getting out of the bubble once in a while would do alot of you some good, give you some perspective being inundated all day long by NY local sources cannot provide.

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59 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

sam is not a bust but mayfield, who is statistcally superior, is? ffs. thats dumb as hell.

Mayfield stats this year were terrible compared to Sam's.  Mayfield had elite talent at WR and RB and good talent at TE.   He's OL was miles better.  He ranked 31 in completion percentage, he had the 2nd most INT's behind Winston and he ranked 28th in adjusted yards per completion.  FYI he was 31 in QR, Darnold wasn't that much better at 27.  

Mayfield stunk this year, the team absolutely gave up.  You combine his actually play which was putrid with his leadership which was nonexistent and he isn't remotely in the same conversation with Darnold.  

I may be dumb but dumb is still smarter than brain dead.

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11 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Going to sit back, prop up my feet, and watch how this all plays out.....

:hap:

He's not worth it.  There is a reason I wont talk QB's with him and he knows that but he tags me, says some stupid inaccurate garbage but then proceeds to act like he's the bigger man with his passive aggressive response to you but not me....the guy he tagged!?!?!?

lol 

Trolls are going to troll.  He brings this sh*t into every single thread too.  Did it in another thread that had nothing to do with QB's because he's a worthless troll. 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If this were an "all NFL" forum,  a generic NFL forum, not a Jets Fan forum......how would a "Sam Darnold is a top 5 QB after 2019" thread go, do you all think?

Would the idea get alot of traction and support from fans of other teams, you think?  Or is the "Sam is Elite right now, just look at 6-2!" concept really just a homer Jets Fan thing other non-Jets fans would laugh at?

I say it alot, but it's very informative listening to national media and non-NY media sources, to be outside the insulated local bubble.  Because no one outside that bubble ever mentions Sam Darnold.  Ever.  Unless it's literally a game Sam is actually playing in, when media and sports people are discussing QB's, best QB's, future QB's, Sam's name (in my experience) never seems to come up.  

It certainly doesn't come up as him being top 5 or top 10 in the NFL today.  

I think getting out of the bubble once in a while would do alot of you some good, give you some perspective being inundated all day long by NY local sources cannot provide.

That is just simply not a true statement on any level. Over the last 6 games as an example, Kirwan started saying that he really liked what he was seeing out of Darnold and thinks he will develop into a top NFL QB. 

Romo LOVES Darnold and continues to say he will be one of the best QBs in the NFL

Baldinger is very high on Sam.  

There are a ton of others. Reality is that the National Media just doesnt really talk about the Jets in general, they talk about the Cowboys, Giants, Steelers, Patriots, Bears, Packers and whoever is hot at the time like 90% of the time.

One of the guys, one of the draft analyst guys did not like Darnold out of college but likes him now. Can remember his name. Will edit when I do.

Of course there are people like Greg Cossell who hated Darnold out of college and still think he is crap.

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1 minute ago, Jetmech said:

Unfortunately Sam has lost some of his luster after mono and MNF nonsense. He has to prove people wrong for him to get back his mojo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a shame the season ended after mono and MNF.  Would have been nice to see him take the team on a little run, maybe go like 6-2 over the last half of the season or something encouraging like that. 

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1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

That is just simply not a true statement on any level. Over the last 6 games as an example, Kirwan started saying that he really liked what he was seeing out of Darnold and thinks he will develop into a top NFL QB. 

Romo LOVES Darnold and continues to say he will be one of the best QBs in the NFL

Baldinger is very high on Sam.  

There are a ton of others. Reality is that the National Media just doesnt really talk about the Jets in general, they talk about the Cowboys, Giants, Steelers, Patriots, Bears, Packers and whoever is hot at the time like 90% of the time.

One of the guys, one of the draft analyst guys did not like Darnold out of college but likes him now. Can remember his name. Will edit when I do.

Of course there are people like Greg Cossell who hated Darnold out of college and still think he is crap.

No doubt many people like Sam and do talk about him.  Nobody in their right mind thinks Sam is a top 5 or top 10 NFL QB after this past season.  QB play in the NFL is crazy good.  This year there were 9 QB's with ratings over 100, 16 over 90.  13 QB's had completion percentages over 65 with 3 over 70.  12 QB's had over 25 TD's.  8 QB's had over 8 yards per attempt.  

The bar of elite QB is insane right now.  

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20 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

That is just simply not a true statement on any level. Over the last 6 games as an example, Kirwan started saying that he really liked what he was seeing out of Darnold and thinks he will develop into a top NFL QB. 

Develop into, maybe.  Isn't now.  Certainly not elite, special or top 5, etc. 

20 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Romo LOVES Darnold and continues to say he will be one of the best QBs in the NFL

Give me a break, Romo loves almost everyone, and he certainly doesn't love Darnold more than 20 other QB's in and coming into the NFL soon, or most of the other young QB's in the league.

20 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Reality is that the National Media just doesnt really talk about the Jets in general, they talk about the Cowboys, Giants, Steelers, Patriots, Bears, Packers and whoever is hot at the time like 90% of the time.

They don't talk about us because A. Darnold isn't that good yet and B. We suck and have sucked for a decade+ mostly.

20 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

One of the guys, one of the draft analyst guys did not like Darnold out of college but likes him now. Can remember his name. Will edit when I do.

Of course there are people like Greg Cossell who hated Darnold out of college and still think he is crap.

My comment is MUCH more passive that active.  When NFL analysists and non-NY folks are dicussing the QB position in general, Darnold sname never, ever comes up.  They name a dozen guys, but not Sam.  Jets fans have a twisted and inaccurtae view of Sam's stature outside NY's bubble, there is no question about it.  

I'll give an example, here in the DC area we have both national and local sports, same as any other major sports city.  When our local guys get into QB talk (and given this areas lolworthy QB's, it happens often enough), and they talk the league, Darnold's name never, ever comes up.  No on here in DC is saying "and wow, that Darnold kid in NY, HE is the future of the NFL!".  When they do top whatever counts, Darnold is never listed. 

This morning on NFL radio they were talking QB's and the draft, and funny enough, they listed a ton of QB's that were "great" or "the future" or "better than X or Y possible draft pick".  Did they mention Darnold?  Nope, not once.  

Again, bubble.  Get out of it.

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23 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's a shame the season ended after mono and MNF.  Would have been nice to see him take the team on a little run, maybe go like 6-2 over the last half of the season or something encouraging like that. 

How can you seriously take that 6-2 as meaningful when:

1. It was almost all against losing teams, and mostly against the worst teams in the NFL.

2. It was all Garbage Time after we were already eliminated from contention.

3. It's the exact same argument we got last year base don his "last few games", ignoring the rest.

4. You forget that Patriots Game already? Or do only the wins matter?

5. 32nd ranked Offense in the NFL, 27th rated QB in Darnold.  

The entire Darnold support basically rests on two cherry picked sections of his two years vs. bad teams late in already-lost seasons and the idea that he will be top 5 once we replace almost every player around him on offense and replace them with elite players.

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trapasso from CBS

Season Summary: Darnold's second season started with a disastrous outing against Buffalo, then he got mono. When he returned, he instantly injected life into the Jets offense, and he made a handful of impressive throws beyond 10 yards. However, most of his work was done on screens and dump offs and, in general, he did not take good care of the football. Also, his pocket presence was average, although his blocking was about the same. The flashes absolutely were there from Darnold. But so were the "what was that?" decisions and in-accurate tosses. Also, Adam Gase's offense was ultra-conservative for most of the year. Darnold had two F grades, three contests in the D range, two B outings, and one A.

Season Grade: C (75.9)

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

How can you seriously take that 6-2 as meaningful when:

1. It was almost all against losing teams, and mostly against the worst teams in the NFL.

2. It was all Garbage Time after we were already eliminated from contention.

3. It's the exact same argument we got last year base don his "last few games", ignoring the rest.

4. You forget that Patriots Game already? Or do only the wins matter?

5. 32nd ranked Offense in the NFL, 27th rated QB in Darnold.  

The entire Darnold support basically rests on two cherry picked sections of his two years vs. bad teams late in already-lost seasons and the idea that he will be top 5 once we replace almost every player around him on offense and replace them with elite players.

If you believe that him going 6-2 over the 2nd half of the season after the team started 1-7 is meaningless, then there is no reason to pursue this conversation with you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

It's a shame the season ended after mono and MNF.  Would have been nice to see him take the team on a little run, maybe go like 6-2 over the last half of the season or something encouraging like that. 

sameight.jpg

DISCLAIMER:  I made this up so give me a little latitude here, just running with your farfetched idea that Darnold bounces back from MNF and ghosts and finishes 6-2. 

In my made-up scenario, the Jets rally behind Gase (ha ha ha) and actually finish 6-2 (ha ha ha) and Sam Darnold has 15 TD's, 4 INT's, and a 93.3 QBR that was 10th in the league in the back half of the season.  Would have looked something like that chart above.

I did this for you, JiF.  I'm going to take a lot of forum heat for posting something so stupid.  But, man, if Sam only were capable of something like this in the real world.  He might turn out to be something special.

SAR I

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4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

sameight.jpg

DISCLAIMER:  I made this up so give me a little latitude here, just running with your farfetched idea that Darnold bounces back from MNF and ghosts and finishes 6-2. 

In my made-up scenario, the Jets rally behind Gase (ha ha ha) and actually finish 6-2 (ha ha ha) and Sam Darnold has 15 TD's, 4 INT's, and a 93.3 QBR that was 10th in the league in the back half of the season.  Would have looked something like that chart above.

I did this for you, JiF.  I'm going to take a lot of forum heat for posting something so stupid.  But, man, if Sam only were capable of something like this in the real world.  He might turn out to be something special.

SAR I

haha This is meaningless but you bet your bottom dollar if that "made up data" negatively reflected Sam's performance it would be very meaningful. 

 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

If you believe that him going 6-2 over the 2nd half of the season after the team started 1-7 is meaningless, then there is no reason to pursue this conversation with you.

I don't think it's meaningless.

I also don't think it's nearly as meaningful as you do.

If you want to make an argument that Darnold's beating of the Redskins when we were 2-7 and eliminated, the Skins being a worse team than us with more injuries than us, means that Darnold is X, Y or Z good thing, by all means, make that argument.

On the bright side, if you're right, and Darnold in 2020 leads us to a 10 win season, plays all 16 games for the first time, and throws for 4,000+ yards and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio, you'll have excellent evidence that Darnold IS in fact a franchise QB in the making.

Sadly, I think folks will be making preemptive excuses long before opening day for why this won;t happen and it won't be Darnold's responsability.

 

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41 minutes ago, SAR I said:

sameight.jpg

DISCLAIMER:  I made this up so give me a little latitude here, just running with your farfetched idea that Darnold bounces back from MNF and ghosts and finishes 6-2. 

In my made-up scenario, the Jets rally behind Gase (ha ha ha) and actually finish 6-2 (ha ha ha) and Sam Darnold has 15 TD's, 4 INT's, and a 93.3 QBR that was 10th in the league in the back half of the season.  Would have looked something like that chart above.

I did this for you, JiF.  I'm going to take a lot of forum heat for posting something so stupid.  But, man, if Sam only were capable of something like this in the real world.  He might turn out to be something special.

SAR I

If only we played an 8 game season, and only against the weakest schedule in the NFL you mean?

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't think it's meaningless.

I also don't think it's nearly as meaningful as you do.

If you want to make an argument that Darnold's beating of the Redskins when we were 2-7 and eliminated, the Skins being a worse team than us with more injuries than us, means that Darnold is X, Y or Z good thing, by all means, make that argument.

On the bright side, if you're right, and Darnold in 2020 leads us to a 10 win season, plays all 16 games for the first time, and throws for 4,000+ yards and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio, you'll have excellent evidence that Darnold IS in fact a franchise QB in the making.

Sadly, I think folks will be making preemptive excuses long before opening day for why this won;t happen and it won't be Darnold's responsability.

 

I really hope that Joe D holds our team accountable, I dont care that gase got him the job. He is in charge now and has to make moves. THis year should be unacceptable. But there is not talk of holding anyone on off accountable. That just plain stinks. 

G williams should be applauded for his performance and Gase should be reprimanded. At the very least the OC needs to go.

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30 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If only we played an 8 game season, and only against the weakest schedule in the NFL you mean?

ravens.jpg

11 of 16 games against weaklings.  10-1 served on a silver platter.

Should the Ravens fans give back their AFC North Champions gear?  Should the NFL have decided that the Ravens weren't worthy of the #1 seed?  Should Lamar Jackson give the MVP award to a more worthy player?

SAR I

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I once knew another QB people SAR (over)hyped up in a very similar way.  

He once went 6-2 as well over a cherry-picked 8 game stretch in a non-winning season.

He played a meaningfully harder schedule (.460 vs. Darnold's .414) over his 8 game stretch.

Numbers were pretty similar, albeit not quite the same.  

This QB went 145-253 (57%) for 1,688 (211 YPG) for 13 TD's and 6 INT's.  

Darnold's was 163-267 (61%) for 1,947 (243 YPG) for 13 TD's and 4 INT's.

We'll just have to see if Darnold ends up better than this QB did. 

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43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If only we played an 8 game season, and only against the weakest schedule in the NFL you mean?

billsscrubs.jpg

Buffalo Bills, inverse of Jets schedule, open 8-3 by playing 9 games against NFL scrubs.  Talk of the league.  McDermott is "the next great coach".  There is an AFC East "changing of the guard".  Josh Allen is "a generational quarterback".

Then they play more challenging teams and it's clear they are the Jets in blue uniforms.  Bills should give back their wildcard checks.  They didn't deserve it.

SAR I

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7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

ravens.jpg

11 of 16 games against weaklings.  10-1 served on a silver platter.

Should the Ravens fans give back their AFC North Champions gear?  Should the NFL have decided that the Ravens weren't worthy of the #1 seed?  Should Lamar Jackson give the MVP award to a more worthy player?

SAR I

The Jets were 7-5 with a healthy Darnold.  The kid is only 22, he is going to be a hell of a QB.

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15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

ravens.jpg

11 of 16 games against weaklings.  10-1 served on a silver platter.

Should the Ravens fans give back their AFC North Champions gear?  Should the NFL have decided that the Ravens weren't worthy of the #1 seed?  Should Lamar Jackson give the MVP award to a more worthy player?

SAR I

Baltimore SOS:  +0.05  

Jets SOS = -1.12, set NFL Record losing to two 0-wins teams (0-7 Phins, 0-11 Bengals, both under Darnold)

Totally the same tho.

As for Lamar giving up the MVP, I can only presume you think Darnold deserves the MVP for his amazing 8 game stretch, and Gase Coach of the Year, right?

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11 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

The Jets were 7-5 with a healthy Darnold.  The kid is only 22, he is going to be a hell of a QB.

Quarterback is one of the few areas of the team I am not concerned about at all.

Sam Darnold is the best quarterback in the AFC East.  How does he rank in the entire AFC?  Let's see:

Patrick Mahomes
Deshaun Watson
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Ryan Tannehill
Baker Mayfield
Tom Brady
Nick Foles

If Watson were great, he'd have won something by now, goes 9-7 and nothing else every year.  Jackson is Vick is Newton is RGIII, can run, can't throw, already had his special season.  Josh Allen, inaccurate, runs too much, playoff bust.  Tannehill, had his lucky season, not going to repeat, Titans probably draft a QB.  Mayfield?  LOL.  Brady?  Done.  Foles?  Please.

Darnold looks like #2 quarterback in the entire AFC to me.  Maybe #3 if you believe in Watson.  There is no reason to worry about the quarterback position in Florham Park.  We have an elite passer.  Oh, and he's 22 with two years NFL experience when he should be preparing for his USC pro day.  In a year or two, he might be the best QB in the AFC.  High fives all around.

SAR I

 

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17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Jets set NFL Record losing to two 0-wins teams (0-7 Phins, 0-11 Bengals, both under Darnold)

So you think we should have finished the year 8-1 after 1-6?  Because that's what beating the Bengals and Dolphins would have meant and I don't recall you being so bullish on the team back then.  Or are you saying it would have been more impressive if we beat the Bengals and Dolphins and lost to the Raiders and Steelers?  Let me know.

17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

As for Lamar giving up the MVP, I can only presume you think Darnold deserves the MVP for his amazing 8 game stretch, and Gase Coach of the Year, right?

League awards, no.  Team awards, yes.  I believe the 6-2 finish is one of the best performances we've seen from a HC and QB in the history of the franchise.  Especially the Jets-  we know what 1-7 usually means come January.  Usually means 3-13 and rolling heads.  The Jets don't need to do anything.  Don't need to fire a single coach, don't need to rethink the QB position.  We stand pat, get healthy, watch the Patriots fall apart, watch the Bills get exposed, and get ready to claim the first of many AFC East Championships.  That's what happens when you have the best QB in the division and a HC on his second job whose already made his rookie mistakes.

SAR I

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