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If only Goodell had balls like this....

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22 minutes ago, isired said:

Every team had players on steroids.

 

And I know there are other forms of cheating, but this was egregious. You watch the videos with the ball flying out of the park after the loud bangs and you know it played a big part in getting those rings. The Astros championships are waaaaay more tarnished than even the Pats*.

 

The cheats* knew what the play call was going to be on both offense and defense and they deflated footballs that the cheats* used (each team uses there own set of footballs - a rule change lobbied for by Belicheat and Cindy) and messed with the communication to the QB for opponents and didn't cut off theirs.

I'd say this was as bad or worse than knowing when off speed pitches are called. Although it's a huge advantage for the batter to be able to sit on fastballs or off speed pitches.

Cheating ruins the integrity of the game and the punishment should start with stripping teams of fake titles. Money, even 5 million, doesn't matter to billionaire owners. Hell, they probably made more than that in merchandise sales as a result of the fake championship.

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28 minutes ago, talonmm said:

Do you feel the strong ruling from Major League Baseball puts pressure on the NFL and Goodell to issue a strong punishment?

Also, I would think the other other NFL owners are applying pressure to Goodell to come down hard on the Patriots.

It will look bad if MLB drops the hammer, and then the NFL does virtually nothing to a team that has been busted twice previously for cheating.

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https://www.foxnews.com/sports/astros-manager-gm-suspended-team-fined-for-cheating-during-2017-championship-season-reports

Astros fire AJ Hinch, Jeff Luhnow after MLB levies punishment for roles in sign-stealing

Ryan Gaydos

By Ryan Gaydos | Fox News

 

The Houston Astros fired manager A.J. Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow after Major League Baseball levied a one-year suspension on both men for their roles in the sign-stealing scandal, team owner Jim Crane announced Monday.

Crane made the announcement at a press conference a little more than an hour after MLB announced punishment for the team for stealing signs during the 2017 World Series-winning season.

"I felt with what came out in the report they both had responsibilities," Crane said. "Neither one of them started this but neither one of them did anything about it."

As part of the punishment, Houston also loses its first- and second-round draft picks for the 2020 and 2021 drafts and will be fined $5 million, according to The Athletic. Former Astros assistant general manager Brandon Taubman will be placed on baseball’s ineligible list.

 

Manager AJ Hinch #14 of the Houston Astros looks on from the dugout prior to Game 5 of the ALCS between the Houston Astros and the New York Yankees at Yankee Stadium on Friday, October 18, 2019 in the Bronx borough of New York City. (Photo by Alex Trautwig/MLB Photos via Getty Images)

Manager AJ Hinch #14 of the Houston Astros looks on from the dugout prior to Game 5 of the ALCS between the Houston Astros and the New York Yankees at Yankee Stadium on Friday, October 18, 2019 in the Bronx borough of New York City. (Photo by Alex Trautwig/MLB Photos via Getty Images)

“I find that the conduct of the Astros, and its senior baseball operations executives, merits significant discipline,” Commissioner Rob Manfred said as part of the ruling. “I base this finding on the fact that the club’s senior baseball operations executives were given express notice in September 2017 that I would hold them accountable for violations of our policies covering sign stealing, and those individuals took no action to ensure that the club’s players and staff complied with those policies during the 2017 postseason and the 2018 regular season.

“The conduct described herein has caused fans, players, executives at other MLB clubs, and members of the media to raise questions about the integrity of games in which the Astros participated. And while it is impossible to determine whether the conduct actually impacted the results on the field, the perception of some that it did causes significant harm to the game.”

Hinch and Luhnow are banned from performing any business on behalf of the Astros and will not be allowed in any Major, Minor or Spring Training facility.

 

Jeff Luhnow, general manager and president of baseball operations for the Houston Astros addresses the media as he introduces players acquired at the trade deadline at Minute Maid Park on August 02, 2019, in Houston, Texas. (Photo by Bob Levey/Getty Images)

Jeff Luhnow, general manager and president of baseball operations for the Houston Astros addresses the media as he introduces players acquired at the trade deadline at Minute Maid Park on August 02, 2019, in Houston, Texas. (Photo by Bob Levey/Getty Images)

Boston Red Sox manager Alex Cora, who was a bench coach for the Astros in 2017, could face discipline as well. But it will be determined once MLB finishes its investigation into the Red Sox for its own replay scandal during the 2018 season, The Athletic reported.

According to MLB.com, the ruling said the sign-stealing was mostly player-driven but Cora played a key role in setting it up.

Manfred cleared Crane of any wrongdoing

“Crane is extraordinarily troubled and upset by the conduct of members of his organization, fully supported my investigation and provided unfettered access to any and all information requested,” he said.

Houston came under intense scrutiny late last year when former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers and other unnamed sources, revealed to The Athletic that the team used a sophisticated system to steal signs given by an opposing team’s catcher to his pitcher.

 

Houston Astros manager AJ Hinch speaks during a news conference on Monday, Oct. 15, 2018.

Houston Astros manager AJ Hinch speaks during a news conference on Monday, Oct. 15, 2018. (AP)

Houston allegedly had a camera set up in centerfield which was hooked up to a monitor in the clubhouse, and when a sign for an off-speed pitch was given, a team employee would relay the message to a hitter with loud banging in the dugout.

Two sources told The Athletic that the sign-stealing extended into the postseason in 2017, but another denied it went on that long.

Houston won the World Series in 2017, defeating the Los Angeles Dodgers in seven games

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1 hour ago, Jets723 said:

Absolutely.  As bad as what the Astros did the Pats have done this many times and gotten caught multiple times with just a slap on the wrist.  So you are absolutely right!!

This is actually pretty bad for the Pats.  I'm sure the NFL os not going to want to be seen as not being strict enough in this current investigation.  On top of it, the Pats are no longer a hot ticket. 

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42 minutes ago, isired said:

Every team had players on steroids.

 

Damn right, every single team had player juicing.   There is no way to only penalize the teams that had player on steroids.   Plus, MLB capitalized on it, with the McGwire/ Sosa thing.

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Solid punishment. Draft picks would hurt if they weren’t such a well-drafting team as of recent. But still,  a small price to pay for a World Series ring. I bet most teams would give up a few mill and some picks for a ring. 

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MLB cares way more about the integrity of the game (at least when it comes to cheating) than any other sport.  The NFL, by comparison, is a joke.  

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The cheats* knew what the play call was going to be on both offense and defense and they deflated footballs that the cheats* used (each team uses there own set of footballs - a rule change lobbied for by Belicheat and Cindy) and messed with the communication to the QB for opponents and didn't cut off theirs. I'd say this was as bad or worse than knowing when off speed pitches are called. Although it's a huge advantage for the batter to be able to sit on fastballs or off speed pitches. Cheating ruins the integrity of the game and the punishment should start with stripping teams of fake titles. Money, even 5 million, doesn't matter to billionaire owners. Hell, they probably made more than that in merchandise sales as a result of the fake championship.

 

 

Difference is, while the Pat's videotaping signals has been proven, it hasn't been proven that they decoded those signs and used them correctly in a game. You don't have the smoking gun. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I believe they used the video/signs, and they gained advantage from them. But I don't think Goodell is going to admit that the most successful and dominant team of the last 20 years got there by cheating - that the last two decades of football are tarnished - unless they're forced to by indisputable evidence.

 

With the Astros, you have former Astros confirming it, and damning video with those blatant trash can "bang!" signals.

 

 

 

 

 

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They should’ve taken international money away from them also.  This penalty was a slap on the wrist.  Draft picks in baseball are bullsh*t.  

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Honestly they should make them vacate their championship. I would take that for a championship and plus this really isn't that much of a punishment in the short run since that roster is still so talented.

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39 minutes ago, isired said:

Exactly. By doing it blatantly (using video to steal signs and a clear audible sign to tell the batter) so that the batter knew with 100% certainty what pitch was coming, they influenced the outcome far more than anything that's ever been done.

Nothing attempted in the 50s is close. Nothing has been proven in a comparable era.
 

Except this happens all the time and there is no way of stopping it.  Giants were accused of having someon with binoculars eying signs and giving pitches through the CF scoreboard.  Yankees were sad to have someone in the stands with binoculars.  It's too easy and unstoppable 

Add in absolute certainty isn't really the case as is the idea that knowing the pitch isn't a big advantage to a lot of players, some don't want to know for that reason

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Except this happens all the time and there is no way of stopping it.  Giants were accused of having someon with binoculars eying signs and giving pitches through the CF scoreboard.  Yankees were sad to have someone in the stands with binoculars.  It's too easy and unstoppable 
Add in absolute certainty isn't really the case
Difference is accused vs proven.

And absolute certainty in the Astros case, after they spent time deciding the first inning or so.
knowing the pitch isn't a big advantage
Dude...

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19 minutes ago, isired said:


 

Difference is accused vs proven.

And absolute certainty in the Astros case, after they spent time deciding the first inning or so.
Dude...

Ok, we can go that route all day.  It's a known fact that teams steal signs and always have.

Other than the Yankees, no one cries that they were robbed. 

The idea that because they were caught, that they're the only ones and better yet won for that reason is funny

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Also devastating for the Mets cause you know Beltran would have been up to those shenanigans 

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1 minute ago, Welp said:

Also devastating for the Mets cause you know Beltran would have been up to those shenanigans 

No one accused them of doing it a few back.  Hardly devastating given he was interviewed as part of the investigation 

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No one accused them of doing it a few back.  Hardly devastating given he was interviewed as part of the investigation 

I was more trying to be light-hearted in that now the Mets won't be employing that strategy anymore for an advantage since Houston got caught and punished and Alex Cora will soon get punished as well.

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Ok, we can go that route all day.  It's a known fact that teams steal signs and always have.
Other than the Yankees, no one cries that they were robbed. 
The idea that because they were caught, that they're the only ones and better yet won for that reason is funny
I never said they were the only ones that did it. I know its complicated, I know they're not the only team that's tried to do it. But if you do it, and get caught beyond any doubt, you can't have a WS win.

Call me old school, but a runner on second trying to steal signs and signal back to the batter is gamesmanship (and easily thwarted by the opponent). A camera in CF sending the signs to a monitor in the dugout with a bunch of players sitting there watching until they decode, then alert the hitters, is different.

And having former teammates corroborate the cheating is also different, in terms of avoiding a title.

And of course other teams have complained. Google the Indians and the 2018 ALCS, for one.

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Goodell is a f*cking pathetic ball gargler ... he’s a POS who does not care about a fair playing field or punishing the cheats ... he just bends over for kraft and stretches his sphincter wide


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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10 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Yeah right

 

 

59010E21-FD00-405B-A4CB-50C08A60158A.jpeg

I knows these Chinese girls in Florida.. 

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Manfred undoubtedly considered all the mistakes the NFL has made in thenpast 15 years or so.

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Absolutely.  As bad as what the Astros did the Pats have done this many times and gotten caught multiple times with just a slap on the wrist.  So you are absolutely right!!
The pats probably have video evidence of almost every other team doing it so their wrist slap was more of a settlement not to further embarrass the league.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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The pats probably have video evidence of almost every other team doing it so their wrist slap was more of a settlement not to further embarrass the league.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app



Ever since d**shbag p*ssy goodell burned the spygate evidence “to protect the bfl shield” his been kraft’s little b*tch!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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16 hours ago, JiF said:

Meanwhile, the NFL is like, what cheating scandal?  Who did what?  When?  Nah

Big nothing burger guys

79D40CF4-3F70-48A3-BB98-54CFF9C504B7.jpeg.3988031688f9a1c457f9dd01e36d3a36.jpeg

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Goodell is a puppet of the owners. Manfred is too but he’s much savvier and stronger than Goodell 

 

 

Manfred knows eventually fans will stop watching if they know the sh t is rigged

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So did every hitter on the Astros know the signals for what pitches were coming or just some of the players?

How were those guys not actively participating in this scheme?  I get the penalties for those in charge but really, nothing for any player who padded his hitting own personal stats (and presumably his wallet) as a result of the cheating?

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15 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Light punishment... big deal... they lose 4 draft picks that are typically a huge crap shoot and most times 3-5 years away from playing professionally and ban a gm and coach for a year... and Lose 5 whole million dollars? a joke of a punishment. This is not harsh it is what was expected and a fake penalty. Hinch and Luhnow still get paid... so paid vacation and the team gets a slap on the wrist for 5 million, and lose a tiny bit of future capital... A harsh stand is vacating championships like Syracuse. That is a punishment. This is a joke.

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Yeah, this needed a second thread.  LOL

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5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, this needed a second thread.  LOL

Indeed it did. Biggest sports story of 2020.

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3 minutes ago, Jets1958 said:

Indeed it did. Biggest sports story of 2020.

Yeah, for the 1st week of 2020 😊

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