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Browns get their HC, Vikings former OC, Kevin Stefanski

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13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Do you have the Sanchez stat?  Dropped interceptions?  

I looked at all of the INT's and counted myself. 

Sanchez stat?

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I've heard plenty of criticism for the Stefanski hire because of the loss to the 49ers. Looking at this game it's clear to me that this wasnt a "Scheme" issue. The 49ers werent even blitzing and they were able to get constant pressure on the QB with 4 man rushes, which means that they have max coverage protect for the pass, which causes a QB to have to hold the ball longer looking for openings that are not as available if less players were in coverage. Im watching this Vikings offense get destroyed by a 4 man rush. At times I see the 49ers 4 man rush beat 6 linemen and a RB looking to pick up a rusher.

This looks like a case of "The 49ers squad is much better than the Vikings squad". And truth be told, they've done this to almost every opponent they played, after all this is why they went 13-3, was the #1 seed in the NFC, have two great pass rushers on the Dline and the others are also 1st round talent. 

I see a team that's simply better. 

 

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

7 of his 21 INT's hit the hands of his receiver. 

 

That's 33% 

So he had only 14?  

How many of those were poorly thrown balls?

How many tipped of every other NFL QBs receivers?

Thats the only was you can make it relevant.  

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4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Bro, you get it! Imagine for a second that Sam Darnold had a really good 1st year with the Jets, then went to crap the 2nd season. But during these 2 seasons Sam had to deal with 4 HC's, 4 OC's, and two GM's....but granted, he has some legit talent on the team, but the team itself is dysfunctional and rotten at the core. 

Wouldnt Jets fans be stating this valid fact? 

Both teams are in crappy situations. Sam has a slightly better foundation under him, but no talent around him and a less than medicore HC. Baker has top level talent on offense, but no stability within the franchise whatsoever. 
 

I appreciate you seeing what was actually being said. Great points. 

The interesting thing in terms of stability is that Darnold has played in 3 offenses in 3 years (USC, first season with Bates, second season under Gase). He hasn't had any continuity since he was going from sophomore to junior year at USC...when he was all of 19 years old.  I think Mayfield should have benefited from some continuity with Kitchens from Year 1 to Year 2.  After all, Kitchens was on nobody's radar as a HC candidate except in Cleveland where, apparently, the organization wanted stability and to keep Baker's development on track.  It turned into just the opposite.

I'm excited to see Sam get a second season in the same system and hopefully, a significantly upgraded supporting cast on offense.

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On 1/15/2020 at 4:21 PM, #27TheDominator said:

Odell Beckham Jr. was credited with 4 drops in 2019. 

Do you have a statistic for passes intercepted that hit the hands of receivers? 

Bakerpologists now doing math equations 

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On 1/16/2020 at 2:10 AM, jetstream23 said:

The interesting thing in terms of stability is that Darnold has played in 3 offenses in 3 years (USC, first season with Bates, second season under Gase). He hasn't had any continuity since he was going from sophomore to junior year at USC...when he was all of 19 years old.  I think Mayfield should have benefited from some continuity with Kitchens from Year 1 to Year 2.  After all, Kitchens was on nobody's radar as a HC candidate except in Cleveland where, apparently, the organization wanted stability and to keep Baker's development on track.  It turned into just the opposite.

I'm excited to see Sam get a second season in the same system and hopefully, a significantly upgraded supporting cast on offense.

If you're going to count college then that means that Baker has had 5 HC's and 5 OC's in 3 years if we count OU. 

 

He's had more coaching changes than years played. 

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8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Bakerpologists now doing math equations 

Says the guy afraid to put up career stats. 

Go watch a youtube video. 😂

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10 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

If you're going to count college then that means that Baker has had 5 HC's and 5 OC's in 3 years if we count OU. 

 

He's had more coaching changes than years played. 

Yeah!  No doubt.  And you would think that after getting all that coaching over the years he would have had a better season.  You just never know!  Two years with Kitchens didn't seem to help.

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Just now, jetstream23 said:

Yeah!  No doubt.  And you would think that after getting all that coaching over the years he would have had a better season.  You just never know!  Two years with Kitchens didn't seem to help.

Why would anyone think that having 5 HC/OC changes in 3 years would help anyone? 

You don't even believe that. 

Also, 2 years with kitchens dont provide context. In Kitchens first year he was both the RB coach for the first quarter of the season and then the OC who simply coordinated while never implementing a new system, then in his head coaching debut he installed a new offense. Kitchens held 3 position in 2 years while Baker was there. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Why would anyone think that having 5 HC/OC changes in 3 years would help anyone? 

You don't even believe that. 

Also, 2 years with kitchens dont provide context. In Kitchens first year he was both the RB coach for the first quarter of the season and then the OC who simply coordinated while never implementing a new system, then in his head coaching debut he installed a new offense. Kitchens held 3 position in 2 years while Baker was there. 

 

 

You're right!  What was I thinking?

I'm gonna throw Baker out there for Comeback Player of the Year candidate in 2020.  I mean, we know he's gonna kill it next year.  He's just too talented not to....and compared with the train wreck of a roster he had this year, his own hand-picked HC who turned out to be horrible, etc. I think there's no better candidate to go from horrible to fantastic next year.

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Browns just beefed up the coaching staff with Bill Callahan.   He is going to significantly improve that OL and running game, so Browns will be much improved next year.

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9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

You're right!  What was I thinking?

I'm gonna throw Baker out there for Comeback Player of the Year candidate in 2020.  I mean, we know he's gonna kill it next year.  He's just too talented not to....and compared with the train wreck of a roster he had this year, his own hand-picked HC who turned out to be horrible, etc. I think there's no better candidate to go from horrible to fantastic next year.

No need for sarcasm. 

It also shows your change when initially comparing Sam's coaching as being just as "unstable or inconsistent" over his last 3 years, yet when shown that over the same timespan...Baker's was even more inconsistent, you then try to call that instability "great coaching over the years".

We know damn well if I asked you "Would you rather have that Great coaching from Freddie Kitchens and Hue Jackson for Sam rather than the current Adam Gase" you'd quickly decline. 

Matter of fact, lets put it to the test. Lets see if Im wrong, or you're being dishonest in your sarcasm. 

If you could change the Jets coaching situation for Sam today, would you replace Gase with either Hue or Kitchens? 

Look, you can continue on with the sarcastic "2020 comeback POTY/he picked his own coach" narrative, but what you wont be able to do is show how Sam has had a better career than Baker thus far...though having a more stable situation and being considered the better QB by folks like you.

🤫

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10 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Says the guy afraid to put up career stats. 

Go watch a youtube video. 😂

Says the guy who won’t acknowledge Darnold had a better season with a way worse supporting cast and coach

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9 hours ago, Dinamite said:

Browns just beefed up the coaching staff with Bill Callahan.   He is going to significantly improve that OL and running game, so Browns will be much improved next year.

No they won’t they still have the angry midget at qb

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10 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

You're right!  What was I thinking?

I'm gonna throw Baker out there for Comeback Player of the Year candidate in 2020.  I mean, we know he's gonna kill it next year.  He's just too talented not to....and compared with the train wreck of a roster he had this year, his own hand-picked HC who turned out to be horrible, etc. I think there's no better candidate to go from horrible to fantastic next year.

I wonder if Baker still thinks Daniel Jones is a scrub?

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45 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Says the guy who won’t acknowledge Darnold had a better season with a way worse supporting cast and coach

Sam Darnold had a better season than Baker Mayfield, with a lesser supporting cast, but a much better coach. 
 

I can quote myself saying this numerous times in different threads. 

 

Question. If I quote myself saying that, then tag you in it, will you then post those stats as well as confirm that you lie quite often and unnecessarily? 

why you always lying noragami aragoto GIF

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12 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Why would anyone think that having 5 HC/OC changes in 3 years would help anyone? 

You don't even believe that. 

Also, 2 years with kitchens dont provide context. In Kitchens first year he was both the RB coach for the first quarter of the season and then the OC who simply coordinated while never implementing a new system, then in his head coaching debut he installed a new offense. Kitchens held 3 position in 2 years while Baker was there. 

 

 

He staged a ******* coup d'etat and you are bitching about coaching changes?  

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20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

He staged a ******* coup d'etat and you are bitching about coaching changes?  

Hey Dom. 

How you doing? 

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Hey Dom. 

How you doing? 

Pretty good.  I had a 4-day weekend, so today will suck.  Otherwise, A-OK.  You? 

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4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

No need for sarcasm. 

It also shows your change when initially comparing Sam's coaching as being just as "unstable or inconsistent" over his last 3 years, yet when shown that over the same timespan...Baker's was even more inconsistent, you then try to call that instability "great coaching over the years".

We know damn well if I asked you "Would you rather have that Great coaching from Freddie Kitchens and Hue Jackson for Sam rather than the current Adam Gase" you'd quickly decline. 

Matter of fact, lets put it to the test. Lets see if Im wrong, or you're being dishonest in your sarcasm. 

If you could change the Jets coaching situation for Sam today, would you replace Gase with either Hue or Kitchens? 

Look, you can continue on with the sarcastic "2020 comeback POTY/he picked his own coach" narrative, but what you wont be able to do is show how Sam has had a better career than Baker thus far...though having a more stable situation and being considered the better QB by folks like you.

🤫

You take things a little too seriously around here.  Yes, it was sarcasm so laugh it off in the manner in which the post was intended. Nobody knows which of these guys IS better and which will BE better 5 years from now.  They've both been in tough situations.  It's the offseason, neither guy is playing and the whole idea of debating Mayfield and Darnold right now is fruitless.

I'm putting you on my short list of posters not to joke with around here.  If you couldn't see the sarcasm in the beginning then you should have caught it in the middle and again at the end.  Raise that antenna a little higher.

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Na, I'll look for the article but that's been the biggest problem with Cleveland.
Granted, I agreed with the Kitchens firing. I was supportive of it when it happened, but when watching the games you knew this guy wasn't ready for the responsibility. 
I did have a problem with the Dorsey firing, but I heard that he didn't want to fire Dorsey, but change his complete control. Which from the inside, hiring Kitchens warrants such a response by ownership afterwards. However Dorsey didn't want that so they decided to part ways. 
If Haslam was even a mediocre Owner, he would get a pass on this because in a vacuum I understand the move...but man, add this along with his past decisions.
This guy is making a case on why he's worse than the Johnson's


Speculation from scouts who know Dorsey is a good talent evaluator but has burned a lot of bridges and is not trustworthy.

Greg Williams isn’t an angel either but snubbing him for Kitchens was weird.




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44 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Pretty good.  I had a 4-day weekend, so today will suck.  Otherwise, A-OK.  You? 

Im good brother. 

 

You know like I know that the Browns are a completely dysfunctional organization with a QB who was a hotshot in College but has proven NOTHING in the pros....while at the same time regressing in year 2. 

 

But I still have to keep the supportive narrative alive! 😉

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30 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

You take things a little too seriously around here.  Yes, it was sarcasm so laugh it off in the manner in which the post was intended. Nobody knows which of these guys IS better and which will BE better 5 years from now.  They've both been in tough situations.  It's the offseason, neither guy is playing and the whole idea of debating Mayfield and Darnold right now is fruitless.

I'm putting you on my short list of posters not to joke with around here.  If you couldn't see the sarcasm in the beginning then you should have caught it in the middle and again at the end.  Raise that antenna a little higher.

All good. It's hard to gauge feelings behind words when you're reading "words". There's alot of sarcasm that goes on, on all sides in this thread. Sometimes light hearted sarcasm can be lost in translation. My bad if I didnt pick up on that. :thumbup:

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19 minutes ago, Jetmech said:

 


Speculation from scouts who know Dorsey is a good talent evaluator but has burned a lot of bridges and is not trustworthy.

Greg Williams isn’t an angel either but snubbing him for Kitchens was weird.



 

 

I wanted the WIlliams/Kitchens tandem to stay the same. I was in full agreement with that given their immediate success. However, when it was clear that Williams was being let go and they wanted to retain Kitchens, I was supportive of it. 

 

Goes to show that just because you're good at one position, doesnt mean you're good enough to run the entire show. Kitchens was clearly not ready in hindsight. 

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34 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im good brother. 

 

You know like I know that the Browns are a completely dysfunctional organization with a QB who was a hotshot in College but has proven NOTHING in the pros....while at the same time regressing in year 2. 

 

But I still have to keep the supportive narrative alive! 😉

You want to pump that disfunction, but weren't you all in on Dorsey?  I get it now that they have parted ways, but you are pretty hard on the Kitchens hire for a Dorsey guy.

 

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

You want to pump that disfunction, but weren't you all in on Dorsey? 

That dysfunction I speak of is historical. I did like Dorsey...and still do. The fact that he turned that team around in terms of talent and wins and he's fired after making 1 bad HC hire was ridiculous. 

Was it waaaay left field? Absolutely. However, I also remember how waaaaay left field it was for him to fire not just Hue, but also Todd Haley and placed the "Bountygate" guy as the HC of the organization and a RB coach as the OC. 

Remember when folks were pointing the finger at that? Now today how many of us appreciate Williams as Jets fans and we hear nothing about Bountygate? 

Quote

I get it now that they have parted ways, but you are pretty hard on the Kitchens hire for a Dorsey guy. 

Im not hard on kitchens. It's not like im cursing the guy to hell, but the guy was a terrible HC. That's just what it was. I supported the hire at the time, but that was only after they made it clear that Williams would not retain the HC position. 

It was a bad decision by Dorsey, but as a GM the man has done much more good than bad. The fact that Haslam decided to part ways after that shows why their history has been the way it's been. 

I guess it seems like Im overly hard on Kitchens, but in reality it's the way the conversation in general has gone in the thread in regards to why Baker had such a sh*t sophomore season. 

I think Kitchens proved that with some more experience and the right staff around him that he could be a viable OC in this league. He's not head coach material at this point, at all. Dude did an horrendous job, those are just the facts. 

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On 1/15/2020 at 6:22 PM, Jet Nut said:

So he had only 14?  

How many of those were poorly thrown balls?

How many tipped of every other NFL QBs receivers?

Thats the only was you can make it relevant.  

Baker also had a bunch of picks dropped this year

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4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Sam Darnold had a better season than Baker Mayfield, with a lesser supporting cast, but a much better coach. 
 

I can quote myself saying this numerous times in different threads. 

 

Question. If I quote myself saying that, then tag you in it, will you then post those stats as well as confirm that you lie quite often and unnecessarily? 

why you always lying noragami aragoto GIF

These threads are gonna be fun next season after Baker gets benched for good

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

These threads are gonna be fun next season after Baker gets benched for good

Indeed it will, it that happens. The difference between you and me? I'll be here to face the music. 

You on the otherhand cant handle that and suddenly disappear.

Example? You're in literally every single browns/Mayfield thread, yet I've seen numerous threads regarding Quinnen Williams that you didnt make a comment in, yet was the guy comparing him to Aaron Darnold. I guess you dont show unless it's Baker or some opportunity to mention Mariota, like if anyone here cares about Mariota.

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The Browns are putting together a pretty good staff it seems.

Kevin Stefanski HC

George Patton -GM

Andrew Berry

Bill Callahan

Wade Phillips

Not bad a bad group so far, especially for a "dumpster fire where nobody will ever want to go"...

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5 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

The Browns are putting together a pretty good staff it seems.

Kevin Stefanski HC

George Patton -GM

Andrew Berry

Bill Callahan

Wade Phillips

Not bad a bad group so far, especially for a "dumpster fire where nobody will ever want to go"...

What will be Andrew Berry's position? I was thinking that he'd also be a GM candidate. I dont know anything on Patton. The little I've come across have been need nice words. 

I know Andrew Berry though. It'll be good IMO if the Browns can hire him again. 

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

What will be Andrew Berry's position? I was thinking that he'd also be a GM candidate. I dont know anything on Patton. The little I've come across have been need nice words. 

I know Andrew Berry though. It'll be good IMO if the Browns can hire him again. 

I didn't know a lot about Patton either,  but when I looked to see a story about the Phillips hiring , I came up with a site called Barking Hard. It's a Browns message board. Patton has a very good reputation league wide, and it was said "will bring respectability" back to the organization(?) I'd imagine there is a comfort level with him and Stefanski, with both having worked in Minnesota.

As far as Berry, he was initially thought to be a favorite for the GM position, like you said, but supposedly the Browns FO (DePodesta?) thinks very highly of him, and want him back as a liaison type between the scouting dept and the FO.

BTW I have no idea how reputable the site is, or who the writers are. Mary Kay Cabot and Terry Pluto would probably be the two most credible Browns beat writers. Later, when I have some time I'm going to check what they have to say about all of this.

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On 1/12/2020 at 12:30 PM, jetstream23 said:

He traded coaching Cousins for coaching Baker. Is that an upgrade or downgrade?

Downgrade...but the pay is much better ;)

 

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7 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

I didn't know a lot about Patton either,  but when I looked to see a story about the Phillips hiring , I came up with a site called Barking Hard. It's a Browns message board. Patton has a very good reputation league wide, and it was said "will bring respectability" back to the organization(?) I'd imagine there is a comfort level with him and Stefanski, with both having worked in Minnesota.

As far as Berry, he was initially thought to be a favorite for the GM position, like you said, but supposedly the Browns FO (DePodesta?) thinks very highly of him, and want him back as a liaison type between the scouting dept and the FO.

BTW I have no idea how reputable the site is, or who the writers are. Mary Kay Cabot and Terry Pluto would probably be the two most credible Browns beat writers. Later, when I have some time I'm going to check what they have to say about all of this.

I'll def check that out. 

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On 1/21/2020 at 1:03 PM, Villain The Foe said:

Indeed it will, it that happens. The difference between you and me? I'll be here to face the music. 

You on the otherhand cant handle that and suddenly disappear.

Example? You're in literally every single browns/Mayfield thread, yet I've seen numerous threads regarding Quinnen Williams that you didnt make a comment in, yet was the guy comparing him to Aaron Darnold. I guess you dont show unless it's Baker or some opportunity to mention Mariota, like if anyone here cares about Mariota.

I’ll defend Q I still like the draft pick

 

But Baker Mayfield fockin sucks dik

 

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