Browns get their HC, Vikings former OC, Kevin Stefanski

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I’m literally listening to others on ESPN saying he had no answers, how archaic his offense was vs SF.  
im delusional, Simms etc have no clue and I’m just delusional.  
I need to get insecure 

Simms confirmed that he didnt know much about him and that he didnt get it. 

That I agree with. No one, including you, knows much about him. 

Anything outside of that is speculatory. 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So you’re wrong on every front 

I commented on his actual play.  Said it doesn’t mean he’ll always struggle but you want to convincing all of us he did t or  it was everyone else’s fault, brought Sam into it & called me insecure.  
Sorry I don’t see it that way

Im wrong on every front? lmao. 

Let me show you (for the second time today) how your perceptual and comprehension skills are poor. Look at the bolded above that you just said. 

Now look at what I just told you not too long ago. 

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

Question. These INT's were due to nothing else? 

 

 

I doubt that the only reason why he threw INT's is because he went to OU and WR's are more open there than in the pro's. The Irony in that is this...That goes for every team in college. 

I can tell that most dont watch these games at all or even take the time to find out who's actually on the field. 

David Njoku was on IR for most of the season with a broken wrist. He only played in 5 games this season. Also, when Njoku's on the field, he's one of the more inconsistent catchers of the football amongst starting TE's since being drafted. He does have slight case of "Stone hands".

OBJ had more WR errors this season than any other WR in the league not named Michael Gallup of the Cowboys. 

A high percentage of INT's that baker threw, hit the hands of his receivers. Some were slightly behind or high, (accuracy issues, no doubt) but many were catchable passes. It's not like he was out there throwing pick 6's every game (Winston). Those are obviously not counting the passes that fell harmlessly to the ground...OBJ was notorious for dropping big passes what felt like atleast once per game. 

Take these facts and add it to the fact that the Browns offense had no tackles yet wanted receivers to run deep routes and when they didnt run deep routes they immediately went to the slant route, so much so that Baker Mayfield was #1 in the league at throwing the slant...which means that Freddie Kitchens offense was quite predictable. 

 

However, this doesnt excuse Mayfield from many other bad plays that were based on boneheaded decisions. Not at all. Dude had a bad season, however, not as bad as folks are diligently trying to make it. 

 

C'mon, lets not play this game that "The scheme is an excuse for bad QB play" while not saying that the scheme itself was in fact...BAD. The scheme and coaching was terrible. 

Lets be critical, not dishonest. 

Im going to dismiss you and this conversation for the fact that it's clear that I'm talking to someone who cant absorb what is being relayed to them. 

 

Have the last word bro. As many as you'd like.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

This is really all it's about. Selling this narrative. 

So many Jets fans are so insecure, it makes the rest of us look bad. 

Bro, Sam Darnold is a bottom 10 QB with potential to be better. 

He hasnt shown to be a better talent Baker Mayfield. 

I know you guys feel like you need this, but the bottomline is that the Browns have surpassed this franchise in terms of position and rebuild. 

 

 

 

It's difficult to discuss things when facts are merged with opinions and twisted to suit a narrative that is struggling to stay above water.  The overall math puts Darnold outside the Top 20 in many statistical categories over the entire season. I get it, Baker was taken #1....so he must be better even though he regressed in an offense that added OBJ and elevated his first-year OC to HC.  Baker had a better rookie year.....so he must be better despite his trajectory being downward in Year 2 and Sam Darnold's being upward (even with the offensive issues of the Jets that we all know about.)  I know we're supposed to ignore the 6-2 record over the Final 8 games because those 8 NFL teams don't really matter and they weren't very good teams.  But we're supposed to ignore the opponents in the first half of the year and one of the NFL's toughest schedules because 1-7 is a very nice, shiny object that Jets haters cling to (even despite the fact Sam Darnold didn't play in 3 of those losses and he personally has a winning record this year).

And, we can say Sam is Bottom 10 QB despite the fact that he was a Top 10 QB over an entire half of the NFL season....and the most recent half.

Quote

In Weeks 10-17, Darnold amassed 1,947 yards, 13 TD and 4 INT. His 93.3 passer rating was 10th in the NFL in that span.  While opponents do matter this still translates to a 3, 894 yard, 26 TD, 8 INT season over 16 games.

All of this because.....well, Jets, I guess, and you guys can't allow yourself to see the possibility that maybe the Jets actually got it right at the QB position for once.  And you know, you guys need to continue propelling the thesis that the Jets can't have nice things, that our history shows we always pick the WRONG guy and not the right one so there's no possible way Darnold was ever going to turn out better than someone taken ahead of him.

I respect your opinions and I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here, but we need a little more balance to some of these arguments I think.  And, the idea that "the Browns have surpassed (the Jets) in terms of position and rebuild," is kinda mind-boggling.  This was a team that won about what, 2 or 3 games over a 2-3 year period, was consistently Drafting first or Top 5, and just fired BOTH its GM and Head Coach?  That team is in better position and rebuilding more effectively?  They don't even have a GM. lol

 

 

[Jets723]

11 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

It's difficult to discuss things when facts are merged with opinions and twisted to suit a narrative that is struggling to stay above water.  The overall math puts Darnold outside the Top 20 in many statistical categories over the entire season. I get it, Baker was taken #1....so he must be better even though he regressed in an offense that added OBJ and elevated his first-year OC to HC.  Baker had a better rookie year.....so he must be better despite his trajectory being downward in Year 2 and Sam Darnold's being upward (even with the offensive issues of the Jets that we all know about.)  I know we're supposed to ignore the 6-2 record over the Final 8 games because those 8 NFL teams don't really matter and they weren't very good teams.  But we're supposed to ignore the opponents in the first half of the year and one of the NFL's toughest schedules because 1-7 is a very nice, shiny object that Jets haters cling to (even despite the fact Sam Darnold didn't play in 3 of those losses and he personally has a winning record this year).

And, we can say Sam is Bottom 10 QB despite the fact that he was a Top 10 QB over an entire half of the NFL season....and the most recent half.

All of this because.....well, Jets, I guess, and you guys can't allow yourself to see the possibility that maybe the Jets actually got it right at the QB position for once.  And you know, you guys need to continue propelling the thesis that the Jets can't have nice things, that our history shows we always pick the WRONG guy and not the right one so there's no possible way Darnold was ever going to turn out better than someone taken ahead of him.

I respect your opinions and I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here, but we need a little more balance to some of these arguments I think.  And, the idea that "the Browns have surpassed (the Jets) in terms of position and rebuild," is kinda mind-boggling.  This was a team that won about what, 2 or 3 games over a 2-3 year period, was consistently Drafting first or Top 5, and just fired BOTH its GM and Head Coach?  That team is in better position and rebuilding more effectively?  They don't even have a GM. lol

 

 

Exactly.  I think we all agree that Darnold is a work in progress and he had certain things he needs to stop doing.  However the Baker narrative which blames Kitchens,ObJ, the GM and not Baker himself is ridiculous.  Baker took a big step back this year despite a lot of talent around him that’s just a fact.  I dislike Gase but I don’t blame him for all of Dam’s struggles either 

[jetstream23]

5 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Exactly.  I think we all agree that Darnold is a work in progress and he had certain things he needs to stop doing.  However the Baker narrative which blames Kitchebs,ObJ, the GM and not Baker himself is ridiculous.  Baker took a big step back this year despite a lot of talent around him that’s just a fact.  I dislike Gase but I don’t blame him for all of Dam’s struggles either 

It's just human nature.  You could insert Gase for Baker and blame everything around him, but to some degree the responsibility lies with the individual at the center of it, in a leadership spot...guys like HC's and QB's.  And, that's the real debate....what is on him vs. everything else that's outside his control.  Same thing with Darnold....is a bad game 70% his fault and 30% the OLine, playcalling, WRs, etc. or 20% him and 80% due to those other things.  I have no idea but I can absolutely say that it's not 0% / 100% in either direction.  Anybody who say that Baker or Darnold has a definitively better future than the other isn't being honest with themselves.

[Jets723]

Just now, jetstream23 said:

It's just human nature.  You could insert Gase for Baker and blame everything around him, but to some degree the responsibility lies with the individual at the center of it, in a leadership spot...guys like HC's and QB's.  And, that's the real debate....is on him vs. everything else that's outside his control.  Same thing with Darnold....is a bad game 70% his fault and 30% the OLine, playcalling, WRs, etc. or 20% him and 80% due to those other things.  I have no idea but I can absolutely say that it's not 0% / 100% in either direction.

Absolutely.  

[Villain The Foe]

22 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

It's difficult to discuss things when facts are merged with opinions and twisted to suit a narrative that is struggling to stay above water.  The overall math puts Darnold outside the Top 20 in many statistical categories over the entire season. I get it, Baker was taken #1....so he must be better even though he regressed in an offense that added OBJ and elevated his first-year OC to HC.  Baker had a better rookie year.....so he must be better despite his trajectory being downward in Year 2 and Sam Darnold's being upward (even with the offensive issues of the Jets that we all know about.)  I know we're supposed to ignore the 6-2 record over the Final 8 games because those 8 NFL teams don't really matter and they weren't very good teams.  But we're supposed to ignore the opponents in the first half of the year and one of the NFL's toughest schedules because 1-7 is a very nice, shiny object that Jets haters cling to (even despite the fact Sam Darnold didn't play in 3 of those losses and he personally has a winning record this year).

And, we can say Sam is Bottom 10 QB despite the fact that he was a Top 10 QB over an entire half of the NFL season....and the most recent half.

All of this because.....well, Jets, I guess, and you guys can't allow yourself to see the possibility that maybe the Jets actually got it right at the QB position for once.  And you know, you guys need to continue propelling the thesis that the Jets can't have nice things, that our history shows we always pick the WRONG guy and not the right one so there's no possible way Darnold was ever going to turn out better than someone taken ahead of him.

I respect your opinions and I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here, but we need a little more balance to some of these arguments I think.  And, the idea that "the Browns have surpassed (the Jets) in terms of position and rebuild," is kinda mind-boggling.  This was a team that won about what, 2 or 3 games over a 2-3 year period, was consistently Drafting first or Top 5, and just fired BOTH its GM and Head Coach?  That team is in better position and rebuilding more effectively?  They don't even have a GM. lol

 

 

Young Quarterbacks with multiple years under their belt usually are evaluated on a year to year basis. 

The first year Baker played well enough to be in the conversation with the top 10 QB's in the league. His 2nd season, he played awful enough to be in the conversation with the bottom 5. Over his short career Baker Mayfield is a bottom 15 QB. 

This same method ^^^^^^ is no different for Sam Darnold. I dont need to break down his yearly stats or his career stats given that we're all Jets fans and we already know them. However, im not going to take a portion of a season, just because it was the latter half, and make it out to be as if that's him. Why not? Because if the situation was reversed and he had a weak latter half, we'd be saying... "But you have to take the entire season into account". 

You made a statement that the Browns dont even have a GM, which is very true and very valid...for this reason. Baker Mayfield is produced what he's produced thus far while playing for the most dysfunctional organization in the NFL and it can rival others in any other sport. 

 

You also made a comment regarding their rebuild. I read that comment while at the same time knowing that over the past 2 seasons, the Browns have won more games, while beginning that rebuild from a more terrible place in terms of the wins that they had the 3 years prior. 

I dont remember, but the 3 years prior to both QB's being drafted, I think the browns had just 4 wins total over that timespan, and the Jets had 20. 

 

Since then, this Browns team has produced more total wins and has produced a massive swing in terms of total losses to wins swing in a season. Meanwhile, the Jets actually are averaging less over the past 2 seasons than they did before their rebuild. 

 

Folks can laugh all they want, but the bottomline is that it looks bad on the Jets, much more than it does the Browns not having a GM at the moment, because eventually they'll get that GM...but until the Jets start winning more games during their rebuild themselves, they'll always will be stuck in neutral. Is same the right QB? I think he's good enough. Do I think Baker is the right QB for the Browns? I think so. 

The REAL problem for both franchises has always been ownership. This is why it's so weird to me to see Jets fans attempt to clown the Browns when we're really no different.

[Villain The Foe]

27 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Exactly.  I think we all agree that Darnold is a work in progress and he had certain things he needs to stop doing.  However the Baker narrative which blames Kitchens,ObJ, the GM and not Baker himself is ridiculous.  Baker took a big step back this year despite a lot of talent around him that’s just a fact.  I dislike Gase but I don’t blame him for all of Dam’s struggles either 

Wait, so Baker isnt a "work in progress"? The same dude who's had 4 HC's and OC's in 2 years so obviously has less continuity in relation? 

 

lol. 

 

You're exposed bro. 

[Jets723]

5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wait, so Baker isnt a "work in progress"? The same dude who's had 4 HC's and OC's in 2 years so obviously has less continuity in relation? 

 

lol. 

 

You're exposed bro. 

When did I say he wasnt a work in progress?  I simply said he took a step backward.  Next time think before you type something that isn’t true ? 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Stefanski has been the OC for over 20 games, and you only discuss this game. It's because you really know nothing about him or that offense. 

 

And I was clear, that game.

You need to stop whining about me.  And defending the ball grabber from deserved criticism

Heres something to roll through.  No one left in Cleveland was one of the people who thought Baker was the number 1 QB or Player in the draft.  He got Hugh Doughlas fired, he picked Kitchens and got him along with hia GM fired.  Now hes on his 3rd HC in two seasons.  

Lets see how long he lasts

[jetstream23]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Young Quarterbacks with multiple years under their belt usually are evaluated on a year to year basis. 

The first year Baker played well enough to be in the conversation with the top 10 QB's in the league. His 2nd season, he played awful enough to be in the conversation with the bottom 5. Over his short career Baker Mayfield is a bottom 15 QB. 

This same method ^^^^^^ is no different for Sam Darnold. I dont need to break down his yearly stats or his career stats given that we're all Jets fans and we already know them. However, im not going to take a portion of a season, just because it was the latter half, and make it out to be as if that's him. Why not? Because if the situation was reversed and he had a weak latter half, we'd be saying... "But you have to take the entire season into account". 

You made a statement that the Browns dont even have a GM, which is very true and very valid...for this reason. Baker Mayfield is produced what he's produced thus far while playing for the most dysfunctional organization in the NFL and it can rival others in any other sport. 

 

You also made a comment regarding their rebuild. I read that comment while at the same time knowing that over the past 2 seasons, the Browns have won more games, while beginning that rebuild from a more terrible place in terms of the wins that they had the 3 years prior. 

I dont remember, but the 3 years prior to both QB's being drafted, I think the browns had just 4 wins total over that timespan, and the Jets had 20. 

 

Since then, this Browns team has produced more total wins and has produced a massive swing in terms of total losses to wins swing in a season. Meanwhile, the Jets actually are averaging less over the past 2 seasons than they did before their rebuild. 

 

Folks can laugh all they want, but the bottomline is that it looks bad on the Jets, much more than it does the Browns not having a GM at the moment, because eventually they'll get that GM...but until the Jets start winning more games during their rebuild themselves, they'll always will be stuck in neutral. Is same the right QB? I think he's good enough. Do I think Baker is the right QB for the Browns? I think so. 

The REAL problem for both franchises has always been ownership. This is why it's so weird to me to see Jets fans attempt to clown the Browns when we're really no different.

Good post.  We're really debating which is better here.....a Crapburger or a Crap Sandwich in terms of the recent history of these franchises?  The Jets and Browns have proven to be the models of dysfunction over the past several years and neither has yet shown it's ready to make the climb.  The Browns had a chance, had they followed up last year's significant improvement with another good year, but they went the opposite way and just completely rebooted the two most important non-player positions in the organization.  Who knows, the Jets may have to repeat a HC search soon as well.  But as for now, we're kinda splitting hairs and have too much supporting AND detracting information for/against both of these QBs in any discussion of who will be better.  We can have a hunch, a guess, etc. but nobody really knows for sure in the same way that we can fairly definitively say that Lamar Jackson is and will be a very successful NFL QB, but Josh Rosen will not.  Those two guys are the bookends of the scale....Mayfield, Darnold and Allen are in the middle with no definitive answer as to where they may end up yet.  JMHO.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

This is really all it's about. Selling this narrative. 

 

So many Jets fans are so insecure, it makes the rest of us look ba

If you believe this shlt, youre a sad, delusional fool

Unless you've done a 180 to defend the little man

[Villain The Foe]

20 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

When did I say he wasnt a work in progresss?  I simply said he took a step backward.  

Well, you never said that he was, while making the comment about passing blame. 
 

The fact of the matter is this. Was Kitchens and his coaching staff among the worst in the league? You would say "yes" to that, would you not? 

If so, then that means that there is blame for the result that occurred. 

 

That's not "passing blame", that's showing that a guy who never is mentioned as a "work in progress" as having to deal with the constant massive changes amongst key parts within the organization is being impacted as a person who is a work in progress. 

4 HC's, 4 OC and 2 GM's 's in 2 full seasons is literally unheard of. Quesition, Do you know of another situation similar to that? I dont. 

Quote

Next time think before you type something that isn’t true ? 

Next time, understand that I asked you a question. I never said that you said anything. 

Here's what I said again, since you want to be that guy. 

23 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wait, so Baker isnt a "work in progress"? The same dude who's had 4 HC's and OC's in 2 years so obviously has less continuity in relation? 

 

lol. 

 

You're exposed bro. 

See the question mark? 
 

How about answering it? 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

You're the one who wrote it Jet Nut. 

It's clear that this isnt about Baker and The Browns, it's about comparing to the Jets while making the talent that Darnold had as piss poor as possible in order to establish an excuse. 

 

It's insecurity. 

 

 

Yeah, its clear.

What gave it away when I stated facts or when I said I dont think he'll always struggle?

You need to calm your defensive ass down

[Dcat]

46 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

It's difficult to discuss things when facts are merged with opinions and twisted to suit a narrative that is struggling to stay above water.  The overall math puts Darnold outside the Top 20 in many statistical categories over the entire season. I get it, Baker was taken #1....so he must be better even though he regressed in an offense that added OBJ and elevated his first-year OC to HC.  Baker had a better rookie year.....so he must be better despite his trajectory being downward in Year 2 and Sam Darnold's being upward (even with the offensive issues of the Jets that we all know about.)  I know we're supposed to ignore the 6-2 record over the Final 8 games because those 8 NFL teams don't really matter and they weren't very good teams.  But we're supposed to ignore the opponents in the first half of the year and one of the NFL's toughest schedules because 1-7 is a very nice, shiny object that Jets haters cling to (even despite the fact Sam Darnold didn't play in 3 of those losses and he personally has a winning record this year).

And, we can say Sam is Bottom 10 QB despite the fact that he was a Top 10 QB over an entire half of the NFL season....and the most recent half.

All of this because.....well, Jets, I guess, and you guys can't allow yourself to see the possibility that maybe the Jets actually got it right at the QB position for once.  And you know, you guys need to continue propelling the thesis that the Jets can't have nice things, that our history shows we always pick the WRONG guy and not the right one so there's no possible way Darnold was ever going to turn out better than someone taken ahead of him.

I respect your opinions and I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here, but we need a little more balance to some of these arguments I think.  And, the idea that "the Browns have surpassed (the Jets) in terms of position and rebuild," is kinda mind-boggling.  This was a team that won about what, 2 or 3 games over a 2-3 year period, was consistently Drafting first or Top 5, and just fired BOTH its GM and Head Coach?  That team is in better position and rebuilding more effectively?  They don't even have a GM. lol

 

 

Oh I think the consensus here is Darnold over Mayfield. If I could go back in time to change that, I definitely would NOT. Darnold, IMO, has a better long term upside than Mayfield. Add to that Mayfields impulsive, near self-destructive personality and I'd choose Darnold every time over Mayfield in that draft. And frankly, there is no way in Hell that Mayfield should have regressed with all those weapons. Cant blame it all on the coaching, which is happening in this thread. Nonsense.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Was anything I said a lie? If it is then say so, if not then deal with it. 

He hasnt made a probowl since 2016. 

Yeah, pretty much al of it.

it about OBJs drops etc.  

I'll take his production here 

I wont blame him for drops and his health.

He wasnt injured that ridiculous

 

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Well, you never said that he was, while making the comment about passing blame. 
 

The fact of the matter is this. Was Kitchens and his coaching staff among the worst in the league? You would say "yes" to that, would you not? 

If so, then that means that there is blame for the result that occurred. 

 

That's not "passing blame", that's showing that a guy who never is mentioned as a "work in progress" as having to deal with the constant massive changes amongst key parts within the organization is being impacted as a person who is a work in progress. 

4 HC's, 4 OC and 2 GM's 's in 2 full seasons is literally unheard of. Quesition, Do you know of another situation similar to that? I dont. 

Next time, understand that you asked you a question. I never said that you said anything. 

Here's what I said again, since you want to be that guy. 

See the question mark? 
 

How about answering it? 

Actually I mentioned that he is a work in progress many times to you.  I even said in our past conversation that it could have just been a down year for Baker and he may very well bounce back next year.  The problem is that you don’t want to give him any blame.  You want to blame everyone else- Kitchens, the GM, OBJ, Landry, etc.  then you get mad when anyone points out that he simply had a down year.  By the way do you even talk anything Jet related? ? 

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Good post.  We're really debating which is better here.....a Crapburger or a Crap Sandwich in terms of the recent history of these franchises?  

Bro, you get it! Imagine for a second that Sam Darnold had a really good 1st year with the Jets, then went to crap the 2nd season. But during these 2 seasons Sam had to deal with 4 HC's, 4 OC's, and two GM's....but granted, he has some legit talent on the team, but the team itself is dysfunctional and rotten at the core. 

Wouldnt Jets fans be stating this valid fact? 

 

Both teams are in crappy situations. Sam has a slightly better foundation under him, but no talent around him and a less than medicore HC. Baker has top level talent on offense, but no stability within the franchise whatsoever. 

 

Quote

The Jets and Browns have proven to be the models of dysfunction over the past several years and neither has yet shown it's ready to make the climb.  The Browns had a chance, had they followed up last year's significant improvement with another good year, but they went the opposite way and just completely rebooted the two most important non-player positions in the organization.  Who knows, the Jets may have to repeat a HC search soon as well.  But as for now, we're kinda splitting hairs and have too much supporting AND detracting information for/against both of these QBs in any discussion of who will be better.  We can have a hunch, a guess, etc. but nobody really knows for sure in the same way that we can fairly definitively say that Lamar Jackson is and will be a very successful NFL QB, but Josh Rosen will not.  Those two guys are the bookends of the scale....Mayfield, Darnold and Allen are in the middle with no definitive answer as to where they may end up yet.  JMHO.

I appreciate you seeing what was actually being said. Great points. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im wrong on every front? lmao. 

Let me show you (for the second time today) how your perceptual and comprehension skills are poor. Look at the bolded above that you just said. 

Now look at what I just told you not too long ago. 

Im going to dismiss you and this conversation for the fact that it's clear that I'm talking to someone who cant absorb what is being relayed to them. 

 

Have the last word bro. As many as you'd like.

There isnt a single part of your crying to defend Baker thats right.

There isnt any part of this that shows you know a thing about what youre talking about anymore than your epic Glennon fail.

When someone who repeatidly proves how little they know about the game I really find it funny when you say stupid shlt like my perceptual comprehensions skill are poor.  That really is funny.  Especially thinking there is anything close to comprehension issues being involed here.  Its a simple case of the insecure making excuses for the little man

 

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Actually I mentioned that he is a work in progress many times to you.  I even said in our past conversation that it could have just been a down year for Baker and he may very well bounce back next year.  The problem is that you don’t want to give him any blame.  You want to blame everyone else- Kitchens, the GM, OBJ, Landry, etc.  then you get mad when anyone points out that he simply had a down year.  By the way do you even talk anything Jet related? ? 

No hes not, hes the bestest QB ever.  Dont you get that.  

And the lost point, rarely.  Unless its a Sam, negative remark

[Villain The Foe]

7 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Actually I mentioned that he is a work in progress many times to you.  I even said in our past conversation that it could have just been a down year for Baker and he may very well bounce back next year.  The problem is that you don’t want to give him any blame.  You want to blame everyone else- Kitchens, the GM, OBJ, Landry, etc.  then you get mad when anyone points out that he simply had a down year.

Then if you mentioned it many times in the past, then there should have been no problem in this specific situation to reiterate, especially when I didnt jump to conclusions, I simply asked a question. 

 

Quote

 By the way do you even talk anything Jet related? ? 

There's no need to. I've been a Jets fan for 25 years and things have been the exact same 95% of the time. 

I already know the answers to those questions.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im wrong on every front? lmao. 

Let me show you (for the second time today) how your perceptual and comprehension skills are poor. Look at the bolded above that you just said. 

Now look at what I just told you not too long ago. 

Im going to dismiss you and this conversation for the fact that it's clear that I'm talking to someone who cant absorb what is being relayed to them. 

 

Have the last word bro. As many as you'd like.

Wake up already.

 

[Jet Nut]

29 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wait, so Baker isnt a "work in progress"? The same dude who's had 4 HC's and OC's in 2 years so obviously has less continuity in relation? 

 

lol. 

 

You're exposed bro. 

4 HCs? LOL

In year one, he gets Doughlas fired, Williams takes over, makes not one change to the offense and that a feather in Bakers hat?

And also running the same offense under Kitchens as he did a year ago"

LOL, exposure is a interesting thing

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Actually I mentioned that he is a work in progress many times to you.  I even said in our past conversation that it could have just been a down year for Baker and he may very well bounce back next year.  The problem is that you don’t want to give him any blame.  You want to blame everyone else- Kitchens, the GM, OBJ, Landry, etc.  then you get mad when anyone points out that he simply had a down year.  By the way do you even talk anything Jet related? ? 

So did I.

Thats not good enough to those that lap up Bakers ass and balls.

[Villain The Foe]

Wait, here comes the emotion. ?

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

OBJ had more WR errors this season than any other WR in the league not named Michael Gallup of the Cowboys. 

A high percentage of INT's that baker threw, hit the hands of his receivers. Some were slightly behind or high, (accuracy issues, no doubt) but many were catchable passes. It's not like he was out there throwing pick 6's every game (Winston). Those are obviously not counting the passes that fell harmlessly to the ground...OBJ was notorious for dropping big passes what felt like atleast once per game. 

Odell Beckham Jr. was credited with 4 drops in 2019. 

Do you have a statistic for passes intercepted that hit the hands of receivers? 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Odell Beckham Jr. was credited with 4 drops in 2019. 

Do you have a statistic for passes intercepted that hit the hands of receivers? 

Beckham should have been credited with more than 4 drops. 

I watched the games, and seen them. I'll look or I'll see if I can find video of all of the INT's and count the amount INT's hit receivers hands. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wait, so Baker isnt a "work in progress"? The same dude who's had 4 HC's and OC's in 2 years so obviously has less continuity in relation? 

 

lol. 

 

You're exposed bro. 

Isn't that argument kind of disingenuous?  I get that you think Baker needed tough love and not to get the coach he asked for, but 4 HC's and OC's?  It's already a bunch, but he's only played for three.  They also kept Kitchens as HC because Baker played well under him in 2018.  When you promote the HC from OC, you can't really complain about the system changing.  Kitchens called the plays from halfway through 2018.  None of this is to say that he's not a work in progress, but c'mon.

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Beckham should have been credited with more than 4 drops. 

I watched the games, and seen them. I'll look or I'll see if I can find video of all of the INT's and count the amount INT's hit receivers hands. 

I saw the stat, but it was from October.  That back Hilliard let a couple bounce off of him and that is part of the reason they cut Callaway.  Still, he threw another 9 INTs in the last 6 games. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I saw the stat, but it was from October.  That back Hilliard let a couple bounce off of him and that is part of the reason they cut Callaway.  Still, he threw another 9 INTs in the last 6 games. 

Oh, so you do have an idea about this then. 

[CTM]

Overall, Darnold and Baker have both stunk so far. We'll learn a lot next year as year 3 is when a young QB needs to begin putting it together. Not sure why there is so much energy being spent on who stunk less but have fun.

[Losmeister]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

Overall, Darnold and Baker have both stunk so far. We'll learn a lot next year as year 3 is when a young QB needs to begin putting it together. Not sure why there is so much energy being spent on who stunk less but have fun.

IE- what is the EXACT temperature of TEPID?

[Villain The Foe]

30 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I saw the stat, but it was from October.  That back Hilliard let a couple bounce off of him and that is part of the reason they cut Callaway.  Still, he threw another 9 INTs in the last 6 games. 

7 of his 21 INT's hit the hands of his receiver. 

 

That's 33% 

[#27TheDominator]

14 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

7 of his 21 INT's hit the hands of his receiver. 

 

That's 33% 

Do you have the Sanchez stat?  Dropped interceptions?  

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Isn't that argument kind of disingenuous?  I get that you think Baker needed tough love and not to get the coach he asked for, but 4 HC's and OC's?  It's already a bunch, but he's only played for three. 

I wouldnt call it disingenuous at all. Think about it. Football isnt only about playing the actual games, but about everything that happens in between playing those games. The learning process.

This is Baker Mayfield's 2nd offseason as a professional. Unlike many other QB's who will be able to uses this current time to review their season and try to sharpen their skills with gained experience in order to get better at their play scheme, Baker only knows who his coach is. Not only does he have to go through this 2nd offseason not growing within the system he just finished playing in, he doesnt even know what the playbook is because he doesnt have an offensive coaching staff. The entire thing has been flipped on him for a 2nd offseason. That counts. He's not able to go to coaches and talk about weaknesses or things that he didnt like the year prior in the playbook in order to try and grow and develop. He has no clue what he's about to receive. 

 

Quote

They also kept Kitchens as HC because Baker played well under him in 2018.  When you promote the HC from OC, you can't really complain about the system changing.  Kitchens called the plays from halfway through 2018.  None of this is to say that he's not a work in progress, but c'mon.

Baker played well under Kitchens in 2018, but that 2018 season wasnt Kitchen's offense. The Browns kept the offense that Hue Jackson and Todd Haley began with. Kitchens literally said that he went to the players and said "What plays do you like or you think you'd be successful with" and the players picked. However the deal was that if they do so they had to be successful. Which worked out to some degree.

In 2019 that offense changed into what Kitchens/Monkin wanted to run. So just because Kitchens was promoted doesnt mean that he had the same offense. He didnt change the offense that was put in place in 2018, but did so afterwards for the 2019 season .

Baker completing his 2nd season heading into this 2020 off-season will now see him learning his 3rd Offensive playbook. 

Is this the first time this has ever happened? Probably not, but I wouldnt consider stating this fact disingenuous as if im trying to overly damage control or make it seem like this guy's situation was more tragic than what it actually was. This is the actual situation. 

He hasnt played for t Stefanski, but he surely has to take this offseason to learn everything in this system like he did last year instead of trying to get better within an already established system. Anyone would admit that such a situation generally isnt really conducive to when it comes to player development.