Ryan Tannehill's recent success is mostly due to....

[SAR I]

Option 3:  The Titans failed to develop Marcus Mariotta and Ryan Tannehill came in cold and started performing at a high level immediately.  So it wasn't the Titans affecting Tannehill's performance.  Therefore Adam Gase's tutelage at a young age in Miami is paying dividends today, validating that Adam is most definitely a quarterback whisperer.

SAR I

[isired]

He plays the whole season, he throws for 4400 yards,  35 tds and 9 int . Easy to look good when you do that.

Jameis Winston threw for 5100 yards, he must be the best!

I'm not knocking Tannehill, he took what the defense gave him. Against teams in the top half of pass defense, they let him throw less than 20 times, less than 200 yards. In the playoffs , less than 20 throws for under a hundred yards.

Against the teams in the bottom half vs the pass, he throws around 30 times or more for 300+ yards.

[CrazyCarl40]

Titans don’t make the playoffs without Tannehill. Game script hasn’t put the weight of the game on him yet in the playoffs. That will change next weekend. And Gase still sucks. 

[Gastineau Lives]

48 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

You're referring to yourself?

Very good.

[Gastineau Lives]

41 minutes ago, isired said:

Jameis Winston threw for 5100 yards, he must be the best!

I'm not knocking Tannehill, he took what the defense gave him. Against teams in the top half of pass defense, they let him throw less than 20 times, less than 200 yards. In the playoffs , less than 20 throws for under a hundred yards.

Against the teams in the bottom half vs the pass, he throws around 30 times or more for 300+ yards.

Yeah and Jameis Winston led the league in passer rating because he never turns the ball over.

Game flow and matchup dictates how often you throw. Not how much your coach trusts you to throw.

[docdhc]

This is a pretty even handed analysis.:

 

https
://www.sny.tv/jets/news/

Here's why Ryan Tannehill's recent success doesn't mean Adam Gase is a bad coach

Gase was Tannehill's coach in Miami for 24 games

By Ralph Vacchiano | 4:44PM

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Adam Gase

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Ralph Vacchiano | Facebook | Twitter | Archive

Ryan Tannehill, of all quarterbacks, secured a place in the AFC championship game on Saturday, and that has spawned a cottage industry bashing of his former coach, Adam Gase. After all, the theory goes, Tannehill finally became the quarterback everyone thought he could be as soon as Gase was no longer his coach.

It's a nice theory. And for anyone who hates Gase or thinks the Jets made a mistake by hiring him, it fits the narrative.

It just doesn't fit the facts.

Adam Gase didn't ruin Ryan Tannehill during their three years together in Miami. Injuries to Tannehill did that, for the most part, considering Tannehill played only 24 of a possible 48 games under Gase from 2016-18. Also, it's not like Joe Philbin brought out the best of Tannehill during their four years together, from 2012-15 either.

And while we're on the subject: Has Titans coach Mike Vrabel and his offensive coordinator, Arthur Smith, really transformed Tannehill? Is everyone that overwhelmed by his 7-for-14, 88-yard performance in Baltimore on Saturday or his 8-for-15, 72-yard showing in New England the week before? Yes, those were both very big wins in a very big spot and those do go on a quarterback's record.

But Derrick Henry's 377 rushing yards in those two games and the suffocating performances by the Titans defense were far bigger factors. Henry, not Tannehill, carried the Titans offense on his back.

Don't take anything away from Tannehill, though. The 31-year-old deserves his moment, and he can feel free to laugh all he wants this week, and perhaps again in two weeks at a podium in Miami, the site of Super Bowl LIV. But to say Tannehill's recent resurgence -- if that's what it can be called -- is a reflection on Gase … well, that's simplistic.

Here are the facts: Tannehill was a decent, but mediocre quarterback in his first four years in the NFL, before the Dolphins fired Philbin. And when Gase came in with a new offense in 2016, the Dolphins struggled out of the gate, going 1-4 despite some decent play from Tannehill. Then, as Tannehill got more comfortable, the Dolphins won six straight. Tannehill threw one interception in that span. He led the Dolphins out of a 1-4 hole to an 8-5 record. They were a playoff contender.

Then he partially tore his ACL.

Tannehill's season was over with the highest passer rating of his career (93.5). Gase, by the way, still managed to drag the Dolphins to the playoffs with Matt Moore as his quarterback - the first playoff berth for the Dolphins in eight years.

Tannehill missed all of 2017 after he re-tore his ACL that summer. When he returned in 2018 he actually got off to a good start, and the Dolphins were 3-0. But in Week 5 he suffered a "capsule injury" to his shoulder. He missed six games and couldn't throw a ball for weeks. He eventually returned with three strong games to start his comeback and had the Dolphins at 7-6 and on the brink of the playoffs.

But he was horrible after that, with one of the worst three-game stretches of his career. The Dolphins went 0-3 and missed the playoffs, Gase was fired, and Tannehill was traded two months later.

His time in Miami was a roller coaster, not a disaster. And is it really that hard to see how much those injuries hurt? When Gase had him in the lineup, a lot of good things happened until that final stretch. Most of the time, Gase simply didn't have him in the lineup. After that first season, he definitely never had him at 100 percent.

And Tannehill didn't have much help around him. Miami's defenses were terrible. He did have help from running back Jay Ajayi and the NFL's ninth ranked rushing attack in 2016, but in 2018 he had an aging Frank Gore and Kenyan Drakeand a rushing attack that ranked 30th. That final season in Miami, his leading receiver that year was Danny Amendola, who had 59 catches for 575 yards.

 

(Evan Habeeb)

 

In Tennessee, he's riding the No. 3 rushing offense in the league - a number that seems low considering Henry has topped 180 rushing yards in three straight games and has rushed for at least 149 in six of the last eight - and a defense that lately has been as tough as any in the NFL.

Yes, in Tennessee Tannehill has had some big games that many didn't see coming. He was 23-of-29, for 312 yards, with two touchdowns and an interception in his first start - a 23-20 win over the Chargers in Week 7. He went 21-of-27 for 391 yards, three touchdowns and an interception in a Week 14 at Oakland, too. 

Overall, though, he's been mostly just efficient. Nine of his 13 games include passer rating over 100. His rating is a stellar 117.5 overall. But Vrabel and Smith haven't exactly turned him into Drew Brees. In seven of his 13 starts, Tannehill has thrown less than 25 times. In seven of 13 starts he's thrown for fewer than 200 yards. That's not exactly a sign of a quick-strike, down-field passing game or a suddenly electric quarterback. 

And they've further cemented that strategy in the playoffs. Tannehill is now 15-of-29 for 160 yards, three touchdowns and an interception. That's two games, not one. He deserves all the credit in the world for going into New England and Baltimore and beating two of the best teams in the AFC. But let's not pretend like Tannehill carried the Titans to victory in those games by himself.

Tannehill is a game-manager. 

And that's fine. He might manage his way all the way to the Super Bowl. But that doesn't mean that Tannehill's success is a poor reflection on Gase. Maybe Tannehill's career will really take off from here. Maybe Gase won't be the coach the Jets think he is. Who knows what the future will hold?

But suddenly blaming Gase for holding Tannehill back is an argument that lacks any context. It's an easy one to make, but the two aren't nearly as linked as so many seem to think.

[isired]

Titans don’t make the playoffs without Tannehill. Game script hasn’t put the weight of the game on him yet in the playoffs. That will change next weekend. And Gase still sucks. 

Titans don’t make the playoffs without Tannehill. Game script hasn’t put the weight of the game on him yet in the playoffs. That will change next weekend. And Gase still sucks. 

I doubt anyone is debating that. Hes some exactly what they needed, with a decent enough D and the best run game in the league when Henry's in the game.

But it's not just the game script in the playoffs - the regular season went that way too - less attempts, less yards passing, etc. I wrote in the year-end defense ranking of their opponents. Other than LAC, where he had a very good game against the 5th ranked pass D, look at the stats circled in red (bad pass D) vs green (good pass D). He really padded those pass stats in 6 games vs. teams ranked 20-30 vs the pass.

Playoffs are similar to green games (less attempts, less yards).

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

You need a third choice

 Both

No I don't.  That's the easy way out.  The question is "most"....

 

[isired]

Yeah and Jameis Winston led the league in passer rating because he never turns the ball over.

Game flow and matchup dictates how often you throw. Not how much your coach trusts you to throw.

Yeah that's pretty much my point- you cited Tannehill's passing yards as evidence that hes a great passer, he got most of those yards agains bottom third pass Ds.

 

He's been what the Titans needed him to be, and done what they needed him to do. That's not a knock on him. But if you think he is now or will go on to be a top 10 passer in this league, I disagree.

 

[jetstream23]

This guy pretty much nailed it...

[Gastineau Lives]

5 minutes ago, isired said:

Yeah that's pretty much my point- you cited Tannehill's passing yards as evidence that hes a great passer, he got most of those yards agains bottom third pass Ds.

 

He's been what the Titans needed him to be, and done what they needed him to do. That's not a knock on him. But if you think he is now or will go on to be a top 10 passer in this league, I disagree.

 

I have no idea. My initial response was about these last two playoff games as proof that he's a game manager as if the regular season never happened. 

[Jets723]

34 minutes ago, isired said:

Yeah that's pretty much my point- you cited Tannehill's passing yards as evidence that hes a great passer, he got most of those yards agains bottom third pass Ds.

 

He's been what the Titans needed him to be, and done what they needed him to do. That's not a knock on him. But if you think he is now or will go on to be a top 10 passer in this league, I disagree.

 

Like you said he has done his job.  Sometimes that’s all you need to do. Manage the game well , make plays when needed, and don’t make mistakes.  He isn’t getting flashy numbers but he is doing the job right now 

[jgb]

It's not just about Tannehill having a better cast. Tannehill's former cast is also blowing up absent Gase. The conclusion is clear.

It is amazing how literally no evidence changes pre-held opinions anymore. Our society has gone full circle back to elevating feelings and dogma above facts.

The historians will have a lot to say about this era.

[Jet Nut]

16 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Interesting. 300 yards in a playoff game under Gase but 88 in a game under Vrabel last night, 72 in the playoff game last week?

Yeah but remember, Gase ruined him, hes better now.

 

[EM31]

Personally I think this is a bit of a false choice.  My own sense is that both are probably true.  For sure the running game and better team around him and that reason almost certainly helped more but it is not a slam dunk 99:1 choice IMO.  I suspect getting away from Gase has helped as well and possibly it has helped significantly.

That is pretty worrying for Jets fans.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah but remember, Gase ruined him, hes better now.

 

The Jets just won the most games they've won in a season in 4 years and had their first All Pro Since Darrelle Revis.  See what a great Head Coach can do?

 

That's how this works, right?

 

[Dcat]

19 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Too many Tannehill threads....but we do need a poll.

What is Tannehill's recent success MOST due to?

I voted for the better team around him being the main factor.  Not the absence of Gase.

But it's frustrating to have to choose one of these options, because I do not believe it is an all-or-nothing situation.  I think it is a combination of no-Gase and a better team as to why Tannehill has been successful.

Now put up a poll about Parker, Drake and/or Gesicki and you might get different results.  Drake and Parker, I believe were held back by Gase.  At least with Gesicki you can use the old he was a rookie under Gase stuff.

 

[Beerfish]

Funny how the narrative for the pro gasers 100% flip flopped once tannehill 'got good' in Tennessee.

It was all about 'How could gase do anything in miami with terrible QBs like tannehill!'

All of a sudden it is 'How could gase do anything in miami when his great franchise qb was hurt all the time in Miami!"

The narrative is that Tannehill was a cast off throw away after 3 years with Gase and is pretty good now.

After 4 years as a head coach and another in Chicago as an oc, wake me when this guy actually develops and makes any QB look good.

[jetstream23]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

I voted for the better team around him being the main factor.  Not the absence of Gase.

But it's frustratiing to have to choose one of these options, because I do not believe it is an all-or-nothing situation.  I think it is a combination of no-Gase and a better team as to why Tannehill has been successful.

No put up a poll about Parker, Drake and/or Gesicki and you might get different results.  Drake AND Parker, I believe were held back by Gase.  At least with Gesicki you can use the old he was a rookie under Gase stuff.

 

Of course it's not all or nothing.  A third option saying "Both" would get 97% of the votes and that's no fun.  Make people choose....It's like giving my kids a choice, "Do you want to see a movie today or go play at the park?"  They'd always say, "I want to do both."  Well, life is full of tough choices.

Good points on Parker, Drake, etc.  The difference with Parker I think is that Miami was often trailing and had to pass.  He benefited.  Drake didn't do well in Miami but with the RPO, Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury he looks like a much better player.  Next year will really give us more data and ammo to have a discussion about the roles of Gase, Parker, Drake, etc. in new environments with new players and coaches around them.  It's just a little too limited right now.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, EM31 said:

Personally I think this is a bit of a false choice.  My own sense is that both are probably true.  For sure the running game and better team around him and that reason almost certainly helped more but it is not a slam dunk 99:1 choice IMO.  I suspect getting away from Gase has helped as well and possibly it has helped significantly.

That is pretty worrying for Jets fans.

I agree about both.  And deciding which one is "most" the reason is pointless, IMO @jetstream23.

Now if we redirect to Drake, Parker, Gesicki........   and just whose fault their collective unproductiveness was under Gase and how it is polar opposite for each of them now, do we get the same results?   Coincidence?  Ha.  

[Losmeister]

Tannehill became the first quarterback since Terry Bradshaw in 1974 to win two playoff games in the same postseason while failing to throw for 100 yards in either victory.

[SR24]

That team is built so well and they've had some solid drafts recently 

[bla bla bla]

This is a bit of a stretch but there are ways that Tannehill is being used in Tennessee that mimic what Gase did in Miami. If Tannehill doesn't miss a year and a half in the middle of his time with Gase he probably would have looked much better earlier.

Trying to see the glass as half full here haha

[Losmeister]

6 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

This is a bit of a stretch but there are ways that Tannehill is being used in Tennessee that mimic what Gase did in Miami. If Tannehill doesn't miss a year and a half in the middle of his time with Gase he probably would have looked much better earlier.

Trying to see the glass as half full here haha

Also, Vinny Testeverde had 2 great seasons amidts a career of  bad to MEH

[Philc1]

20 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

This guy pretty much nailed it...

Vachiano trying to suck up to the jets inept management what else is new

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

Also, Vinny Testeverde had 2 great seasons amidts a career of  bad to MEH

And Vinny’s best season in 1998 he had a great coach in Bill Parcells

 

coaching matters